The Mourinho Thread

[MHL 47 378]

Any particular reason? Should he be replaced?

As demonstrated previously, his over promotion beyond his abilities, his gaining of the role in a nefarious way.

If he been seen as a success then so would we, at the moment at a board and management level we're a public laughing stock and its becoming more justified.

Let's see now, if it were a choice a Technical Director who's no proven record of any success of any kind or arguably the most talented manager in the world - it's such a no-brainier it doesn't warrant discussion.

Very often you seem to defend him beyond what I'd say is reasonable, why? Do you have personal knowledge of his role, if so, if you'd explain it in detail we'd maybe begin to understand what he does.

With what's in the public domain and from a few things said to me by an employee at the club, it's a 'white elephant' of a role and appointment.

[The only place to be 11,313]

As demonstrated previously, his over promotion beyond his abilities, his gaining of the role in a nefarious way.

It wasn't demonstrated - it was argued. In what way did he gain his role 'nefariously'? He seems to have worked his way up through the club which has always been a good thing in our culture.

If he been seen as a success then so would we, at the moment at a board and management level we're a public laughing stock and its becoming more justified.

And again I've demonstrated....sorry, argued that many of the problems came before him.

Let's see now, if it were a choice a Technical Director who's no proven record of any success of any kind or arguably the most talented manager in the world - it's such a no-brainier it doesn't warrant discussion.

A manager we've already sacked, who doesn't stay at clubs for too long. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't fire Emenalo but we have to look at the long-term of our club which we didn't do for the first 8 years of Roman's reign. Suggesting it's a no-brainer could possibly lead to a brainless decision which could further damage our future.

Very often you seem to defend him beyond what I'd say is reasonable, why? Do you have personal knowledge of his role, if so, if you'd explain it in detail we'd maybe begin to understand what he does.

You may say it's unreasonable, I don't. At the very most I've argued that it's too soon in his tenure to judge him fairly. Throughout, you've argued respectfully - don't now cast aspersions about why I post what I do. Asking me to explain his role when you've said he's not suitable for it seems odd.

With what's in the public domain and from a few things said to me by an employee at the club, it's a 'white elephant' of a role and appointment.

With what's in the public domain and what I've heard, different people view it differently.

What we need is a consistent presence who can unify every facet of the club and get them working towards the same goals. Now you've used examples like Wenger and Ferguson for people who wouldn't accept Emenalo reigning over them, but that's because THEY are that person at their clubs. If the Mourinho hiring doesn't work out then we have another vacuum for a time.

Now if Mourinho has a plan than involves someone else in that role then that's one way of moving forward. If he's prepared to commit himself to this job for more than a few years then that's another way.

All I've asked is questions which any reasonable person who cares about the future of this club would ask. I'm sorry I don't have blind faith in Mourinho coming in and keeping our recruitment and development processes moving in the same direction they are now, but I don't trust a huge amount of people without first having an idea of what exactly they want to do.

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

Any particular reason? Should he be replaced?

Brought Rafa.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Brought Rafa.

A number of people were involved in that decision but of course he has to take his share of responsibility There have also been a number of good things that have happened whilst he has been in his position.

The question remains, why does Mourinho want to do this? Does he want someone else in there, does he plan on staying for the long-term, what happens if he gets fired?

These are all questions that have implications for this club's long-term future - that's something I care a lot about which is why NO DECISION regarding our board is a no-brainer. That doesn't seem an unreasonable view to take, and it would be very easy to get 'likes' simply by saying Gourlay OUT, Emenalo OUT, Buck OUT over and over again.

[Jase 43,479]

Even Grant is miles Better as a Head Scout than him. Bought Iva and Anelka for cheap...

But Emenalo played a part in bringing Hazard, Oscar etc......

[Kinol 337]

But Emenalo played a part in bringing Hazard, Oscar etc......

Brining in quality talents, and not the right kind of players to the needed positions, is why we right now are in the Europa League, have lost the opertunity to win a few throphies, and are in a pretty bad position in the league.

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

But Emenalo played a part in bringing Hazard, Oscar etc......

" Played A Part ".

I'm Sure that Oscar & Hazard Would join us, without Emenalo as Director...

Almost all the top teams wanted hazard.. it's not like he discovered him or something like this....

And still they cost a lot of money.

[Jase 43,479]

Brining in quality talents, and not the right kind of players to the needed positions, is why we right now are in the Europa League, have lost the opertunity to win a few throphies, and are in a pretty bad position in the league.

Yes but I did say Emenalo is perfectly innocent here? No. He still helped to bring in players that improved the team quality in areas that we were lacking previously. While failing to get a balanced team this season has given us big problems, it's not the sole reason why we are in the EL right now.

" Played A Part ".

I'm Sure that Oscar & Hazard Would join us, without Emenalo as Director...

Almost all the top teams wanted hazard.. it's not like he discovered him or something like this....

And still they cost a lot of money.

If that is the case, then the same thing can basically be said regarding your point about Grant bringing Anelka and Ivanovic in.

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

Yes but I did say Emenalo is perfectly innocent here? No. He still helped to bring in players that improved the team quality in areas that we were lacking previously. While failing to get a balanced team this season has given us big problems, it's not the sole reason why we are in the EL right now.

If that is the case, then the same thing can basically be said regarding your point about Grant bringing Anelka and Ivanovic in.

Any Top team wanted Iva? who heard about him? Anonymous Player From Lokomotiv Moscow..

And Anelka, Nice Striker From a bottom team, Bolton...

Good Prices For Both.

[Milan 17,956]

Any Top team wanted Iva? who heard about him? Anonymous Player From Lokomotiv Moscow..

And Anelka, Nice Striker From a bottom team, Bolton...

Good Prices For Both.

Actually, Ivanovic was wanted by Man United who were keeping an eye on him. I know a few United fans being pretty angry at us after that

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

Actually, Ivanovic was wanted by Man United who were keeping an eye on him. I know a few United fans being pretty angry at us after that

United? Angry? GOOD!

[Jase 43,479]

Any Top team wanted Iva? who heard about him? Anonymous Player From Lokomotiv Moscow..

So, Grant found 1 unknown player from a Russian league makes him better than Emenalo? Just like that? How certain are you that it wasn't someone else previously under the Mourinho regime that scouted Ivanovic first? Heck, even the likes of Milan, Juventus and Inter were interested in him then.

And Anelka, Nice Striker From a bottom team, Bolton...

Good Prices For Both.

Bolton, bottom team? Now yes. Back then, no. There were a Top 10 team then and most people knew about Anelka especially when he has played for so many notable clubs. As for the prices, if you want top quality players, you obviously need to pay big money for them. There's no escaping that. And if you want to talk about paying good prices for both, what about Azpi and Moses then?

[The only place to be 11,313]

" Played A Part ".

I'm Sure that Oscar & Hazard Would join us, without Emenalo as Director...

Almost all the top teams wanted hazard.. it's not like he discovered him or something like this....

And still they cost a lot of money.

Azpilicueta, Moses, De Bruyne, Omeruo, Courtois.... Bought under Emenalo's watch, but again there a numerous people involved in each deal.

This is the problem with this whole debate. People don't want to look fairly at what has happened under his watch and what was happening in the years before.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

Somebody has to pay for this. I don't care whether its Emenalo, Gourlay, Buck or all three of them combined but somebody has really got to go. They've made us a laughing stock.

[Fulham Broadway 17,311]

Few years ago Gwyn Williams had a database of 77 000 players that were 'on the radar', and CFC employed over 250 scouts.

Dont know what it is now, but doubtful its any less

[MHL 47 378]

It wasn't demonstrated - it was argued. In what way did he gain his role 'nefariously'? He seems to have worked his way up through the club which has always been a good thing in our culture.

You say tomato, I say tomato. The case made against him uses more facts than the case you make for him. Nefarious appointment by Grant in the first instance, gained appointment without any proven success in any similar role at even the level below ours.

And again I've demonstrated....sorry, argued that many of the problems came before him.

He's been here since 2007/8, again his successes are notable by their absence, which you've in the most parts not commented on.

A manager we've already sacked, who doesn't stay at clubs for too long. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't fire Emenalo but we have to look at the long-term of our club which we didn't do for the first 8 years of Roman's reign. Suggesting it's a no-brainer could possibly lead to a brainless decision which could further damage our future.

Why was he sacked? Did he dare to question the value of the non-contributors? Were the acquisitions made latterly in Jose's reign no his. If Ben Haim, Sidwell et al were bought for me, without proper consultation, I'd question it too. The sooner Emenalo goes the better, Forde too - non contributors the pair. Football people in, with ideas and who's dependence on Roman for their own wealth doesn't mean they are simply yes men, and they prevent stupid decisions such as sacking Jose in the first place.

You may say it's unreasonable, I don't. At the very most I've argued that it's too soon in his tenure to judge him fairly. Throughout, you've argued respectfully - don't now cast aspersions about why I post what I do. Asking me to explain his role when you've said he's not suitable for it seems odd.

No aspersions cast, simply a question asking you if you have any insight, that we don't. That may explain you position further. However a common tactic of people loosing an argument is to cry foul, hopefully that's not what you're doing.

With what's in the public domain and what I've heard, different people view it differently.

What we need is a consistent presence who can unify every facet of the club and get them working towards the same goals. Now you've used examples like Wenger and Ferguson for people who wouldn't accept Emenalo reigning over them, but that's because THEY are that person at their clubs. If the Mourinho hiring doesn't work out then we have another vacuum for a time.

Now if Mourinho has a plan than involves someone else in that role then that's one way of moving forward. If he's prepared to commit himself to this job for more than a few years then that's another way.

All I've asked is questions which any reasonable person who cares about the future of this club would ask. I'm sorry I don't have blind faith in Mourinho coming in and keeping our recruitment and development processes moving in the same direction they are now, but I don't trust a huge amount of people without first having an idea of what exactly they want to do.

Unifying presence you say, Emenalo you suggest. He has done nothing to command respect of the footballing side of the club and there's enough out there to suggest he's at best viewed with disdain, at worst mistrusted and held in disregard by the players and coaches. SAF and Wenger wouldn't have him around in any responsible footballing role because he's a know nothing. You wouldn't take me up on a friendly wager and I think we probably know why.

I tell you what we need right now, that's someone to bring this fragmented and broken club back together. It's broken because of Roman and his advisors poor decisions, I'm not dumb enough to suggest we bin our owner, but he needs to understand why we're where we are now and begin to correct mistakes. He's almost got to start again and that's why Jose is an ideal choice, most players and mot fans will immediately back him.

I'm no fussed much about whether he stays 3 or more seasons, just enough time to build a squad, a style and as long as he understands the foundation he builds is sustainable. If he stays longer great, if he doesn't so be it.

As for recruitment processes - I'll say it again no high degree of skill or acumen is required to recruit Hazard, Mata, Oscar, they're known quantities. If we were getting players through the system into regular first team play since Emenalo had control I'd agree, short answer is we haven't. Arguably our brightest talent - Josh, has gone backwards. Chalobah was here before Emenalo got control, I'd credit the coaches more than him for development.

He can't go quick enough for me, Jose or no Jose.

[Hutcho 8,443]

It doesn't matter what he has done... If its down to emenalo or Jose, its Jose all day long... It's not like with jose giving controls we wouldn't be able to scout young talent. We have a great quality young team... What we need is a great manager to lead the team. Jose is that man.

[Fulham Broadway 17,311]

Emanalo has a dual purpose. On the one hand he is a yes man who is ready to kowtow to any whimsical 'roy of the rovers' type transfer that is abramovichs whim. This is the key attribute

He is no threat to any fantasy signing -Rooney, Beckham that Caligula Abramovich might want, he wont challenge it.

On the other hand in his position he can take the credit for the Hazards, Oscars that a whole network of scouts have dug out.

Bottom line the bloke is a recommendation of the slimey toad yesman Grant. Nuff said.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You say tomato, I say tomato. The case made against him uses more facts than the case you make for him. Nefarious appointment by Grant in the first instance, gained appointment without any proven success in any similar role at even the level below ours.

More points? Did you count them because I sure haven't. I also think the word 'nefarious' is unfair and I've pointed out before that Begiristain also came into his position without any experience at coaching or scouting level. But I'm sure you know full well that football is very much a 'who you know' business at times. Did Gullit have experience? Did Vialli have experience? Let's be fair and judge him by the same standards we apply to others.

He's been here since 2007/8, again his successes are notable by their absence, which you've in the most parts not commented on.

He's been in his current position since 2011, which is why I don't give him much credit for the youth team's success.

Why was he sacked? Did he dare to question the value of the non-contributors? Were the acquisitions made latterly in Jose's reign no his. If Ben Haim, Sidwell et al were bought for me, without proper consultation, I'd question it too. The sooner Emenalo goes the better, Forde too - non contributors the pair. Football people in, with ideas and who's dependence on Roman for their own wealth doesn't mean they are simply yes men, and they prevent stupid decisions such as sacking Jose in the first place.

Non-contributors yet you just asked me to define his role. You say football people in, yet Emenalo is an ex-pro who lives and breathes the game. You may argue about the level he played at or the fact he managed a girls team, but to say he isn't a football man seems a little unfair.

That's ignoring the fact that the term 'football people' is at best subjective and fairly meaningless in a grown-up conversation. You've suggested getting Pat Nevin in before when he's previous stint as a director was pretty disastrous, although I'm sure you'll say that he wasn't responsible simply by being present (which is fair).

No aspersions cast, simply a question asking you if you have any insight, that we don't. That may explain you position further. However a common tactic of people loosing an argument is to cry foul, hopefully that's not what you're doing.

I'm not crying foul. I've actually praised you for your maturity in this debate (hope that didn't sound patronising because I truly believe you want what's best for this club).

Unifying presence you say, Emenalo you suggest. He has done nothing to command respect of the footballing side of the club and there's enough out there to suggest he's at best viewed with disdain, at worst mistrusted and held in disregard by the players and coaches. SAF and Wenger wouldn't have him around in any responsible footballing role because he's a know nothing. You wouldn't take me up on a friendly wager and I think we probably know why.

Ferguson wouldn't want ANYONE around at this point. It's a completely spurious point that you keep raising, will all due respect. THEY are the consistent presence at their club. For fuck's sake, they ARE their respective clubs and if you stick on Sky Sports 2 now you can see just how that's working out for Wenger.

They can't sack him because he's so entwined in the club.

I tell you what we need right now, that's someone to bring this fragmented and broken club back together. It's broken because of Roman and his advisors poor decisions, I'm not dumb enough to suggest we bin our owner, but he needs to understand why we're where we are now and begin to correct mistakes. He's almost got to start again and that's why Jose is an ideal choice, most players and mot fans will immediately back him.

I agree that Jose will galvanise the first-team but we also have to look at everything else happening around the club. How well we do in recruitment and development of youngsters will decide what future we have. We need to give Mourinho the right eggs don't we? In that regard we're moving in the right direction.

It's also worth pointing out that we are seriously in for Mourinho - and Emenalo is part of the board, so doesn't he get any credit for that? If he's to bear the burden for the Benitez appointment then what about Mourinho's possible appointment?

I'm no fussed much about whether he stays 3 or more seasons, just enough time to build a squad, a style and as long as he understands the foundation he builds is sustainable. If he stays longer great, if he doesn't so be it.

And then who continues that legacy? This is one of the questions that needs to be asked without people's motives being questioned.

As for recruitment processes - I'll say it again no high degree of skill or acumen is required to recruit Hazard, Mata, Oscar, they're known quantities.

Azpilicueta. Omeruo. Courtois. De Bruyne.

Now I'm sure you know the main people involved in the scouting of those players but let's not pretend he's simply bought from the top table.

If we were getting players through the system into regular first team play since Emenalo had control I'd agree, short answer is we haven't. Arguably our brightest talent - Josh, has gone backwards. Chalobah was here before Emenalo got control, I'd credit the coaches more than him for development.

We have about 20 young players out on loan. Many of those are worthwhile loans, some are phenomenal (Lukaku, De Bruyne, Courtois, Chalobah) and I think he deserves some of the credit for that. Josh is years off being ready because of his physicality and, in my opinion, his mental approach to the game. He hasn't gone backwards, he simply has a different development curve to other players.

He can't go quick enough for me, Jose or no Jose.

Fair enough. But still the questions remain - do we replace him and if we do, who with? Mourinho has been a short-term option at every club he's been at. I intend on supporting this club in 4 years time and I'm sure you do to - what happens then?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Emanalo has a dual purpose. On the one hand he is a yes man who is ready to kowtow to any whimsical 'roy of the rovers' type transfer that is abramovichs whim. This is the key attribute

He is no threat to any fantasy signing -Rooney, Beckham that Caligula Abramovich might want, he wont challenge it.

On the other hand in his position he can take the credit for the Hazards, Oscars that a whole network of scouts have dug out.

Bottom line the bloke is a recommendation of the slimey toad yesman Grant. Nuff said.

Really? Since Emenalo has been in his current role our transfer dealings have been geared towards acquiring younger players who have sell-on value, at competitive transfer fees and on a more sensible wage scale.

Or have I got those facts incorrect? If I have then tell me and I'll take them back. Please, I'd hate to be wrong on this point.