N'Golo Kante

[Vybzkartel 284]

26 minutes ago, the wes said:

Andres Iniesta named N’golo Kante as the one player he would have liked to have played with for many years.

https://talksport.com/football/441054/barcelona-chelsea-ngolo-kante-andres-iniesta/

Game recognizes game. 

[Magic Lamps 11,469]

34 minutes ago, the wes said:

Andres Iniesta named N’golo Kante as the one player he would have liked to have played with for many years.

https://talksport.com/football/441054/barcelona-chelsea-ngolo-kante-andres-iniesta/

interesting, given their time at the top hardly overleapt and Iniesta had Busquets behind him who was not too shabby at what he did either. Anyway I think the problem with Kante is that while obviously not as good as a box-to-box player than as a DM IMO the tacitcs are the problem. Defensively he is not making as much of an impact also becasue of his positioning. When we get behind the ball it is still Jorginho central which imo is a waste bc Kante belongs in the middle when we dont have the ball. In the middle is where the most tackles and interceptions happen and that is where he is good at. 1on1 situation or doubling down on stationary player, stealing the ball. On the wing play is usually more vertical and thus he is not often enough near the ball to make a tackle. Obviously any of our other in-form mids would be better as a box-to-box player but you dont sit the best dm in the world on the bench or even sell him. We made this mistake before, selling a player just because he does not fit in the coach's system. But players often last longer than coaches. Did not sell Drogs and Lamps under Scolari or AVB either and they still had enough in them to win us some titles. 

[Vybzkartel 284]

26 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

interesting, given their time at the top hardly overleapt and Iniesta had Busquets behind him who was not too shabby at what he did either. Anyway I think the problem with Kante is that while obviously not as good as a box-to-box player than as a DM IMO the tacitcs are the problem. Defensively he is not making as much of an impact also becasue of his positioning. When we get behind the ball it is still Jorginho central which imo is a waste bc Kante belongs in the middle when we dont have the ball. In the middle is where the most tackles and interceptions happen and that is where he is good at. 1on1 situation or doubling down on stationary player, stealing the ball. On the wing play is usually more vertical and thus he is not often enough near the ball to make a tackle. Obviously any of our other in-form mids would be better as a box-to-box player but you dont sit the best dm in the world on the bench or even sell him. We made this mistake before, selling a player just because he does not fit in the coach's system. But players often last longer than coaches. Did not sell Drogs and Lamps under Scolari or AVB either and they still had enough in them to win us some titles. 

This notion of Kante playing centrally is a myth, under Conte, Kante played in a 2 and wasnt the seating mid it was Matic in Conte's first season then last year he tried to switch it around and have Kante sit deeper with Bakayoko further forward. it didnt really work and by the end of the season Kante was back in his role as the roaming DM. He is actually influencing our game more, his interceptions are allowing us to win the ball up higher, check Morata's goal against Burnley it came from Kante's interception. If we are going to play a high pressing game we need Kante playing there as he is one of the best at what he does. Because of Sarri's system we have a ot of the ball and Kante is now being asked to contribute more in attack something he is improving each week. Same thing happened under Conte, Kante has such a high football IQ he learns really quickly and by the end of the season he would have fully adapted to his new role. In each of his 2 seasons under Conte he developed and added a different dimension to his game and this year is no less. If you look it up the position his playing is actually closer to the one he played when he came over from France. Also at Leicester it was Drinkwater seating whilst Kante roamed in mid. I low key blame it on football racism (people thinking Kante is only a DM, he is so much more than that) had it been a player with a different skin tone doing what Kante does they would never be labelled just a DM. (Casemiro from Madrid is a DM, Kante on the other hand is not a DM he has so much more to his game)  Look at most of our pre assists and transitional play it comes through him. 

[El P. 1,354]

As I have always been saying - when deciding how much one player is really good, you should analyse him through some different setups.
You put Hazard in Mourinho pragmatic setup, he is world class. You put him in Contes' compact 3-4-3 setup and he is world class too. And now under Sarri, he is world class again.
 

[Vesper 27,417]

14 minutes ago, El P. said:

As I have always been saying - when deciding how much one player is really good, you should analyse him through some different setups.

You put Hazard in Mourinho pragmatic setup, he is world class. You put him in Contes' compact 3-4-3 setup and he is world class too. And now under Sarri, he is world class again.

Poslano sa mog SM-A310F koristeći Tapatalk
 

You honestly think he is putting in world class performances in his Sarriball role?

I love Kante, he is the best pure DMF destroyer in the world by miles, but his performances have been at times downright quotidian in his new position. 

Seems at times like we are using a half-stone sledgehammer to putt on the golf course at Tunbridge Wells.

[El P. 1,354]

20 hours ago, Vesper said:

You honestly think he is putting in world class performances in his Sarriball role?
I love Kante, he is the best pure DMF destroyer in the world by miles, but his performances have been at times downright quotidian in his new position. 
Seems at times like we are using a half-stone sledgehammer to putt on the golf course at Tunbridge Wells.

I am talking about Hazard and how he is WC at every setup. Unlike Kante.

[Vesper 27,417]

2 hours ago, El P. said:

I am talking about Hazard and how he is WC at every setup. Unlike Kante.

Poslano sa mog SM-A310F koristeći Tapatalk
 

Oh, sorry, I misread, lol

[Stats 6,988]

21 hours ago, El P. said:

As I have always been saying - when deciding how much one player is really good, you should analyse him through some different setups.
You put Hazard in Mourinho pragmatic setup, he is world class. You put him in Contes' compact 3-4-3 setup and he is world class too. And now under Sarri, he is world class again.
 

Totally agree and this is why I don't buy when people say it is a change in system and role and he is just doing what is asked, etc. When people describe him as a world class player, I expect to see more from him in the game and have more input in the game.

[manpe 10,857]

We would regret selling Kante. Managers don't last over 2-3 years here, players do. I expect Sarri to be sacked in that timeframe also, possibly earlier. The team will eventually implode like it always does. The next manager would find no real DMs in this squad or somebody half the payer Kante is if we sold him.

[El P. 1,354]

We can dig deeper in history. We can analyse past best midfield destructors with Kante. I am on purpose using term "destructive midfielders", not "defensive midfielders", because Xabi Alonso and Jorginho are too DMF-s, but they are not the Kante mold. I'll list some midfielders in Kantes' mold, and they even don't need to play in same position to be good comparison.

Makelele was close to being WC, IMO. But, for me, he had (almost) all qualities Kante has, but his defensive intelligence was out of this world and significantly better than Kantes'. Never he was at the wrong position. And that made difference.

Vieira was a beast, and was a lot better at holding on the ball and passing. Also, he had height and brute strength.

Roy Keane - almost same as Vieira.

Edgar Davids - destructor with abnormal dribbling skills and shot power. Also, that man could jump sky-high!

Essien - he is (was) for me Makelele level - at the edge of being WC level. His defensive capabilities were not awesome like Kantes', but he was one of the strongest players in the Europe which by itself improves his ball shielding ability. And had rocket-shot and could win headers.

Arturo Vidal (in his prime) - A lot like Essien, but even better I guess. Maybe a bit weaker, but more capable of offensive duties. WC for me.

Duty of those players were similar to Kantes - stop the opposition, and provide us something in attack. Not much, but something.

And there are others too. THOSE are world-class, in my opinion. Kante? I'll put him above Gennaro Gattuso, for example. Kante is very good player, and we should not sell him or anything. We should just accept him for what he is and accept that his shortcomings must be compensated too.

[Tomo 21,685]

27 minutes ago, manpe said:

We would regret selling Kante. Managers don't last over 2-3 years here, players do. I expect Sarri to be sacked in that timeframe also, possibly earlier. The team will eventually implode like it always does. The next manager would find no real DMs in this squad or somebody half the payer Kante is if we sold him.

Not that i would advocate selling Kante but there's away around all of that if Sarriball implodes, which in itself is not as definitive as you think, previous managers tenure's went South due to lack of ability as a coach (Big Phil and i say with a heavy heart RDM) destructive personality (Conte and Jose) or a bit of both (AVB), early days but it doesn't look like either will to apply to Sarri, we would more likely lose to him to an aggressive approach from a Barca or Bayern in my opinion.

If we go for managers with similar tactical ideas that would ease any transition and mean it would be unlikely our next manager would curse a Sarri sale.

[Vesper 27,417]

24 minutes ago, manpe said:

We would regret selling Kante. Managers don't last over 2-3 years here, players do. I expect Sarri to be sacked in that timeframe also, possibly earlier. The team will eventually implode like it always does. The next manager would find no real DMs in this squad or somebody half the payer Kante is if we sold him.

That is by far the main reason (unless he finally comes good in his new role) that I am still pretty hesitant to say sell him whilst we can get £135m plus.

If we don't upgrade the club (and it certainly doesn't look like we are, it looks like we have decided on a lock-down for now, we shall see what happens in January but I have no realistic hopes, even on striker) Sarri will deffo get the sacking before 3 years are up.

Most other managers use a DMF destroyer (or wish they had one!) Pep being a major exception.

[Tomo 21,685]

7 minutes ago, Vesper said:

That is by far the main reason (unless he finally comes good in his new role) that I am still pretty hesitant to say sell him whilst we can get £135m plus.

If we don't upgrade the club (and it certainly doesn't look like we are, it looks like we have decided on a lock-down for now, we shall see what happens in January but I have no realistic hopes, even on striker) Sarri will deffo get the sacking before 3 years are up.

What does that mean? You think Sarri won't get the players he wants? Early evidence suggests the opposite.

[Vesper 27,417]

5 minutes ago, Tomo said:

What does that mean? You think Sarri won't get the players he wants? Early evidence suggests the opposite.

Have you not seen what is happening? Kovavcic will be allowed to return to RM with no offer from us to buy, CAHILL was made captain so is going nowhere, and Alonso, Willian, Luiz and Cesc are all being offered extensions, none of thsoe are good enough, they all are either too old , or are simply not remotely WC, We show zero initiative to sell deadwood, Bakayoko is worh SHIT now, so I doubt we even sell, Donkeywater is paid triple what his wages should be (maybe 4 times), no one will give decent money in fees if they have to pay the fucker close to 20m quid in wages for just 3 years., and zero initiate to play younger players, and CHO and AC will probably walk. I also see no striker coming in until summer, if at all. Hazard has us by the jacobs (if you are a boy) and by the fitta (if you are a girl). If he refuses to renew, we either sell him at a 100 million or so quid loss from true value, OR we just let him walk on a free in 19 or so months.

So much other bad things building up too.

You said Sarri gets the players he wants. Sarri got one player, Jorginho, who Napoli deemed surplus goods due to Ancelotti playing a different system. ALL his other wants were all fails. Like 7 or 8. He had nothing to do with Kepa. He said so himself.

We shall see what happens but bad bad omens are everywhere. People are just have normalcy bias because we haven't lost a league game yet.

[Tomo 21,685]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

Have you not seen what is happening? Kovavcic will be allowed to return to RM with no offer from us to buy, CAHILL was made captain so is going nowhere, and Alonso, Willian, Luiz and Cesc are all being offered extensions, none of thsoe are good enough, they all are either too old , or are simply not remotely WC, We show zero initiative to sell deadwood, Bakayoko is worh SHIT now, so I doubt we even sell, Donkeywater is paid triple what his wages should be (maybe 4 times), no one will give decent money in fees if they have to pay the fucker close to 20m quid in wages for just 3 years., and zero initiate to play younger players, and CHO and AC will probably walk. I also see no striker coming in until summer, if at all. Hazard has us by the jacobs (if you are a boy) and by the fitta (if you are a girl). If he refuses to renew, we either sell him at a 100 million or so quid loss from true value, OR we just let him walk on a free in 19 or so months.

So much other bad things building up too.

You said Sarri gets the players he wants. Sarri got one player, Jorginho, who Napoli deemed surplus goods due to Ancelotti playing a different system. ALL his other wants were all fails. Like 7 or 8. He had nothing to do with Kepa. He said so himself.

We shall see what happens but bad bad omens are everywhere. People are just have normalcy bias because we haven't lost a league game yet.

Kova rumours are just that until someone reputable says otherwise. And Kepa counts,Sarri wanted him for Napoli and we got him for a record breaking fee instead of sponging for Jack Butland. It could go all wrong on this score but so far Sarri has been backed with two very important components needed for his football.

[Vesper 27,417]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Kova rumours are just that until someone reputable says otherwise. And Kepa counts,Sarri wanted him for Napoli and we got him for a record breaking fee instead of sponging for Jack Butland. It could go all wrong on this score but so far Sarri has been backed with two very important components needed for his football.

We are in the process of locking in sub-standard players for years. There is no way to put a happy face on that.

I will recant ALL of this when we have signed a great CF, bought Kovacic on per (or an acceptable replacement, (of which I have listed every single one in a previous post), bought a WC CB, and also a WC RW. That is me being generous as fuck, as I didn't even touch upon other weaknesses at all.

There is simply zero chance we thrive over the next 3 years with Morata, Luiz, no true great CMF (if Kova leaves), and Willian as starters. NONE

[mccg 1,528]

The Kanté conundrum: Sarri must solve his biggest dilemma

https://www.footballwhispers.com/blog/kante-conundrum-sarri-dilemma?utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=news-now

[Dazzy_Vance 454]

7 hours ago, mccg said:

The Kanté conundrum: Sarri must solve his biggest dilemma

https://www.footballwhispers.com/blog/kante-conundrum-sarri-dilemma?utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=news-now

The elephant in the room.