Mikel John Obi

[mountaineerfly 10]

The argument that we win more games when mikel is not playing is very short sighted. There could be other factors leading to this stat.

It's just as stupid as saying that because Team A beat team B, and team B beat team C, then automatically team A is going to beat team C

[bushman 2,043]

Mikel has not performed well, recently.

Personally, if Chelsea can get around 10m for him, let him go.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The argument that we win more games when mikel is not playing is very short sighted. There could be other factors leading to this stat.

It's just as stupid as saying that because Team A beat team B, and team B beat team C, then automatically team A is going to beat team C

Of course it is. Most teams usually have a much better win percentage with young players instead of senior ones and backup GKs instead of first choice because those players only get game time against weaker teams most of the time. Just like Barcelona, up until last season, had 100% win record when Messi doesn't play in 2 or 3 consecutive seasons..etc

[bleed_blue 136]

Of course it is. Most teams usually have a much better win percentage with young players instead of senior ones and backup GKs instead of first choice because those players only get game time against weaker teams most of the time. Just like Barcelona, up until last season, had 100% win record when Messi doesn't play in 2 or 3 consecutive seasons..etc

Are you actually this daft?

Messi playa in about 55 games n misses 5-10 games per season.

A regular gk starts 90-95% games while 2nd gk starts abt 5%.

mikel started 32 and missed 37 in last season. A person with half a brain will know the difference between these two scenarios.

[Reddish-Blue 2,225]

Mikel has not performed well, recently.

Personally, if Chelsea can get around 10m for him, let him go.

I say keep Mikel for at least one more season.

I just want to see Mikel given a bit of freedom under Mourinho's tactics...

There's no doubting that Mikel is a solid midfielder..but for me, the problem with Mikel as a DM seems to be positioning and/or lack of workrate on the defensive end.

[The Rising Sun 696]

Great Backup player. We should keep him as cover.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Are you actually this daft?

Messi playa in about 55 games n misses 5-10 games per season.

A regular gk starts 90-95% games while 2nd gk starts abt 5%.

mikel started 32 and missed 37 in last season. A person with half a brain will know the difference between these two scenarios.

Look at what games Luiz started in the pivot. You yourself (I think) posted them a few pages back. They're all relatively easy and you'd expect us to win the vast majority of them even with a few first team players missing.

[bushman 2,043]

I say keep Mikel for at least one more season.

I just want to see Mikel given a bit of freedom under Mourinho's tactics...

There's no doubting that Mikel is a solid midfielder..but for me, the problem with Mikel as a DM seems to be positioning and/or lack of workrate on the defensive end.

As I said, 10m for Mikel, I would sell. For 10m plus 2-3m Chelsea can get better DM.

[bleed_blue 136]

Look at what games Luiz started in the pivot. You yourself (I think) posted them a few pages back. They're all relatively easy and you'd expect us to win the vast majority of them even with a few first team players missing.

Why are you shifting goalposts now from mikel to luiz?

Once again, since it has to be told to you a 100 times for your brain to process, here is the gist of it:

Luiz started a lot of his games in midfield vs non-top level teams. Chelsea did well in those games => Luiz was an asset in midfield whenever given an opportunity, however he is yet to be tested vs top teams. This does not give anybody the liberty to say that "luiz in midfield experiment failed". Anybody saying that needs to learn things about logical conclusions and interpretations.

one more point,

the 19 games that Mikel started for us in PL last season, the average league position of our opposition was 10.3

the 19 games that Mikel did not start for us in PL last season, the average league position of our opposition was 11.5

That is not a very big difference in difficulty level of opposition.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Why are you shifting goalposts now from mikel to luiz?

Because that's what he does. Luiz is a defender who was deployed in midfield because he gave far more effort than Mikel was capable of. He played about a dozen games there, lacked the fitness to do so for 90 minutes so why not compare him to Mikel?

Choulo slagged off Van Ginkel after less than 100 minutes of pre-season friendlies purely to defend Mikel. I simply don't get this mentality. If Mikel was even close to being the player that some people on here describe him as then the supporters would love him, but there's this amazing thing that happens right now. You can go up to any Chelsea supporter, say Mikel's shit and they'll agree 99% of the time. Happened to me in the pub on Friday and it made me chortle.

[bleed_blue 136]

Because that's what he does. Luiz is a defender who was deployed in midfield because he gave far more effort than Mikel was capable of. He played about a dozen games there, lacked the fitness to do so for 90 minutes so why not compare him to Mikel?

Choulo slagged off Van Ginkel after less than 100 minutes of pre-season friendlies purely to defend Mikel. I simply don't get this mentality. If Mikel was even close to being the player that some people on here describe him as then the supporters would love him, but there's this amazing thing that happens right now. You can go up to any Chelsea supporter, say Mikel's shit and they'll agree 99% of the time. Happened to me in the pub on Friday and it made me chortle.

more on Luiz.

With Luiz in midfield, we beat Southampton 5-1 in FA cup. That incidentally was our only win over the saints in 3 meetings last season. The other two games where Luiz did not play in midfield, we lost 1 and drew the other.

Our only win against Swansea came when Luiz played in midfield in the PL home game.

Choulo19, you need to work harder for your counter examples.

[meetdoscar 335]

Mikel is that type of player mou respects when he says he likes the sort of player that plays to his limit. Mikel has placed his team before and above his initial career as a No. 10 by playing DM for chelsea to the best of his ability. For me that shows how great a player he is and his trophies with chelsea speaks for itself. Mikel is also obviously one of the more technically gifted players in our team in terms of possession and holding the ball. If what mikel does is so easy why don't we play lampard or ramires out of position as DM and see how it goes. If i where him having won all with chelsea I'd move elsewhere to play No. 10 or CAM as am sure he will shine as he does for nigeria But as a chelsea fan I hope we do not make the same mistake madrid did with makelele.

[bushman 2,043]

Some say, Chelsea are playing Mikel in the wrong position. He should play as AM like he does for Nigeria.

Well, it makes me laugh when I read, Hazard, Mata & Oscar. That says it all.

If Mikel stays, he competes against Frank, Van Ginkel & Essien. Let´s be honest here. How can he succeed here ?

Mikel can not even hit the net, never mind scoring a goal. He has won with Chelsea, let him go now.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Because that's what he does. Luiz is a defender who was deployed in midfield because he gave far more effort than Mikel was capable of. He played about a dozen games there, lacked the fitness to do so for 90 minutes so why not compare him to Mikel?

Choulo slagged off Van Ginkel after less than 100 minutes of pre-season friendlies purely to defend Mikel. I simply don't get this mentality. If Mikel was even close to being the player that some people on here describe him as then the supporters would love him, but there's this amazing thing that happens right now. You can go up to any Chelsea supporter, say Mikel's shit and they'll agree 99% of the time. Happened to me in the pub on Friday and it made me chortle.

I'm not the one who brought Luiz in the comparison, I was replying to his comparison of our win percentage with Mikel in midfield as opposed to Luiz there a few pages back (or in the Luiz thread, I can't remember). On any account, the point I was making is not particularly about Mikel but that you can't compare the team's results only with and without a player because there are countless other variables.

And I did not "slag off" Van Ginkel. I criticized his passing in the first two games then praised his passing and overall performance in the third game, and it's certainly not because of Mikel who plays in a different position. The mentality that I don't get is you trying to take what I say out of context instead of answering the actual argument. It's like you think you're running against me for president or something You do realize that this is just a forum and that neither of us will win anything, right?

more on Luiz.

With Luiz in midfield, we beat Southampton 5-1 in FA cup. That incidentally was our only win over the saints in 3 meetings last season. The other two games where Luiz did not play in midfield, we lost 1 and drew the other.

Our only win against Swansea came when Luiz played in midfield in the PL home game.

Choulo19, you need to work harder for your counter examples.

Again, you're making the exact same logical fallacy again. You can't compare the result alone with and without a certain player because there are thousands of other variables involved.

[bleed_blue 136]

I'm not the one who brought Luiz in the comparison, I was replying to his comparison of our win percentage with Mikel in midfield as opposed to Luiz there a few pages back (or in the Luiz thread, I can't remember). On any account, the point I was making is not particularly about Mikel but that you can't compare the team's results only with and without a player because there are countless other variables.

And I did not "slag off" Van Ginkel. I criticized his passing in the first two games then praised his passing and overall performance in the third game, and it's certainly not because of Mikel who plays in a different position. The mentality that I don't get is you trying to take what I say out of context instead of answering the actual argument. It's like you think you're running against me for president or something You do realize that this is just a forum and that neither of us will win anything, right?

Again, you're making the exact same logical fallacy again. You can't compare the result alone with and without a certain player because there are thousands of other variables involved.

How slow are you??

You put forward the statement that " the games we won with Luiz in DM, we would have won them otherwise".

I gave you counter examples.

Reg. your other point, Comparison is useful when made between two sets with substantial and comparable data points.

Like 32 games vs 37 games

Not Messi starting 55 games vs missing 5 games

Regular GK starting 55 games vs 2nd GK starting 3 games

@meetdoscar: That claude makelele defense is getting old. Reg. your statement that why dont we play ramires n lampard out of position, we did that last year and the results were much better. Keep up.

[The Skipper 20,593]

I personally think Jose has faith in him, and that's why we're probably not buying another midfielder.

He certainly has the ability, so it'll be interesting to see how he plays under Mourinho. I think he can be a beast under the right circumstances and given the right role.

[bleed_blue 136]

I personally think Jose has faith in him, and that's why we're probably not buying another midfielder.

He certainly has the ability, so it'll be interesting to see how he plays under Mourinho. I think he can be a beast under the right circumstances and given the right role.

A Beast on the bench it is then.

[bushman 2,043]

A Beast on the bench it is then.

Passing water too.