Super Frank Thread

[killer1257 3,282]

He continues to push for Willian's extension and start Batshuayi, that'll do it for me. 

Should he say in front of the Media that he wants Willian to leave the club? I don't know any Coach that would be that dumb

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[OneMoSalah 8,776]

As much as I have respect for FLs legacy as a player he has to get the top 4 or he will be out in my opinion. Mauricio Pochettino and Max Allegri are sitting there unemployed for fuck sake. He isnt invincible.

Also if Simeone came here it wouldnt be as bad as many expect. His record at Atletico is pretty much excellent and his development of younger players as well such as Koke, Saul, Gimenez, Oblak, Courtois, Rodri, Thomas among others as well as bringing the likes of Falcao, Griezmann, Turan, Godin, Filipe Luis, Costa etc onto better levels is a testament to the sort of manager he is. This season Atletico are maybe in a bit of limbo, they arent sure if he will stay or go but one or two seasons after what 8 at the club? Can hardly discredit what hes done. Theyve only lost 41 league games since the 2012/13 season. Plus we wouldnt be a soft touch with Simeone in charge either. Not saying it would happen think the club would prioritise Allegri or Pochettino ahead of him if they decided to make a change but he would be a viable option if they didnt want to come here.

Still think FL can maybe pull it back a bit with the bigger games but he has to take responsibility for underwhelmingly selection Batshuayi ahead of Giroud tonight and also seeming to have discarded Giroud as worthless since after the Super Cup match as well as other selection issues and tactical things. I am worried though. 

[DDA 9,690]

In the end of the day. Lampard started well, propelled by his Legendary status but as soon as things have gotten difficult... he hasn't cut the mustard. 

The next few weeks could really Mount pressure on him if he doesnt get a few wins under his belt. 

I love the guy.. but maybe it was as we expected, the job was too soon.

I hope he can last out until the summer and come into next season with a serious squad. That's when we can make a definite call on whether he is right for the job or not.

[Jase 43,479]

6 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Sarri had RLC is his best days and Hazard, who is the greatest Chelsea Player of all time. Lamps does have Mount and Willian as their replacements instead. Our squad sucks. Sarri had a way better Squad. One World class Player makes a huge difference. I see that all the time when I watch Barcelona. Take Messi out of the team and that Team is garbage apart from Griezmann. Even stats show that. People forget that we were Hazard FC.


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You are right but at the same time, the argument kinda falls flat when you see the likes of Sheffield United and Wolves up there. They have less quality than us but they are better coached, better drilled and looked more cohesive as a team. Every game involving us these days is a bad case of deja vu because the same rubbish keeps on happening and bad results just feel inevitable, even supposedly against the smaller teams!

[Special Juan 27,424]

This free hit is becoming no longer one, should be massively scrutinized, his selections in parts have been pathetic.

[killer1257 3,282]

You are right but at the same time, the argument kinda falls flat when you see the likes of Sheffield United and Wolves up there. They have less quality than us but they are better coached, better drilled and looked more cohesive as a team. Every game involving us these days is a bad case of deja vu because the same rubbish keeps on happening and bad results just feel inevitable, even supposedly against the smaller teams!

I can't really say anything about Sheffield, but Traore from Wolves is way better than Willian and Mount. Traore is the best dribbler in the League by far and stats show that. Take Traore out of the Team and their counter striking would not been as effective as it is now. Bale carried Spurs back then and when he was gone, it took then some years go get back. When Ronaldo left Real, Real was garbage at first. Now, with some new Signings they look ok. Lamps did not even get one signing to improve our team. In the Summer, our team got worse when our best Player left and our Second best got injured.

Also, if we had their Coach, we may concede less, but also score less goals also. People would go crazy then. Also, their Coach had way more time to implement his ideas and probably made Signings to play his way

Lamps makes mistakes. Don't get me wrong, but I don't see a coach that would get us Top 4 easily with that Squad. Keep in mind that Tammy, our best goalscorer, would be loaned out if Mou was our Coach. James would also be not in the squad


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[NikkiCFC 7,942]

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

He's not following the footsteps of Pep/Klopp when it comes to woeful seasons as he is doing WORSE.

Klopp finished 8th in first season. 

You should wait till end of the season to attack Frank. We are 4th and still in CL and FA cup. 

You did this exactly a year ago with Sarri and he finished 3rd and won EL. 

[Jase 43,479]

14 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I can't really say anything about Sheffield, but Traore from Wolves is way better than Willian and Mount. Traore is the best dribbler in the League by far and stats show that. Take Traore out of the Team and their counter striking would not been as effective as it is now. Bale carried Spurs back then and when he was gone, it took then some years go get back. When Ronaldo left Real, Real was garbage at first. Now, with some new Signings they look ok. Lamps did not even get one signing to improve our team. In the Summer, our team got worse when our best Player left and our Second best got injured.

Also, if we had their Coach, we may concede less, but also score less goals also. People would go crazy then. Also, their Coach had way more time to implement his ideas and probably made Signings to play his way

The point here isn't about one player being the difference maker. Even if you have that one star player, the team should still be well coached and well drilled. Do you seriously think we are well coached and well drilled right now? Sure, Chris Wilder and Nuno have been at Sheffield United and Wolves respectively long enough to implement their ideas but we are in February already, we are 8 months into Lampard's tenure and yet, we are seeing the same BS in pretty much every game now. We can't score goals and we are so easy to score against. Bad results feel inevitable, good results feel like a surprise! And of course, Lampard has also done "great" in causing all those muscle injuries to key players by overworking the players. The winter break, for example, was thought to be a good thing but we've come back with more injuries than before. 

21 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Lamps makes mistakes. Don't get me wrong, but I don't see a coach that would get us Top 4 easily with that Squad.

In a proper standard, good season, I'd be inclined to agree with you but the Premier League has been crap this season. With all the average-ness and inconsistency going around, competing for the Top 4 should be the target, getting into the Top 4 should be an objective and not something seen as a bonus if we do so. 

23 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Keep in mind that Tammy, our best goalscorer, would be loaned out if Mou was our Coach. James would also be not in the squad

Abraham is the best striker out of a bad bunch. 

I don't even know why you mentioned Mourinho, like we will ever hire him back again. And Lampard isn't the only manager around who would play young players and while he has integrated them into the squad, he admitted last week that they might have been loaned out again had there not been the transfer ban.

https://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/mount-tomori-would-likely-have-been-loaned-out-had-there-not/18d9b8qroq9o41w9dmnvsyl8yj

[killer1257 3,282]

He's not following the footsteps of Pep/Klopp when it comes to woeful seasons as he is doing WORSE.

Compare Man Citys Squad back then with our squad right now. Huge difference. They had Yaya Toure, Aguero, David Silva, Kompany etc. There were many articles that claimed Guardiola does not want to come to us because he needed 9 new players. Back then we had Hazard, Cesc and Costa. Everything in life is a Process and needs Time. If Pep would be our coach with the same results, you would say that he needs his Signings.

Our Board fucked many Things up due to the illegal activities they did, so Fifa banned us and Lamps could not replace Hazard. We do not even have our Second best Player in RLC who scored 10 goals last season with a limited amount of minutes. Mount is nowhere near RLCs Level. Also, our new no. 10 is Willian. From Hazard, we went to Willian. Look at how Hazard carried us last Season and we still barely made Top 4. This Team is not as good as you think it is.

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[Superblue 6,370]

16 minutes ago, Mana said:

My point is that you cannot compare. You only just strengthened my point here. Pep had the greatest team, while Lampard did not. That's why their stories and comparisons are incompatible.

If anything, Lampard should be compared to Ole, they are MORE compatible with each other. They are both work experience coaches.

Pep got his work experience on his first season with Barca too, but guess what? Barca planned it to a tee, a rookie coach with an experienced, class squad. 

If we are going to have Frank as coach, that's how it should be. Having him with a rookie/shite squad combined is a recipe for disaster. 

You can say, "Well that's the board's fault then!" Yes, it is their fault and there should be protests. Once I hear a protest has been organised, I'll make the effort to go down south of London to help the protest against the board. The board needs to fecking go.

But this is also 50% Lampard's fault, by signing that contract. It's not like he didn't know he had a massive uphill task on his shoulders. It's not like he didn't know we had the transfer ban. It's not like he didn't know the board is shite and can screw him. He signed it punching above his weight.

I'm sorry but he needs to go at the end of the season. He can come back when he made his work experience elsewhere. He's not following the footsteps of Pep/Klopp when it comes to woeful seasons as he is doing WORSE.

You cannot blame Lampard for taking the job one bit. For someone like him who is a legitimate legend of the club and has always maintained such a great relationship with the fans and staff, if he's offered the job he'd be a fool not to take it because that opportunity may never come about again. Management is so cut throat, all it would have taken is a bad season this year at Derby and his career could have been as good as done. 

At the very least now, even if this ends in tears, managing such a big club will increase his stock regardless to get another job at a smaller Prem club or back in the Championship. The risk was well worth it for Lampard.

If anybody is to blame for this it's the board. They have decided to make the move for Lampard, and they have also made the decisions over the last few years of changing managers with differing styles and philosophies whilst failing to adjust the squad accordingly (and it's not that we haven't spent money because we have, just very poorly). The squad we have is a shadow of what it once was.

However if there is one big positive in my opinion of this season, and I think the main reason they went for Lampard in what was always going to be a difficult year, is we now have half a dozen players aged 22 or under who will benefit hugely from this season and the development of playing regularly at the top level. All of them will have varying success in their careers, but at worst all have proven that they're good enough for a place in this Chelsea squad moving forward. This time last year we were looking down the barrel of relying on an ageing squad, two of our better younger players couldn't get a sniff at a game, and the rest were in loan purgatory. They are all now tied down (with the exception of Tammy) to long term contracts with a lot of games under their belts this season.

I firmly believe that if Sarri had stayed we would have struggled just as much for scoring goals, etc but still been relying on the likes of Luiz, Pedro and Giroud in our team. Take Hazard out and this squad has been allowed to become absolute bang average over the last couple of years.

This year with the circumstances was always likely to be a couple of steps back to move forward but I do still think an element of good groundwork has been laid for the future, but it is absolutely imperative that we get the right players in this summer to move forward with. I originally felt we wouldn't bring in more than 3 or 4 based on how the board have operated in the past, and that the rebuild would take two summers. However how early we've moved for Ziyech outside of the transfer window makes me hopeful that there will be more activity this summer than I expected. I personally think Lampard deserves a season with a better squad to truly assess him, however regardless of if he stays or goes in my opinion the younger members of the squad coming through has made the difficulties of this season worthwhile because the long term impact and gain should be far greater than the short term problems we have now.

 

[Tomo 21,733]

12 hours ago, Mana said:

This argument drove me insane back in early parts of the season when people were using this. Cannot compare, you just cannot. The easiest counterpunch to this argument is that Pep and Klopp actually have CVs while Frank is empty.

Pep came to Manchester City and Klopp came to Liverpool as professional coaches in the game. They didn't come in for work experience like Lampard.

The ironic thing is, last season we actually had a manager proven in building a title challenging side playing the football we're trying to build to and even then you constantly pulled out the "CV" line after every bad result.

[Tomo 21,733]

45 minutes ago, Mana said:

Klopp took over in the middle of the season 

The season only 16 games long these days?

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

Lampard is held in high esteem by Chelsea fans and rightly so. You only have to read it in posts fans are reluctant to slag him off they're holding back and I can understand that it almost feels disloyal to give a legend pelters. Not me though I'm old enough to have seen some terrible managers over the years and while Lampard isn't on that list he certainly isn't in the top bracket and personally I don't think he's got the minerals to be a top manager.

 The time has come to seperate Lampard the player and Lampard the manager because Lampard the manager looks pretty clueless and it's his legendary status that's keeping him in a job. Yes a transfer ban, injuries and last night's fiasco where the ref and all the var twats seemed to get collective blindness doesn't help but we are in freefall no question about it.

Lose against Spurs and badly against Bayern Munich and he's in real trouble and I know fans will say give him time but it's Chelsea we support and having a revolving door of managers hasn't exactly hindered us when it comes to silverware. 

[Tomo 21,733]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

...did we win the title, or even come close to winning the title or did I miss something?

Sarri was "proven" in building a side to challenge for the title, something we are trying to build to but even that wasn't enough evidence for you he could have in time built one here.

[Tomo 21,733]

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

16 games is a lot. You're talking as if it's a small number. That's like a 1/3 of the season. Also Klopp had little time to assess the squad (which people used to compare with Sarri last season).

He came in after 8 games, hence the "a season is 16 games" question. I could be wrong but I think they were actually 8th when he took over which by your very logic isn't progress as he took them from 8th to 8th.

[Tomo 21,733]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

One time.

Likewise with Klopp ,he only had one team built to go on. 

[Tomo 21,733]

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

Klopp had a CV, Lampard hasn't. Klopp, while finished 8th played better football that season than Lampard's (so far and this statement will most likely be true bar a miracle turn around).

Klopp reached the Europa League Final with that shite Liverpool squad as well. Stop with the comparisons.

What "CV" did Dortmund have to go on during Klopp's initial struggle?

What "CV" did Levy have to go on when Pochettino struggled initially? 

By your logic we should have just brought back Jose cause "he's got the CV innit".

And, like I said, last season we had a manager proven in constructing a title challenging side playing great football and surprise surprise that wasn't enough for you.

[Tomo 21,733]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

Dortmund were not a big club then so they can give Klopp that leadway.

Spuds (especially at that time) were not a big club either.

But we did bring Jose back?

...in Serie A. No, he wasn't good enough. He's supposed to be an experienced coach, and he was too busy trying to coach the uncoachable players. Only RLC he brought up, and we had to force his hand to play Emerson and CHO.

In Serie A under a man that makes Levy look a great backer of his managers against a powerhouse who poached his best player.

And he's been proven right with Emerson, he was first choice from March till December last calender year and done absolutely nothing (apart from a decent cross in Baku and a good half in a match we lost 4-0) to show he was even better than Marcos, let alone good enough to be a long term starter for Chelsea.