Mikel John Obi

[Johnny Kills 164]

Am still yet to be convinced by most posters, mikel retains possession far better than ramires and is more comfortable on the ball than even lampard, infact that's his greatest strength so when you say we do not boss midfield because of a Defensive midfielder it sounds odd when we have arguably 4 other midfielders ahead of him especially when he is not even a DLP and has a great burden trying to defend, that's like saying gareth barry is responsible for city's dominating football or scot parker for tottenham for me possession is the responsibility of the team and some teams are better than others because its basically their style of play e.g barca, bayern, juve but certainly has not been our style of play in this Roman era. And for all points made i will take posters that criticise chelsea players who ever they may be at face value except the manager who trains this players says so or does something to suggest such.

This...has....nothing...to...do...with....why...we...get....dominated. He doesn't read the game well (this is self evident when watching the likes of Bastian, J Martinez, Sergio , h he doesn't tackle well, he lets the opposition pass the ball around rather than go get it back rather than Essien (in this preseason anyway. This is the man that's supposed to protect our defense and he becomes a passenger when we get dominated.

[The Rising Sun 696]

The problem with Mikel is that he marks spaces, not players.

The sad fact is that his style of play also doesnt pay dividends for the team as opposition players are faster than him, so marking space rather than the player is counter productive for him.

When he does get the ball, he doesnt utilise space or vision, but makes passes that are not truly transitionary.

Even once he passes to any player around him, passing it back to him does not progress the play.....rather it starts that Loop again by which time our transition is slowed down.

This is not a positive characteristic, and not that safe either.

I dont trust him to even come on the pitch at 70 mins to close out a game. Stats are merely stats, and dont always truly reflect an overall picture of a players effect on a game.

Torres got 22 goals last season and that as a stat is decent, but when you analyse it then it tells a different story. IMO its the same with Mikel.

He is statistically alright, but effectiveness and progressiveness is what he lacks in.

Im glad essien has shown that he can put a good shift in and looking at him it really shows where Mikel is lacking for us.

MVG is another one who shows what characteristics can make a DM progressive in our plays.

Not to forget Ramires.

[meetdoscar 335]

Critics always find a way don't they???

[Duppy Conqueror 1,451]

Just popped by to see if anything new was being said..Will try again in a few weeks..

[Magic Lamps 11,450]

The problem with Mikel is, he is just not that hard-working destroyer you need for a DP. Mikel is almost majestic in his laziness. He is King when it comes to sit deep, guard space and calm down the play but he seldom tends to make some main points offensively or in transition. When he got hard working players next to him like he had with Belletti or Ballack in 2009/10 or usually when Essien was not injured, he was simply beast. That is also why a Mikel-Ramires pivot is ok defensively, just not very creative. Mikel is our best DM, cos he is almost our only one. If we want to finish 2nd or 3rd with a decent run in the CL and maybe an FA Cup win, that is ok. If we want to challenge for the very big prizes, we need a serious upgrade on him...

[Johnny Kills 164]

I feel like whenever the anti-Mikel people make points about how/why Mikel is so bad and it's the truth, the Mikel supporters just choose to ignore the thread or just say "i can't do this anymore, you just don't get it" until it's time for someone to mention a bad point as to why Mikel is bad and then they jump all over him and say "SEE! LOOK AT HOW DUMB THIS ARGUMENT IS! YOU'RE SO WRONG".

Someone wrote up a beautiful analysis, season to season, about how Mikel was involved in the squad since he's been here and fucking NO ONE came in here and said anything about (referring to the regular, big posters). The hypocrisy of both sides when it comes to the use of stats has also been bad. Not because the stats themselves are bad but because the stats don't agree with their own agenda... until they find stats of their own. Some came in here and posted SeB's great analysis of PL midfielders and how Mikel stacks up against them. Having Mikel works if we're trying to win the PL because the PL is easily the weakest of the top 4 leagues when it comes to that area. We really only have Yaya Toure and Fellaini, and even Fellaini gets debated as to how effective he is when he plays deep. We are not just trying to win England though, are we? We want the motherfucking Champions League every single season. We want to win the UEFA Super Cup and the Club World Cup. We are not a top 5 club in the world presently because of our pivot. That is a fact people. Even if we switch to a 4-3-3, Mikel will still need to be replaced.

[Naked Mole Rat 437]

I feel like whenever the anti-Mikel people make points about how/why Mikel is so bad and it's the truth, the Mikel supporters just choose to ignore the thread or just say "i can't do this anymore, you just don't get it" until it's time for someone to mention a bad point as to why Mikel is bad and then they jump all over him and say "SEE! LOOK AT HOW DUMB THIS ARGUMENT IS! YOU'RE SO WRONG".

Someone wrote up a beautiful analysis, season to season, about how Mikel was involved in the squad since he's been here and fucking NO ONE came in here and said anything about (referring to the regular, big posters). The hypocrisy of both sides when it comes to the use of stats has also been bad. Not because the stats themselves are bad but because the stats don't agree with their own agenda... until they find stats of their own. Some came in here and posted SeB's great analysis of PL midfielders and how Mikel stacks up against them. Having Mikel works if we're trying to win the PL because the PL is easily the weakest of the top 4 leagues when it comes to that area. We really only have Yaya Toure and Fellaini, and even Fellaini gets debated as to how effective he is when he plays deep. We are not just trying to win England though, are we? We want the motherfucking Champions League every single season. We want to win the UEFA Super Cup and the Club World Cup. We are not a top 5 club in the world presently because of our pivot. That is a fact people. Even if we switch to a 4-3-3, Mikel will still need to be replaced.

This has little to do with Mikel, but do you even know what a fact is?

[Johnny Kills 164]

This has little to do with Mikel, but do you even know what a fact is?

Our MF has nothing to do with Mikel? Yea, you're right.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

We are not a top 5 club in the world presently because of our pivot. That is a fact people.

No, that's an opinion/analysis.

[Naked Mole Rat 437]

Our MF has nothing to do with Mikel? Yea, you're right.

I was referring to what I was about to ask.

Anyway, a bold opinion is still an opinion. You won't be able to strengthen your point or convince people you're telling the truth by claiming that your opinions are facts. To be honest, I think it makes you look stupid more than anything because you should have figured out how to distinguish a fact from an opinion when you were five. I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets annoyed when he reads a YouTube comment that goes like "[insert opinion]. FACT." I don't actually think that you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion. I just wanted to point out that you were making a mistake.

Also, one more thing. I don't appreciate it when people throw sarcastic remarks at me like you did, and that's another habit you probably don't want to develop, because it really can bring out the ugly side of some people.

[Johnny Kills 164]

I was referring to what I was about to ask.

Anyway, a bold opinion is still an opinion. You won't be able to strengthen your point or convince people you're telling the truth by claiming that your opinions are facts. To be honest, I think it makes you look stupid more than anything because you should have figured out how to distinguish a fact from an opinion when you were five. I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets annoyed when he reads a YouTube comment that goes like "[insert opinion]. FACT." I don't actually think that you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion. I just wanted to point out that you were making a mistake.

Also, one more thing. I don't appreciate it when people throw sarcastic remarks at me like you did, and that's another habit you probably don't want to develop, because it really can bring out the ugly side of some people.

You don't appreciate people throwing sarcastic remarks at you, but you're allowed to say I look stupid, I'm doing something I'm not supposed to be doing because normal people learn the difference at 5 years old. You're insulting someone who you've never spoken to in your life, but I'm the one that's offending you? Thank you for wasting my time, arguing semantics instead of engaging in a discussion how I'm wrong football wise.

[Kojo 4,676]

To be honest I'm not bothered anymore, I've been wanting Mikel gone for a very long time, and I've started many arguements on this thread.

But all in all this ones up to Jose, if Mikel is going to play he will play, I'm going to trust Mourinho on this.

[Johnny Kills 164]

No, that's an opinion/analysis.

How? BVB, Madrid, Barcelona, Juve, Bayern. Our back 5 is in the same tier. So is the creativitiy. What is it then? Our strikers? Bayern and Juve don't have world class strikers, not at all. Matri, Quag, Matri, Gomez are nothing to rave about (I don't wanna put Mandzukic's name in here because I wasn't watching Bayern when he was playing this season). What is common with all of these teams? Their strength with their central midfielders. The pivots of Bayern, BVB and Madrid are the best in the world. Juve have Marchisio and Vidal and Barcelona has Busquets. We have Mikel, Ramires, MVG, and Essien. How is this not fact? Because you don't want it to be?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

How? BVB, Madrid, Barcelona, Juve, Bayern. Our back 5 is in the same tier. So is the creativitiy. What is it then? Our strikers? Bayern and Juve don't have world class strikers, not at all. Matri, Quag, Matri, Gomez are nothing to rave about (I don't wanna put Mandzukic's name in here because I wasn't watching Bayern when he was playing this season). What is common with all of these teams? Their strength with their central midfielders. The pivots of Bayern, BVB and Madrid are the best in the world. Juve have Marchisio and Vidal and Barcelona has Busquets. We have Mikel, Ramires, MVG, and Essien. How is this not fact? Because you don't want it to be?

Just one question, if things are that simple in football, why do teams have managers? It's not just about players, but finding the right combination and creating the system that fits them.

What stopped us from being one of the best teams last season? A LOT of things, imo. First is the complete lack of defensive system; we were defending as individuals rather than a team. Then there was the serious lack of squad depth in a a crazy season. Offensively, our biggest issues were the distances between our lines being too big making the transition from defense to offense very difficult, and the lack of width we had really hurt us against team who packed the box. As well as other factors like the constant changes in the back four, lacking a CB good enough to be starter next to Luiz, no one from the front four dropping back enough to receive the ball, not having any pivot players that fit the system we were playing..etc

Football is not that simple that you can just pinpoint one problem with the team and you can solve it and turn into one of the best teams in Europe overnight. Club pay millions for managers and even they can't locate and solve all the problems. But of course that just my opinion, it's not a fact and neither was what you stated.

[bleed_blue 136]

Just one question, if things are that simple in football, why do teams have managers? It's not just about players, but finding the right combination and creating the system that fits them.

What stopped us from being one of the best teams last season? A LOT of things, imo. First is the complete lack of defensive system; we were defending as individuals rather than a team. Then there was the serious lack of squad depth in a a crazy season. Offensively, our biggest issues were the distances between our lines being too big making the transition from defense to offense very difficult, and the lack of width we had really hurt us against team who packed the box. As well as other factors like the constant changes in the back four, lacking a CB good enough to be starter next to Luiz, no one from the front four dropping back enough to receive the ball, not having any pivot players that fit the system we were playing..etc

Football is not that simple that you can just pinpoint one problem with the team and you can solve it and turn into one of the best teams in Europe overnight. Club pay millions for managers and even they can't locate and solve all the problems. But of course that just my opinion, it's not a fact and neither was what you stated.

Conceded 1.61 goals per game when mikel started, 0.81 goals per game when he did not. Seems like the MAJOR problem has been identified.

[Clevemayer 764]

To be honest I'm not bothered anymore, I've been wanting Mikel gone for a very long time, and I've started many arguements on this thread.

But all in all this ones up to Jose, if Mikel is going to play he will play, I'm going to trust Mourinho on this.

if true you've learned a big lesson how to add to a discussion...

that was my point there is no reason in talking the same stuff again and again...

[Phil Driver 503]

Is he injured again?

It would seem that of the returning confederations cup players,Mikel is the one who has not played,realisation will be here soon for those who have not worked it out yet,all the clues are there and Mikel will be on the bench picking up his generous wage courtesy of Emenalo for another four years if he wants to.

It is obvious the Galatasary interest was a red herring planted by his agent,nobody wants him on those wages,inc. Mourinho and he was for sale ,Ramires said he was phoned by Mourinho and told of his value to Chelsea,I doubt Mikel has got the same assurance and crunch time is here and all is about to be revealed. Mourinho is not silly,nor was the waiter ,he wanted Ramires too at Napoli ,hence Mourinho contacting Ramires to remind him of his value to Chelsea.

It will be good for us as a club to see the manager in control of the team and who plays once again and Mikel's non selection will be further evidence of this .

In Jose we trust .

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Conceded 1.61 goals per game when mikel started, 0.81 goals per game when he did not. Seems like the MAJOR problem has been identified.

Chelsea had, let's say, 10-12 really difficult games last season. (The top 4 competitors and Juventus home and away, Shakhtar away, and maybe you could call games like Everton or Liverppol away there as well). We played around 7 of those matches in the first 21 games. We played about 5 more in the next 47 games. (This is why "Benitez' success" drives me crazy. The schedule he had overall was ridiculously easy.) Chelsea had a large number of really easy games last season (around 25 games against teams that were bottom of the Premier League or lower caliber). Mikel started one game in the Carling Cup and it was against ManU. He started two games in the FA Cup and they were against ManU and Man City. He started 4 games in the UCL and they were the Juventus and Shakhtar starts. He started 19 games in the league and 12 of them were against top-10 teams. Of the 8 easiest games against Championship and First division sides, and Nordjaelland, Mikel started none of them (Moses, on the other hand, started 6 of them). .We gave up more goals when Mikel started because Mikel started a huge percentage of his games against top teams and none of his games against the worst teams so yes, it's harder to hold Juventus, Arsenal and ManU down than it is to hold Brentford, Leeds, and Sparta Prague.