Non-Chelsea Transfer Pub

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

Cech

Azpi - Luiz - Ivanovic - Cole

De Rossi - Oscar

Sanchez - Mata - Hazard

Cavani

That looks fantastic. You could use De Bryune on the right but his future with us is not looking good, which just defies logic.

[Beepu 1,714]

Dortmund won't sell him. Great player ofc.

Heard he has a release clause, i think it was 30m Euros or something close

[Strike 7,536]

WE HAVE TO PLAY 4-3-3!

Top priorities are a Striker and a RW. Then it comes a CM and lastly a CB...

We dont need a DM until we try Chalobah and Romeu there!

Standing between Chelsea and 4-3-3 is Juan Mata. It's ironic that it is our best player who gives us no tactical flexibility in midfield

[The Skipper 20,609]

That really doesn't change much. I was already aware of most of the things stated in there. The only major thing I did not know was the player wages from before 2010 and that accounts for very little now as only JT and Cech have contracts from before that period. As for the youth development money, that is already negligible compared to the wages and fees we pay. One major point you're still missing is, we made profit between June 2011 and June 2012, meaning before we spent a whole lot of money last summer on signings. Signings that we are still paying for. And considering our income this year has been less because last season we were boosted by the CL win, I don't think we can spend 100m without exceeding the -45m margin.

Okay, let's say the transfers from last season aren't included in our profit figure.

Hazard - £32m/5yrs which comes down to £6.4m. Oscar - £20m/5yrs which amortises to £4m. Victor Moses - £9m/5 = £1.8m. Azpilicueta - £7.5m/5yrs = £1.5m. Marko Marin = £7m/5yrs = £1.4m. Demba Ba £7.5m/3.5yrs = £2.1m.

Total = £17.1m which still gives us a leeway of around £22m.

We lose about (estimate) £10m of that obviously because we didn't get far in the CL and that leaves us with potentially £12m to play around with.

That doesn't look as promising but our youth expenses are not as negligible as you put it either - last season they were accounted as £18m - which bumps up our total money to around £30m on a rough estimate (in FFP terms) assuming we get roughly the same figure this year which is still quite a lot to play around with. You're also forgetting we sold Sturridge and Meireles for around £20m combined which also gives a lot of leniency - which brings our total figure to play around with to around £50m (estimate). Not to mention we might sell guys like Michael Essien who's easily worth +£10m, Kakuta, PvA etc. and a lot of players are leaving on a free therefore freeing even more space on the wage budget - Add to that the fact that the PL will give us a a few more million for finishing 3rd (and the restructuring of PL money being factored in) and also the likely additional monies made from our CL win (the merchandise, growing fan base around the world etc.) and you'll realise we still have a lot more to play around with than you're giving credit for.

Of course we'd have to wait and see for the next set of financial information the club will release to confirm all of this but we're fine regarding FFP and we do have the ability to spend another £100m from what I've gathered. It's more than possible - but again, we'd have to wait for the accounts the club release for this past season to confirm this and see where we're exactly at so we can the have a definitive answer but from what I've gathered we look capable.

[Strike 7,536]

Cech

Azpi - Luiz - Ivanovic - Cole

De Rossi - Oscar

Sanchez - Mata - Hazard

Cavani

That looks fantastic. You could use De Bryune on the right but his future with us is not looking good, which just defies logic.

For me, this hasn't been pursued enough - Oscar in the deeper midfield role. His favoured position is CAM but since Mata is a sure starter there, Oscar has to adapt and I think he'll do better centrally than on the flanks. Oscar-Mikel is asking for trouble though. Need a new DM

[Guest FullEnglishBreakfast]

Moving Oscar deep into the midfield can either do two things: ruin him like it did for Mikel or fufill his star high potential. It's a massive gamble but one thing is for sure, whomever the manager is mustn't put a leash on his creativity like José did with Mikel. If he can not be expressive with his football he may as well retire right now.

[GhanaBoy 104]

I cant believe people forget our game vs tottenham during de mateo's era mata played wide/roaming right of a three including Hazard-oscar-Mata. Funny enough mata is one of our best players, yet i would say he is our weak link in the sense that he is not a winger/ slow and he is defensively poor. when he plays as a number 10 he really plays as a second stiker leaving our midfield two exposed (ie a 2 v 3). a perfect example being our trip to Goodison park ( everton) even though he (mata) played as our #10 we did not control the game, yet when oscar came on as the #10 he was a presence and influenced the game as a #10 should. I would say mata represents kaka, in simple sense a second striker NOT a #10 ' meaning not a controler but a striker really' while you can say oscar represents zidane, a reall number ten, dynamic, yet a presence in the MIDDLE, creating a true three man midfield.

If jose is our next manager and it comes down to oscar or mata as our #10, he will choose oscar and that will be the right choice in my opinion.

P.S. I like mata but funny enough he might be our weak link,and the player holding us back.EX: Kroos-sweinstieger-J. Martinez vs Oscar-KDB-Mikel is more structured, phisical, and compact , and has the ability to hold possessing similar to our Lampard-Ballack-makalele axis containing elements of tiki-taka, and power.

[Guest FullEnglishBreakfast]

I cant believe people forget our game vs tottenham during de mateo's era mata played wide/roaming right of a three including Hazard-oscar-Mata. Funny enough mata is one of our best players, yet i would say he is our weak link in the sense that he is not a winger/ slow and he is defensively poor. when he plays as a number 10 he really plays as a second stiker leaving our midfield two exposed (ie a 2 v 3). a perfect example being our trip to Goodison park ( everton) even though he (mata) played as our #10 we did not control the game, yet when oscar came on as the #10 he was a presence and influenced the game as a #10 should. I would say mata represents kaka, in simple sense a second striker NOT a #10 ' meaning not a controler but a striker really' while you can say oscar represents zidane, a reall number ten, dynamic, yet a presence in the MIDDLE, creating a true three man midfield.

If jose is our next manager and it comes down to oscar or mata as our #10, he will choose oscar and that will be the right choice in my opinion.

P.S. I like mata but funny enough he might be our weak link,and the player holding us back.EX: Kroos-sweinstieger-J. Martinez vs Oscar-KDB-Mikel is more structured, phisical, and compact , and has the ability to hold possessing similar to our Lampard-Ballack-makalele axis containing elements of tiki-taka, and power.

I agree with everything up until the Oscar replacing Jose and onwards. Mata quite frankly is the most important player at Chelsea right now, everything should be structured around him but saying that, everything also needs to be structured so the team can function properly without Mata. This is an incredibly hard task, Barcelona is structured around Messi but their structure can not handle very much without Messi; Chelsea needs to go above and beyond this with Mata.

[Stingray 9,441]

Damned I want Witsel here. That guy would boss the pivot for us. Such a reliable, technical, hard working player!!

+ Cavani/Lewa

+ Kdb

Nom nom nom.

[Strike 7,536]

While I agree, he is not a destroyer. It's like saying Ramires is one.

If we're playing 4-2-3-1, this would be fantastic:

Fernandinho --- Lars Bender

Oscar -------Mata --------Hazard

Disagree with Oscar on the wing. He should play more central. He's shown that he's no mug while challenging for the ball and his workrate is great for a player of his kind.

[Madmax 9,219]

Disagree with Oscar on the wing. He should play more central. He's shown that he's no mug while challenging for the ball and his workrate is great for a player of his kind.

I agree actually, but if we stick to 4-2-3-1, he's more likely to be the one shunted wide in favour of Mata or Hazard.

Fernandinho ----- L. Bender

Oscar

Hazard------------Mata

Is another option with those players but it would really need Ashley to play as a wingback, much like Azpi on the other side.

[Toli 977]

Heard he has a release clause, i think it was 30m Euros or something close

he has no release clause. his agent already said it.

[Strike 7,536]

I agree actually, but if we stick to 4-2-3-1, he's more likely to be the one shunted wide in favour of Mata or Hazard.

Fernandinho ----- L. Bender

Oscar

Hazard------------Mata

Is another option with those players but it would really need Ashley to play as a wingback, much like Azpi on the other side.

I like that. There is little chance of getting over-run in that midfield except for down the flank (Ashley Cole) but Mata in the wing shouldn't be considered as a permanent option imo. He has CAM locked up

Mata stands between Oscar and a central role. If we do sign a solid midfielder in the summer, Oscar could adapt to a DLP role. Assuming Mourinho returns, it is unlikely Oscar will be shunted out wide. Mourinho will most likely want to have faster wingers - Duff/Robben, di Maria/Ronaldo - and put Oscar in the midfielder role

[Strike 7,536]

Moving Oscar deep into the midfield can either do two things: ruin him like it did for Mikel or fufill his star high potential. It's a massive gamble but one thing is for sure, whomever the manager is mustn't put a leash on his creativity like José did with Mikel. If he can not be expressive with his football he may as well retire right now.

There is a good chance that deep midfield role will limit him. In the 4-2-3-1 Chelsea play now, the midfield duo are very deep. More often they are CDM rather than CM. Even if he's played in midfield with the intention of attacking, he will need to fall back to cover for Mata's (lack of) tracking back.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I cant believe people forget our game vs tottenham during de mateo's era mata played wide/roaming right of a three including Hazard-oscar-Mata. Funny enough mata is one of our best players, yet i would say he is our weak link in the sense that he is not a winger/ slow and he is defensively poor. when he plays as a number 10 he really plays as a second stiker leaving our midfield two exposed (ie a 2 v 3). a perfect example being our trip to Goodison park ( everton) even though he (mata) played as our #10 we did not control the game, yet when oscar came on as the #10 he was a presence and influenced the game as a #10 should. I would say mata represents kaka, in simple sense a second striker NOT a #10 ' meaning not a controler but a striker really' while you can say oscar represents zidane, a reall number ten, dynamic, yet a presence in the MIDDLE, creating a true three man midfield.

If jose is our next manager and it comes down to oscar or mata as our #10, he will choose oscar and that will be the right choice in my opinion.

P.S. I like mata but funny enough he might be our weak link,and the player holding us back.EX: Kroos-sweinstieger-J. Martinez vs Oscar-KDB-Mikel is more structured, phisical, and compact , and has the ability to hold possessing similar to our Lampard-Ballack-makalele axis containing elements of tiki-taka, and power.

Mata is our best player, make no mistake about that.

But to become a real force to be reconed with, I think jose will develop his defensive side massively and force him to do some gym work to develop his strength to hold the ball under pressure. And I think he will develop his workrate under jose, maybe if jose subs him off early in games to keep him fresh like he does with ozil it will make mata less tired and cancel out that 3 vs 2 midfield that always happens to us.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Okay, let's say the transfers from last season aren't included in our profit figure.

Hazard - £32m/5yrs which comes down to £6.4m. Oscar - £20m/5yrs which amortises to £4m. Victor Moses - £9m/5 = £1.8m. Azpilicueta - £7.5m/5yrs = £1.5m. Marko Marin = £7m/5yrs = £1.4m. Demba Ba £7.5m/3.5yrs = £2.1m.

Total = £17.1m which still gives us a leeway of around £22m.

We lose about (estimate) £10m of that obviously because we didn't get far in the CL and that leaves us with potentially £12m to play around with.

That doesn't look as promising but our youth expenses are not as negligible as you put it either - last season they were accounted as £18m - which bumps up our total money to around £30m on a rough estimate (in FFP terms) assuming we get roughly the same figure this year which is still quite a lot to play around with. You're also forgetting we sold Sturridge and Meireles for around £20m combined which also gives a lot of leniency - which brings our total figure to play around with to around £50m (estimate). Not to mention we might sell guys like Michael Essien who's easily worth +£10m, Kakuta, PvA etc. and a lot of players are leaving on a free therefore freeing even more space on the wage budget - Add to that the fact that the PL will give us a a few more million for finishing 3rd (and the restructuring of PL money being factored in) and also the likely additional monies made from our CL win (the merchandise, growing fan base around the world etc.) and you'll realise we still have a lot more to play around with than you're giving credit for.

Of course we'd have to wait and see for the next set of financial information the club will release to confirm all of this but we're fine regarding FFP and we do have the ability to spend another £100m from what I've gathered. It's more than possible - but again, we'd have to wait for the accounts the club release for this past season to confirm this and see where we're exactly at so we can the have a definitive answer but from what I've gathered we look capable.

Two things:

1) Why are the fees of players we buy divided over 5 years (btw not all the players signed 5 year deals, Demba for example signed for 3) but the fees for the players we sell don't? That would make the income from selling players 4m instead of 20m.

2) How did you jump from 50m to 100m?!

Realistically I think we will spend something like 40-50m, but not 70m and certainly not 100m.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Two things:

1) Why are the fees of players we buy divided over 5 years (btw not all the players signed 5 year deals, Demba for example signed for 3) but the fees for the players we sell don't? That would make the income from selling players 4m instead of 20m.

2) How did you jump from 50m to 100m?!

Realistically I think we will spend something like 40-50m, but not 70m and certainly not 100m.

1) If you look at the calculations, I've taken that into account. I divided Ba's amortised fee by 3.5 years as he signed for that long. The others I believe signed 5 year contracts.

2) Because it's £50m of amortised money available. If we sign 4 player worth £100m all together on 5 year contracts that comes down to an amortised fee of £20m (£100m/5yrs = £20m a year) - so even if my calculations are slightly off you do get to see the bigger picture where I believe we can afford to spend another £100m in the transfer market next year if we really want to. Not that we really need to, I think around £70m will be enough but it's there if it's needed.

[themightyblue 443]

Going off what Rafa said yesterday which is we'll spend close to the 100m mark on 3/4 players (which I have no reason to doubt considering he spends time with the board, is reportedly close with Emenalo and know's what is going on behind the scenes), I'd go for something like this (realistically as possible):

Schurrle (20m + 5 year deal)

Rooney/Gomez (30m + 5 year deal)

Khedira (20m + 5 year deal)

Di Maria (25m + 5 year deal) - If Madrid signed Bale

Loans: Lukaku, Chalobah, Mceachran, Kalas/Omeruo (one stays, one goes), Piazon, Romeu(can see him possibly being loaned out for regular game time given that he's had 3 serious injuries in the last 3 years and Mou likes Essien), PVA, Thorgan, Ake

Outs: Benayoun, Malouda, Marin, Torres/Ba, Ferreira, Hilario, Bruma

25 man squad:

GK: Cech, Blackman, Turnbull

DF: Azpi, Ivanovic, Cahill, Luiz, Terry, Bertrand, Cole, (Kalas/Omeruo)

MF: Mikel, Ramires, Oscar, Khedira, Essien, Lamps

AM: Mata, Hazard, Di Maria, Schurrle, De Bruyne, Moses

CF: Rooney, Torres/Ba

First XI:

Cech

Azpi Luiz Terry/Ivanovic Cole

Khedira/De Rossi Oscar

Di Maria Mata Hazard

Rooney

Subs: Blackman, Cahill, Ivanovic/Terry, Ramires, De Bruyne, Schurrle, Torres/Ba

Then you have Moses, Mikel, Lamps, Bertrand etc for depth

Honestly think this summer will be a big one and we all know how Mourinho likes to make a statement and isn't shy in the transfer market. Roman will also want to bridge the gap between us and United and with both Manc clubs likely to spend big, I doubt Roman will sit and count his chickens. Don't want to get into FFP as those that understand it will know that we are well-placed, and if those transfers i've suggested do come to fruition, it would only equate to around 20m once the fee's are ammortised over the likely length of contract. With players like Lamps, Cole, Essien, Terry, Torres/Ba and maybe even Ivan approaching the age/time of contract where Chelsea usually deem players surplus, it would open up gaps for the likes of Chalobah, Lukaku, Ake, Kalas etc for the 2014/15 season providing they have productive loans. Quite hard to speculate as some of the loan players this season might come back and really impress the new manager in pre-season

[CHOULO19 24,332]

1) If you look at the calculations, I've taken that into account. I divided Ba's amortised fee by 3.5 years as he signed for that long. The others I believe signed 5 year contracts.

2) Because it's £50m of amortised money available. If we sign 4 player worth £100m all together on 5 year contracts that comes down to an amortised fee of £20m (£100m/5yrs = £20m a year) - so even if my calculations are slightly off you do get to see the bigger picture where I believe we can afford to spend another £100m in the transfer market next year if we really want to. Not that we really need to, I think around £70m will be enough but it's there if it's needed.

But it's not 50m that we have to spend because like I said, you did not divide the fees of Sturridge and Meireles by 5, so it's closer to 30m. Now let's assume we spend 50m in fees, or 10m per year assuming they all sign 5 year contracts, that still leaves the wages which are the biggest expenses that you forgot. 40m per year in wages equates to about 380K/week. So if we say we use those 50m to buy 4 players, that means that on average each one of them gets 95k/wk. That seems to me about right.

Even with your optimistic figures, I still honestly think that 50m is our limit, not because of the 50m itself but because of the wages we will be adding unless we can get major players to agree on wages below 100k.

On any account, I don;t think we need to spend more than 50m to challenge for the tittle. We need two major signings in a CM and "Schurrle/Rooney signing" for about 30-40m and a couple of squad players for 10-15m.

[Superblue 6,372]

But it's not 50m that we have to spend because like I said, you did not divide the fees of Sturridge and Meireles by 5, so it's closer to 30m. Now let's assume we spend 50m in fees, or 10m per year assuming they all sign 5 year contracts, that still leaves the wages which are the biggest expenses that you forgot. 40m per year in wages equates to about 380K/week. So if we say we use those 50m to buy 4 players, that means that on average each one of them gets 95k/wk. That seems to me about right.

Even with your optimistic figures, I still honestly think that 50m is our limit, not because of the 50m itself but because of the wages we will be adding unless we can get major players to agree on wages below 100k.

On any account, I don;t think we need to spend more than 50m to challenge for the tittle. We need two major signings in a CM and "Schurrle/Rooney signing" for about 30-40m and a couple of squad players for 10-15m.

When you're buying you can amortise the transfer fee over the length of a players contract, hence the likes of Hazard and Oscar's fees over 5 years. However when you sell players you are able to recognise the transfer fee immediately in that current period...welcome to the murky world of football finances!

A couple of points to make on that:

• You also have to take into account that we would still be amortising the likes of Torres and Mata's contracts as well.
• There were a lot of commercial deals done after our Champions League win which I believe were rather lucrative. These wouldn't have been accounted for in last year's accounts where we made a profit.
• Because of amortising over the length of contracts, the transfer fee's are not as bad as people think. The biggest killer is wages and we have taken steps over the last couple of seasons to bring our wage bill down replacing older high earners with younger lower earners. Factor in the likes of Ferreira, Benayoun and Malouda definitely going to go; the likes of Terry, Torres and Essien's futures uncertain and Lampard reportedly taking a pay cut and we'll have a good degree of flexibility next season with a lower wage bill.