Juan Mata

[Korea 734]

  On 26/11/2013 at 10:37, Sheva. said:

Laughable. Because 1 player in an attacking position is always to blame for others failures all over the pitch.

AVB fucked our season with his tactics and problems with the old guard the season we finished 6th. Mata and Sturridge were excellent by all measures before that.

I really will never understand this thinking that Mata is to blame for those past seasons, when we've had managers far worse than our current one this season, we have better depth than we've had in those seasons. Torres is playing better than he did in those past seasons. Just so many factors people like to ignore to suit their "agenda" (my new favourite word thanks to TOPTB).

Also about Ozil, i believe he played so much due to the lack of options, only old Kaka was his competition. He was always subbed early to his disapproval, and Mourinho has since said he tried to sign Kagawa and Oscar to compete with him.

Ozil played cause he was the best cam in the world. You believe cause you followed Real right? Your prob. dont.

He was subbed caused he didnt have good stamina and Barca, Real, United all tried to signed Oscar prior to Chelsea involvement.

I dont blame Juan Mata for the past 2 seasons. However, I dont hype Mata up to be world class like this board did with our players (esp. Luiz).

You should make more comments about how Chelsea played beautiful football last season. Even though we scored more goals in the month of Nov. already this season in comparison to last season.

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 26/11/2013 at 12:27, lionsden said:

Does it? well I rather prefer lazy and slow playmakers like Zidane,Riquelme,mata et al to the highly mobile workhorse, playmaker wannabe like Oscar.

Majority of legendary playmakers and DLP's of the past and present aren't known for their work rate. if you do your primary role incredibly well, it more than makes up for your deficiencies. I prefer my playmakers to excel at actually creating chances and playmaking rather than running around the pitch like headless chickens.

If we're talking about Zidane then you have to recognise the physicality of his game and out of our two playmakers, Oscar far more closely resembles that type of skill set than Mata in my opinion. I think you're portraying Oscar has simply being a workhorse when he's quite simply one of the best passers of a ball that we have in our team. He might not be making that final pass as consistently as Mata but he's remarkable at bringing other players into the game and he's also added goals to his game.

Ultimately it comes down to who makes us a better team. At the moment it's Oscar. I see people moaning about his lack of an end product and it reminds me of some of the criticism directed at Ronaldo in his first 100 games at United. But United had the will and the support of the fans to stick with a young player with amazing potential - it would be nice if our fans did the same.

[Korea 734]

  On 26/11/2013 at 12:27, lionsden said:

Does it? well I rather prefer lazy and slow playmakers like Zidane,Riquelme,mata et al to the highly mobile workhorse, playmaker wannabe like Oscar.

Majority of legendary playmakers and DLP's of the past and present aren't known for their work rate. if you do your primary role incredibly well, it more than makes up for your deficiencies. I prefer my playmakers to excel at actually creating chances and playmaking rather than running around the pitch like headless chickens.

Mourinho played Ozil at Real and Deco at Porto.

Mata was never known as a playmaker until Silva left Valencia. He was brought up to be a striker in Spain.

SO.....

[bushman 2,043]

Chelsea played beautiful football last season, when ?

Somehow, I lost my memory though,

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 26/11/2013 at 13:12, Korea said:

Ozil played cause he was the best cam in the world. You believe cause you followed Real right? Your prob. dont.

He was subbed caused he didnt have good stamina and Barca, Real, United all tried to signed Oscar prior to Chelsea involvement.

I dont blame Juan Mata for the past 2 seasons. However, I dont hype Mata up to be world class like this board did with our players (esp. Luiz).

You should make more comments about how Chelsea played beautiful football last season. Even though we scored more goals in the month of Nov. already this season in comparison to last season.

I watch Real more than any club after Chelsea, I know about his stamina problems, but the fact Mou wanted 2 good players in his position proves to me he wanted something different even though both would initially start out as backups

The last bit lol, and at the end of the season you can take any other 1month in isolation and we'll score less goals than last season.

[Korea 734]

  On 26/11/2013 at 13:22, Sheva. said:

I watch Real more than any club after Chelsea, I know about his stamina problems, but the fact Mou wanted 2 good players in his position proves to me he wanted something different even though both would initially start out as backups

The last bit lol, and at the end of the season you can take any other 1month in isolation and we'll score less goals than last season.

Well, Chelsea has struggled this month more than any month.

And the fact people want Oscar head for Chelsea struggle the past few games, So, Im just saying we scored more goals already in less games.

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 26/11/2013 at 10:37, Sheva. said:

I really will never understand this thinking that Mata is to blame for those past seasons, when we've had managers far worse than our current one this season, we have better depth than we've had in those seasons. Torres is playing better than he did in those past seasons. Just so many factors people like to ignore to suit their "agenda" (my new favourite word thanks to TOPTB).

You seem to be confused. People don't blame Mata for that season, but they recognise there might be a connection between the tactics that brought Mata good stats and us having poor seasons in the league. Often the attack and defence were like complete strangers and we very rarely looked like a proper team. We'd have to hope for moments of inspiration from one of our attackers whereas now we're actually looking like 11 players pulling in the same direction.

Oscar has been key to that in my opinion because he knits the team together so well. He might not be the playmaker some people want but he might just be the playmaker we need.

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 26/11/2013 at 13:28, The only place to be said:

You seem to be confused. People don't blame Mata for that season, but they recognise there might be a connection between the tactics that brought Mata good stats and us having poor seasons in the league. Often the attack and defence were like complete strangers and we very rarely looked like a proper team. We'd have to hope for moments of inspiration from one of our attackers whereas now we're actually looking like 11 players pulling in the same direction.

Oscar has been key to that in my opinion because he knits the team together so well. He might not be the playmaker some people want but he might just be the playmaker we need.

There is no confusion, people could have mentioned tactics but no, they talk about Mata and how he was "only" the best player on a 6th placed side.

And since I am no mind reader I only talk on what they post, not what you think they meant.

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 26/11/2013 at 13:25, Korea said:

Well, Chelsea has struggled this month more than any month.

And the fact people want Oscar head for Chelsea struggle the past few games, So, Im just saying we scored more goals already in less games.

Fair enough. But we have a better manager and better depth than previous seasons, an improvement in our November fortunes should be expected.

[yuvala 2,167]

  On 26/11/2013 at 12:43, Sidzeret said:

December could decide his future at Chelsea. With 9 games, i'm sure Mata will get atleast 5 starts.

He need to perform the way the team needs him, on the wings or in the hole. Performance guarantees his place in the starting eleven.

or he is as good as gone in Jan. No pressure, Juan

I seriously doubt that..

[Korea 734]

  On 26/11/2013 at 12:43, Sidzeret said:

December could decide his future at Chelsea. With 9 games, i'm sure Mata will get atleast 5 starts.

He need to perform the way the team needs him, on the wings or in the hole. Performance guarantees his place in the starting eleven.

or he is as good as gone in Jan. No pressure, Juan

He would be lucky to get 5 appearances.

[Sheva. 5,373]

9 games, 1 CC game = 1 start

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 26/11/2013 at 10:37, Sheva. said:

Laughable. Because 1 player in an attacking position is always to blame for others failures all over the pitch.

AVB fucked our season with his tactics and problems with the old guard the season we finished 6th. Mata and Sturridge were excellent by all measures before that.

I really will never understand this thinking that Mata is to blame for those past seasons, when we've had managers far worse than our current one this season, we have better depth than we've had in those seasons. Torres is playing better than he did in those past seasons. Just so many factors people like to ignore to suit their "agenda" (my new favourite word thanks to TOPTB).

Also about Ozil, i believe he played so much due to the lack of options, only old Kaka was his competition. He was always subbed early to his disapproval, and Mourinho has since said he tried to sign Kagawa and Oscar to compete with him.

When has anyone said Mata is to blame for those two season's? in the first he probably saved us from a shootout for 8th place against Kenny's Liverpool and in the second he was amazing aswell.

That doesn't change the fact that we were a cup team riddled with inconsistency's and had a unbalanced team, we need to change tact this season and be winning regularly in the league, we have won 10 of our last 13 games, i could be wrong but we haven't had a run as strong at that since the beginning of 10/11 have we?

Our reliance on Mata last season and especially the season before just wasn't healthy, we were literally fully relying on him to be on his game or we would almost certainly drop points, times have changed now and he has to fight for his place like anyone else (Oscar and Hazard have also been dropped in games this season aswell). We didn't go on consistent winning run's because of our reliance on Mata, not because of Mata.

Also a few people touched up on Mata's weakness before (a lot were in denial because of how reliant we were on him) a lot didn't want him to start at the Nou Camp and i personally wouldn't have started him against City even last season (that club have been his Achilles heel ever since he joined us, a bit like Arsenal were Zola's). I remember Styles often touched up on this issue and got a pasting for it.

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 26/11/2013 at 12:27, lionsden said:

Does it? well I rather prefer lazy and slow playmakers like Zidane,Riquelme,mata et al to the highly mobile workhorse, playmaker wannabe like Oscar.

Out of interest, if you were Scolari would Coutinho be playing ahead of Oscar?

[lionsden 4,689]

  On 26/11/2013 at 14:57, Tomo said:

Out of interest, if you were Scolari would Coutinho be playing ahead of Oscar?

Without a shadow of a doubt and as long as Coutinho shows consistency and competency required, he keeps his place. Coutinho is a playmaker and oscar isn't. . . .his skillset is more suited to that of a B2B midfielder and that's how he plays to me.

I will however say that oscar has been very consistent for Brazil and no doubt deserves to start in the team just not as my playmaker behind the strikers.

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 26/11/2013 at 15:11, lionsden said:

Without a shadow of a doubt and as long as Coutinho shows consistency and competency required, he keeps his place. Coutinho is a playmaker and oscar isn't. . . .his skillset is more suited to that of a B2B midfielder and that's how he plays to me.

I will however say that oscar has been very consistent for Brazil and no doubt deserves to start in the team just not as my playmaker behind the strikers.

I think you're being fairly absurd with this contention that Oscar isn't a playmaker. He's a young man who has been given a lot of responsibility this season and he hasn't shirked it - in fact he's stepped up when other players haven't and carried the team at times.

The fact that he can put in a decent shift shouldn't detract from his abilities to bring other players into the game.

[lionsden 4,689]

  On 26/11/2013 at 15:26, The only place to be said:

I think you're being fairly absurd with this contention that Oscar isn't a playmaker. He's a young man who has been given a lot of responsibility this season and he hasn't shirked it - in fact he's stepped up when other players haven't and carried the team at times.

The fact that he can put in a decent shift shouldn't detract from his abilities to bring other players into the game.

Nothing absurd about how I see a playmaker. it's a matter of opinion and job title doesn't neccessarily define a players skillset. I have seen some playmakers in my time the likes of Valderrama, zidane, rui costa, Iniesta, scholes,riquelme, ozil and so on. His job title says one thing but his skillset and how he's always played the game right from his under 20 champ and internacional days tells me something else. it's a matter of personal taste and opinion. . . .I know what I want in a playmaker and he simply doesn't fit that profile at all. you and others are welcome to disagree. each individual sees the game differently.

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 26/11/2013 at 15:39, lionsden said:

Nothing absurd about how I see a playmaker. it's a matter of opinion and job title doesn't neccessarily define a players skillset. I have seen some playmakers in my time the likes of Valderrama, zidane, rui costa, Iniesta, scholes,riquelme, ozil and so on. His job title says one thing but his skillset and how he's always played the game right from his under 20 champ and internacional days tells me something else. it's a matter of personal taste and opinion. . . .I know what I want in a playmaker and he simply doesn't fit that profile at all. you and others are welcome to disagree. each individual sees the game differently.

I've seen those same playmakers (although they're wildly different types of playmakers - Scholes would probably be considered a deep-lying playmaker nowadays in the mould of Alonso or Schweinsteiger, whilst someone like Rui Costa was much more advanced) and more an I'd not hesitate in calling Oscar a playmaker. In fact if you're going to throw Iniesta in there then I don't see why you're disagreeing about Oscar. In terms of the way they play the game and their production on the pitch, they're very similar.

You may want something different in a playmaker, but I don't know if we'd be a better team if went with what you wanted. I enjoyed watching Mata play over the last couple of years but I prefer seeing us play as a team rather than a collection of talented individuals.

Oscar is the epitome of a team player. He makes the guy next to him a better player and he works his bollocks off for the team. I think that's invaluable, and apparently Jose does too.