Mason Mount

[NikkiCFC 7,953]

On 24/05/2021 at 19:50, Simon1991 said:

 

@NikkiCFC can you please stop cherry picking stats to support your agenda? Through balls, really? Kovacic/Jorgi up there, i guess they're highly creative players then.

Just to add my grain of salt to this debate, which i am not sure why we're having in the first place but moving on.

To the people who don't rate Mount, i am just going to say this. Forget about our opinion of Mount as fan, forget about the POTY. How do you explain ALL his coaches rate him so much? Lampard, Tuchel, Southgate, all the pundits, undroppable in their eyes, why is that? Undroppable in the eyes of the people who know about this game.

Please go ahead and explain why that is.

 

Pretty much the same as Willian. Every manager and pundit liked him so much. But we know the truth.

When you think about it, they are like clone players. Now under Tuchel MM plays almost the same position as Willian. Both taking set pieces, very bad in the final 3rd, both attacking players praised for defensive work, work rate more than attacking abilities. They even have similar dribbling, Willian is faster and that is it. I see the same people who were bashing Willian for years now praise Mount to the heaven. It is weird and only one explanation really...

They are biased because he is academy, poster boy, Lampard successor... Willian last season for example for Chelsea had better season than MM this season when he is voted poty.

I did not saw any rival fans go crazy over Mount. But I saw many Chelsea, United fans go WOW over Foden, Grealish...

And Southgate is as clueless as Lampard tbh. Maddison for example this season has more goals and assists than Mount in around 1500 mins less, so why is he not on this 33 players list?

 

 

[Magic Lamps 11,655]

5 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Pretty much the same as Willian. Every manager and pundit liked him so much. But we know the truth.

When you think about it, they are like clone players. Now under Tuchel MM plays almost the same position as Willian. Both taking set pieces, very bad in the final 3rd, both attacking players praised for defensive work, work rate more than attacking abilities. They even have similar dribbling, Willian is faster and that is it. I see the same people who were bashing Willian for years now praise Mount to the heaven. It is weird and only one explanation really...

They are biased because he is academy, poster boy, Lampard successor... Willian last season for example for Chelsea had better season than MM this season when he is voted poty.

I did not saw any rival fans go crazy over Mount. But I saw many Chelsea, United fans go WOW over Foden, Grealish...

And Southgate is as clueless as Lampard tbh. Maddison for example this season has more goals and assists than Mount in around 1500 mins less, so why is he not on this 33 players list?

 

 

Mount at has consistently produced better numbers tho. Mimimum number of goals Mount has per season in the past 4 years is 8. Willian only beat that tally twice in his career. Willian played in weaker leagues like Ukraine and Russia, hardly produced better numbers. Mount on the other hand shot the Eredivisie to pieces. We bought Wilian when he already was a finished product. Mount still has time on his side.

[Mário César 975]

mount is hyped, just like reece james, for example

good squad player but no more than this.

to win titles we need a better players to start a game. its nice to have reece/mount to rotate in some games because its almost impossible to have the same quality in the field and in the bench. 

[Magic Lamps 11,655]

1 minute ago, Mana said:

...no..just no he hasn't.

This is what I mean by people bigging Mount SO much.

13 goals 10 assists is a very good return.

[Magic Lamps 11,655]

2 minutes ago, Mana said:

Actually he scored 9 in the league, don't know where you got 13 goals.

And you're talking as if he turned the club he was in to a powerhouse. They finished 6th.

No I didn't. I did nothing to infer anything about how his goals influenced Vitesse's league position.

Got the stats from transfermarkt

13 goals, 10 assists in 2900 mins. For a midfielder that is an impressive record. It does not really matter if those goals came in the league or in the cup as the level there is low anyway but still good for a then 19 or 20 y.o. coming to a new country.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/mason-mount/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/346483

[NikkiCFC 7,953]

17 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

13 goals 10 assists is a very good return.

Exactly his numbers in Chelsea in PL in 2 seasons. (with 2 goals being set pieces and 7 assists). So very similar to Willian.

Not sure why you guys even bring Vitesse to the table?

But ok, I will join to make it more fun.

Bertrand Traore had 17 goals season in Vitesse.

Lewis Baker 15 goals.

Piazon 11 goals.

Did not see them ever getting back to Chelsea and even getting a little chance not to mention starting spot from day one and 4000mins in debut season.

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by NikkiCFC

[Magic Lamps 11,655]

21 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Exactly his numbers in Chelsea in PL in 2 seasons. (with 2 goals being set pieces and 7 assists). So very similar to Willian.

Not sure why you guys even bring Vitesse to the table?

But ok, I will join to make it more fun.

Bertrand Traore had 17 goals season in Vitesse.

Lewis Baker 15 goals.

Piazon 11 goals.

Did not see them ever getting back to Chelsea and even getting a little chance not to mention starting spot from day one and 4000mins in debut season.

 

As I said before, when you produce prime Willian's numbers but at 19-22 you got potential to get better still. Bertrand Traore and Piazon were attackers and naturally should score more. Also overall Mounts performances were probably more accomplished than Piazons and Traores.

I never watched Lewis Baker play but Piazon and Traore got a few peaks and looked outof their depth mostly at Chelsea. Mount impressed immediately in his first few games at Chelsea. Life is not always fair but would you rather have Piazon or Traore instead of Mount here?

I am not even a Mount fanboy, I used to be a critic. I still think we should rely less on him and if we had a better set of attackers he would probably not play that much but I see his value now. To compare him to a fully matured Willian when he is 10 years younger is just not adequate. Willian had years and years to improve and never did. Mount already made more of a progress in 2 years here than Willian did in his entire Chelsea career.  Mount obviously is more of a workhorse than a creator himself and his end product could be better but you can see that it will get better. He gets into good positions consistently, he makes the right choices more and more often just his execution is still a bit off. Willian was held back by his incredible lack of game intelligence. Mount definitely has a sound understanding of the game. he is only held back by his lack of experience at the top level. That is why I can totally see him ending up as a Chelsea great. I really wish we would buy superior talents like Sancho instead but we won't, so we got to stick with what we have. Given this chance, I think Mount is the type of character to take it. He might not have made it here in another era but he is at the right place at the right time.

[Simon1991 225]

3 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Pretty much the same as Willian. Every manager and pundit liked him so much. But we know the truth.

When you think about it, they are like clone players. Now under Tuchel MM plays almost the same position as Willian. Both taking set pieces, very bad in the final 3rd, both attacking players praised for defensive work, work rate more than attacking abilities. They even have similar dribbling, Willian is faster and that is it. I see the same people who were bashing Willian for years now praise Mount to the heaven. It is weird and only one explanation really...

They are biased because he is academy, poster boy, Lampard successor... Willian last season for example for Chelsea had better season than MM this season when he is voted poty.

I did not saw any rival fans go crazy over Mount. But I saw many Chelsea, United fans go WOW over Foden, Grealish...

And Southgate is as clueless as Lampard tbh. Maddison for example this season has more goals and assists than Mount in around 1500 mins less, so why is he not on this 33 players list?

 

 

You really can't see how Mount is a different class from Willian now, can you?

Funny how everything just boils down to goals and assist with you, when there is so much more to this game than just that. What about the defence breaking pass before the assist, what about a progressive run that opened up some space for a teammate? Look i agree that he can be wasteful at times and still has aspects of his game to improve on, but that's exactly what he's been doing the last few years, and he does bring a lot to the table when he plays.

I don't know, I am just having a hard time reconciling with the fact some of our fans can't recognize quality when it's there for everyone to see. At least it's good to know that the people whose judgment actually matters can see it.

I imagine there's not much point in debating further, we just see too different things.

[Jype 6,398]

7 hours ago, Mana said:

Actually my mistake according to Transfermarkt he scored 8 league goals... Those 5 extra goals are from the Conference Play-off League which I have no idea what it is but from what I gathered, it's a pre-season tournament.

Not a pre-season tournament but rather an end of the season play-off for European spots (kind of like Championship promotions) for teams in places 4-7 so they were definitely meaningful games and part of the league season. Mount scored a hat-trick in the semi-final first leg, a goal in the semi-final return leg as well as a goal and an assist in the play-off final which Vitesse won to gain European football. For Vitesse he definitely showed up big time at the most important part of their season. 

Don't know why Transfermarkt show 8 goals for him, but his overall stats for the season according to multiple sources (Soccerway, WhoScored, Wikipedia etc.) are 9 goals and 8 assists in the regular season and 5 more goals and an assist in the European play-off, overall 14+9 in the league. Also worth noting that he took a while to get going (unsurprising for a 19-yo in his first season as a pro footballer) but after the turn of the year he got double digits in goals in less than half a season.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Jype

[DDA 9,690]

Mount has been fantastic this season... at times, he has been the driving force behind our fantastic form leading us into a CL final. 

It's not all about goals and assists you know. Although I would like to see him up these numbers. 

He has a huge influence on the team when playing on the pitch...and that's why he plays almost every game.

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

30 minutes ago, DDA said:

at times, he has been the a driving force behind our fantastic form leading us into a CL final. 

Fixed.

30 minutes ago, DDA said:

He has a huge influence on the team when playing on the pitch...and that's why he plays almost every game.

Judging by some of the results without Mount, one could also argue that we can perform well and win games without him. We have not reached the point (hopefully not ever) where we become useless without Mount on the pitch. 

[Nero 1,838]

 

[Jype 6,398]

Mason Mount, European Champion. Has a nice ring to it.

Created the winning goal today too. 

[Stats 7,056]

Provided match winning assist for the match winning goal. But he still will have these nonsense critics 😄

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Stats said:

Provided match winning assist for the match winning goal. But he still will have these nonsense critics 😄

A rare open play assist! cc @NikkiCFC

[NikkiCFC 7,953]

2 minutes ago, Jas said:

A rare open play assist! cc @NikkiCFC

Mount was amazing full first half! I said it in game thread. This is just a beginning! 

[robsblubot 3,507]

8 minutes ago, Stats said:

Provided match winning assist for the match winning goal. But he still will have these nonsense critics 😄

Brilliant player! Has everything needed in the modern game.

Plus scores and assists 😉

[OneMoSalah 8,778]

Mason Mount, 9 goals 7 assists for the season. For being aged 22, his second season in the PL, lets not beat around the bush if you like him or don't, is a good season either way. 

He also scored in a CL quarter final, a CL semi final and assisted the winning goal in the CL final. 

Maybe some of the critics will shut up now ??? What else do people want from him 😂?

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by OneMoSalah