N'Golo Kante

[!Hazard! 3,394]

9 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

And defensively?

That midfield would not be running back to goal, so it could be suicidal away from home. Might get away with that at home if we take our chances.

The main takeaway from recent weeks is that Kante shouldn't be furthest one forward at all regardless of his "energy".

I don't know mate, I think you might be underestimating Kovacic's defensive abilities. If we was playing 4-2-3-1, I'd be more than happy to play Jorgy-Kova pivot for example. There is still so much to see from him and I feel that to his standards his performances have been mediocre thus far. If he hits that top gear he'll be unstoppable, the complete player excelling both offensively and defensively.

And yeah, I agree with you last point. If Kante ends up starting against teams like West Ham from now on Sarri has to make sure he's not the furthest one forward.

[LAM09 6,572]

I don't know mate, I think you might be underestimating Kovacic's defensive abilities. If we was playing 4-2-3-1, I'd be more than happy to play Jorgy-Kova pivot for example. There is still so much to see from him and I feel that to his standards his performances have been mediocre thus far. If he hits that top gear he'll be unstoppable, the complete player excelling both offensively and defensively.
And yeah, I agree with you last point. If Kante ends up starting against teams like West Ham from now on Sarri has to make sure he's not the furthest one forward.

I just don't think he has it in him to excel on both sides of the field. However, I agree with the sentiment that he's far from hit his stride thus far.

[Vesper 27,417]

On 26/09/2018 at 4:32 PM, !Hazard! said:

Yes, that would indeed mean Kante not starting. He's obviously incredibly important member of the squad but that doesn't mean he has to start every game against lesser sides in the league. Barkley-Jorginho-Kovacic would offer more going forward.

The Kante situ (after Hazard and his refusal to renew, plus our HORRID striker situ,and also CB (as long as Luiz is rammed down our throats), RW, and LB) is a huge issue at MANY levels.

Sarriball cannot have a pure DMF destroyer role, it destroys the system ( see this  https://theprideoflondon.com/2018/09/24/chelsea-sarrismo-ngolo-kante-midfield/ ), so we have effectively removed the world's best player at that role. The system will always win out as long as Sarri is the manager. The only other top 15 team in world that would have trouble integrating Kante would be Shitty,as Pep also employs a DH DMF as the deepest MF'er (the ageing and soon to be replaced Fernandinho,I am sure they go for Neves from Wolves, he is by far the best option other than Busquets, who is too old and will never leave Barca until he goes cashes in in the USA or maybe (doubtful) China at the end of his career,or maybe, maybe Rodri,who is now off the table via Atletico Madrid buy 3 months ago). All other teams would use him (even Barca)as atrue DMF destroyer.

IF Kante cannot adapt and excel (we need to give him the full year to try,obviously) at the CMF/AMF hybrid role, we face a massive choice. Do we hold onto him,and wager that Sarri will be gone before he (Kante) is too old and has lost insane value? Or do we sell him (OUT OF THE EPL!!!!!!!) and collect £120m, £130m?

I lean towards sell, BUT ONLY on 3 conditions.

1. We are FULL-STOP invested in Sarriball for multiple years. I AM at this point completely,I see the unique potential, it can dominate if we get the RIGHT players.

2. Kante simply cannot adapt,and is utterly wasted being shoved into a position he simply is not cut out for.

3. We take the sale money and at least TRY to grab Neves, thus blocking one of the few pieces to the Shitty puzzle It really WILL fuck them up, Fernandinho is going to be 35 in middle of next season,and it will force them to probably buy Julian Weigl or Leandro Paredes, or maybe, maybe maybe (or very soon) a young 21yo Argentine who plays with Stuttgart, Santiago Ascacíbar.Those 3 the only other remotely great young DH DMFs left at thsi exact moment, unless Shitty are insane and try to prise away Rodri from AM after only one year, which will cost, knowing AM) ,at least £100m. There is a wild card (see below at end)

DH DMF is by far the main thing left that is stopping them from being the clear best team in the world (The only ones who can MAYBE block them, IF they do further big moves (and they surely will), are Barca and Real, Barca more so). Neves is not only 5 and half years younger than Jorginho (so a natural heir apparent down the road) BUT is also far more versatile, and could easily slot into the Sarriball CMF/AMF hybrid role with aplomb. He would be an amazing Kovacic replacement IF we lose Mateo back to fucking Real.

By far the best thing for us is he DOES adapt, but come May/June 2019, if it has NOT worked out,and IF Sarri has been a success (CL football, etc), we really need to look at the long term picture. If that means sell Kante for £125m plus, then so be it. I will not lose my mind, as long as those 3 conditions above are met.

 

My post on Shitty's only true needs is here:

Wildcard there (and in this discussion) is Frenkie De Jong of Ajax. He is perhaps very likely might be capable of becoming a true Jorginho/Busquets level DH DMF. I am not sure on this. He seems capable of playing anywhere on the field, other than GK and Striker.

DH DMF's is the hardest position in football to learn and master. Neves and Dejong are also the best young (21yo and younger) MF's, along with AMF Kai Havertz of Bayer Leverkusen on the planet atm.

After those 3 comes Valencia's Carlos Soler, then followed by (NO ORDER) CMF Amadou Haidara of RB Salzburg, the above mentioned DH DMF Santiago Ascacíbar of Stuttgart, CMF Nicolò Barella of Cagliari, CMF's Tanguy Ndombélé and Houssem Aouar, both of Lyon, DMF Denis Zakaria of Borussia Mönchengladbach, Youri Tielemans of Monaco, DMF Amadou Diawara of Napoli, Franck Kessié of AC Milan, AMF Amine Harit of Schalke, AMF Lucas Paquetá of Flamengo, AMF Pedrinho of Corinthians, CMF Gerson of Fiorentina, and CMF Donny van de Beek of Ajax, IMHO, of course

 

the post:

 

[Johnnyeye 7,415]

we need to extend Kante's contract asap, he along with Hazard is our most priceless asset, PSG are sniffing around too much for my liking, they can fuck off

[Stats 6,988]

He has looked really average again tonight for France. He has made a couple decent tackles but he needs to show more to his game. He has been caught in possession a couple of times. I want to see him dominate games more. Maybe I am coming across harsh but he has set such high standards and I am yet to see him but in a dominant type of performance he used to put in, this season for club or country.

[!Hazard! 3,394]

11 minutes ago, Stats said:

He has looked really average again tonight for France. He has made a couple decent tackles but he needs to show more to his game. He has been caught in possession a couple of times. I want to see him dominate games more. Maybe I am coming across harsh but he has set such high standards and I am yet to see him but in a dominant type of performance he used to put in, this season for club or country.

He's only a human. Give the man some rest.

 

I'd like to see Barkley, Jorginho and Kovacic midfield in some game

[Stats 6,988]

15 minutes ago, !Hazard! said:

He's only a human. Give the man some rest.

 

I'd like to see Barkley, Jorginho and Kovacic midfield in some game

He improved a lot more after my comment tbf but first half, especially, him and Pogba got completely overran by Germany. Did improve a lot though after, like I said so my comments must of enraged him

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

2 hours ago, !Hazard! said:

He's only a human. Give the man some rest.

 

I'd like to see Barkley, Jorginho and Kovacic midfield in some game

I was going to say the same.  I know he makes us question it sometimes, but he is still just a human.  

[mccg 1,528]

On 16/10/2018 at 9:24 PM, !Hazard! said:

I'd like to see Barkley, Jorginho and Kovacic midfield in some game

I'd like to see Barkley,Kante,Ruben in some games , or a change in formation 4231 with Kante+Jorginho as a two , don't think we are getting the best out of Kante playing this position 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

I dont know why people wanted more from Kante. The man is a destructor. A hard worker that breaks play. Yet people point out he needs to do more in attack. More goals, better passes, more creativity? What the fuck? Did media completely brainwashed everyone into thinking everyone is good only if they score goals and make assists? I dont remember people saying "oh this dude Makelele is ok, but he needs to work on possesion and score more goals". 

Give the man a break. He is a DM beast while he is only allright in this advanced role. But he wont be the great game changer because thats not his style. 

People seriously dont appreciate anything anymore. 

Regardless of what anyone says, Kante isnt suited in this advanced role because his attacking outlet simply isnt that prolific. And his defensive atributes dont come as visible. But that doesnt mean he isnt crucial to the team. He does the hard work, so Jorginho can do his job and Kovacic can do his. Yet all we hear is "Kante man you gotta improve; better passing, better control, more goals, more efficiency, because we dont realy mind about the fact you are destructor so just drop that shit and focus on attack. We dont want you to be who you are, we want you to be more, something else, score goals and make assists because thats what counts"

[Stats 6,988]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

I dont know why people wanted more from Kante. The man is a destructor. A hard worker that breaks play. Yet people point out he needs to do more in attack. More goals, better passes, more creativity? What the fuck? Did media completely brainwashed everyone into thinking everyone is good only if they score goals and make assists? I dont remember people saying "oh this dude Makelele is ok, but he needs to work on possesion and score more goals". 

Give the man a break. He is a DM beast while he is only allright in this advanced role. But he wont be the great game changer because thats not his style. 

People seriously dont appreciate anything anymore. 

Regardless of what anyone says, Kante isnt suited in this advanced role because his attacking outlet simply isnt that prolific. And his defensive atributes dont come as visible. But that doesnt mean he isnt crucial to the team. He does the hard work, so Jorginho can do his job and Kovacic can do his. Yet all we hear is "Kante man you gotta improve; better passing, better control, more goals, more efficiency, because we dont realy mind about the fact you are destructor so just drop that shit and focus on attack. We dont want you to be who you are, we want you to be more, something else, score goals and make assists because thats what counts"

The thing is that, yes he is a hard worker that breaks play but he just looks a little lost in this system. In the recent matches I have seen him, I just don't think he is doing anything special. It is like you could put any other B2B and they can do what he is doing. He has been sloppy in possession too. People also agree that he is not at his best in the advanced role and that is something we need to address because he is having no way near the same impact as he did with us when he first arrived. And while he is a destructor, I am concerned regarding his overall game. There were times last season, where I was saying his technical ability has very much improved but this seems to be an area of concern again.

I just feel that his reputation since Leicester and his first season at us, makes him exempt of a lot of criticism because this season bar the Huddersfield game, I am yet to see a game where I have thought, "wow, Kante has been exceptional". Sometimes I am seeing a player run around who makes the occasion tackle but not actually contributing anything special. I may sound controversial but I just don't think he has been impressive this season. Another concern is that he is not always wining his 50/50 duels too and I know he has a small frame but this never used to a problem for him. Now it seems it is.

For instance when we played Liverpool, I thought Wijnaldum showed a complete DM/CM performance. Dominated the midfield and was a like a Kante type performance. That is what I have failed to see from Kante this season and the reason why it concerns me with Kante more is because majority of fans would say our 2 best players are Hazard and Kante. When a player is described as your best player or up there, I expect a little more than people just saying his job is to break up play. He is playing for a top team so there should be a better level of technical ability. He made one brilliant interception from Pogba in the game but other than that thought he was a passer by and Pogba constantly was controlling our midfield. Compare that to last season and the season before when we beat United 4-0 and 1-0, Kante was simply brilliant and controlled the game on a technical basis and was everywhere.

[mccg 1,528]

5 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

I dont know why people wanted more from Kante. The man is a destructor. A hard worker that breaks play. Yet people point out he needs to do more in attack. More goals, better passes, more creativity? What the fuck? Did media completely brainwashed everyone into thinking everyone is good only if they score goals and make assists? I dont remember people saying "oh this dude Makelele is ok, but he needs to work on possesion and score more goals". 

Give the man a break. He is a DM beast while he is only allright in this advanced role. But he wont be the great game changer because thats not his style. 

People seriously dont appreciate anything anymore. 

Regardless of what anyone says, Kante isnt suited in this advanced role because his attacking outlet simply isnt that prolific. And his defensive atributes dont come as visible. But that doesnt mean he isnt crucial to the team. He does the hard work, so Jorginho can do his job and Kovacic can do his. Yet all we hear is "Kante man you gotta improve; better passing, better control, more goals, more efficiency, because we dont realy mind about the fact you are destructor so just drop that shit and focus on attack. We dont want you to be who you are, we want you to be more, something else, score goals and make assists because thats what counts"

Think i'd like to see more of Kante as the dm beast than his advanced role , somewhere down the line(sarri needs afew more players Jan/summer) 4231 might be giving a go 

[Dazzy_Vance 454]

I don’t see how he’s going to fit into Sarri’s system. Jorginho, Barkley and Kovacic would be a great midfield moving forward (with Ampadu developing). I wouldn’t be against selling Kante to PSG for £150m if it meant we signed some quality in attack.

[Vesper 27,417]

Blues could LOSE ‘unhappy’ N’Golo Kante due to Maurizio Sarri decision

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/737858/Chelsea-news-N-Golo-Kante-PSG-Maurizio-Sarri-decision-Blues-could-LOSE-unhappy

That’s according to former Blues and Republic of Ireland striker Tony Cascarino.

The pundit reckons Kante is displeased with the more advanced position he is playing under boss Maurizio Sarri.

Kante shone at Leicester in a holding midfield role and has become one of the best in the world since joining Chelsea.

The World Cup winner is now one of the most sought-after players in Europe.

Ligue 1 champions Paris St-Germain are particular admirers and were on the verge of making a bid for the star last summer.

Sarri has deployed Kante further forward to accommodate summer signing Jorginho who shields the defence.

But Cascarino thinks Chelsea are playing with fire because Kante may decide the time is right for a new challenge.

“N’Golo Kante is looking like he is unhappy with the position he is playing in,” he wrote in his column in The Times.

“That is a worry for Chelsea because they could lose him if he is unsettled.

“This is a player who will be wanted by every club in Europe.

“He still looks a quality player, but I’m not convinced he’s suited to this more advanced role on the right of a midfield three with Jorginho in the central sitting role.

“When he plays in that deeper role he glides across the pitch.

“He’s everywhere in front of the back four, robbing the ball from the opposition and running at pace, passing people, feeding the more advanced players.

“In that position, he’s the best in the world, but he’s not in his present one.

“Maurizio Sarri said after Saturday’s draw with Chelsea that United are better in a physical game and I thought that was telling.

“He doesn’t want his midfielders getting involved in battles, but that is what Kante is so good at.”

 

snip

see this repost for geat explanation

Chelsea: Sarrismo has no place for a fully defensive N’Golo Kante

https://theprideoflondon.com/2018/09/24/chelsea-sarrismo-ngolo-kante-midfield/

 

 

 

 

It's pretty simply (the options)

1 (best for all) Kante adapts

2  Kante doesn't adapt and the we HAVE to sell him whilst we still get huge money

or

3 We sack Sarri and go back to trad DMF system (in this case it is INSANE to sell Kante)

 

No, there is no option 4 that will work, we cannot just shove a non-adapting Kante out there for multiple years

that is just both gutless AND stupid from every angle

just because he is the best trad DMF doesn't mean he can fit into the system, and the system prevails every time, as long as Sarri is here

 

we will know what to do by May at the latest

[!Hazard! 3,394]

Exactly the player PSG needs right now. I wonder how much money in addition to Kante would they want in exchange for Mbappe?

[Jase 43,479]

16 hours ago, Vesper said:

Blues could LOSE ‘unhappy’ N’Golo Kante due to Maurizio Sarri decision

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/737858/Chelsea-news-N-Golo-Kante-PSG-Maurizio-Sarri-decision-Blues-could-LOSE-unhappy

That’s according to former Blues and Republic of Ireland striker Tony Cascarino.

The pundit reckons Kante is displeased with the more advanced position he is playing under boss Maurizio Sarri.

Kante shone at Leicester in a holding midfield role and has become one of the best in the world since joining Chelsea.

The World Cup winner is now one of the most sought-after players in Europe.

Ligue 1 champions Paris St-Germain are particular admirers and were on the verge of making a bid for the star last summer.

Sarri has deployed Kante further forward to accommodate summer signing Jorginho who shields the defence.

But Cascarino thinks Chelsea are playing with fire because Kante may decide the time is right for a new challenge.

“N’Golo Kante is looking like he is unhappy with the position he is playing in,” he wrote in his column in The Times.

“That is a worry for Chelsea because they could lose him if he is unsettled.

“This is a player who will be wanted by every club in Europe.

“He still looks a quality player, but I’m not convinced he’s suited to this more advanced role on the right of a midfield three with Jorginho in the central sitting role.

“When he plays in that deeper role he glides across the pitch.

“He’s everywhere in front of the back four, robbing the ball from the opposition and running at pace, passing people, feeding the more advanced players.

“In that position, he’s the best in the world, but he’s not in his present one.

“Maurizio Sarri said after Saturday’s draw with Chelsea that United are better in a physical game and I thought that was telling.

“He doesn’t want his midfielders getting involved in battles, but that is what Kante is so good at.”

Great...another fella trying to pigeonhole Kante as defensive player and one who cannot improve/play in a different position!  At least Danny Higginbotham and Mark Schwarzer offered a better perspective on Kante's role under Sarri.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1034539/Chelsea-N-Golo-Kante-Sky-Sports-pundit

"I think there's two reasons why N'Golo Kante's role has changed," Higginbotham told Sky Sports.

"One is the simple fact that with him pushing high and pushing the opposition midfield back, you then give Jorginho extra time and space because midfielders are then worried about Kante getting beyond, they are worried about Mateo Kovacic or Ross Barkley getting beyond.

"The worst thing from a defender's point of view is if that gap appears between myself and the midfield.

"That's a real dangerous area there because as a centre-back or a full-back you don't want to step out.

"What that does it creates space for Jorginho because you drive the midfield back.

"Not just that, the pressing is so energetic when they lose the ball they press straight away.

"Kante is finding himself in a position now where he can actually be one of the first ones to press.

"If any teams have ideas of playing the counter-attack against Chelsea because they leave themselves a little bit open at the back, by the time they have that first touch, their second touch is to get it out of harm's way or put it out for a throw-in to give themselves a breather."

But for former Chelsea keeper Schwarzer, the change in Kante's position has actually made him less effective.

"It's still taking him time to adapt to it. There's no doubt he's a top class player and even playing in the position he's playing in, he's still playing really well," he said.

"But I don't think he's playing as well as he probably did last season or the season before in a slightly deeper role.

"However, because he has that ability to get up and back for the whole 90 minutes, he's such an asset to have.

"Part of the danger is the space in between your defenders and midfield, and players like Hazard, Barkley and Pedro find that space, it's also the threat in between. Not from Giroud necessarily - he's the guy who tries to stretch them at times but he is also the guy who comes to the ball.

"It's the threat from Willian, Pedro and Kante in behind with those deep runs that are even harder to defend against."

[OneMoSalah 8,619]

Don't see the problem with Kante. He's still been pretty good, his tackles and interceptions are probably down but still he hasn't been poor which you'd think reading half the shit on this thread and on twitter. He's still getting to learn that role, he isn't as effective in the final third as Kovacic or Barkley perhaps but he posses the speed to cause issues as a third man runner off the ball, as well as pressing the opposition. He still gives us legs in midfield, Jorginho isnt that quick and Kovacic/Barkley at times are caught on their heels also, sure the teams changed style but he's still a vital cog in my eyes and once the team fully adapts to Sarri's philosophy everybody will improve again. Just look at Allan in the Napoli team under Sarri before making stupid assumptions that more defensive minded midfielders cannot thrive in his system, Allan was considered more of a destroyed but he showed he could do more. Anybody who thinks Kante needs replaced seriously should just log out for a month or two...

[the wes 7,212]

Andres Iniesta named N’golo Kante as the one player he would have liked to have played with for many years.

https://talksport.com/football/441054/barcelona-chelsea-ngolo-kante-andres-iniesta/