The Conte Thread

[Superblue 6,372]

4 hours ago, Tomo said:

The part don't get is, if he is so intent on leaving and it's decided, why is he even doing this? If he left us in the summer with us in a solid top 4 place his stock would arguably be even higher cause of the not so great circumstances. He has proven he can get great performances out of flawed squads, so if he's going, why is he not focusing ALL his energy on going out in a blaze of glory? If he is that desperate to stick two middle fingers up to Roman and the hierarchy, what better way to do so than walking away with a CL medal round his neck? 

And the hardest thing to take from all of this is we were in a strong position in January, we were comfortably in top 4 and it looked very likely we would finish 2nd (United were flaking and Spurs/Liverpool were at arms length), but Conte had another episode and now we look certain to be playing Thursday nights next season. If Conte left in December i would have been devastated, if he leaves now i'd happily offer to clear his desk myself. 

Literally feels like we have had two different managers since Conte took over, one was every bit as good as Jose the first time (if not better) and the other's worse than Scolari.

Agree, I think there is a huge element of sympathy for Conte with what happened in the summer. We made a complete dog's dinner of the transfer market and spent a lot of money on a lack of quality.

I actually felt that our January signings weren't too bad given the circumstances and we didn't exactly pay silly money for any of them. Emerson and Barkley certainly were an eye towards the future and Giroud was a necessary short term purchase which we didn't get fleeced for.

The fact is though that in 2018 we've taken 11 points from a possible 30. That is barely bottom six quality, and that has to be placed at Conte's door. He has failed to arrest the alarming form, pick the players up, change up tactics/personnel, etc. 

[KevinAshburner 1,270]

'Antonio Conte cannot wait to leave Chelsea... he can't stand that they don't consult him on transfers,' claims former boss Gianluca Vialli

By JORDAN SEWARD FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 19:24 AEST, 2 April 2018 | UPDATED: 21:01 AEST, 2 April 2018

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5569235/Antonio-Conte-wait-leave-Chelsea-claims-former-team-mate-Gianluca-Vialli.html

 

Antonio Conte 'cannot wait to leave Chelsea,' according to former team-mate and ex-Blues boss Gianluca Vialli.

The Italian's future at Stamford Bridge looked uncertain even before their heavy defeat by London rivals Tottenham on Sunday with the Chelsea boss admitting for the first time he 'does not know' if he will still be at the club next season.

But the slip-up saw Chelsea lose further ground on the race to finish in the top four, something that is likely to have caused more anxiety upstairs and could prove to be decisive when he sits down to discuss his future later this month.

 

[Laylabelle 9,754]

Well he isn't the first to have said that... It does seem to be a recurring issue that the next manager will have to deal with.. And one after that... And so fortb

[communicate 2,703]

9 hours ago, Tomo said:

I think what swung Lukaku's deal in United's favour was Jose guaranteed him unconditional playtime, something Conte wouldn't.

Nah it is more the fact that Lukaku cost 30 mmore than Morata. I think Morata with addon is around 60 where Lukaku is 60+30

[Jase 43,479]

9 hours ago, Tomo said:

The part don't get is, if he is so intent on leaving and it's decided, why is he even doing this? If he left us in the summer with us in a solid top 4 place his stock would arguably be even higher cause of the not so great circumstances. He has proven he can get great performances out of flawed squads, so if he's going, why is he not focusing ALL his energy on going out in a blaze of glory? If he is that desperate to stick two middle fingers up to Roman and the hierarchy, what better way to do so than walking away with a CL medal round his neck? 

And the hardest thing to take from all of this is we were in a strong position in January, we were comfortably in top 4 and it looked very likely we would finish 2nd (United were flaking and Spurs/Liverpool were at arms length), but Conte had another episode and now we look certain to be playing Thursday nights next season. If Conte left in December i would have been devastated, if he leaves now i'd happily offer to clear his desk myself. 

Literally feels like we have had two different managers since Conte took over, one was every bit as good as Jose the first time (if not better) and the other's worse than Scolari.

Made a similar point some time ago. We're led to believe that he's a winner, one who's obsessed with winning at all cost and will suffer emotionally if we don't. But from what we've seen this season, especially in 2018, he's nothing like that. Has had the look of a man who doesn't give a shit anymore and one who can't be bothered to find solutions when things go wrong. A stark contrast to last season when he was constantly finding solutions to problems. I still remember his post-match presser after that debacle at Arsenal - he was hurt, angry, didn't offer any excuses and was focused on turning things around. Compare that to now? It's just excuses after excuses and he's always shifting the blame to others. No doubt he'll continue to put his second season failure on the lack of backing from the board, that he has a flawed squad and people will buy into those excuses.

[The Mak 4,459]

When I look at some player's performances yesterday compared to Barcelona (e.g. Willian), I can't help but feel sorry for him. OK, at times it does feel like Conte doesn't care as much but that is also on the players. It's a two-way street. Who started feeling that way first is an irrelevant chicken-egg debate. 

We're in a place now where we're running out of top managers to choose from. My first thoughts are that he should stay and be backed in the summer - I think we will do well next year if we've fewer competitions to think about. But I also don't want this year-over-year yo-yo season shit to continue. I also don't think there is a better manager out there to choose from. If the air can be cleared during the summer, I'd like him to stay.

Regardless, the fact remains that we need more investment if we want to challenge on all fronts. The board will not change though. The likes of City will continue to spend big (despite their very inflated/imaginary 'revenue streams') and we will scrape around in the bargain bins. 

Hey, at least we go big or go home in recent years (win the league or be shit). Which means next year....

[Tomo 21,754]

1 hour ago, The Mak said:

When I look at some player's performances yesterday compared to Barcelona (e.g. Willian), I can't help but feel sorry for him. OK, at times it does feel like Conte doesn't care as much but that is also on the players. It's a two-way street. Who started feeling that way first is an irrelevant chicken-egg debate. 

We're in a place now where we're running out of top managers to choose from. My first thoughts are that he should stay and be backed in the summer - I think we will do well next year if we've fewer competitions to think about. But I also don't want this year-over-year yo-yo season shit to continue. I also don't think there is a better manager out there to choose from. If the air can be cleared during the summer, I'd like him to stay.

Regardless, the fact remains that we need more investment if we want to challenge on all fronts. The board will not change though. The likes of City will continue to spend big (despite their very inflated/imaginary 'revenue streams') and we will scrape around in the bargain bins. 

Hey, at least we go big or go home in recent years (win the league or be shit). Which means next year....

We are only running out of manager's if having a multi trophy track record is the only requirement we are going for, furthermore most of that breed are past it anyway (Jose, Wenger, Carlo). Also the money thing doesn't really wash anymore, if we were 2nd behind City fair enough, but going by the logic of Conte himself we shouldn't in a million years be behind Liverpool and especially not Spurs.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

2 hours ago, The Mak said:

When I look at some player's performances yesterday compared to Barcelona (e.g. Willian), I can't help but feel sorry for him. OK, at times it does feel like Conte doesn't care as much but that is also on the players. It's a two-way street. Who started feeling that way first is an irrelevant chicken-egg debate. 
 

Why should anyone feel sorry for a manager who simply has an inferior coaching philosophy to the rival manager while actually getting paid way more in salary. We get outplayed every time we face Spurs the same way we get outplayed every time we face City and most times we face Liverpool. It's logical that after a while this luck will run out and the opposing team gets what they deserve. 

[Laylabelle 9,754]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

We are only running out of manager's if having a multi trophy track record is the only requirement we are going for, furthermore most of that breed are past it anyway (Jose, Wenger, Carlo). Also the money thing doesn't really wash anymore, if we were 2nd behind City fair enough, but going by the logic of Conte himself we shouldn't in a million years be behind Liverpool and especially not Spurs.

Long as any manager we approach has a short term vision and doesn't expect more then a 2 year stay. Its bound to be seen as a sort of pit stop if carry on like this. Know it didn't turn out well for Brendan anyway and no loss but for him to say he wouldn't take the Chelsea job if offered and he didn't want to damage his career.. Is telling 

It was always going to happen that's what's so frustrating. Last year teams strengthened and we brought crap. He's lost whatever he had last season and for some reason is so hesitant with subs.. Changing line up. 

Like said before though if I knew I was off in summer wouldn't give a crap what happened. So much speculation so early on

[Fulham Broadway 17,810]

He's confided in Vialli that the transfers aren't his choices and he's off at the end of the season. He's keeping schtum, just as Jose and others did because otherwise they lose a few million pounds.

The disconnect between manager and owner/board we've seen so many times, and this short termism has brought copious amounts of silverware, that can not be denied.

However it could be better, by investing in a long term plan that Citeh, Liverpool, and Sp*rs seem to be doing. It's just embarrassing that this is carried out every other season, and the fans turn on the manager. His body language is totally different this season, and it infects the players. This could be remedied by a long term plan by the board, and would avoid petulant 'just going through the motions' like bringing on substitutes in the 80th minute. Conte, to my mind though, is not above criticism beyond the disconnect with the board. eg the Costa debacle, and not remedying the Luiz saga.

[ChelseaFanUK 1,014]

If it wasn't for the £9m payoff, he'd have been gone at latest following the Watford loss. 

Board are to blame failing to build on a title win AGAIN, but also Conte's whinging and complaining in the media is tiresome.  Players take notice, they get affected and it leads to a divide between them and the manager.

Some of that squad are not fond of Conte, of that I am sure. And the reason is his constant subtle digs in the media

And no, there is literally no scenario where he stays.  So the 'Conte In' crowd of which i was very much part of, brace yourselves for disappointment

I'd get rid of Marina for a start, bring in a proper DoF.  Campos at Monaco, Leonardo ex-PSG.  DoF's who dont piss about with targets

[Tomo 21,754]

1 hour ago, Laylabelle said:

Long as any manager we approach has a short term vision and doesn't expect more then a 2 year stay. Its bound to be seen as a sort of pit stop if carry on like this. Know it didn't turn out well for Brendan anyway and no loss but for him to say he wouldn't take the Chelsea job if offered and he didn't want to damage his career.. Is telling 

It was always going to happen that's what's so frustrating. Last year teams strengthened and we brought crap. He's lost whatever he had last season and for some reason is so hesitant with subs.. Changing line up. 

Like said before though if I knew I was off in summer wouldn't give a crap what happened. So much speculation so early on

It's quite funny he said that because ultimately he probably ruined his reputation at Liverpool more than he would have with us.

[Fulham Broadway 17,810]

17 minutes ago, ChelseaFanUK said:

I'd get rid of Marina for a start,

Good luck with that. Sibneft crew stick together.

[Laylabelle 9,754]

59 minutes ago, Tomo said:

It's quite funny he said that because ultimately he probably ruined his reputation at Liverpool more than he would have with us.

Yeah that didn't end to well... Woops!!! 

I am trying to build my career and not destroy it.'

'There is so much going for Chelsea - it’s a terrific club,' he added in the South Wales Evening Post. 'But you can’t continue doing what they do and have success. It does not work.

'The next manager who goes in there will have the same problems and issues. It’s a big job and demanding job - that’s how it is at the big clubs and that’s why the salaries are so high

Just interesting how he mentions the issues and that was said in 2012..i remember random crap haha but jump forward 6 years and still there. 

[Blue Armour 4,759]

On 4/2/2018 at 3:30 PM, Fulham Broadway said:

He's confided in Vialli that the transfers aren't his choices and he's off at the end of the season. He's keeping schtum, just as Jose and others did because otherwise they lose a few million pounds.

The disconnect between manager and owner/board we've seen so many times, and this short termism has brought copious amounts of silverware, that can not be denied.

However it could be better, by investing in a long term plan that Citeh, Liverpool, and Sp*rs seem to be doing. It's just embarrassing that this is carried out every other season, and the fans turn on the manager. His body language is totally different this season, and it infects the players. This could be remedied by a long term plan by the board, and would avoid petulant 'just going through the motions' like bringing on substitutes in the 80th minute. Conte, to my mind though, is not above criticism beyond the disconnect with the board. eg the Costa debacle, and not remedying the Luiz saga.

On the topic of long term vs short term...

 

I guess the clues were there from the beginning of this season, when they didn't opt to extend Conte's contract length. Clearly learning from the Mourinho debacle. Looks like the club was always fearing for the worst. 

[cfcs most wanted 657]

I am so fed up of people believing that quality is the thing that is most lacking in the club, not at all, it's leadership that's missing. You can't expect to be a goal up against united or Tottenham if your team isn't good enough, but they did, the problem is they fell apart later because there isn't anyone to guide them. I mean our captain is Azpilicueta for fucks sake, he is one of the best players in this world but he's not a leader, did you ever seen him trying to gear up Christensen or Courtois after their mistakes against Barcelona? He just isn't meant for being a leader. We have too many good players who play for their own well being and can't give any attention to maybe help their teammate who is probably not in the best of conditions

Now as to why this is in the Conte thread, leaders are not born, they are made. This is quite a young squad, it was up to the manager to convert them into a squad rather than a team of brilliant individuals, and not only has he failed miserably, he is the most fuck all amongst them. Before new signings we need a manager who could instill confidence and passion that has been long lost amongst these players.

 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

6 hours ago, cfcs most wanted said:

I am so fed up of people believing that quality is the thing that is most lacking in the club, not at all, it's leadership that's missing. You can't expect to be a goal up against united or Tottenham if your team isn't good enough, but they did, the problem is they fell apart later because there isn't anyone to guide them. I mean our captain is Azpilicueta for fucks sake, he is one of the best players in this world but he's not a leader, did you ever seen him trying to gear up Christensen or Courtois after their mistakes against Barcelona? He just isn't meant for being a leader. We have too many good players who play for their own well being and can't give any attention to maybe help their teammate who is probably not in the best of conditions

Now as to why this is in the Conte thread, leaders are not born, they are made. This is quite a young squad, it was up to the manager to convert them into a squad rather than a team of brilliant individuals, and not only has he failed miserably, he is the most fuck all amongst them. Before new signings we need a manager who could instill confidence and passion that has been long lost amongst these players.

 

While the quality of players dropped from last season, I also think the players are not happy with conte for the costa situation and also david luiz. But what did the most damage especially since January has been Conte criticizing the quality of the players he has from all angles, at every press conference.

These players have families who watch these press conferences of their manager saying they're not good enough. Its frustrating. Immediately Conte quarreled with mourinho over the bald head issue he started looking for something to criticize everywhere and the players are no longer playing with the same hunger of last season.

[Jase 43,479]

8 hours ago, cfcs most wanted said:

I am so fed up of people believing that quality is the thing that is most lacking in the club, not at all, it's leadership that's missing. You can't expect to be a goal up against united or Tottenham if your team isn't good enough, but they did, the problem is they fell apart later because there isn't anyone to guide them. I mean our captain is Azpilicueta for fucks sake, he is one of the best players in this world but he's not a leader, did you ever seen him trying to gear up Christensen or Courtois after their mistakes against Barcelona? He just isn't meant for being a leader. We have too many good players who play for their own well being and can't give any attention to maybe help their teammate who is probably not in the best of conditions

I'm inclined to agree that Azpi is not a leader or that he's not necessarily the type of person who can inspire - although that depends on whether others even care - but in his defence, he's one of the few who constantly instructs/directs the back four in defensive situations or has a go at someone if they slack off in a defensive situation. On top of that, Moses revealed some time ago that Azpi was his biggest influence since moving to the right wing back, helping and guiding him to settle into the role. But whether Azpi is a leader here isn't the issue. It's the fact that very few players seem bothered about playing for the club right now. Some are giving their all while others constantly have their eyes elsewhere and the constant negativity created by Conte can't be helping either. The main reason why our previous squad was so successful was because there were many leaders. It wasn't only because we had Terry or Lampard or Drogba. They were all leaders, they had the character and the 'balls' to not only win when things are going well but also fight hard to get results when things aren't going well. This squad just doesn't have those. If we analyze the current squad and see who has those characteristics mentioned, it'll be probably be just 2-3 players at most. 

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Fuck off.

[WNDS 502]

45 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Games like the one tonight don't reflect to well on him at all. Look at Liverpool's line up tonight:

Which makes his excuse of lack of backing in the transfer market all the more shallow and downright laughable. Liverpool attacked City ferociusly in that 1st half. Not just when they had the ball but without the ball they pressed City high up the pitch and didn't give them room to breath and to recyle possession. De Bruyne and Silva were stifled. 

Conte on the other hand rarely utilizes a high press. He goes into games against teams like City with the mentality that his team has to "suffer". When City have the ball we immediately put 10 men behind the ball and hope for some misplaced pass by City to pounce for the sporadic counter-attack. 

We have a better squad than Pool, a team that were title winners before Conte's arrival. It's obvious Conte's biggest problem this season is tactical and he doesn't have the big advantage of playing 1 game a week to help the players with preparation and rest from his rigourous training methods. Conte's rotations, in game tactics, personnel use and player management have been well below the required standard this season. Not getting top 4 is just unacceptable. 

 

Pretty much agree with all of this (although I don't dislike Conte as a manager anywhere as much as you seem to ), but that last part in particular needs emphasising.

My issue with Conte hasn't been that we've found ourselves unable to compete for the highest honours this season (an issue that's probably due to the board's huge cock-up regarding our non-Kante CM position), but rather that he's 'successfully' talked our squad down to the extent that (a few games aside) our players seem to have had the belief sucked out of them; as a result, we've basically failed to make top-four with a squad that is COMFORTABLY up to that standard (top-four/five/six in Europe is another matter entirely, of course).

I feel that the same can be said of our manager: Conte himself is up to that standard; he's not exceptional, but he's very good. He's also very stubborn and absolutely convinced that his assessment of the relative merits of our current squad is correct, and this appears to have caused him to adopt inflexible ways of thinking as regards our team (e.g. an insistence on playing 3-at-the-back formations no matter what). He really should have accepted how things were once the summer transfer window closed (perhaps resolving to move elswhere this coming summer) and knuckled-down with the squad he actually has at his disposal, instead of spending far too much of his time moaning at all-and-sundry about how he wanted a different one. Or otherwise he should have left in protest. One or the other, because it's become increasingly evident as this season has progressed that Conte has taken his eye off the ball and wound-up in a no-man's-land, even if he hasn't realised it himself; the results are plain for all to see, however.