Closed Norwich v Chelsea

[Barbara 15,149]

we were 0-1 down when torres was playing in the first half. we won the match 2-1 with lukaku on the pitch, with lukaku grabbing the winner. and somehow u r using that against lukaku.

the real match, lukaku was poor. but i dont think u can even count RM for your argument. your argument is he struggles with teams that play DEEP. except for barca, i dont think any defensive plays higher. and in that match, he struggled to link up with eden and oscar. and dont forget it was lamps' first pre-season match and we were struggling badly in the first half.

against ac milan, lukaku played the 2nd half when we were 1-0 up. i would like to jog your memory here a little. the 2nd half was totally open. with schurlle scoring in extra-time but missing some absolute sitters on the way. lukaku was pretty decent. and again, he played when we were countering.

against inter milan lukaku was real good. i remember him hitting the post and creating chances. i dont know what u meant when u said he did NOTHING. we probably watched a lot of different games.

as for the belgium argument, let me get this straight, we should not use lukaku's stats and performances for wba and everton but his substitute performance for belgium when he replaces benteke is a valid argument!!! seriously dont think thats fair.

we can agree to disagree, but honestly speaking i dont mind agreeing with something that i disagree with IF i am actually wrong. i seriously doubt that is the case here. we are sending lukaku on loan to see if he has what it takes to lead a line, be the no.1 striker (and to develop/improve). and when he is showing us that he can score goals and actually win matches for a team, we are simply discrediting his work by saying "its not the same". then tell me what is the point of the loan itself? then just let him play for our under21/reserves team because they will play as many matches as everton would in a season (38 +1 carling cup+ 3? fa cup) + he can play all our carling cup, fa cup and ucl dead rubber matches.

so you think some defender pushing his shot to the goal when it would actually go wide is actually justifiable?

I guess I don't need to read the rest, but I'll do it anyway...

my argument is good defenses, with players behind the ball. RM defends with tons of players because everyone, except Ronaldo, is committed with work-rate and defending responsibilities because that's how Mourinho molded the team and Carlo didn't do many chances at that point. There's a difference between many players behind the ball, deep defenses and parking the bus - those are three different things and I think Lukaku struggles with all three. Why I can't consider this in NT football I have no idea as teams playing in Belgium totally park the bus or at least play deep. What does it have to do with opponents keeping their legs open for Everton and West Brom? Did you even think before questioning that? I'm talking about tactics, not how big or small a team is or if it's international or clubs footie. I don't care if he comes from the bench or starts playing (I did watch the match he started from the beginning for Belgium and he was crap), my point is he can't handle that situation. If you think otherwise, then showcase matches where he faced any of those three situations and scored goals. I'll be waiting for the vids preferably.

If you don't think my arguments are reasonable enough, then good for you, mate. Agreeing to disagree has nothing to do with admitting defeat or being wrong, just admitting that someone else has a right to have a mind of their own.

[didierforever 7,349]

so you think some defender pushing his shot to the goal when it would actually go wide is actually justifiable?

I guess I don't need to read the rest, but I'll do it anyway...

my argument is good defenses, with players behind the ball. RM defends with tons of players because everyone, except Ronaldo, is committed with work-rate and defending responsibilities because that's how Mourinho molded the team and Carlo didn't do many chances at that point. There's a difference between many players behind the ball, deep defenses and parking the bus - those are three different things and I think Lukaku struggles with all three. Why I can't consider this in NT football I have no idea as teams playing in Belgium totally park the bus or at least play deep. What does it have to do with opponents keeping their legs open for Everton and West Brom? Did you even think before questioning that? I'm talking about tactics, not how big or small a team is or if it's international or clubs footie. I don't care if he comes from the bench or starts playing (I did watch the match he started from the beginning for Belgium and he was crap), my point is he can't handle that situation. If you think otherwise, then showcase matches where he faced any of those three situations and scored goals. I'll be waiting for the vids preferably.

If you don't think my arguments are reasonable enough, then good for you, mate. Agreeing to disagree has nothing to do with admitting defeat or being wrong, just admitting that someone else has a right to have a mind of their own.

he scored a goal against roma. tell me how many of them has torres, etoo and ba done that this season? tell me why could not they do that. when u r talking about a striker u have to be taking first into the consideration his goal. look at DD day before yesterday. his overall performance -POOR. but got a goal, got an assist. and gala went home with a point from turin. so yes, that is justified. deflection or no deflection.

RM defended with numbers against us in that preseason???really?? do u remember the rambo goal? it was a pre-season match with pretty much their back 4 against our top 3.so lets not get ahead ourselves here.

so now he cant handle the situation? ehhh??? because u saw him not play well in an international match, that is just great.well most belgians think kdb is better than hazard, lets agree to that too.

did u see the newcastle game? what tactic do u think newcastle came with against everton in goodison park?but they were ripped apart by this guy, and his link up play with mirallas and barkley.

and how conveniently u choose to ignore the milans-argument.

simply not worth the time and effort

[Barbara 15,149]

he scored a goal against roma. tell me how many of them has torres, etoo and ba done that this season? tell me why could not they do that. when u r talking about a striker u have to be taking first into the consideration his goal. look at DD day before yesterday. his overall performance -POOR. but got a goal, got an assist. and gala went home with a point from turin. so yes, that is justified. deflection or no deflection.

RM defended with numbers against us in that preseason???really?? do u remember the rambo goal? it was a pre-season match with pretty much their back 4 against our top 3.so lets not get ahead ourselves here.

so now he cant handle the situation? ehhh??? because u saw him not play well in an international match, that is just great.well most belgians think kdb is better than hazard, lets agree to that too.

did u see the newcastle game? what tactic do u think newcastle came with against everton in goodison park?but they were ripped apart by this guy, and his link up play with mirallas and barkley.

and how conveniently u choose to ignore the milans-argument.

simply not worth the time and effort

for one Eto'o and Fernando didn't have the luck to have an opponent pushing to the net a ball that was clearly going wide. Fernando actually got unlucky with some good saves from goalies in two or three occasions.

Dude, I'm tired of this argument. You want to believe Lukaku would have solved or even improved our striker's issues? great. I don't believe it and I guess I'm entitled to have whatever opinion I want in the matter - stats or not.

what I did see in the Newcastle game was the defense defending pathetically in both of his goals, but that doesn't count, does it?

I do give full credit on that assist. I didn't expect him to do something like that... and as I said, I'm not interested in this argument at all. I'm too Mourinho-like. If we're going to discuss any Chelsea player, then let's do it about players that actually play for Chelsea.

The only interest I have in the loaned guys is for them to do well and come better players for us. So sorry to cut the discussion short.

[didierforever 7,349]

for one Eto'o and Fernando didn't have the luck to have an opponent pushing their shots to the net a ball that was clearly going wide. Fernando actually got unlucky with some good saves from goalies in two or three occasions.

Dude, I'm tired of this argument. You want to believe Lukaku would have solved or even improved our striker's issues? great. I don't believe it and I guess I'm entitled to have whatever opinion I want in the matter - stats or not.

what I did see in the Newcastle game was the defense defending pathetically in both of his goals, but that doesn't count, does it?

I do give full credit on that assist. I didn't expect him to do something like that... and as I said, I'm not interested in this argument at all. I'm too Mourinho-like. If we're going to discuss any Chelsea player, then let's do it about players that actually play for Chelsea.

The only interest I have in the loaned guys is for them to do well and come better players for us. So sorry to cut the discussion short.

better lucky than sorry and crying. FT must be doing something wrong when everything he throws at the goalie is saved.

the argument was not even that. u need to go and read what i wrote. i dont believe lukaku would have solved our problems magically. but i do want the credit to be given where it is due. lukaku scores a header and wins the game for everton and some1 takes a dig at him saying "born to play for mid-table teams". and today he took another one, so that is when i quoted stats, and that is why i am saying, what use is his loan if what he does there does not mean anything?

as for the other argument about lukaku struggling against solid defences, if torres can have 2 and a half year, ba can have half a year, and etoo can have 4 starts, then lukaku atleast warrants one professional start for CFC before we start saying he cant do this or do that.

[Barbara 15,149]

better lucky than sorry and crying. FT must be doing something wrong when everything he throws at the goalie is saved.

the argument was not even that. u need to go and read what i wrote. i dont believe lukaku would have solved our problems magically. but i do want the credit to be given where it is due. lukaku scores a header and wins the game for everton and some1 takes a dig at him saying "born to play for mid-table teams". and today he took another one, so that is when i quoted stats, and that is why i am saying, what use is his loan if what he does there does not mean anything?

as for the other argument about lukaku struggling against solid defences, if torres can have 2 and a half year, ba can have half a year, and etoo can have 4 starts, then lukaku atleast warrants one professional start for CFC before we start saying he cant do this or do that.

I think we loaned him because we couldn't loan Ba... I think the idea was to keep him, but keeping 4 strikers would have only caused even less playing time for them.

Also, sorry for misunderstanding your argument then

[didierforever 7,349]

I think we loaned him because we couldn't loan Ba... I think the idea was to keep him, but keeping 4 strikers would have only caused even less playing time for them.

Also, sorry for misunderstanding your argument then

i know, for that u can go to otamendi thread and read me explaining the exact same loan thing to BUSHMAN.

i m not challenging his loan. i am challenging the fact that people are discrediting everything he does by sayin its just everton. the point of the loan is to see if he can handle the pressure, and lead the line up of a top7 team. he has done that, and done that winderfully. hugely responsible for 6 points everton got from their last 2 games. i just want credit to be given where its due.

[The_Flash 1,144]

We really in my opinion should have Lukaku) and put Ba out, I don't think Moses was wonderful but I think he at least deserved a go.

[Pizy 17,860]

It would've been extremely dumb to loan Ba to Arsenal. With the service of Özil he'd have been banging them in. Moses was never gonna be more than a seldom used sub in lesser competitions. Couldn't see him dislodging any of our current crop.

[OneMoSalah 8,614]

It would've been extremely dumb to loan Ba to Arsenal. With the service of Özil he'd have been banging them in. Moses was never gonna be more than a seldom used sub in lesser competitions. Couldn't see him dislodging any of our current crop.

True but hes the only natural right winger we have. Schurrle is a left winger, even though he can play on the right.

Anyway is Hazard going to be missing this game? He shouldn't start anyway, Schurrle was immense vs Steaua. Mata on the right and Oscar/KdB in the middle.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

It would've been extremely dumb to loan Ba to Arsenal. With the service of Özil he'd have been banging them in. Moses was never gonna be more than a seldom used sub in lesser competitions. Couldn't see him dislodging any of our current crop.

As you said, we wanted to loan Ba to arsenal. But they went for ozil, so giving them ba would have been stupidity of the highest level.

We were now stuck with 4 strikers while playing only one striker, so lukaku's chances of playing slimmed down to 1/4. No other person wanted to loan Ba, so for lukaku's slim chances of surpassing benteke for the world cup, he needed to play more and not hope. From here, it was a logical option.

I am very confident that lukaku also opted for this decision personally.

So people should stop blasting the board for this.

[Jase 43,479]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ngxUWc_D0

[The only place to be 11,313]

In Eto'o, Torres and Ba we have loads of experience and players who have scored and played in the biggest games football can offer.

Some people want strikers who can score goals, others want strikers who can sit around the camp fire and regale you with stories of when they won the Champions League....maybe even show you their medals.

Who here doesn't enjoy watching Eto'o play and thinking 'Three years ago he would have scored that'.....worth the price of admission on it's own.

[kobematabryant 400]

Damn....I was very confident about this game until I watched the video from my boy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di8R9JelSFs

Apparently, we'll lose 1-0....now let's hope it's not right

[Hutcho 8,443]

Should win. But it will be tough. Like most games. We need a striker to step up. Hopefully torres will be that man in the future. But for this game Eto'o needs to make a mark.

I Would go

Azpi Luiz Terry Cole

Oscar mikel

Willian mata Schurrle

Eto'o

[English Freak 456]

Should win. But it will be tough. Like most games. We need a striker to step up. Hopefully torres will be that man in the future. But for this game Eto'o needs to make a mark.

I Would go

Azpi Luiz Terry Cole

Oscar mikel

Willian mata Schurrle

Eto'o

I'm expecting very similar team to the one that played in Romania. Only change: Cahill for Luiz

[The only place to be 11,313]

Should win. But it will be tough. Like most games. We need a striker to step up. Hopefully torres will be that man in the future. But for this game Eto'o needs to make a mark.

I Would go

Azpi Luiz Terry Cole

Oscar mikel

Willian mata Schurrle

Eto'o

Dropping our three best performers this season (Ivanovic, Oscar and Ramires) seems a little extreme for a tough game.

I'm expecting very similar team to the one that played in Romania. Only change: Cahill for Luiz

I wouldn't even make that change. Just replace Torres with Eto'o and let the guys start to build some chemistry.

[Tomo 21,681]

This. I hate how people believe he cannot hit it at us just because he scores at inferior teams and there is theory that he will struggle at us because teams defend deep. Look when Welbeck was loaned out to Sunderland 3 seasons ago. He done well in that season and only got 6 goals that season before he got injured but clearly done enough to convince Fergie to make him part of his plans the following season and he became an integral part of United's team, getting into double figures. I am sure teams defend deep against United right? Yet did that stop Welbeck from scoring? No. I hope he has another excellent season at Everton but he really should be here. Compare what Lukaku done at WBA and what Welbeck done at Sunderland. Lukaku scored much more and there would be no doubt once in his stride he would get goals here.

United didn't stick him as #1 and pin their entire season hopes on him, he was and still is a squad player. If that was all Lukaku could be he would have probably been playing the Ba role this season.

Lukaku has a much higher ceiling than that.

[didierforever 7,349]

Should win. But it will be tough. Like most games. We need a striker to step up. Hopefully torres will be that man in the future. But for this game Eto'o needs to make a mark.

I Would go

Azpi Luiz Terry Cole

Oscar mikel

Willian mata Schurrle

Eto'o

no rambo? i think u have left out 2 out 4 definite starters for almost all of mou's PL games (rambo, iva, oscar, cech)