The Mourinho Thread

[Fernando 6,743]

Well it was, when Fergie did it with the youngsters including Beckham, Neville x2, Butt etc.

The point is, it's not about using all the kids at once. It's that, there's no point in saying "once we've won [insert trophy]". That sort of timeline is a simple cop-out because it's always the excuse for the season after. Using youth is a risk, but it's worth taking sometimes.

I think it was different a decade ago and it was demanded that we win, win and win.

The standards has been reduced a tad bit.... Just a tad. And because of FFP we can't no longer splash like crazy.

We did good this season with transfer, but how many years you expect the same results?

Every year we sell a youth for over 20 millions?

It's gonna come a time that what we have to spend and what's available ain't as good as what we have.

Biggest example is Salah. What was the purpose of spending 10 millions to get him when his slot can go to a guy from the Academy?

If mourinho is really staying here for a decade then by next season we should see something moving in this direction.

*noticed that I'm a pessimists when it comes to youth but at least I can acknowledge that thanks to FFP we might just have to use the kids in the coming seasons.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

The harm obviously is risking getting knocked out of the league cup when we have a good chance of winning it.

It's a risk gain analysis and here the risk of exhausting the players is rather low consider the circumstances I already stated and the gain is high because I do believe we will need our first XI to ensure going through.

Derby are at home, in front of their fans, for their biggest match of the season in a cup game where anything can happen. They will look to sit deep and frustrate us and hit on the counter. It's not that our bench is not better than the Derby team it's the way that the game will likely pan out that we will likely need the likes of Hazard and Fabregas and Matic...etc. to break them down.

This game should be treated the same as an away game at Burnley or Leicester or Hull in the EPL.

Not so sure we can't get through Derby with our squad players.

Zouma, Cech, Luis, Schurrle, Remy should be able to play in this game and get the right result.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Well it was, when Fergie did it with the youngsters including Beckham, Neville x2, Butt etc.

The point is, it's not about using all the kids at once. It's that, there's no point in saying "once we've won [insert trophy]". That sort of timeline is a simple cop-out because it's always the excuse for the season after. Using youth is a risk, but it's worth taking sometimes.

But they lost that season to blackburn.

And that was in 1995, it's a completely different ball game today. Youth players don't have just the established English players to compete with but some of the best players in the world. It's also a much more business/result sport and top teams are expected to win every match even though the league itself ten times more difficult.

This is especially evident in the EPL where literally any team can beat any other team. Barcelona or Real Madrid can afford to start 1-2 youngsters against any bottom half team and still win comfortably without getting out of first gear.Same with Bayern against almost any team in the Bundes Liga. In the EPL you can't afford not to play your best team against anyone because there are no easy matches.

The club will not rely on unproven youngsters. It's as simple as that. Apart from Zouma and to a lesser degree Ake, none of the youth players are part of the first team or really part of our season despite all the debuts. Those are meant first as a publicity stunt but also as a motivation for young players to keep working hard to impress, get a loan, impress there and hopefully get a place back here. Being a footballer at a top European team like Chelsea is not something that gets handed to you for some vaguely moral reason. Same goes for the players we buy in the market.

Chelsea is no longer just a football club, it's a global brand and essentially a corporation, and corporations will always attempt to maximize short-term gains.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Not so sure we can't get through Derby with our squad players.

Zouma, Cech, Luis, Schurrle, Remy should be able to play in this game and get the right result.

Yeah, Zouma will indeed start and the others are not exactly 'fringe' players as they are hardly below the level of the usual starters.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Yeah, Zouma will indeed start and the others are not exactly 'fringe' players as they are hardly below the level of the usual starters.

We need to take the opportunities to keep our regular starters fresh. I'd rest Hazard personally...

[TheOneChan95 225]

If that was true, we would've seen such results in 2006/07. It's a cop-out to say "this season is far too crucial", it's harder to retain a trophy than it is to win it on the one-off. I mentioned it yesterday, but do you recall this?

Understand the pessimism. But honestly the quality of the academy products now are definitely much better than that of the previous Mou era. Sorry I didn't see what you mentioned yesterday. I do agree that we can't win anything solely on kids but that's why Mou doesn't field a team solely full of them. They have to be introduced slowly and play games with the senior members. Look at how Ake is introduced.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

We need to take the opportunities to keep our regular starters fresh. I'd rest Hazard personally...

Hazard had two days off last week and was allowed to travel with his family when he was rested for Sporting and he'll have another two days off tomorrow and Thursday with the rest of the team since our next match is Monday. I think we can afford to play him tonight without risking exhaustion.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Hazard had two days off last week and was allowed to travel with his family when he was rested for Sporting and he'll have another two days off tomorrow and Thursday with the rest of the team since our next match is Monday. I think we can afford to play him tonight without risking exhaustion.

Its not so much his fitness as it is giving minutes to people who haven't received much this season. We don't need him to play this game and those types of games are few and far between.

Give Schurrle a chance to find his form before he's thrust into the holiday season without much actual game time.

[Barbara 15,149]

Because if we fielded a team with Baker, Boga and Solanke in it, along with Christensen, Ake, Salah and Zouma in it we'd probably lose and I imagine Jose really wants to win the Capital One Cup this season. I would have started Solanke over Drogba but Drogba needed match fitness which is paying dividends now.

RLC probably should have got more game time yes, But Jose wanted to make sure the game was won. We owed it to Schalke to play our best and put out a good side. Nearly every team who had qualified put out more or less there strongest teams.

If we want to give our academy players more time then they need to be in the squad instead of the likes of Salah, Mikel, Ramires because when we have a chance to weaken the team these players will be given the minutes first because of their fees and wages.

And it is down to managerial stability. If Jose had been here 4 or 5 years we would have seen more academy players. The young players will learn what Jose expects him to do in his position and will be ready once called up. They will know their jobs inside out and will have seen the senior squad winning on the pitch with the same work ethic and style of play.

Would people really rather us become an Arsenal? Give everyone a run out in the Capital One Cup but win fuck all every year?

best post I've read in this forum in a long while. I absolutely agree. Wanted to write something along the lines in the Derby x Chelsea match thread, but wasn't as eloquent and clear as you.

Developing youth doesn't come from a game gifted here and there, but integrating them to the squad. Mourinho is working with them this season, and getting to know them in the training sessions. I could see the ones he feels like are nearly ready staying another season but becoming part of the squad for real. If they don't, it's because Mourinho doesn't believe they're ready to be integrated - or even in more extreme cases, that they aren't cut to make it here.

Then it comes down to trust. Mourinho had no problem benching Ramos and playing Varane - who later played most games there, at age 19, and forced Arbeloa to the bench. He gave Varane the chance because he thought he was capable. It really doesn't make a difference if Varane was formed at Madrid or not, after training a while under Mourinho, Mourinho saw what he needed and promoted the kid. Mourinho is competitive and I agree with everyone who will say he isn't know as a youth promoter kind of manager. I agree he's even reluctant to use them, but he's not a clown that will give those kids 1-2 matches a season in worthless matches or matches of less importance just to shut fans up. He will give the chances for those he believes are ready to receive REAL chances, not charity.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Understand the pessimism. But honestly the quality of the academy products now are definitely much better than that of the previous Mou era. Sorry I didn't see what you mentioned yesterday. I do agree that we can't win anything solely on kids but that's why Mou doesn't field a team solely full of them. They have to be introduced slowly and play games with the senior members. Look at how Ake is introduced.

No, no you misunderstand. When Hansen said that about United, they proved him wrong and won it with kids. That's my point. We should trust them to play big games, like Wilson for United, Sterling at Liverpool, Barkley at Everton etc.

[killer1257 3,282]

Then it comes down to trust. Mourinho had no problem benching Ramos and playing Varane - who later played most games there, at age 19, and forced Arbeloa to the bench. He gave Varane the chance because he thought he was capable. It really doesn't make a difference if Varane was formed at Madrid or not, after training a while under Mourinho, Mourinho saw what he needed and promoted the kid. Mourinho is competitive and I agree with everyone who will say he isn't know as a youth promoter kind of manager. I agree he's even reluctant to use them, but he's not a clown that will give those kids 1-2 matches a season in worthless matches or matches of less importance just to shut fans up. He will give the chances for those he believes are ready to receive REAL chances, not charity.

ut becoming part of the squad for real. If they don't, it's because Mourinho doesn't believe they're ready to be integrated - or even in more extreme cases, that they aren't cut to make it here.

As far as I know,Pepe and Ramos had their differences with Mourinho,so it made very much sense to just give Varane a chance.Mou did not like neither Pepe nor Ramos and that´s why he gave Varane a chance.He did not even have other options.

Furthermore,Zidane was also a huge fan of him,which could also be an influence to Mou.You don´t mess up with one of the biggest legends in world football.

Varane is maybe the only player,who was made by Mou.Maybe,he will stay the only one for the next ten years.

If we can´t manage to play one youth player in a match against a championchip team,we are just wasting the money of the academy.Just close it.

Mou is not the kind of manager,who gives young people a chance.He did not even play RLC from the beginning against maribor,in the most useless game of the season.

Bayern started Gaudino and gave 2 other kids a chance,so why can´t Chelsea once in the Abramovich era just give a kid a chance.

[Barbara 15,149]

As far as I know,Pepe and Ramos had their differences with Mourinho,so it made very much sense to just give Varane a chance.Mou did not like neither Pepe nor Ramos and that´s why he gave Varane a chance.He did not even have other options.

Furthermore,Zidane was also a huge fan of him,which could also be an influence to Mou.You don´t mess up with one of the biggest legends in world football.

Varane is maybe the only player,who was made by Mou.Maybe,he will stay the only one for the next ten years.

If we can´t manage to play one youth player in a match against a championchip team,we are just wasting the money of the academy.Just close it.

Mou is not the kind of manager,who gives young people a chance.He did not even play RLC from the beginning against maribor,in the most useless game of the season.

Bayern started Gaudino and gave 2 other kids a chance,so why can´t Chelsea once in the Abramovich era just give a kid a chance.

First of all, Ramos has been dropped a couple of matches for Varane, but was quickly reintegrated to the team and Mourinho played him throughout the last season, despite their differences. The Varane episode happened way before he lost the dressing room and some speculated that it fueled the problems - along with dropping Iker.

Second, Pepe and Mourinho don't have a problem, they had a problem at some point, but he was also played, as I said, later who lost his position was Arbeloa.

Third, Mourinho will never be influenced by whoever. And Perez gave him full reign to do whatever he wanted.

So get your facts correct. Despite having issues with Ramos and Iker, Mourinho continued playing both, Iker on UCL and Ramos in all competitions.

The lack of respect for Mourinho in some posts here is abysmal. He's a PROFESSIONAL, not you or me. He doesn't behave like an amateur and couch-managers. He won't drop a player simply because he doesn't like him on a personal level. Seriously, some posts here the last few weeks - since the slightest crisis started - are shameful. If the team is unbeaten, leading the league by 8 points, some people don't post and others are completely elated and maybe too positive. We draw and lose a couple of matches and then the posts criticizing everything pile up. I think a lot of criticism is rightful - such us the lack of rotation, some decisions, the way the team regressed or how we came back to bad finishing. But some things, like saying Mourinho chose to play a 19yo because he didn't like the regulars, or turning Costa into an average striker, or saying Mourinho will close our academy, are ridiculous. Unbelievable, people, unbelievable.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Hazard had two days off last week and was allowed to travel with his family when he was rested for Sporting and he'll have another two days off tomorrow and Thursday with the rest of the team since our next match is Monday. I think we can afford to play him tonight without risking exhaustion.

Always nice to see him score though!

[killer1257 3,282]

First of all, Ramos has been dropped a couple of matches for Varane, but was quickly reintegrated to the team and Mourinho played him throughout the last season, despite their differences. The Varane episode happened way before he lost the dressing room and some speculated that it fueled the problems - along with dropping Iker.

Second, Pepe and Mourinho don't have a problem, they had a problem at some point, but he was also played, as I said, later who lost his position was Arbeloa.

Third, Mourinho will never be influenced by whoever. And Perez gave him full reign to do whatever he wanted.

So get your facts correct. Despite having issues with Ramos and Iker, Mourinho continued playing both, Iker on UCL and Ramos in all competitions.

The lack of respect for Mourinho in some posts here is abysmal. He's a PROFESSIONAL, not you or me. He doesn't behave like an amateur and couch-managers. He won't drop a player simply because he doesn't like him on a personal level. Seriously, some posts here the last few weeks - since the slightest crisis started - are shameful. If the team is unbeaten, leading the league by 8 points, some people don't post and others are completely elated and maybe too positive. We draw and lose a couple of matches and then the posts criticizing everything pile up. I think a lot of criticism is rightful - such us the lack of rotation, some decisions, the way the team regressed or how we came back to bad finishing. But some things, like saying Mourinho chose to play a 19yo because he didn't like the regulars, or turning Costa into an average striker, or saying Mourinho will close our academy, are ridiculous. Unbelievable, people, unbelievable.

I just looked some startiing line ups up.When Varane played as a centre back ,his partner were Ramos or Pepe.Arbeloa or Essien played as right back,while Ramos just only played a few times as a RB.Most of the times,it was Marcelo/Coentrao,Varane,Ramos/Pepe,Essien/Arbeloa.Ramos did not play that much as a RB.Also,in the last 8 matches,Ramos was not even on the bench,which is weird because he was not injured,according to my informations.

I never said that anyone was benched for Varane.I just said that Varane was given a chance because Mou did not like Pepe or Ramos.He just rotated between Pepe and Ramos.In general,there was very much rotation in the back 4

I think everyone loves Mou,but his decisions sometimes are not that great.We will not win the PL,if Hazard has to play every match.Why did he buy Salah?A youth player was more suitable of the salah role.

[stroey 2,525]

http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/capital-one-cup/9609478/mourinho-praises-his-team

Post match Derby

[GodZola 630]

Whilst I concur with the majority that 'fringe and youth' should take precedence in this competition (I'd have Ake ahead of Mikel in any game!) I think that most are missing the bigger picture here.

First time round José wanted to win this competition to get the players in a winning mentality to lead them on to bigger thing's, whilst we have some players who are habitual winners, José wants to mould 'his 2014 squad' to get that winning mentality, and what better way to start than by winning a trophy before the big 2 get in to the closing stage's?

I believe this season unlike last is about starting to obtain some of the objectives that were agreed by Roman & José when they sat down for the long haul.

I hope next season we will see a change with some of the promising youth Jose has earmarked gaining experience to set the wheels in motion with the academy.

Lastly tiredness or fatigue are all in the mind, there's no better manager to get the most of players in terms of psychology........

[mikeholiday 209]

Not so sure about that, especially after all the investment in the youth setup, and our last CL game was meaningless.

Think Jose jugded it important that we win that game and convincingly. Sporting had everything to play for in that game. So maybe too much risk to the team's confidence if we lose it after the loss to Newcastle.

[TheOneChan95 225]

No, no you misunderstand. When Hansen said that about United, they proved him wrong and won it with kids. That's my point. We should trust them to play big games, like Wilson for United, Sterling at Liverpool, Barkley at Everton etc.

Ah my apologies then. But surely playing too many kids is a radical choice at this point of time? Should we drop all 3 strikers for Solanke? Sell salah and Oscar to introduce Boga and Baker? We are still top of the table and only have 1 loss all so far. Our current first team is loaded with talent and very well balanced. Most are fit and lots of them can play multiple positions. Currently we should only gradually introduce youth into our squad or risk something like what United faced at MK Dons.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Ah my apologies then. But surely playing too many kids is a radical choice at this point of time? Should we drop all 3 strikers for Solanke? Sell salah and Oscar to introduce Boga and Baker? We are still top of the table and only have 1 loss all so far. Our current first team is loaded with talent and very well balanced. Most are fit and lots of them can play multiple positions. Currently we should only gradually introduce youth into our squad or risk something like what United faced at MK Dons.

Of course the radical approach isn't wise, no-one here is suggesting that should be adopted. The examples I chose were intentional, they were 1 youth-promoted player alongside the senior players. Solanke is too raw right now to lead the line.. But it's much easier to allow RLC & Boga exposure in our first team because they'll be surrounded by senior players. 8 minutes for a lad, in a dead rubber match, where we were always on top, is just embarrassing. Particularly when Mourinho's expressly mentioned these guys all season.

[TheOneChan95 225]

Of course the radical approach isn't wise, no-one here is suggesting that should be adopted. The examples I chose were intentional, they were 1 youth-promoted player alongside the senior players. Solanke is too raw right now to lead the line.. But it's much easier to allow RLC & Boga exposure in our first team because they'll be surrounded by senior players. 8 minutes for a lad, in a dead rubber match, where we were always on top, is just embarrassing. Particularly when Mourinho's expressly mentioned these guys all season.

I do agree that the way RLC was paraded around was cringey and more youth players should have gotten a chance for a dead rubber game. However I don't think Mou does things without a reason. IIRC we were finally playing 2 natural full backs and both wingers were not inverted in a 433. I actually didn't watch the match cause I was asleep (do excuse me it's 345am here and it's a dead rubber after all) but surely those changes have a major impact on the way we play? This sort of environment does allow for experimentation and Mou opts to use it as tactical practice for a potential option later on in a season. If it pays off I won't really complain.