Super Frank Thread

[milka 3,390]

I`m Afraid tonight  

 

[Superblue 6,372]

27 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

He wasn't a risk at all it was actually seen as a quite astute appointment. When you think of who came before him David Webb was a stop gap and had only managed Southend previously. Ian Porterfield's previous managerial role was at Reading where he was sacked. Bobby Campbell was out of work before he became manager (he did a decent job under the circs) and before him that absolute prick John Hollins who was a player coach who then contrived to get us relegated despite having internationals like Dixon, Durie, Nevin, Dorigo etc.

When you look at what came before him I agree it would be hard to argue and my dad has said that some of the football during this period was abysmal, but his methods were very much 'continental' driven and probably ahead of their time, certainly within the confines of the English game. Such a drastic change from what may be considered the norm will be a risk initially and there was proof of this by how much we struggled in the first months. Chelsea had been in the First Division/Premier League for 3 or 4 years by this point so we had began to establish ourselves in the league. Many clubs in recent years have gone down a route from simply staying in the league to looking to evolve the club with a bigger name or different style of play to then see it backfire and they get relegated.

The club continued to persevere however because there was progress being made even if that wasn't reflected in the results. Hoddle gets a lot of respect and appreciation from older Chelsea fans who recognise the importance of his appointment in the overall growth and evolution of the club (something I believe within the media Gullit gets the more credit in this era when Hoddle laid the foundations for him and later Vialli to achieve success).

I would just like to think (and hope) that the appointment of Lampard will show a similar trend. I think the culture shift at the club to placing a lot of faith in younger, inexperienced players will take time and results/consistency will suffer initially but it will overall benefit the club in the long term, even beyond Lampard's tenure at the club.

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

look stop this negative bullshit.
we are on a learning curve, do you really understand what the situation is atm, we are work in progress.
first let's see if he can sort out the defence, all that's going on is not going to happen overnight, we are probably going to wait until next season and Frankie can bring in the players he want's.
atm we've just got to make do with what we've got.

Would there in principle be a situation this season where frank deserves criticism?

Let's say we lose 5-0 tonight. All the same problems from Sunday happen and we are just as naive as when we went 2-0 down.

Would that be dismissed as part of the learning curve? Or can we say ' you know what, for the players confidence right now it's important not to get hammered.'

I'm not saying we will get smashed, but whilst one half of the forum (including me) are strongly pessimistic. The other half can't seem to handle frank getting criticised. Even when managers should be.

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[Costa19 858]

2 hours ago, bigbluewillie said:

look stop this negative bullshit.

we are on a learning curve, do you really understand what the situation is atm, we are work in progress.

first let's see if he can sort out the defence, all that's going on is not going to happen overnight, we are probably going to wait until next season and Frankie can bring in the players he want's.

atm we've just got to make do with what we've got.

Yeah just what i wrote. Another humiliating loss (4-0, 5-0 etc) will show that he might be incapable of doing so. We have had this problems since the very start of the pre season. 
Look, i love Frank. I really want him to succeed here! But we cant be happy with getting steamrolled only because we are "learning" and playing with "high energy".. 

[NikkiCFC 8,285]

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

I've said this before. This is one of the reasons why I disliked Lampard coming here. Because if we are in the same shit this October when I finally judge his tactics, I know I'm going to get it from the Lampard-lovies.

Just like Mourinho and his loveboys back in 2015 when we were in the shit.

You also criticised heavily Conte and Sarri and wanted them out but they both overachieved with this team and had instant success. 

[Tomo 21,751]

36 minutes ago, Supermonkey92 said:

Would there in principle be a situation this season where frank deserves criticism?

Let's say we lose 5-0 tonight. All the same problems from Sunday happen and we are just as naive as when we went 2-0 down.

Would that be dismissed as part of the learning curve? Or can we say ' you know what, for the players confidence right now it's important not to get hammered.'

I'm not saying we will get smashed, but whilst one half of the forum (including me) are strongly pessimistic. The other half can't seem to handle frank getting criticised. Even when managers should be.

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I think this season should be as follows when assessing Frank's performance.

Top 4 or more = overachieving

Challenging for top 4 = par for the course

Finishing 6th with mid 60s points = below par but not a disaster given the circumstances.

Anything less = massive underachievement

I do think this narrative people are saying that it's okay if we finish 10th aslong as Mount and James play 40 games beyond ridiculous.

Firstly because it's subconsciously patronising them, even at this stage they are a lot better than happy clapping with the likes of Watford in mid table and secondly it's not like we are promoting 17/18 year olds without any senior expierence, "the academy 8" all have about 300 appearances between them and they're coming into a group of serial winners.

We should be looking at a top four challenge.

[NikkiCFC 8,285]

I'd prefer 7th over 5th and 6th because why would we want to play EL again? 

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

I'd prefer 7th over 5th and 6th because why would we want to play EL again? 

An additional way to qualify for the Champions League? 

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

If we finish 6th with no trophy frank hasn't failed. I don't even think he's underperformed.

Outside the top 6 he has flopped imo.


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[communicate 2,703]

19 hours ago, Robchels said:

That’s actually the main argument for starting the best players even if they are not 100% and then deal with the subs as needed.

start with the most senior players to avoid situations like that. Then add youngsters for minutes and for mixing things up.

no, nothing is a sure thing, but things are more likely to happen with the senior players since they already happened for them before. For ex, giroud is more likely to score at this level than a youngster who never scored at this level. Giroud would have been more likely to have scored that sitter. Tammy lowered his head and hit it. not great technique tbh. All these small decisions are likely to have influenced in the outcome and the final score line. 

No one wants a return of of the lack of youth development from mourinho era, but imo nobody forced frank to use so many youngsters in a single match, against a top club in their turf. Agree or disagree, that was a questionable decision, and one which did not quite work.

another thing I can add is that it is a very common tale with overly young sides: they have the impetus, the work rate, sometimes even play well and look good, but lack the finishing touch and make too many small mistakes that hinder the team. And they are usually more likely to choke under stress, of say, having to chase a result after conceding early. Again, for obvious reasons... I mean it should be obvious.

Playing both mount and tammy made sense. Giroud has no future with us, if there is a time to try Tammy, this is the year. If he can't do it, then next year we need a striker. 

Mount is a bit different, with the high pressing that Lamp want to do, Mount is better than Barkley. 

 

[Atomiswave 6,117]

FRank said several times already he has a certain vision in mind and that we must work super hard in training. He wants direct and fast footy, but he aint that stupid to play attack attack attack and utterly neglict the other aspects. He will figure something out, he will act if it aint working. This is a free hit season, yes its our own doing we are here now and the board will likely not learn but give it a chance.....anything above 6th and its a bonus, cuz this squad have serious flaws man ( thanks board ), hard work and belief with some tactical know-how will yield decent results.

[robsblubot 3,595]

30 minutes ago, communicate said:

Playing both mount and tammy made sense. Giroud has no future with us, if there is a time to try Tammy, this is the year. If he can't do it, then next year we need a striker. 

Mount is a bit different, with the high pressing that Lamp want to do, Mount is better than Barkley. 

 

Yeah that’s exactly where frank err and where I disagree with you and @Tomo

that match shouldn’t have been about the future! Play the senior to stabilize the team which will also help the younger players.

I’ve seen younger sides go into losing spirals quite easily. Starting Tammy over giroud in that game was a massive mistake and I do t even like giroud.

even the shape was poor... bring one of the ams back into cm as Oscar used to do. Make it compact. Sorry very naive strategy and formation. I hope it was a one-off tho.

[communicate 2,703]

10 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Yeah that’s exactly where frank err and where I disagree with you and @Tomo

that match shouldn’t have been about the future! Play the senior to stabilize the team which will also help the younger players.

I’ve seen younger sides go into losing spirals quite easily. Starting Tammy over giroud in that game was a massive mistake and I do t even like giroud.

even the shape was poor... bring one of the ams back into cm as Oscar used to do. Make it compact. Sorry very naive strategy and formation. I hope it was a one-off tho.

I won't argue much regarding whether should Giroud play or not. For me playing Giroud or Tammy is fine with me. 

Regarding Oscar, Lamp want to play high press. There is no way Mount will drop deep. Is it naive? Maybe, but it has been our strategy since pre season so it is not one off. I think right now the problem is we are quite disorganized in term of our pressing. We conceded 4 against team who I thought played poorly at both side of the ball. They were clinical though. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

18 minutes ago, communicate said:

I won't argue much regarding whether should Giroud play or not. For me playing Giroud or Tammy is fine with me. 

Regarding Oscar, Lamp want to play high press. There is no way Mount will drop deep. Is it naive? Maybe, but it has been our strategy since pre season so it is not one off. I think right now the problem is we are quite disorganized in term of our pressing. We conceded 4 against team who I thought played poorly at both side of the ball. They were clinical though. 

Folks who say they are not worried should be. Bad results and poor performances can really become a deterrent to youth development.

Ah regarding your second point, that’s worrying. I say that because I don’t think we have the players for the high press esp defense. The left side is ok with Emerson and Andreas, but the right is for a diff style.

[NikkiCFC 8,285]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

An additional way to qualify for the Champions League? 

Next summer we will spend more than ever no doubt after transfer ban. Plus with no European football anything less than title next season is not acceptable.