Juan Mata

[Barbara 15,149]

now onto the part I guess it's up to discussion (and I know there are people that thought the 'free show' he provided was okay, but that also think Mourinho is right on how he's been handling Mata, so this is again a general answer based on some posts I've read and my general opinion in the matter, consider this a reset)

Calling what Mourinho did based EXCLUSIVELY on performance and form is marginalizing Mata makes no sense in my head. When was the last time he had a great match for us? I think he had a good match against Arsenal in the League Cup (nothing spectacular, but still a good match). Recently (I always mix matches when they're too close to one another) he had a good match in the EPL - one he's started - but in all honesty those were the only worth mentioning matches he had in the 15 he started (and let's not ignore the 3 he came as a sub because Oscar and Willian proved coming as a sub doesn't take away your chance to destroy a match, no matter how many minutes unless it's the 85-90 mark sub to gain time). So how is that marginalizing a player? I will never understand why people use PAST form to justify a player staying in the team CURRENTLY when there are others doing better. Oscar was dropped, Willian was dropped, Schurrle was dropped. Anyone but Eden Hazard was dropped in that AM and that's because Mourinho chose to give confidence to the guy he thinks will be our Balon d'Or winner in a couple of years. Mourinho is absolutely right in his assessment imo and it seems the people voting for Balon d'Or agree, as they chose Hazard (rightfully) and not Mata as the Chelsea player to be part of the list (now if any of them deserved to be in the list is another discussion, but supposing one of our players deserved, that player is Hazard imo). He's the manager, he has the right to make that choice and we have the right to disagree and argue. I see the dividends of his choice in the pitch. Hazard has yet to play a match or a span of them like he did in the very beginning of EPL and the very ending of the season last year, but I look at him now and I think he's a better player, he's more important to us, he's improving and I just support Mourinho's choice all over again (as I did since the beginning).

The problem is people wanted Mourinho to choose Mata to be his guy, but he chose the more talented player in the squad instead. They seem to forget Mata was injured and when he was introduced in the team other players had already pre-season and official matches under their belt, had adapted better to the drills and what Mourinho wanted from them. He had to catch up, that's why he was dropped before he even had a chance. Then ever since he's been giving chances and those chances progressively increased. He had more chances in November-December than in September-October. But the naked truth is he did nothing or very little of the chances he's received and Willian and Schurrle who's received less chances and are still adapting to the league had better matches (not overall, but certain matches). Schurrle even won us matches and it's ridiculous that after scoring two goals against Stoke we made his efforts to be lost (just like Oscar's against Juve last year) by allowing the opposition to draw or win. I won't even mention the many matches Oscar won us either with goals or with the balance he's gave to our midfield because that's unfair with Mata...

I'm going to support Mourinho marginalizing any player that currently doesn't show good football and I can't be against him pushing a young kid, who's 22, to his limits while he's alternating good and bad matches (at some point I wanted Eden to be dropped from a game to push him to react faster, I don't remember now if he was dropped from UCL or EPL - I guess he was in UCL, but whatever Mourinho did, worked, because he's been the best player for us in the holiday's period - which is the most demanding period for players in England). I defended Mourinho benching Schurrle at times and I also complained about Mourinho dropping him for no reason whatsoever when he was playing well. I did the same with Willian. Mourinho's made mistakes - like any manager does - but I don't think he's made one mistake on handling Mata (as far as I can remember).

Does he play better in the middle? Yes, he does. But he's been playing as a winger his whole career in Spain, so it's not like Mourinho asked him to play a position he's never played before. We have a weak pivot, but our FB are good defenders. They defend very well, I'd place my biggest defensive liability near the guys that defend better rather than guys that need help instead of providing it. Why Mourinho had no problem playing Eden in the middle in the last two matches? Because he knows he can press and tackle. Mourinho looks what's better for the team as a whole... he can't (actually he can, but he won't, and that proves why he's one of the top managers in the world) put Mata in his best position where he may or may not create a lot for us (he hasn't so far, and every single match he's played for us this year he's spent some time in the middle. in some it was where he spent less time, but in others where he's spent more time. Go to Squawka and check heat maps and action maps), but where he'll expose even more one of our deficiencies. It's not rocket science, it's very simple actually to understand why Mourinho plays him more in the wing than in the middle. He's slow, he doesn't naturally tackle, he doesn't press well, he doesn't have the instinct. The system is based in pressing and dispossessing the opposition and the system based on our results and our positions in UCL and EPL proves to be more effective than the ones we had in the last two seasons (actually since Carlo, but we're talking about Mata here).

Still those are my arguments to defend Mourinho's approach and I don't mind people refuting them with whatever others arguments, so feel free to answer back about it. As for the pitiful display of rage, frustration or whatever after he was subbed, I'm mum from now on. You may want to answer, and that will be the final word about it. This is how I feel about the episode.

@, shall we open a thread thanking Mata for the two amazing years of football he had for us and how we appreciate everything he did and how we hope we'd continue to do it somehow? It could sort of be a statue (or altar) to recognize him. Maybe that way people won't jump to the ridiculous assumption people who criticize Mata for his below par matches this season, disapproving reaction and being rightfully benched based on performance will understand we aren't ignoring, forgetting or not being thankful for what he's done here... I'm not being sarcastic at all. I'll have a lot to say in said thread, A LOT because present time I don't have much positive to say on his football presentations (when there was something good from him, I did), but I could use a place to pay my respect and gratitude.

[Pizy 18,520]

Jesus, Barb! These giant posts.

When's your footy novel coming out? I'll buy a few copies.

[Barbara 15,149]

Jesus, Barb! These giant posts.

When's your footy novel coming out? I'll buy a few copies.

I don't have footy novels, but I have 13 novels. Want the ebooks?

[dee25 1,044]

The problem with your post is: Mourinho is giving Mata the chances, he started almost as many as Oscar, but he has been avarage at best. So if you still prefer Mata over Oscar at this point, you really look like a fan-boy.

As you said, this is a football forum, so dont get angry to find this kind of terms here. Being a fanboy is not that bad at all.

I think the point is that some use terms like "Mata fanboys" as an easy way to discredit opinions that are different from theirs. It's just lazy & ends up only provoking people.

I agree that Mourinho has given Mata chances but I also think he made up his mind about Mata long before he gave him those chances. How much minutes has Mata actually played compared to Oscar? It won't be surprising to me if it's a lot less.

The way I see it, Oscar fits in with Mourinho's system and that kind of makes it easier for him to perform better than Mata and also makes it inevitable that Mata will fail in this system.

If people still prefer Mata in the no.10 role over Oscar even though the former has been average then its because we generally tend to create more chances when Mata plays in that role. Mourinho has shown that he's justified in persisting with Oscar but some forget that up until recently, we hadn’t at all looked impressive for a stretch of games. Before the Soton match, there was very little we could use as evidence that Oscar does make the team better (other than maybe our league position). Before these recent games, Oscar had still yet to register 1 assist in the league even though he’s started the majority of the games this season. Lampard has created more chances from central midfield than Oscar has in the no. 10 position. Mata also has created more chances than Oscar despite playing less minutes and playing out of position. It's not hard to see why people would prefer him in the no. 10. Now it’s easy to make a clear case that Oscar makes the team better but people forget that there was a while where, match after match, we very much struggled to create chances and were relying mainly on goalkeeping errors.

IMO, the way some people prefer Mata to Oscar is no different from how some prefer Luiz over Cahill, Azpi over Iva, Mikel over Lampard etc. A lot of these people who are making “Mata fanboy” accusations are the same people who have argued for Luiz to be played over Cahill when a case can be made that Cahill has been better than Luiz. Funny how they don't see that as "fanboying".

[The only place to be 11,313]

IMO, the way some people prefer Mata to Oscar is no different from how some prefer Luiz over Cahill, Azpi over Iva, Mikel over Lampard etc. A lot of these people who are making “Mata fanboy” accusations are the same people who have argued for Luiz to be played over Cahill when a case can be made that Cahill has been better than Luiz. Funny how they don't see that as "fanboying".

Completely disagree. Oscar is our most important player and the choice between him and Mata has massive ramifications on the way we play football compared to those other positions.

If people still prefer Mata in the no.10 role over Oscar even though the former has been average then its because we generally tend to create more chances when Mata plays in that role..

If they're basing it on 'creating chances' then that might make sense. But shouldn't they be basing it on how the team plays as a whole?

The way I see it, Oscar fits in with Mourinho's system and that kind of makes it easier for him to perform better than Mata and also makes it inevitable that Mata will fail in this system.

Absolutely agree, but you'll see people using Mata's two POTY awards as some sort of justification for Mourinho needing to build the team around him. Fanboy is a bad term to use in my opinion, but I'm not sure what other word you might use.

[Barbara 15,149]

IMO, the way some people prefer Mata to Oscar is no different from how some prefer Luiz over Cahill, Azpi over Iva, Mikel over Lampard etc. A lot of these people who are making “Mata fanboy” accusations are the same people who have argued for Luiz to be played over Cahill when a case can be made that Cahill has been better than Luiz. Funny how they don't see that as "fanboying

and still they went to the Cahill thread and said he was the best CB playing for us and David rightfully deserved to be benched.

Or recognizing him as our best man in the pitch, not only among the defends, but the whole team.

There, mister, is the difference between fanboying/girling and still being able to see instead of being plain blind.

Cheers!

[dee25 1,044]

and still they went to the Cahill thread and said he was the best CB playing for us and David rightfully deserved to be benched.

There, mister, is the difference between fanboying/girling and still being able to see instead of being plain blind.

Cheers!

Well I wasn't exactly referring to you specifically, Barbara. Just commenting generally on the irony of this fanboy business. So spare me the melodrama. Please. If I have something to say about a point you specifically mentioned then believe me I have no reservations in responding directly to you.

Secondly, so you finally gave Cahill some recognition after four months into the season..... :woo:

Break out the champagne!

[Barbara 15,149]

Well I wasn't exactly referring to you specifically, Barbara. Just commenting generally on the irony of this fanboy business. So spare me the melodrama. Please. If I have something to say about a point you specifically mentioned then believe me I have no reservations in responding directly to you.

Secondly, so you finally gave Cahill some recognition after four months into the season..... :woo:

Break out the champagne!

well, I guess I was the one to introduce the term in the thread, and I have been very active in the Luiz/Cahill discussion, so I thought I was included in the group of people you meant. I don't regret using the term. Being a fanboy/girl isn't a problem. Being blinded by it is. We all could be subjected to that, I'm sure I've been in the past (may still be about Mourinho actually)

[dee25 1,044]

well, I guess I was the one to introduce the term in the thread, and I have been very active in the Luiz/Cahill discussion, so I thought I was included in the group of people you meant. I don't regret using the term. Being a fanboy/girl isn't a problem. Being blinded by it is. We all could be subjected to that, I'm sure I've been in the past (may still be about Mourinho actually)

For the love of god, woman. If you're going to post a gif of a chick in a bikini then do it right and make sure she doesn't have a size A cup. I'm sure the fellows would agree.

Being blinded by fanboying? Who gets to decide who is blinded by it and who isn't, you? What constitutes being blinded by fanboyism? Please tell me so I know. I don't want to blinded by fanboyism.

[Barbara 15,149]

For the love of god, woman. If you're going to post a gif of a chick in a bikini then do it right and make sure she doesn't have a size A cup. I'm sure the fellows would agree.

Being blinded by fanboying? Who gets to decide who is blinded by it and who isn't, you? What constitutes being blinded by fanboyism? Please tell me so I know. I don't want to blinded by fanboyism.

that's basically my body, so I guess it represents me well opening it

Surely I don't. Did I say member X, Y, A are blind fanboys? do I think there are some? Well I do simply because it's statistical, I'm not calling anyone specifically except me on Mourinho.

[Stingray 9,441]

I say wait with the champagne and get out the mud

[Stingray 9,441]

For the love of god, woman. If you're going to post a gif of a chick in a bikini then do it right and make sure she doesn't have a size A cup. I'm sure the fellows would agree.

YES !!! WE AGREE !!!

Ps: sorry ladies, I just could NOT resist this one ......

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

boobs in the Mata topic. best thread ever lol.

[Pizy 18,520]

Personally, I like smaller tits. So long as she's got a Jennifer Lopez ass.

I love where this thread has gone, LOL!

[edetarod 2,155]

[sutro 1,026]

YES !!! WE AGREE !!!

Ps: sorry ladies, I just could NOT resist this one ......

I was waiting for you ,it was just a matter of time wasnt it ?

[Stingray 9,441]

I was waiting for you ,it was just a matter of time wasnt it ?

Man, I REALLY tried to contain myself.

As for my punishment Chelseaboobs:

I repent my sins !!

[Pizy 18,520]

Imagine when that woman is like 50, though. Her chest will be swinging around her belly button.