Oscar

[olivertwist 23]

Your first post. Multiple accounting going on or something...

And your taking his post seriously.

How about the... "he is just so bad" part. If you haven't yet go read what he wrote in the mata thread.

I'm taking the "he's overrated part" seriously because I agree with that sentiment. No one would deny he performs well for the national team but until (if ever) he starts producing the goods at club level for chelsea, then that view wouldn't change. he hasn't done anything to be mentioned in the same breath as Mata and Hazard for instance. never mind the baseless claims that he WILL become one of the best players in the future.

[Hutcho 8,443]

I'm taking the "he's overrated part" seriously because I agree with that sentiment. No one would deny he performs well for the national team but until (if ever) he starts producing the goods at club level for chelsea, then that view wouldn't change. he hasn't done anything to be mentioned in the same breath as Mata and Hazard for instance. never mind the baseless claims that he WILL become one of the best players in the future.

Well that's fine. If you want to argue that then by all means. But that has nothing to do with this situation as he is clearly just trolling.

[The Skipper 20,609]

How is he overrated? I don't understand. In what context is he overrated? Please elaborate if you're going to call someone overrated, and with good reasons too please.

Most people rate Oscar as a player with a very high ceiling. I don't know how that's overrating him at all.

[olivertwist 23]

How is he overrated? I don't understand. In what context is he overrated? Please elaborate if you're going to call someone overrated, and with good reasons too please.

Most people rate Oscar as a player with a very high ceiling. I don't know how that's overrating him at all.

I believe I already made my reasons very clear in previous post. He's constantly lauded as one of the best prospects in world football and mentioned in the same breath as the likes Gotze, Hazard, Reus et al who have shown far more talent and tangibles at club level thus far.

Every time I question the claim that he has high ceiling and destined to be one of the best players in the near future, the only argument that get's thrown at me is that he's Brazilian no 10.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I believe I already made my reasons very clear in previous post. He's constantly lauded as one of the best prospects in world football and mentioned in the same breath as the likes Gotze, Hazard, Reus et al who have shown far more talent and tangibles at club level thus far.

Every time I question the claim that he has high ceiling and destined to be one of the best players in the near future, the only argument that get's thrown at me is that he's Brazilian no 10.

Let me tell you why Oscar isn't overrated at all. Gotze, Hazard and Reus have all started their careers in Europe, so it's natural you'd think they've shown (according to you) their talent more because you've been exposed by such more. Your claim that Oscar hasn't ever done anything to be mentioned in the same breath as those aforementioned is just ignorant to me, sorry. You act like playing number 10 for Brazil is not a big thing, fine, let's put that aside. What you can't put aside regarding his international appearances is that he, alongside with Neymar, is one of Brazil's best performers on a regular basis. Neymar and Oscar carry Brazil's attack. Yeah, Ronaldinho, Kaka etc. are on the wane and aren't as good as they were before but to say he was practically handed the role as Brazil's playmaker is plain ignorant. He cemented the role at a time when Ganso was considered a great talent, Kaka and Ronaldinho were still doing okay (especially the latter in Brazil), Robinho was still a very valid option, all very decent players. Even the likes of Lucas Moura and Coutinho if you're looking at people his age could not secure that spot in the team despite them all being great talents. He's Brazil's playmaker because he produces excellent performances for them, time and time again, and outshone all of the players mentioned before at the mere age of 20/21. If that doesn't make you acknowledge that he's a great talent then pity for you. You can't just discredit this argument because it's very valid.

There's a reason why the club spent ~£20m for him at a time the likes of Barcelona, Milan, Tottenham were interested in him (especially the latter, we practically nicked him from under their noses). He's been on his way as a potential world class player from a very young age - it wasn't a random impulse buy. He's been on the radar of the big clubs since the age of 17 when he made his competitive debut for Sao Paolo - another feat. You don't make your debut at 17 for a club like Sao Paolo if you aren't talented. At Internacional, despite being injured a lot, Oscar grabbed around 20 goals and 20 assists in 70 games at the age of 18-20. If that isn't phenomenal for a player of his age, performing for a big club in Brazil like that, then I don't know. In the U20 World Cup final in 2011 he scored 3 goals. A hat trick against Portugal. The only other person to ever score a hat trick in a World Cup final was sir Geoff Hurst when England won it in 1966. If that doesn't make anyone recognise what a special talent he is then again, I pity for you.

Again, I wouldn't really expect anyone to know the aforementioned without doing a bit of research because the Brazilian league is not covered here at all. However, if you couldn't see why he's on his way to become a top talent during his time here then you should go re-watch a couple of games, starting with his first start against Juventus where he played as a number 10, grabbed two goals against a world class keeper in Buffon (especially his 2nd goal which was our goal of the season), whilst effectively keeping one of the best midfielders in the game, Andrea Pirlo, marked out of the game. You have to be an extraordinary talent to be able to do that, especially if you are merely 21 years of age. If that game didn't make you realise what a great talent Oscar and why he's rated as one of the best talents in the world then nothing will. Again, incase you didn't see that game, here is the video (again, please do remember that this was his first ever start for Chelsea):

Oscar has such a high ceiling - he's still a bit raw (he's come on a lot since last season mind) but technically very astute, has very good vision, can dribble the ball effectively, his movement and intelligence on and off the ball is fantastic, technique is top notch - match this with his great work rate, defensive ability (he is one of the best I've seen defensively for a number 10), his physical attributes - which he can work on (He's 5 ft 11/6ft, he's only 21 at the moment and can easily fill out his body frame - gym, higher calorie diets etc.) and you'll soon realise why he's rated so highly. To me he has the potential to be one of the most complete footballers because of his attributes and his attitude - he doesn't seem like a trouble maker and he's still very, very young, many people forget that.

So yeah, in a nutshell, the above is why I think Oscar is definitely one of the top talents in world football today, and we at Chelsea are lucky to have young stars like Hazard, De Bruyne and himself in our squad, whom all have massive room to improve despite already being great players. Again, to me it's not even really debatable. He's definitely one of the best talents in the world.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

TBF There's scarcity of genuine world class players in the position he plays for the national team atm I doubt he would have started for the Brazilian team of the past, who's he going to bench in that no 10 role? Ronaldinho? kaka?, Rivaldo?, Romario?Zico?. If he was starting in midfield for National team's with surplus of top quality midfielders like Spain and Germany then that argument would hold better weight.

Also and perhaps more importantly, he's extremely unproven at club level so far in his career and hasn't shown anything at that level to justify the hype he constantly receives. so bob isn't completely off the mark with that statement. minus the mata part which i disagree with.

Mate go do one. Ok maybe not the nicest of starts but

Oscar is extremely talented. He is the undisputed #10 for Brazil. Why? Because hes better than Hernanes, Ganso, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Bernard, Thiago Neves and Jadson in that role, who all are/were good players. To say he'd not get into Spain (a team blessed with arguably some of the best MF players on the go right now that players like Mata, Silva, Thiago, Illarramendi, Isco, Santi Cazorla, Javi Martinez, Cesc Fabergas are forced to be on the bench sometimes) and Germany (another team blessed with class midfield players, to such an extent that Ilkay Gundogan, Mario Gotze, Toni Kroos don't start most of their games) isn't exactly a valid argument as better players than him can't get into those teams.

Oscar in my eyes is a very good player already. He has a very good skill set. He is good at dribbling (completing 1.1 dribbles per game), has a good shot from distance as we've seen (20 on target, 26 off target - 43% shot accuracy - out of 46 shots but he has a 8.7% conversation percentage, he only scored 4 PL goals last year) and he's capable of setting chances up for his teammates (he created 47 chances last season in the PL and ended up with 5 assists).

Defensively for a number 10 player he is very good, he averaged 2.5 tackles and he made 0.9 interceptions per game. In comparison: his teammates Juan Mata, averaged 0.9 tackles and he made 0.6 interceptions per game and Eden Hazard, averaged 0.8 tackles and 1.1 interceptions per game. Actually in the PL, Oscar averaged more tackles than David Luiz (1.5), Branislav Ivanovic (1.8), Gary Cahill (1.1) and John Terry (0.9), our 4 center backs. His work rate is incredible and his attitude towards defending seems positive, he doesn't just walk around like you've seen with other #10s in the past.

I've not even mentioned his Confederation Cup stats... he averaged 2.8 tackles per game (14 tackles all tournament) and 1.4 interceptions per game (7 interceptions all tournament), he probably made more tackles and interceptions than some of the central midfield players playing for other teams. He assisted 2 goals in the tournament too.

For that being his first season in European football, he has made a very good start and hopefully can kick on and get better like his compatriot Ramires did in his second season! You also have to remember hes nearly participated in 100 games of football in the course of 12 or 13 months.

[JDY 1,290]

Oscar is good at everything but a master of nothing (which isn't a bad thing). He also has an awkward style which reminds me of Thomas Mueller, who also has similar traits.

[Oscar 441]

Oscar Should be -aiming for 20/20 this Coming season.

[ANDRECHO 432]

Oscar is good at everything but a master of nothing (which isn't a bad thing). He also has an awkward style which reminds me of Thomas Mueller, who also has similar traits.iI

If Oscar is an awkward style , I can't imagine which kind of style is Torres

Edited July 30, 2013 by ANDRECHO

[Barbara 15,149]

Let me tell you why Oscar isn't overrated at all. Gotze, Hazard and Reus have all started their careers in Europe, so it's natural you'd think they've shown (according to you) their talent more because you've been exposed by such more. Your claim that Oscar hasn't ever done anything to be mentioned in the same breath as those aforementioned is just ignorant to me, sorry. You act like playing number 10 for Brazil is not a big thing, fine, let's put that aside. What you can't put aside regarding his international appearances is that he, alongside with Neymar, is one of Brazil's best performers on a regular basis. Neymar and Oscar carry Brazil's attack. Yeah, Ronaldinho, Kaka etc. are on the wane and aren't as good as they were before but to say he was practically handed the role as Brazil's playmaker is plain ignorant. He cemented the role at a time when Ganso was considered a great talent, Kaka and Ronaldinho were still doing okay (especially the latter in Brazil), Robinho was still a very valid option, all very decent players. Even the likes of Lucas Moura and Coutinho if you're looking at people his age could not secure that spot in the team despite them all being great talents. He's Brazil's playmaker because he produces excellent performances for them, time and time again, and outshone all of the players mentioned before at the mere age of 20/21. If that doesn't make you acknowledge that he's a great talent then pity for you. You can't just discredit this argument because it's very valid.

There's a reason why the club spent ~£20m for him at a time the likes of Barcelona, Milan, Tottenham were interested in him (especially the latter, we practically nicked him from under their noses). He's been on his way as a potential world class player from a very young age - it wasn't a random impulse buy. He's been on the radar of the big clubs since the age of 17 when he made his competitive debut for Sao Paolo - another feat. You don't make your debut at 17 for a club like Sao Paolo if you aren't talented. At Internacional, despite being injured a lot, Oscar grabbed around 20 goals and 20 assists in 70 games at the age of 18-20. If that isn't phenomenal for a player of his age, performing for a big club in Brazil like that, then I don't know. In the U20 World Cup final in 2011 he scored 3 goals. A hat trick against Portugal. The only other person to ever score a hat trick in a World Cup final was sir Geoff Hurst when England won it in 1966. If that doesn't make anyone recognise what a special talent he is then again, I pity for you.

Again, I wouldn't really expect anyone to know the aforementioned without doing a bit of research because the Brazilian league is not covered here at all. However, if you couldn't see why he's on his way to become a top talent during his time here then you should go re-watch a couple of games, starting with his first start against Juventus where he played as a number 10, grabbed two goals against a world class keeper in Buffon (especially his 2nd goal which was our goal of the season), whilst effectively keeping one of the best midfielders in the game, Andrea Pirlo, marked out of the game. You have to be an extraordinary talent to be able to do that, especially if you are merely 21 years of age. If that game didn't make you realise what a great talent Oscar and why he's rated as one of the best talents in the world then nothing will. Again, incase you didn't see that game, here is the video (again, please do remember that this was his first ever start for Chelsea):

Oscar has such a high ceiling - he's still a bit raw (he's come on a lot since last season mind) but technically very astute, has very good vision, can dribble the ball effectively, his movement and intelligence on and off the ball is fantastic, technique is top notch - match this with his great work rate, defensive ability (he is one of the best I've seen defensively for a number 10), his physical attributes - which he can work on (He's 5 ft 11/6ft, he's only 21 at the moment and can easily fill out his body frame - gym, higher calorie diets etc.) and you'll soon realise why he's rated so highly. To me he has the potential to be one of the most complete footballers because of his attributes and his attitude - he doesn't seem like a trouble maker and he's still very, very young, many people forget that.

So yeah, in a nutshell, the above is why I think Oscar is definitely one of the top talents in world football today, and we at Chelsea are lucky to have young stars like Hazard, De Bruyne and himself in our squad, whom all have massive room to improve despite already being great players. Again, to me it's not even really debatable. He's definitely one of the best talents in the world.

Mate go do one. Ok maybe not the nicest of starts but

Oscar is extremely talented. He is the undisputed #10 for Brazil. Why? Because hes better than Hernanes, Ganso, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Bernard, Thiago Neves and Jadson in that role, who all are/were good players. To say he'd not get into Spain (a team blessed with arguably some of the best MF players on the go right now that players like Mata, Silva, Thiago, Illarramendi, Isco, Santi Cazorla, Javi Martinez, Cesc Fabergas ) and Germany (another team blessed with class midfield players, to such an extent that Ilkay Gundogan, Mario Gotze, Toni Kroos don't start most of their games) isn't exactly a valid argument as better players than him can't get into those teams.

Oscar in my eyes is a very good player already. He has a very good skill set. He is good at dribbling (completing 1.1 dribbles per game), has a good shot from distance as we've seen (20 on target, 26 off target - 43% shot accuracy - out of 46 shots but he has a 8.7% conversation percentage, he only scored 4 PL goals last year) and he's capable of setting chances up for his teammates (he created 47 chances last season in the PL and ended up with 5 assists).

Defensively for a number 10 player he is very good, he averaged 2.5 tackles and he made 0.9 interceptions per game. In comparison: his teammates Juan Mata, averaged 0.9 tackles and he made 0.6 interceptions per game and Eden Hazard, averaged 0.8 tackles and 1.1 interceptions per game. Actually in the PL, Oscar averaged more tackles than David Luiz (1.5), Branislav Ivanovic (1.8), Gary Cahill (1.1) and John Terry (0.9), our 4 center backs. His work rate is incredible and his attitude towards defending seems positive, he doesn't just walk around like you've seen with other #10s in the past.

I've not even mentioned his Confederation Cup stats... he averaged 2.8 tackles per game (14 tackles all tournament) and 1.4 interceptions per game (7 interceptions all tournament), he probably made more tackles and interceptions than some of the central midfield players playing for other teams. He assisted 2 goals in the tournament too.

For that being his first season in European football, he has made a very good start and hopefully can kick on and get better like his compatriot Ramires did in his second season! You also have to remember hes nearly participated in 100 games of football in the course of 12 or 13 months.

wow mates, wow. I was late to the party - too much real life party even if it's Monday - and everything I could have thought of saying about my bb you guys said and some more. I wouldn't have said better myself.

I may have lost some of the transfer gossip last year because as far as I knew Oscar was certainly going to Spurs. I wanted to die because I really love Oscar as a footie and I think he'll become a great player - not world-class (I use the word carefully) - but a great player nonetheless and I despise Spurs with a passion. When I heard he signed us I was over the moon.

In addition to everything you guys mentioned, I think talking about his personality may be valid. He is very shy. To a fault. He lost his father when he was very young - 3yo - and maybe this or something else made him very introvert (he lived with only his mother and two sisters, although his father's brother was close and he married his childhood sweetheart at age 18).

So what some may call awkward I think is just a shy guy that is incredibly confident and quiet and an astonishingly hard worker. His work rate isn't result of a manager's demand. At Inter he even played as a full back on occasion because they didn't have one for whatever reason (I guess the guy was sent off) and he stepped up and played as a frigging full back. He also played as a DM a few times because the team needed him. A guy that starts supporting his family at 15 is a hard worker, or do you think a guy playing U17, in a club in Brazil - not matter how talented and promising - makes tons of money? But he stepped up and took responsibility with his small wage.

So that's his personality. He's in a foreign country, culture, speaking a language he doesn't know, adapting about everything, of course he's going to struggle! I admire the kid, a lot, because of everything he showed. His legal dispute in Brazil made him cry - literally - I remember when he was finally allowed to play again after 45 days he broke down crying scoring in his comeback match for Inter. It wasn't just a few tears, but nearly sobbing in the pitch because he felt terribly for not helping his team mates when they needed him the most (in Libertadores - South America's UCL). That's the value of a man despite being only 20 then. How many 20yo behave like that?

So while you guys gave so many technical reasons as to why this guy is class, I think I could add a few things about his motivation, his values, his personality and the hard work that comes from his personality. In many interviews while in Brazil he thanked the club for giving him everything he had... as if he wasn't entitled to his salary by the work he gave the club. Because that's the idea he has... that he has to work hard for the club that is paying him.

I was re-watching an interview when he won ESPN's best Brazilian player in Europe and how he talked about Chelsea... it made me happy when he called Chelsea his house (it's not only what he said, but how he said it). He doesn't take those things lightly and he said he plans to spend the best (and many) years of his career here and wants to help Chelsea win everything because Chelsea is now his house. So well, given his skills, his commitment and how he feels about Chelsea, that's enough for me.

[Strike 7,486]

Where will he play though? He doesn't have a fixed first-choice position in the team. Mata bossed at CAM last season - one of the best players in the league - so that's taken. Eden Hazard - first-choice winger and the club have got De Bruyne and Schurrle this season, both of whom are far more comfortable and suited to the wings. Another option is deeper in the pivot but then again we bought van Ginkel and have 5 players for that position

Oscar will play a lot of games filling in at different positions than being a regular fixture in one position. That will affect his overall output here.

edit - To accomodate Oscar as a first-choice player in his preferred CAM position, Mata should shift to the wing. I know Jose has told in the press about Mata playing on the right but I think he's much better/effective at CAM

[Barbara 15,149]

Where will he play though? He doesn't have a fixed first-choice position in the team. Mata bossed at CAM last season - one of the best players in the league - so that's taken. Eden Hazard - first-choice winger and the club have got De Bruyne and Schurrle this season, both of whom are far more comfortable and suited to the wings. Another option is deeper in the pivot but then again we bought van Ginkel and have 5 players for that position

Oscar will play a lot of games filling in at different positions than being a regular fixture in one position. That will affect his overall output here.

edit - To accomodate Oscar as a first-choice player in his preferred CAM position, Mata should shift to the wing. I know Jose has told in the press about Mata playing on the right but I think he's much better/effective at CAM

let's not underestimate Mourinho's preferences for certain kind of players. Oscar is ahead some of his competition because of his style - that suits Mourinho's preferences better than other players. That said, yeah, he may not start tons of matches, but I have a couple of guesses on what Mourinho is planning...

I don't think he will play Oscar in the '2' though (in a 4-2-3-1). I think he'll either play him in the MF '3' in a 4-3-3 (as the most advanced MF) or he'll play him as CAM in the 4-2-3-1.

Also I see Oscar ending the season in the starting XI and I guess he'll start all UCL matches.

[Strike 7,486]

let's not underestimate Mourinho's preferences for certain kind of players. Oscar is ahead some of his competition because of his style - that suits Mourinho's preferences better than other players. That said, yeah, he may not start tons of matches, but I have a couple of guesses on what Mourinho is planning...

I don't think he will play Oscar in the '2' though (in a 4-2-3-1). I think he'll either play him in the MF '3' in a 4-3-3 (as the most advanced MF) or he'll play him as CAM in the 4-2-3-1.

Also I see Oscar ending the season in the starting XI and I guess he'll start all UCL matches.

For one, Oscar is more suited to a 4-3-3 than Mata. He's much more aware defensively than Mata who played almost as the second-striker last year

[olivertwist 23]

@ theskipper

"Let me tell you why Oscar isn't overrated at all. Gotze, Hazard and Reus have all started their careers in Europe, so it's natural you'd think they've shown (according to you) their talent more because you've been exposed by such more.. . Again, I wouldn't really expect anyone to know the aforementioned without doing a bit of research because the Brazilian league is not covered here at all. "

Firstly I used the reference he hasn't shown anything at club level in regards to his performances both at internacional and Chelsea and secondly, ease up on the assumption that I never knew Oscar and how he performed before joining Chelsea because you know absolutely nothing about me. if we are going to have a civilized debate. it 's best easing up on the assumption and conjecture games.

"Your claim that Oscar hasn't ever done anything to be mentioned in the same breath as those aforementioned is just ignorant to me, sorry. You act like playing number 10 for Brazil is not a big thing, fine, let's put that aside. What you can't put aside regarding his international appearances is that he, alongside with Neymar, is one of Brazil's best performers on a regular basis. Neymar and Oscar carry Brazil's attack. Yeah, Ronaldinho, Kaka etc. are on the wane and aren't as good as they were before but to say he was practically handed the role as Brazil's playmaker is plain ignorant. He cemented the role at a time when Ganso was considered a great talent, Kaka and Ronaldinho were still doing okay (especially the latter in Brazil), Robinho was still a very valid option, all very decent players. Even the likes of Lucas Moura and Coutinho if you're looking at people his age could not secure that spot in the team despite them all being great talents. He's Brazil's playmaker because he produces excellent performances for them, time and time again, and outshone all of the players mentioned before at the mere age of 20/21. If that doesn't make you acknowledge that he's a great talent then pity for you. You can't just discredit this argument because it's very valid."

You just made my point. Let's see, so firstly you agreed when Oscar busted unto the scene Ronaldinho and Kaka were on a downward spiral by the time and Ganso who was hotly tipped to succeed those two and already a starter for the salecao at the time, lost form terribly and never recovered costing him his place and position in the team. His arrival also coincided with a time Brazil launched a rebuilding campaign ahead of the world cup in 2014 and with the scarcity of top class playmakers, Oscar haven't performed well at the junior level for the national team was the beneficiary of that rebuilding phase.

Out of the other players you mentione, only countinho qualifies as a no 10 but he was mismanaged by inter and lost motivation and his reputation to a major hit as a result which didn't help his case at the time.

"However, if you couldn't see why he's on his way to become a top talent during his time here then you should go re-watch a couple of games, starting with his first start against Juventus where he played as a number 10, grabbed two goals against a world class keeper in Buffon (especially his 2nd goal which was our goal of the season), whilst effectively keeping one of the best midfielders in the game, Andrea Pirlo, marked out of the game. You have to be an extraordinary talent to be able to do that, especially if you are merely 21 years of age. If that game didn't make you realise what a great talent Oscar and why he's rated as one of the best talents in the world then nothing will. Again, incase you didn't see that game, here is the video (again, please do remember that this was his first ever start for Chelsea):"

So he had ONE decent game against Juve and this proves what exactly? that it's sufficient proof of his "high ceiling potential and world class talent"?

Fabregas, Rooney,Messi, Ronaldo, Owen to name a few were tearing teams to shred and performing at a far higher level on a CONSISTENT basis at similar age and some of those names were already in the reckoning for the ballon dor at Oscar's age. so forgive me if I'm not impressed by this massive achievement of "our £20m rated, high ceiling prospect"oscar you just highlighted.

"Oscar has such a high ceiling - he's still a bit raw (he's come on a lot since last season mind) but technically very astute, has very good vision, can dribble the ball effectively, his movement and intelligence on and off the ball is fantastic, technique is top notch"

This can't be the same Oscar I saw last season constantly waste possession with very sloppy first touch and wayward passing.

[meetdoscar 335]

let's not underestimate Mourinho's preferences for certain kind of players. Oscar is ahead some of his competition because of his style - that suits Mourinho's preferences better than other players. That said, yeah, he may not start tons of matches, but I have a couple of guesses on what Mourinho is planning...

I don't think he will play Oscar in the '2' though (in a 4-2-3-1). I think he'll either play him in the MF '3' in a 4-3-3 (as the most advanced MF) or he'll play him as CAM in the 4-2-3-1.

Also I see Oscar ending the season in the starting XI and I guess he'll start all UCL matches.

You forgot to add its difficult to compete for position with any player in the brazil national team first 11. Just a bit of history. He came to Cfc and said in 1month he will be a regular even without preseason at age 20/21 well so it was. I also remember rating ganso far more than oscar until I observed oscar is the type of player that developed progressively through hardwork just like the likes of CR7. To add to his quality i think he is one of the most mobile No.10 in world football right now. He's movement is incredible and balances a team I just think most people don't observe that.