Mikel John Obi

[CHOULO19 24,332]

How slow are you?? You put forward the statement that " the games we won with Luiz in DM, we would have won them otherwise". I gave you counter examples.

And that statement is still true because the games in the league are completely different than the one in the cup. We didn't draw the games in the league because of Mikel just like we did not win the game in the cup solely because of Luiz. I would still expect us to win all those games with both Mikel or Luiz.

Comparison is useful when made between two sets with substantial and comparable data points.

No, I don't think it is. Because this is football.There are countless variables that change from game to game besides players like tactics and player roles, physical and mental readiness of the players, the crowd, the ref and even sheer luck at times. Stats are good to back up a point you made by observation, but they can't your whole argument especially if they're as vague and frankly quite useless as win percentage with and without a player.

[Azpinator 2,325]

I can't remember any top club to even inquire about him in the last couple of years, which tells you how good of a player he is... unless you consider Galatasaray a top club.

[ANDRECHO 432]

Mikel is a good player , but he is not Top comparing with , De Rossi,Xavi Alonso,Yaya toure, Busquets, Schweinsteiger ...

[bleed_blue 136]

And that statement is still true because the games in the league are completely different than the one in the cup. We didn't draw the games in the league because of Mikel just like we did not win the game in the cup solely because of Luiz. I would still expect us to win all those games with both Mikel or Luiz.

No, I don't think it is. Because this is football.There are countless variables that change from game to game besides players like tactics and player roles, physical and mental readiness of the players, the crowd, the ref and even sheer luck at times. Stats are good to back up a point you made by observation, but they can't your whole argument especially if they're as vague and frankly quite useless as win percentage with and without a player.

"I would still expect us to win those games with Luiz or Mikel"

Unfortunately, football does not work on how YOU think. It is played on the field and the results of last year seem to be exactly opposite to how YOU think.

These variables you listed down, they average up over a period and a season is long enough.

You come up with arguments like

1. "Mikel is good at defending the back four"

I disagree and back my statement with the fact that we conceded 1.53 goals per game when Mikel started last season vs 0.89 goals when he did not start. Surely, I have a stronger argument.

2. "Mikel lets our attacking players to concentrate on their strengths and hence benefits the team"

I disagree and back my statement with the fact that we scored 1.6 goals per game when Mikel started last season vs 2.51 goals per game when he did not start.

Surely, I have a stronger argument

3. "Mikel played games against tougher opposition "

I tell you that the average league standings of our PL opponents when Mikel started was 10.3 vs 11.5 when he did not start. That is not a big enough difference surely?

4. "Mikel has superior positional sense, is strong physically"

That is the most subjective thing you can say about a player. Even if I were to agree with you (which I don't), good positional awareness, physical strengths are not the end game unless you use those qualities to add to your performance on the pitch.

Considering the fact that

Chelsea win more games when mikel does not start.

Chelsea lose fewer games when mikel does not start

Chelsea score more goals when mikel does not start

Chelsea concede fewer goals when mikel does not start

He sure as hell is not using those qualities which you think he has.

You guys have not even a single solid reason, all hot air.

[meetdoscar 335]

Whow.....so much luv to a player must be personal or may be some just know more than the best coaches in the world.

[bleed_blue 136]

Whow.....so much luv to a player must be personal or may be some just know more than the best coaches in the world.

Do you have memory issues?

That coaches argument was countered a few pages back.

[meetdoscar 335]

.

[meetdoscar 335]

Do you have memory issues?

That coaches argument was countered a few pages back.

Its you again.....you must be my shadow

[bushman 2,043]

Some say, Mikel is valuable, some can not see him hitting the net though.

Certainly, if I remember correctly he even caused Chelsea to pay over 10- 12m to Manures. He signed for United, too.

I believe, his price was 16m, then. Now, I do not mean to be disrespectful of him, but he is not worth it. The kid Van Ginkel went for 8m & I bet he will be better. Let´s see what Mikel does in America, soon. I still prefer to see him go & allocate the money for better DM.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

"I would still expect us to win those games with Luiz or Mikel"

Unfortunately, football does not work on how YOU think. It is played on the field and the results of last year seem to be exactly opposite to how YOU think.

These variables you listed down, they average up over a period and a season is long enough.

You come up with arguments like

1. "Mikel is good at defending the back four"

I disagree and back my statement with the fact that we conceded 1.53 goals per game when Mikel started last season vs 0.89 goals when he did not start. Surely, I have a stronger argument.

2. "Mikel lets our attacking players to concentrate on their strengths and hence benefits the team"

I disagree and back my statement with the fact that we scored 1.6 goals per game when Mikel started last season vs 2.51 goals per game when he did not start.

Surely, I have a stronger argument

3. "Mikel played games against tougher opposition "

I tell you that the average league standings of our PL opponents when Mikel started was 10.3 vs 11.5 when he did not start. That is not a big enough difference surely?

4. "Mikel has superior positional sense, is strong physically"

That is the most subjective thing you can say about a player. Even if I were to agree with you (which I don't), good positional awareness, physical strengths are not the end game unless you use those qualities to add to your performance on the pitch.

Considering the fact that

Chelsea win more games when mikel does not start.

Chelsea lose fewer games when mikel does not start

Chelsea score more goals when mikel does not start

Chelsea concede fewer goals when mikel does not start

He sure as hell is not using those qualities which you think he has.

You guys have not even a single solid reason, all hot air.

And my counter argument to that is this: http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/13977-john-mikel-obi-the-keystone/

We've been through all the arguments countless times. You predicted that Jose will sell Mikel and now you predict that he will be benched. I think he will be a key player for the team just like he's been for the past four seasons. Let's wait and see if football works like I think it does.

[meetdoscar 335]

Mikel isn't stopping chelsea from signing any DM in the world. If you must hate then hate the coaches or the board or who ever the hell buys and sells players because we have the money to sign almost any player we want and if they did not sign a DM its their fault because poor mikel knows nothing about that. This taunting makes no sense

[bushman 2,043]

Personally, I wouldn´t call it taunting. Mostly, it´s a speculation here & folks are posting their opinions, that is all.

Whether he stays or not, only time will tell.

[zolayes 14,489]

And my counter argument to that is this: http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/13977-john-mikel-obi-the-keystone/

We've been through all the arguments countless times. You predicted that Jose will sell Mikel and now you predict that he will be benched. I think he will be a key player for the team just like he's been for the past four seasons. Let's wait and see if football works like I think it does.

a few posts ago you were stating statistics were irrelevant ,,,now your main point is pages of stats

[CHOULO19 24,332]

a few posts ago you were stating statistics were irrelevant ,,,now your main point is pages of stats

I said they can't be your sole argument but instead they're something you use to back a point that you've made from observations and that is exactly what that article by SeB does. Stats can be manipulated to support almost any opinion, but they can also be very insightful. Depends on how you use them.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I said they can't be your sole argument but instead they're something you use to back a point that you've made from observations and that is exactly what that article by SeB does. Stats can be manipulated to support almost any opinion, but they can also be very insightful. Depends on how you use them.

Support Choulo's opinion = Very insightful.

Don't support Choulo's opinion = Clearly manipulated.

[bleed_blue 136]

So last season

I OBSERVED that chelsea were performing better when Mikel did not play. I back that up with stats that

Chelsea won fewer games with Mikel

Chelsea lost more games with Mikel

Chelsea scored fewer goals with Mikel

Chelsea conceded more goals with Mikel

But you are right, they are clearly manipulated.

Regarding that article by SeB, are you this naive not to understand that our football has evolved. We no longer have Drogba upfront. Over the past two summers, we have brought in players like Mata, Oscar, Hazard. The defending with 10 men behind the ball days are over at Chelsea.

That article is a complete hogwash in the present context, and frankly having read so many of your posts on this forum, I dont think you have the ability to understand this bit.

and regarding Jose selling Mikel, I have always maintained that we won't get offers for Mikel and eventually that has been the case. Why would another top club take such a liability at their place. Galtasaray assistant manager, Hasan Sas denied all media reports and said they were never in for Mikel, it was just Mikel's agent talk. Similarly when he was linked to Trabzonspor, their president said the same thing. Any person with half a brain knows and understand that but I agree expecting that much from you is a tall order.

and YES I agree that Mikel was a key player last year. His ABSENCE due to "injury" towards the end of the season helped us build and maintain a winning momentum that got us the third place and also the Europa league.

[Strike 6,952]

I personally think Jose has faith in him, and that's why we're probably not buying another midfielder.

He certainly has the ability, so it'll be interesting to see how he plays under Mourinho. I think he can be a beast under the right circumstances and given the right role.

This. He won't work well in a pressing game with a midfield duo looking to recycle possession forward. He works well in the old 4-3-3 where he sits in front of the back four with no much running, pressing required.

[nachikethas 1,149]

DP