The Mourinho Thread

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 17/12/2014 at 04:10, The Skipper said:

No one is asking Mourinho to field an 11 of academy youngsters, where are people getting that from? IMO it isn't the end of the world if we field an experienced 11 and integrate two or three youth players i.e. Boga, RLC and Aké, and surround them with 8/9 senior players. Surely that isn't too much to ask? Surely we should be able to beat a team like Derby with a set up like that?

we have 4 CM/DMs (mikel, rambo, cesc and matic), ahead of RLC.

we have 5 AMs (oscar, hazard, willian, schurrle, salah) ahead of boga,

what is the point of having such a massive squad? specially in a QF of carling cup. youth players will be given a real oppurtunity only when we will give them an actually important squad position ahead of all these fringe players we currently have in the squad or out on loan!!

[GodZola 630]

  On 17/12/2014 at 04:10, The Skipper said:

No one is asking Mourinho to field an 11 of academy youngsters, where are people getting that from? IMO it isn't the end of the world if we field an experienced 11 and integrate two or three youth players i.e. Boga, RLC and Aké, and surround them with 8/9 senior players. Surely that isn't too much to ask? Surely we should be able to beat a team like Derby with a set up like that?

What happens if he decides to do this and we get knocked out? Fans will then go in to overdrive that he should of played a team of senior players - José can't win!

The reasonable and fair minded fans will see what he is trying to achieve but the fickle fans will be on them like an avalanche!

I believe he had the perfect opportunity to give several full debuts against Sporting but strangely decided not too?

Personally think he is using this competition as a stepping stone for better things to come and whilst I agree there is room for players to be given opportunities I have to side with José on this one - for now!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 17/12/2014 at 04:10, The Skipper said:

Surely we should be able to beat a team like Derby with a set up like that?

I'm sorry, but where is exactly is the reasoning for this coming from? You're using this as fact when it is far from it.

Last night, we something very close to our best XI (only Mikel was arguably one of the 'fringe' players after Zouma was subbed off as Luis and Drogba are very much regulars) and we were looking in trouble until the ref decided to wrongly send off a Derby player.

Yes, we managed the game well and made it look fairly comfortable most of the times but that was a close game. Derby played very well and made it difficult for us, as we all knew they would. How exactly do you conclude that we would still have won had a couple of first-teamers been replaced by inexperience youth players?

For me, the way the game panned out and level at which Derby played only confirms that Jose was 100% right to start a very strong team.

[killer1257 3,282]

  On 17/12/2014 at 11:00, GodZola said:

What happens if he decides to do this and we get knocked out? Fans will then go in to overdrive that he should of played a team of senior players - José can't win!

The reasonable and fair minded fans will see what he is trying to achieve but the fickle fans will be on them like an avalanche!

I believe he had the perfect opportunity to give several full debuts against Sporting but strangely decided not too?

Personally think he is using this competition as a stepping stone for better things to come and whilst I agree there is room for players to be given opportunities I have to side with José on this one - for now!

Noboby,and I mean nobody,would have critiziced Mourinho for giving just one youth player a chance against Maribor.That match was the most useless match I have ever seen.RLC for Matic would have made sense.

Aftert 1 or 2 years,Terry will not be a starter.If we mantain our philosophy,there will be no former youth team player in the squad and that is quite sad.Even Real Madrid has two former youth team players in their starting line up.If Cassilas should decide to leave them,they still have one.

The only chance of giving young players a chance this season,is the FA Cup,but maybe Mou will want to play Matic in some of those matches.If Matic gets injured in one of those matches,I will be furious.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

The only reason the likes of LvG and Wenger promote youth is because either the rest of their squad is injured, or the rest of their squad is shit. Would Wilson, McNair, Blackett and company play if all of their regular first-teamers were fit? Not a chance in hell. Wilson possibly, but that kid has a big future ahead of him.

[Stats 7,084]

  On 17/12/2014 at 04:10, The Skipper said:

No one is asking Mourinho to field an 11 of academy youngsters, where are people getting that from? IMO it isn't the end of the world if we field an experienced 11 and integrate two or three youth players i.e. Boga, RLC and Aké, and surround them with 8/9 senior players. Surely that isn't too much to ask? Surely we should be able to beat a team like Derby with a set up like that?

I am one who always voices an opinion on the lack of opportunites for the young ones and I stated that RLC should have been given more minutes against Sporting and the likes of Baker should have played against Shrewsbury etc. But yesterday was not the one. Going into an away game against arguably the best team in the Championship who are playing their best team, there is always a chance of a giant-killing. If were at home then possibly more reason but this is the QF stage and we are serious about winning it. Boga and RLC are top talents but they have never started a competitive fixture before. To throw them into an 11 against a team like Derby is very risky. You understood why RLC did not start the game against Sporting etc but for this game you are surprised that he did not play any of the youngsters. Sporting Lisbon if anything would have been the best game to start the likes of RLC and Boga. A game where only pride was at stake and we were at home.

Going to Derby is not the ideal place to just throw around 3 youngsters in the first team. Ake less so because he has more first team experience however he has just recovering an inury but Derby is a very tough game. Although the COC is not the most prestigious trophy, with where we are now and considering the teams left in the competition I and everyone else I assume would be quite annoyed if we did not go on and win it considering the last time we won the trophy was in 2007. If we played 3 youngsters in the starting 11 and we went out we would be regretting that if we played a stronger team we might have just gone through. You can see while we deserved it yesterday, it was no easy game despite a very strong 11 out there.

[Shane 2,275]

Whatever your views on Jose and the promotion of youth, Both sides of the argument have very valid points and its an interesting discussion, But I really do think Jose knows how vital it is, and he has spoke about it and I get the feeling that no one wants it to work out more then anyone. I also feel its going to happen in the next few years as Jose's influence into the club will grow. I also feel that for the youth to progress the lesser players (Mikel, Ramires, Salah and more to be assessed later in the season i.e Schurrle) need to leave and this should only be done when your starting eleven is at a level where we can allow to put academy players on the bench and give them vital minutes.

Last night at Derby was a good move by Jose imo. They've been playing Premiership quality football in the Championship at home, packed crowd hostile atmosphere, we need experience and know how. Anyone who doesn't care about the Capital One Cup is out of it. Jose clearly wants it and so do I. We have catching up in regards to honours to do but lets judge that when Jose leaves.

For all we know, if this season went with us winning nothing again would Roman keep Jose in the job? Winning breeds a winning culture. This will filter through the whole club. Promotion of youth is literally the last thing that is stopping us from becoming a superclub at the minute, and if you offered me that at the start of the season I wouldn't have said no.

[GodZola 630]

  On 17/12/2014 at 11:29, killer1257 said:

Noboby,and I mean nobody,would have critiziced Mourinho for giving just one youth player a chance against Maribor.That match was the most useless match I have ever seen.RLC for Matic would have made sense.

Actually, we hadn't qualified & no where near it so there was no chance of giving starts to youth against Maribor, it would make no sense at all, apart from when the game was won, remember we only drew at their place?!

The ideal time would of been the dead rubber against Sporting - we had already qualified as group leaders so opportunities should of been given in this match, if in any this season.

Tbh honest Madrid are not my concern, however i can understand the concern, José has already stated that there is no point in a 6m academy if we don't start producing, nonetheless winning trophies is what we all want at the end of the day and this is an ideal place to start (José second era) and I have complete faith in José to start using our youth products when they are ready, we might as u say see a few in the FA cup but I would be surprised, my view is that we will see some getting their opportunities next season, if not then perhaps do as José as said and scrap the academy!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 17/12/2014 at 11:29, killer1257 said:

Noboby,and I mean nobody,would have critiziced Mourinho for giving just one youth player a chance against Maribor.That match was the most useless match I have ever seen.RLC for Matic would have made sense.

The same Maribor we drew against?

[lionsden 4,689]

All this could have been avoided had jose not made a ceremony and big deal out handing rlc his debut only to give him 8 minutes in a meaningless game. It reopened the debate about his and the club's record with youth development. That pre match press conf and post match interview, a clear PR stunt, were so cringeworthy, it motivated gary neville to write a fantastic article about youth development.

[killer1257 3,282]

  On 17/12/2014 at 12:23, CHOULO19 said:

The same Maribor we drew against?

Sorry,I meant Sporting lisbon

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Can I just say, this has been quite an interesting & civilised debate.. Nice to see TC is capable of it

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 17/12/2014 at 11:29, CHOULO19 said:

I'm sorry, but where is exactly is the reasoning for this coming from? You're using this as fact when it is far from it.

Last night, we something very close to our best XI (only Mikel was arguably one of the 'fringe' players after Zouma was subbed off as Luis and Drogba are very much regulars) and we were looking in trouble until the ref decided to wrongly send off a Derby player.

Yes, we managed the game well and made it look fairly comfortable most of the times but that was a close game. Derby played very well and made it difficult for us, as we all knew they would. How exactly do you conclude that we would still have won had a couple of first-teamers been replaced by inexperience youth players?

For me, the way the game panned out and level at which Derby played only confirms that Jose was 100% right to start a very strong team.

  On 17/12/2014 at 12:02, Stats said:

I am one who always voices an opinion on the lack of opportunites for the young ones and I stated that RLC should have been given more minutes against Sporting and the likes of Baker should have played against Shrewsbury etc. But yesterday was not the one. Going into an away game against arguably the best team in the Championship who are playing their best team, there is always a chance of a giant-killing. If were at home then possibly more reason but this is the QF stage and we are serious about winning it. Boga and RLC are top talents but they have never started a competitive fixture before. To throw them into an 11 against a team like Derby is very risky. You understood why RLC did not start the game against Sporting etc but for this game you are surprised that he did not play any of the youngsters. Sporting Lisbon if anything would have been the best game to start the likes of RLC and Boga. A game where only pride was at stake and we were at home.

Going to Derby is not the ideal place to just throw around 3 youngsters in the first team. Ake less so because he has more first team experience however he has just recovering an inury but Derby is a very tough game. Although the COC is not the most prestigious trophy, with where we are now and considering the teams left in the competition I and everyone else I assume would be quite annoyed if we did not go on and win it considering the last time we won the trophy was in 2007. If we played 3 youngsters in the starting 11 and we went out we would be regretting that if we played a stronger team we might have just gone through. You can see while we deserved it yesterday, it was no easy game despite a very strong 11 out there.

I wasn't only talking about the Derby game to be honest, it was more of a general statement to reflect the opportunities that could've been given to them over the course of the season, should've made that a bit clearer.

You can't tell me a side like this (for example) don't have the capabilities to beat the likes of Derby:

Cech

Azpi - Zouma - JT - Luis

Matic - RLC

Fabregas

Boga - Drogba - Hazard

These kids are talented, yes they aren't experienced and yes it's a risk but when playing these youths that's what you have to expect. It's a risk-reward thing. So what if the Derby game was pretty tough? Isn't that why we surround these youngsters with plenty of experience? If we can't trust these in a situation like Derby in the COC QF or even a dead rubber match like the Sporting one, when will we ever trust them? How will they ever get 'that' experience? You can't tell me for certain that someone like Boga would've definitely performed more negatively than Schurrle who was pretty awful apart from his goal.

@ CHOULO19 - how exactly have you concluded that if we played an XI similar to the one above that we definitely would've lost against Derby? I'm not buying it sorry. The integration from the academy this season has been very poor and could've been a lot better, it's my only real gripe with Jose this season. I understand that he's a winner and that he wants to win it all but giving the likes of RLC and Boga, who are extremely talented, a chance whilst trying to achieve that shouldn't be too difficult IMO.

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 17/12/2014 at 11:34, Alex said:

The only reason the likes of LvG and Wenger promote youth is because either the rest of their squad is injured, or the rest of their squad is shit. Would Wilson, McNair, Blackett and company play if all of their regular first-teamers were fit? Not a chance in hell. Wilson possibly, but that kid has a big future ahead of him.

Explain why LvG started Wilson, in a massive PREMIER LEAGUE match against Liverpool, ahead of a fit Falcao? That would never happen here, even though we have bigger talents. LvG has just been in his job for a few months and is already showing confidence in some youth players, showing them if the seniors aren't performing that they'll have a chance.

But that won't happen here, not even in a dead rubber match like the Sporting game or Derby in the COC.

[Shane 2,275]

  On 17/12/2014 at 14:50, The Skipper said:

I wasn't only talking about the Derby game to be honest, it was more of a general statement to reflect the opportunities that could've been given to them over the course of the season, should've made that a bit clearer.

You can't tell me a side like this (for example) don't have the capabilities to beat the likes of Derby:

Cech

Azpi - Zouma - JT - Luis

Matic - RLC

Fabregas

Boga - Drogba - Hazard

These kids are talented, yes they aren't experienced and yes it's a risk but when playing these youths that's what you have to expect. It's a risk-reward thing. So what if the Derby game was pretty tough? Isn't that why we surround these youngsters with plenty of experience? If we can't trust these in a situation like Derby in the COC QF or even w dead rubber match like the Sporting one, when will we ever trust them? How will they ever get 'that' experience? You can't tell me for certain that someone like Boga would've definitely performed more negatively than Schurrle who was pretty awful apart from his goal.

@ CHOULO19 - how exactly have you concluded that if we played an XI similar to the one above that we definitely would've lost against Derby? I'm not buying it sorry. The integration from the academy this season has been very poor and could've been a lot better, it's my only real gripe with Jose this season. I understand that he's a winner and that he wants to win it all but giving the likes of RLC and Boga, who are extremely talented, a chance whilst trying to achieve that shouldn't be too difficult IMO.

Because Mikel and Schurrle would have been outraged that in one of the few chances they get to start and put in a claim that young players that don't train with the first team squad and are playing regular football with the U21s and Youth sides. Granted its at a lower level but its still more then our fringe players get.

We need these players to be playing well and ready to come in if needed. Not feeling like they'll never break into the team or play.

[Laylabelle 9,444]

Dont see why.May be seen as a risk but its a risk that may pay off.Some of our first team players have had dodgy performances so nothing wrong with given them a chance.Can be subbed and with a chance to prove themselves see how works under pressure,Especially with the games bulding up.

Man U doing well from it and ok we arent them but they're winning games all the same.

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 17/12/2014 at 14:59, Shane said:

Because Mikel and Schurrle would have been outraged that in one of the few chances they get to start and put in a claim that young players that don't train with the first team squad and are playing regular football with the U21s and Youth sides. Granted its at a lower level but its still more then our fringe players get.

We need these players to be playing well and ready to come in if needed. Not feeling like they'll never break into the team or play.

Outraged? Really? Do you think if Jose took Mikel and Schurrle to the side and said "listen lads, today I want to give Boga and RLC a chance today in our cup game, I want you two to sit out/be ready if you're needed", that they would've been outraged? Mikel has played quite a lot over the last two weeks, Schurrle has been in and out too. It's one game. Schurrle and Mikel will have plenty of more game time to get into form and get minutes. Not buying it sorry.

[stroey 2,525]

  On 17/12/2014 at 14:56, The Skipper said:

Explain why LvG started Wilson, in a massive PREMIER LEAGUE match against Liverpool, ahead of a fit Falcao? That would never happen here, even though we have bigger talents. LvG has just been in his job for a few months and is already showing confidence in some youth players, showing them if the seniors aren't performing that they'll have a chance.

But that won't happen here, not even in a dead rubber match like the Sporting game or Derby in the COC.

Lvg recently said Falcao can only play 20 minutes per game (not sure if he's fully recovered), maybe that's why he started Wilson.