The Mourinho Thread

[Strike 7,527]

Well, you don't draw the line, at least not in the foreseeable future. We are required to win trophies every year and that means having the best squad possible every year. The promising young players will continue to be loaned out until they are good enough to be part of the regular first team, except for extraordinary talent or circumstances like Ake and (I hope) Christensen.

Exactly. Every season is crucial. That's life at Chelsea but I think it's possible to do it and give the youth players a chance in the League Cup. The best teams in the last decade have done it, so let's not act as if it's not possible to do that.

[didierforever 7,349]

Exactly. Every season is crucial. That's life at Chelsea but I think it's possible to do it and give the youth players a chance in the League Cup. The best teams in the last decade have done it, so let's not act as if it's not possible to do that.

the best teams in england who have done that are arsenal and liverpool who are trophy deprived. . united have won a league cup in ages. city who did win the league cup played their squad players in it. we need a silverware to take some pressure and heat off off us

and we did give chances to youth players in the league cup games.we started with chirstensen, zouma, ake against shrewsbury

we started with ake and zouma against bolton.

[Strike 7,527]

I think I should add that I have absolutely zero problems if José gives a chance or two to youth players. I'm not against the integration, I don't think the time was the best at the Sporting match and Mourinho seems very invested in the League Cup (he knows the league title race as well as UCL will be tight and we may not end up winning either again, so he's probably thinking that it's better make sure he doesn't end trophy-less again).

I praised Aké when he was played earlier the season, I was happy to see him in the bench for league games and I'm sure he'll be given more chances and I'll support him and Mourinho 100%. I just can't crucify him for not playing any of them for a considerable stretch of time in those two matches (Sporting and Derby).

I'm positive at least Aké will play a few more league games for us (probably FA Cup too) in the following months if he's in form. I don't see the others being there yet. Although they've showed great flashes of talent, it seems like people's memory is short or selective. One name: Kakuta.

Kids at age 18 and 19 may look years light ahead of others in the youth competitions but it doesn't mean it'll carried into their senior career. Talent is important, but isn't everything. If you have a chance to train with a high profile manager as José everyday (and some of the kids were promoted to the main squad after all), you learn and grow a lot and he gets to know you. That's the way to go. I like it better than van Gaal throwing Wilson against Liverpool, because that's what he did, he threw the kid there... although Liverpool's team is a joke and Falcao couldn't play even 45 minutes... He probably didn't have many options, but a lot of things could have gone wrong - or right - they were nothing though. The kid didn't so anything wrong, or didn't contribute a lot with the match. Good passenger presentation, but I bet he and van Gaal's and United's fans were all happy.

There are lot of better examples than Wilson. It seems you are scared about playing the kids for some reason, that they will not produce the quality required at the senior level but I think some of the best examples of youth integration happened at this age itself - 18 to 20.

[Barbara 15,149]

There are lot of better examples than Wilson. It seems you are scared about playing the kids for some reason, that they will not produce the quality required at the senior level but I think some of the best examples of youth integration happened at this age itself - 18 to 20.

of course I'd be cautious because there's no reason to risk the kid feeling the weight of the world on his shoulders if he does something wrong that costs the result. Let them play pressure free for a few times and then start playing them in trickier situations.

I see those kids as babies, that need to be protected from rushed decisions, here in Brazil is VERY common to throw the kids to the lions because the clubs don't have money, new talents rise here all the time and get their careers destroyed because guess what, they're still 18 to 20yo.

If Mourinho had a problem playing players that age, Zouma wouldn't be playing as much as he has. He doesn't have a problem, but he feels like they need to be in a certain level before being integrated. I think Zouma is being integrated brilliantly. What does he have over our kids? French blood? No, his manager assessment that he is ready.

[Strike 7,527]

the best teams in england who have done that are arsenal and liverpool who are trophy deprived. . united have won a league cup in ages. city who did win the league cup played their squad players in it. we need a silverware to take some pressure and heat off off us

and we did give chances to youth players in the league cup games.we started with chirstensen, zouma, ake against shrewsbury

we started with ake and zouma against bolton.

That is true but Chelsea is a lot better team than any of the sides you mentioned. And Arsenal made 10 changes for their League cup match against Southampton. Not asking for that. That is stupidity

[Strike 7,527]

of course I'd be cautious because there's no reason to risk the kid feeling the weight of the world on his shoulders if he does something wrong that costs the result. Let them play pressure free for a few times and then start playing them in trickier situations.

I see those kids as babies, that need to be protected from rushed decisions, here in Brazil is VERY common to throw the kids to the lions because the clubs don't have money, new talents rise here all the time and get their careers destroyed because guess what, they're still 18 to 20yo.

If Mourinho had a problem playing players that age, Zouma wouldn't be playing as much as he has. He doesn't have a problem, but he feels like they need to be in a certain level before being integrated. I think Zouma is being integrated brilliantly. What does he have over our kids? French blood? No, his manager assessment that he is ready.

Yes. Zouma's integration has been handled brilliantly. But note he's the 3rd choice CB. In the same way, i think it's possible to have a couple of other players, like Boga for example in Salah's place.

[The Skipper 20,609]

It may as well be because those players aren't used to play at this stage and one single mistake by any of them can cost us results.

Sorry if I don't share the romantic view of integrating youth some of you do where those kids are geniuses waiting to happen, real life prodigies, that don't feel pressure, lack of chemistry with the team, lack of experience, insecurities and other things that can as well affect their games. Sorry if I don't think the moment our confidence has been shaken and we struggled in the quality of the football we've been showing and had a couple of bad results was the right moment to 'integrate youth' as if integration came with a match now and another in five months.

It's not a good time to give them those chances... Mourinho said something along the lines he'd be blamed if in a few years (I guess it was 3 or 4) those kids weren't part of English NT. That's a long way to go from now. Earlier in the season Ake had more chances, I felt like he was the one player Mourinho thought would be ready to take the next step, but then he got injured.

We do have great talent in the youth which is why I think the wisest thing is to work with them step by step, without rushing. So the main team goes through a bad moment form wise and the idea of people is to throw a couple of kids there? Sorry, it feels like a surreal approach. The team needs to regain confidence and I repeat what I said last season and I continue to say again - which is one of the biggest reasons I believe why Drogba was brought to this team. Despite what José says to the media I think we have HUGE profile issues with the team now. There's Terry, Iva and now Drogs, Cesc and Diego who are absolutely winners, who go to each match as if they were going to the battle.

But Azpi, Cahill, Mikel, Oscar, Hazard, Willian, Schurrle among others, don't seem to have that feeling, of winning at any costs despite their speech. I think Mourinho is forming this on their character, but I don't know how much he'll be able to change them. It feels like they lack that fighting and winning spirit, not the will to win, there are no losers there, but they aren't players with a strong profile. They seem to lack bite. It only makes it even more difficult for Mourinho to work with the team and make it reach the places he wants. Introducing youth players now I'm sure is the least of his problems when he has a lot to work with his senior players attitude.

But sure, let's agree to disagree.

Barbara, my point doesn't extend to just recent games where we haven't been on fire. It's in regards to pretty much what we've been doing the whole season. I have no idea where you're getting this notion that because we're not on fire, we should throw in the kids. I'm not saying that at all. That would be stupid.

What I am saying is in competitions like the COC, or like that dead rubber game against Sporting that meant nothing at all, we should be looking to integrate our young talents more than we have - so they can start buying into the team and Mourinho's philosophy, ethics and culture - so that they show everyone in the academy that there is a pathway from the academy to the first team. Like I said before, a lot of people don't have a problem with this facet of Mourinho's management, and Jose himself doesn't seem to put it as one of his priorities either - and that's my only real problem with him and others. I'm not questioning other facets of his management. You don't need to bring that to the table. I'm not attacking Mourinho as a manager.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Yes. Zouma's integration has been handled brilliantly. But note he's the 3rd choice CB. In the same way, i think it's possible to have a couple of other players, like Boga for example in Salah's place.

Zouma isn't really a youngster either IMO. He's a £12m squad player in my eyes. He has to play. He's a huge investment.

[The Skipper 20,609]

That is true but Chelsea is a lot better team than any of the sides you mentioned. And Arsenal made 10 changes for their League cup match against Southampton. Not asking for that. That is stupidity

Those citing Arsenal as an example are clearly not reading the discussion well. No one is asking for a plethora of youth players to start, just 2 of our best and surround them with experience? That isn't much to ask for at all.

[didierforever 7,349]

That is true but Chelsea is a lot better team than any of the sides you mentioned. And Arsenal made 10 changes for their League cup match against Southampton. Not asking for that. That is stupidity

but we have made a lot of changes too. only difference is that we have a massive squad and a squad that is injury free.

we have 4 CM/DMs in cesc, matic, mikel, rambo

we have 5 AMs, 3 strikers, so when people say that youth players must be played instead of these guys, then it does not make sense. why bother with such a massive squad if we are going to put in youth.

also, ake has got a couple of oppurtunities and i am sure he would have started derby too had he been fit, which shows that if jose deems that the youth player is better than the ones we have, he will get an oppurtunity. but asking boga to start when schurrle and salah are in the squad for this specific purpose of playing cup games, is not fair to those players.

[didierforever 7,349]

Those citing Arsenal as an example are clearly not reading the discussion well. No one is asking for a plethora of youth players to start, just 2 of our best and surround them with experience? That isn't much to ask for at all.

we have not?

bolton - ake, zouma

shrewsbury - ake, zouma, chirstensen

derby - zouma.

jose has done EXACTLY that thing.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Well said Barbara, its like people think we're smashing teams 6-0 on the regular, we are winning games that are relatively close. Cup ties are like champions league finals against lesser sides, I would rather we win them then experiment with youth players.

The first objective for this particular squad is to win things, we have a fantastic chance to do that in the COC Jose isn't going to jeopardize that by underestimating the opponent and playing kids over squad players... Its just naive and doesn't fit the investment the club have made to get us to this point.

Yes, because playing a very strong side and having two extremely talented academy players alongside them is jeopardising our season and underestimating the opponent massively... When will people get over the fact that this isn't the case at all?

[The Skipper 20,609]

we have not?

bolton - ake, zouma

shrewsbury - ake, zouma, chirstensen

derby - zouma.

jose has done EXACTLY that thing.

Ake and Zouma aren't academy players atm. They're both members of the first team squad. I'm talking about the likes of RLC, Boga, Christensen, Solanke etc.

If that's the best example you can come up with then you're not getting my point at all.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Yes, because playing a very strong side and having two extremely talented academy players alongside them is jeopardising our season and underestimating the opponent massively... When will people get over the fact that this isn't the case at all?

are we smashing teams with our 1st team? stop living in a dream world brother, we aren't winning comfortably enough to suggest playing our youth over our squad players. If that were the case we would be playing the youth side more.

[The Skipper 20,609]

are we smashing teams with our 1st team? stop living in a dream world brother, we aren't winning comfortably enough to suggest playing our youth over our squad players. If that were the case we would be playing the youth side more.

We don't need to be smashing teams or winning comfortably to introduce these youngsters who are extremely talented in two or three games IMO but each to their own.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Barbara, my point doesn't extend to just recent games where we haven't been on fire. It's in regards to pretty much what we've been doing the whole season. I have no idea where you're getting this notion that because we're not on fire, we should throw in the kids. I'm not saying that at all. That would be stupid.

What I am saying is in competitions like the COC, or like that dead rubber game against Sporting that meant nothing at all, we should be looking to integrate our young talents more than we have - so they can start buying into the team and Mourinho's philosophy, ethics and culture - so that they show everyone in the academy that there is a pathway from the academy to the first team. Like I said before, a lot of people don't have a problem with this facet of Mourinho's management, and Jose himself doesn't seem to put it as one of his priorities either - and that's my only real problem with him and others. I'm not questioning other facets of his management. You don't need to bring that to the table. I'm not attacking Mourinho as a manager.

Agreed. I, for one, never associated Jose Mourinho with developing players - quite on the contrary.

The big question, for me, would be whether developing youngsters is part of his requirements as a manager - did Abramovich actually tell him to work on that as well?

The starting line up against Derby was nothing short of ridiculous... Not even fringe players managed to get a start...

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

We don't need to be smashing teams or winning comfortably to introduce these youngsters who are extremely talented in two or three games IMO but each to their own.

There is a risk involved and this isn't the season for it. You were suggesting we could still do just as well with young, inexperienced players so long as they are insulated with a strong team, well with our strongest XI we are exactly smashing these lesser teams so to suggest that the addition of inexperienced youth wouldn't be a risk is a bit of an oversight on your part.

[didierforever 7,349]

Ake and Zouma aren't academy players atm. They're both members of the first team squad. I'm talking about the likes of RLC, Boga, Christensen, Solanke etc.

If that's the best example you can come up with then you're not getting my point at all.

then tell me whats the point of having a SQUAD??? i think i asked you this question before?

ake and zouma ARE young players who need to be developed and integrated into the squad. just cos they are first teamers, it does not mean they should not be counted as those. also, will you give the same argument for boga and baker, since they too are first teamers.

also, let me get this straight, you want ake, zouma as well as RLC, boga, solanke to start? well thats nothing like arsenal, is it? you yourself have said surrounding 1-2 young players in the team with other 9 experienced players and that is what jose has done.

[The Skipper 20,609]

then tell me whats the point of having a SQUAD??? i think i asked you this question before?

ake and zouma ARE young players who need to be developed and integrated into the squad. just cos they are first teamers, it does not mean they should not be counted as those. also, will you give the same argument for boga and baker, since they too are first teamers.

also, let me get this straight, you want ake, zouma as well as RLC, boga, solanke to start? well thats nothing like arsenal, is it? you yourself have said surrounding 1-2 young players in the team with other 9 experienced players and that is what jose has done.

You're not following the discussion well at all are you? If you were you would've seen a sample side I gave earlier in the thread... It included just Boga and RLC. The rest were senior players (including Zouma)...

[The Skipper 20,609]

There is a risk involved and this isn't the season for it. You were suggesting we could still do just as well with young, inexperienced players so long as they are insulated with a strong team, well with our strongest XI we are exactly smashing these lesser teams so to suggest that the addition of inexperienced youth wouldn't be a risk is a bit of an oversight on your part.

I never said it wouldn't be a risk, in fact I actually mentioned at the start that it is a risk, but then again that's what comes with the package. The best thing you can do is try to reduce that risk by surrounding these players with as much experience as you can - and the XI I put up earlier reflected that perfectly.