Closed Norwich v Chelsea

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

No offense, but Courtois is ready to play for any side in the world. The only thing that keeps him from Stamford Bridge is the legend called Cech.

As far as Lukaku is concerned, there's a reason why the majority of our fanbase and nearly all the pundits find it a ludicrous loan deal. Is he ready to lead the line for Chelsea? Not really..

Is he the best choice we have? Definately.

It's hardly nonsense, it's called logic.

None taken, and that's the point. UNTIL HE IS TO BE THE GUY(he isn't because Cech is the guy)

Again if he's not ready to lead the line than he's best to go out on loan... Simple. and I don't give two shits what pundits and fans think, clearly the opinion that matters is Jose's and he's made the decision he's not ready. In Eto'o, Torres and Ba we have loads of experience and players who have scored and played in the biggest games football can offer. Lukaku is physically mature but mentally immature and its for that reason he's not at the club.

[Weckerz 3,781]

None taken, and that's the point. UNTIL HE IS TO BE THE GUY(he isn't because Cech is the guy)

Again if he's not ready to lead the line than he's best to go out on loan... Simple. and I don't give two shits what pundits and fans think, clearly the opinion that matters is Jose's and he's made the decision he's not ready. In Eto'o, Torres and Ba we have loads of experience and players who have scored and played in the biggest games football can offer. Lukaku is physically mature but mentally immature and its for that reason he's not at the club.

Why do you say he's mentally immature? He's exactly the opposite. It's some of his abilities on the pitch that needs improvement, not his head.

I respect your opinion but Eto'o is a has-been, Torres is Torres and Ba is not good enough. Lukaku would have made us a stronger team to challenge for the title and in the end that is all that matters to me.

[Barbara 15,149]

how do u know??? he has played 3 games with us this season, all as subs.lets take a look, at what point he has played for us

2-0 against hull city, when hull city were actually looking better than us except for the first 15 minutes.

2-1 against villa, brought in to waste time and counter rather than break a defence that was playing deep.

2-1 against bayern munich with 10 men and barely even looking to attack.

if u making this statement on his pre-season performance, then he has 5 goals when we were trying to break down teams compared to i think 0 each from torres and ba.

so how r u and most of the people here, making that assumption is beyond me.

yeah I meant that when facing defensive teams (although they don't park the bus, just defend the Italian style) like Inter, Milan (against Roma he did nothing and if his shot doesn't touch the opponent, the goal wouldn't have happened because the ball was clearly going to go wide, even though he was 2m from the goal and unmarked) and a well organized defensive team like Madrid he basically did nothing. When the real test in pre-season came he had no answer to give. He has been fabulous against the Asian sides but that was it. He was even chosen as flop of the match against Madrid by goal.com...

I also watched him in Belgium a few times this season and he added nothing when he came in (and absolutely nothing at all the whole match he started, except early in the second half with a couple of plays) because at least the matches I've watched teams were well planted defensively against Belgium...

but mate, that's only my opinion, I'm stating it as a fact - which is why I said I guess

we can agree to disagree

edit: I meant I'm not stating it like a fact. I'm the 'not' eater queen

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Why do you say he's mentally immature? He's exactly the opposite. It's some of his abilities on the pitch that needs improvement, not his head.

I respect your opinion but Eto'o is a has-been, Torres is Torres and Ba is not good enough. Lukaku would have made us a stronger team to challenge for the title and in the end that is all that matters to me.

He is immature in a football sense. Fact. He hasn't had any experience at the highest competitions. We already have an extremely young team and only time will tell if Eto'o is a has-been, to be quite frank I haven't seen any evidence of it. He hasn't scored yet but everything he's doing on the pitch so far leads me to believe its only a matter of time. Torres has been brilliant to start this campaign, perhaps Jose is like the dog whisperer and has him close to what he once was? I'm starting to believe he is! Ba is the 3rd striker in a system that uses one, he can also play out wide something Lukaku can't.

[Jase 43,479]

[didierforever 7,349]

yeah I meant that when facing defensive teams (although they don't park the bus, just defend the Italian style) like Inter, Milan (against Roma he did nothing and if his shot doesn't touch the opponent, the goal wouldn't have happened because the ball was clearly going to go wide, even though he was 2m from the goal and unmarked) and a well organized defensive team like Madrid he basically did nothing. When the real test in pre-season came he had no answer to give. He has been fabulous against the Asian sides but that was it. He was even chosen as flop of the match against Madrid by goal.com...

I also watched him in Belgium a few times this season and he added nothing when he came in (and absolutely nothing at all the whole match he started, except early in the second half with a couple of plays) because at least the matches I've watched teams were well planted defensively against Belgium...

but mate, that's only my opinion, I'm stating it as a fact - which is why I said I guess

we can agree to disagree

we were 0-1 down when torres was playing in the first half. we won the match 2-1 with lukaku on the pitch, with lukaku grabbing the winner. and somehow u r using that against lukaku.

the real match, lukaku was poor. but i dont think u can even count RM for your argument. your argument is he struggles with teams that play DEEP. except for barca, i dont think any defensive plays higher. and in that match, he struggled to link up with eden and oscar. and dont forget it was lamps' first pre-season match and we were struggling badly in the first half.

against ac milan, lukaku played the 2nd half when we were 1-0 up. i would like to jog your memory here a little. the 2nd half was totally open. with schurlle scoring in extra-time but missing some absolute sitters on the way. lukaku was pretty decent. and again, he played when we were countering.

against inter milan lukaku was real good. i remember him hitting the post and creating chances. i dont know what u meant when u said he did NOTHING. we probably watched a lot of different games.

as for the belgium argument, let me get this straight, we should not use lukaku's stats and performances for wba and everton but his substitute performance for belgium when he replaces benteke is a valid argument!!! seriously dont think thats fair.

we can agree to disagree, but honestly speaking i dont mind agreeing with something that i disagree with IF i am actually wrong. i seriously doubt that is the case here. we are sending lukaku on loan to see if he has what it takes to lead a line, be the no.1 striker (and to develop/improve). and when he is showing us that he can score goals and actually win matches for a team, we are simply discrediting his work by saying "its not the same". then tell me what is the point of the loan itself? then just let him play for our under21/reserves team because they will play as many matches as everton would in a season (38 +1 carling cup+ 3? fa cup) + he can play all our carling cup, fa cup and ucl dead rubber matches.

[Korea 734]

No offence, but Courtois is ready to play for any side in the world. The only thing that keeps him from Stamford Bridge is the legend called Cech.

As far as Lukaku is concerned, there's a reason why the majority of our fanbase and nearly all the pundits find it a ludicrous loan deal. Is he ready to lead the line for Chelsea? Not really..

Is he the best choice we have? Definately.

It's hardly nonsense, it's called logic.

I disagree with your second statement, but I totally agree with TC.

I really don't think he has a future for Chelsea (lukaku). At this rate, they might just be working him up so they can sell him at a higher price... I fully expect Mourinho to go buy another CF that is in his prime or reaching it...

[Barbara 15,149]

we were 0-1 down when torres was playing in the first half. we won the match 2-1 with lukaku on the pitch, with lukaku grabbing the winner. and somehow u r using that against lukaku.

the real match, lukaku was poor. but i dont think u can even count RM for your argument. your argument is he struggles with teams that play DEEP. except for barca, i dont think any defensive plays higher. and in that match, he struggled to link up with eden and oscar. and dont forget it was lamps' first pre-season match and we were struggling badly in the first half.

against ac milan, lukaku played the 2nd half when we were 1-0 up. i would like to jog your memory here a little. the 2nd half was totally open. with schurlle scoring in extra-time but missing some absolute sitters on the way. lukaku was pretty decent. and again, he played when we were countering.

against inter milan lukaku was real good. i remember him hitting the post and creating chances. i dont know what u meant when u said he did NOTHING. we probably watched a lot of different games.

as for the belgium argument, let me get this straight, we should not use lukaku's stats and performances for wba and everton but his substitute performance for belgium when he replaces benteke is a valid argument!!! seriously dont think thats fair.

we can agree to disagree, but honestly speaking i dont mind agreeing with something that i disagree with IF i am actually wrong. i seriously doubt that is the case here. we are sending lukaku on loan to see if he has what it takes to lead a line, be the no.1 striker (and to develop/improve). and when he is showing us that he can score goals and actually win matches for a team, we are simply discrediting his work by saying "its not the same". then tell me what is the point of the loan itself? then just let him play for our under21/reserves team because they will play as many matches as everton would in a season (38 +1 carling cup+ 3? fa cup) + he can play all our carling cup, fa cup and ucl dead rubber matches.

so you think some defender pushing his shot to the goal when it would actually go wide is actually justifiable?

I guess I don't need to read the rest, but I'll do it anyway...

my argument is good defenses, with players behind the ball. RM defends with tons of players because everyone, except Ronaldo, is committed with work-rate and defending responsibilities because that's how Mourinho molded the team and Carlo didn't do many chances at that point. There's a difference between many players behind the ball, deep defenses and parking the bus - those are three different things and I think Lukaku struggles with all three. Why I can't consider this in NT football I have no idea as teams playing in Belgium totally park the bus or at least play deep. What does it have to do with opponents keeping their legs open for Everton and West Brom? Did you even think before questioning that? I'm talking about tactics, not how big or small a team is or if it's international or clubs footie. I don't care if he comes from the bench or starts playing (I did watch the match he started from the beginning for Belgium and he was crap), my point is he can't handle that situation. If you think otherwise, then showcase matches where he faced any of those three situations and scored goals. I'll be waiting for the vids preferably.

If you don't think my arguments are reasonable enough, then good for you, mate. Agreeing to disagree has nothing to do with admitting defeat or being wrong, just admitting that someone else has a right to have a mind of their own.

[didierforever 7,349]

so you think some defender pushing his shot to the goal when it would actually go wide is actually justifiable?

I guess I don't need to read the rest, but I'll do it anyway...

my argument is good defenses, with players behind the ball. RM defends with tons of players because everyone, except Ronaldo, is committed with work-rate and defending responsibilities because that's how Mourinho molded the team and Carlo didn't do many chances at that point. There's a difference between many players behind the ball, deep defenses and parking the bus - those are three different things and I think Lukaku struggles with all three. Why I can't consider this in NT football I have no idea as teams playing in Belgium totally park the bus or at least play deep. What does it have to do with opponents keeping their legs open for Everton and West Brom? Did you even think before questioning that? I'm talking about tactics, not how big or small a team is or if it's international or clubs footie. I don't care if he comes from the bench or starts playing (I did watch the match he started from the beginning for Belgium and he was crap), my point is he can't handle that situation. If you think otherwise, then showcase matches where he faced any of those three situations and scored goals. I'll be waiting for the vids preferably.

If you don't think my arguments are reasonable enough, then good for you, mate. Agreeing to disagree has nothing to do with admitting defeat or being wrong, just admitting that someone else has a right to have a mind of their own.

he scored a goal against roma. tell me how many of them has torres, etoo and ba done that this season? tell me why could not they do that. when u r talking about a striker u have to be taking first into the consideration his goal. look at DD day before yesterday. his overall performance -POOR. but got a goal, got an assist. and gala went home with a point from turin. so yes, that is justified. deflection or no deflection.

RM defended with numbers against us in that preseason???really?? do u remember the rambo goal? it was a pre-season match with pretty much their back 4 against our top 3.so lets not get ahead ourselves here.

so now he cant handle the situation? ehhh??? because u saw him not play well in an international match, that is just great.well most belgians think kdb is better than hazard, lets agree to that too.

did u see the newcastle game? what tactic do u think newcastle came with against everton in goodison park?but they were ripped apart by this guy, and his link up play with mirallas and barkley.

and how conveniently u choose to ignore the milans-argument.

simply not worth the time and effort

[Barbara 15,149]

he scored a goal against roma. tell me how many of them has torres, etoo and ba done that this season? tell me why could not they do that. when u r talking about a striker u have to be taking first into the consideration his goal. look at DD day before yesterday. his overall performance -POOR. but got a goal, got an assist. and gala went home with a point from turin. so yes, that is justified. deflection or no deflection.

RM defended with numbers against us in that preseason???really?? do u remember the rambo goal? it was a pre-season match with pretty much their back 4 against our top 3.so lets not get ahead ourselves here.

so now he cant handle the situation? ehhh??? because u saw him not play well in an international match, that is just great.well most belgians think kdb is better than hazard, lets agree to that too.

did u see the newcastle game? what tactic do u think newcastle came with against everton in goodison park?but they were ripped apart by this guy, and his link up play with mirallas and barkley.

and how conveniently u choose to ignore the milans-argument.

simply not worth the time and effort

for one Eto'o and Fernando didn't have the luck to have an opponent pushing to the net a ball that was clearly going wide. Fernando actually got unlucky with some good saves from goalies in two or three occasions.

Dude, I'm tired of this argument. You want to believe Lukaku would have solved or even improved our striker's issues? great. I don't believe it and I guess I'm entitled to have whatever opinion I want in the matter - stats or not.

what I did see in the Newcastle game was the defense defending pathetically in both of his goals, but that doesn't count, does it?

I do give full credit on that assist. I didn't expect him to do something like that... and as I said, I'm not interested in this argument at all. I'm too Mourinho-like. If we're going to discuss any Chelsea player, then let's do it about players that actually play for Chelsea.

The only interest I have in the loaned guys is for them to do well and come better players for us. So sorry to cut the discussion short.

[didierforever 7,349]

for one Eto'o and Fernando didn't have the luck to have an opponent pushing their shots to the net a ball that was clearly going wide. Fernando actually got unlucky with some good saves from goalies in two or three occasions.

Dude, I'm tired of this argument. You want to believe Lukaku would have solved or even improved our striker's issues? great. I don't believe it and I guess I'm entitled to have whatever opinion I want in the matter - stats or not.

what I did see in the Newcastle game was the defense defending pathetically in both of his goals, but that doesn't count, does it?

I do give full credit on that assist. I didn't expect him to do something like that... and as I said, I'm not interested in this argument at all. I'm too Mourinho-like. If we're going to discuss any Chelsea player, then let's do it about players that actually play for Chelsea.

The only interest I have in the loaned guys is for them to do well and come better players for us. So sorry to cut the discussion short.

better lucky than sorry and crying. FT must be doing something wrong when everything he throws at the goalie is saved.

the argument was not even that. u need to go and read what i wrote. i dont believe lukaku would have solved our problems magically. but i do want the credit to be given where it is due. lukaku scores a header and wins the game for everton and some1 takes a dig at him saying "born to play for mid-table teams". and today he took another one, so that is when i quoted stats, and that is why i am saying, what use is his loan if what he does there does not mean anything?

as for the other argument about lukaku struggling against solid defences, if torres can have 2 and a half year, ba can have half a year, and etoo can have 4 starts, then lukaku atleast warrants one professional start for CFC before we start saying he cant do this or do that.

[Barbara 15,149]

better lucky than sorry and crying. FT must be doing something wrong when everything he throws at the goalie is saved.

the argument was not even that. u need to go and read what i wrote. i dont believe lukaku would have solved our problems magically. but i do want the credit to be given where it is due. lukaku scores a header and wins the game for everton and some1 takes a dig at him saying "born to play for mid-table teams". and today he took another one, so that is when i quoted stats, and that is why i am saying, what use is his loan if what he does there does not mean anything?

as for the other argument about lukaku struggling against solid defences, if torres can have 2 and a half year, ba can have half a year, and etoo can have 4 starts, then lukaku atleast warrants one professional start for CFC before we start saying he cant do this or do that.

I think we loaned him because we couldn't loan Ba... I think the idea was to keep him, but keeping 4 strikers would have only caused even less playing time for them.

Also, sorry for misunderstanding your argument then

[didierforever 7,349]

I think we loaned him because we couldn't loan Ba... I think the idea was to keep him, but keeping 4 strikers would have only caused even less playing time for them.

Also, sorry for misunderstanding your argument then

i know, for that u can go to otamendi thread and read me explaining the exact same loan thing to BUSHMAN.

i m not challenging his loan. i am challenging the fact that people are discrediting everything he does by sayin its just everton. the point of the loan is to see if he can handle the pressure, and lead the line up of a top7 team. he has done that, and done that winderfully. hugely responsible for 6 points everton got from their last 2 games. i just want credit to be given where its due.

[The_Flash 1,144]

We really in my opinion should have Lukaku) and put Ba out, I don't think Moses was wonderful but I think he at least deserved a go.

[Pizy 18,994]

It would've been extremely dumb to loan Ba to Arsenal. With the service of Özil he'd have been banging them in. Moses was never gonna be more than a seldom used sub in lesser competitions. Couldn't see him dislodging any of our current crop.

[OneMoSalah 8,889]

It would've been extremely dumb to loan Ba to Arsenal. With the service of Özil he'd have been banging them in. Moses was never gonna be more than a seldom used sub in lesser competitions. Couldn't see him dislodging any of our current crop.

True but hes the only natural right winger we have. Schurrle is a left winger, even though he can play on the right.

Anyway is Hazard going to be missing this game? He shouldn't start anyway, Schurrle was immense vs Steaua. Mata on the right and Oscar/KdB in the middle.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

It would've been extremely dumb to loan Ba to Arsenal. With the service of Özil he'd have been banging them in. Moses was never gonna be more than a seldom used sub in lesser competitions. Couldn't see him dislodging any of our current crop.

As you said, we wanted to loan Ba to arsenal. But they went for ozil, so giving them ba would have been stupidity of the highest level.

We were now stuck with 4 strikers while playing only one striker, so lukaku's chances of playing slimmed down to 1/4. No other person wanted to loan Ba, so for lukaku's slim chances of surpassing benteke for the world cup, he needed to play more and not hope. From here, it was a logical option.

I am very confident that lukaku also opted for this decision personally.

So people should stop blasting the board for this.

[Jase 43,479]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ngxUWc_D0

[The only place to be 11,313]

In Eto'o, Torres and Ba we have loads of experience and players who have scored and played in the biggest games football can offer.

Some people want strikers who can score goals, others want strikers who can sit around the camp fire and regale you with stories of when they won the Champions League....maybe even show you their medals.

Who here doesn't enjoy watching Eto'o play and thinking 'Three years ago he would have scored that'.....worth the price of admission on it's own.

[kobematabryant 400]

Damn....I was very confident about this game until I watched the video from my boy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di8R9JelSFs

Apparently, we'll lose 1-0....now let's hope it's not right