The English Football Thread

[Blue Armour 4,164]

7 hours ago, Jason said:

Debate about Mourinho's football is already floating about...

 

 

The annoying thing is the number of bandwagon fans that have jumped on the Spurs bus parade in recent weeks simply because they are leading by goal difference atm.

I don't want to be hypocritical, because we've utilized the same style of play to get results in recent seasons, but we supported it because it helped Chelsea win.

I can understand if Spurs fans are okay with it, but for mainstream football fans to claim that this is a new found football philosophy and display of tactical genius that trumps others, is a bit much for me. 

[ZAPHOD2319 3,873]

Cant.stop.watching.🤣

 

 

[communicate 2,703]

Mourinho typical 2nd season.Regullon and Hojberg signings pretty much transform the make up of spurs team.

The most interesting team imo is still United, if they can find a way to put pogba and fernandes in the same team and still look very balance (what happened to them last season after the break), they are imo one of the best team, i am not sure how especially with the makeup of the team. 

[communicate 2,703]

3 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

 

Putting Arsenal aside though,...more teams should look at our performance against Spurs and do better at cutting out that link between Kane and Son...Especially by swamping Kane. Do that and you nullify nearly 50% of their scoring chances IMO.

What we did was we kinda asked our fb especially Chilwell to play conservative. So son like his goal against arsenal, won't play one on one against cb. 

It f*** up our offense also though because Werner can't play without support. 

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

Listen, I simply cannot understand why there is 'Spurs are going to win the title' vibes around and people are truly afraid they might go all the way. I mean ok maybe Mourinho might have done it this way in the past, but not when he's had that many quality, and I mean really, really good teams that are challenging, too. For me Liverpool and City are nailed on to go head to head for the league title again and are the two main candidates. Not the sole ones, but still easily the two best teams around, then there is Chelsea and it might sound funny but United will go deep, too IMHO and the thing is that all this four teams have better attacking players than Spurs.

You might think Spurs will park the bus v the big teams like they truly did v us, City and Arsenal, but they did not look that good v Burnley, West Brom and Brighton either, three wins in which they shot less than 8 or 9 shots on goal combined. In three matches...

It's like a honeymoon period for them now and Kane looks like he's playing the Kante role now. They will fall apart as soon as they go on a winless streak and Mourinho starts blaming someone, anyone. In his mind they are now first because of him, soon Son or somebody else is going to be at fault for not tracking back on Ola Aina.

On another note happy for Arsenal's brilliant title challenge yet again, fuck that obnoxious and deluded fan base.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, petre.ispirescu said:

Listen, I simply cannot understand why there is 'Spurs are going to win the title' vibes around and people are truly afraid they might go all the way. I mean ok maybe Mourinho might have done it this way in the past, but not when he's had that many quality, and I mean really, really good teams that are challenging, too. For me Liverpool and City are nailed on to go head to head for the league title again and are the two main candidates. Not the sole ones, but still easily the two best teams around, then there is Chelsea and it might sound funny but United will go deep, too IMHO and the thing is that all this four teams have better attacking players than Spurs.

You might think Spurs will park the bus v the big teams like they truly did v us, City and Arsenal, but they did not look that good v Burnley, West Brom and Brighton either, three wins in which they shot less than 8 or 9 shots on goal combined. In three matches...

It's like a honeymoon period for them now and Kane looks like he's playing the Kante role now. They will fall apart as soon as they go on a winless streak and Mourinho starts blaming someone, anyone. In his mind they are now first because of him, soon Son or somebody else is going to be at fault for not tracking back on Ola Aina.

On another note happy for Arsenal's brilliant title challenge yet again, fuck that obnoxious and deluded fan base.

As you alluded to there, Spurs have their X factor in Mourinho right now because he's been there and done it before. If Pochettino was still in charge or a lesser name was at the helm instead, think people wouldn't be so concerned about them. Time will tell if Spurs will last all the way but so far, they are picking up the results and beating the big teams, boring/defensive approach or not. 

[Jase 43,479]

7 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

The annoying thing is the number of bandwagon fans that have jumped on the Spurs bus parade in recent weeks simply because they are leading by goal difference atm.

I don't want to be hypocritical, because we've utilized the same style of play to get results in recent seasons, but we supported it because it helped Chelsea win.

I can understand if Spurs fans are okay with it, but for mainstream football fans to claim that this is a new found football philosophy and display of tactical genius that trumps others, is a bit much for me. 

As someone pointed here out yesterday, you would think Spurs are 10 points clear at the top instead of just 2 with the way people are going on about them. Yes, they are getting the results and all that but it's only 11 games in and Liverpool, who of course are the champions, are level on points with them.  

On the other hand, it's funny to see everyone's darling last season Liverpool barely getting any love in the title race so far this season, despite being joint-top. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Kane plays DM and Son as a fullback, let them have their fun, they will struggle at some point.

[NikkiCFC 7,580]

13 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

 

The annoying thing is the number of bandwagon fans that have jumped on the Spurs bus parade in recent weeks simply because they are leading by goal difference atm.

I don't want to be hypocritical, because we've utilized the same style of play to get results in recent seasons, but we supported it because it helped Chelsea win.

I can understand if Spurs fans are okay with it, but for mainstream football fans to claim that this is a new found football philosophy and display of tactical genius that trumps others, is a bit much for me. 

 

5 hours ago, Jason said:

As someone pointed here out yesterday, you would think Spurs are 10 points clear at the top instead of just 2 with the way people are going on about them. Yes, they are getting the results and all that but it's only 11 games in and Liverpool, who of course are the champions, are level on points with them.  

On the other hand, it's funny to see everyone's darling last season Liverpool barely getting any love in the title race so far this season, despite being joint-top. 

It is not the same. Spurs are underdogs. Basically for starting 11 they got just two new players Reguilon and Hojbjerg. If Mou wins it with them it would be story similar to Conte winning season with us. Neutral fans love stories like that.

Also if he wins major trophy with Spurs that would go on top3 list in his career with what he did in Inter and Porto. And all of that have much more value than whatever Pep and Zidane did in their careers because it is huge overachievement.

[NikkiCFC 7,580]

They dont even know how to do thrown in...

[Vesper 27,310]

 

[Vesper 27,310]

A starting point of reference for Mikel Arteta's sterile Arsenal shower

Harry Kane doing his derby thing, earlier. Apart from the backing in thing. Photograph: Glyn Kirk/AFP/Getty Images

Scott Murray

IT COULD BE WORSE; IT HAS BEEN WORSE This is Arsenal’s worst start to a campaign since 1981-82. That season, a team with a defence featuring a 76-year-old John Hollins and Pat “I’m 83!” Jennings won just three of their first 11 matches, scoring a mere seven goals in the process, and found themselves sixth from bottom of the old First Division. The jig looked up for manager Terry Neill, who was given the dreaded vote of confidence. However, the board held their nerve, and were rewarded when Arsenal won their next six matches on the bounce. Something for everyone involved with the 2020-21 set-up to ponder, if only to conclude that Mikel Arteta’s sterile shower, also sixth from bottom, aren’t going to win their next half dozen, are they? But at least it gives us a starting point of reference.

Mikel Arteta not blind to Arsenal shortcomings but can't see a solution Read more

History always teaches you something, though. While Arsenal’s current rabble look incapable of stringing together anything apart from dreary passing sequences which go absolutely nowhere, and while José Mourinho drapes himself across the opposite dugout with his feet up and a cigar on, they’re surely able to gather themselves and slowly fight their way back up the table, just like Neill’s team did all those years ago. The 81-82 vintage ended up fifth, which would have felt like eighth or ninth does these days, when you factor in stuff like modern Big Cup qualification, and old-fashioned concepts such as dignity. Arteta’s Arsenal could do ninth, right? A cinch. In fact, drill down, and Arteta’s Arsenal compare favourably to Neill’s 1981 vintage, having one more point and a whopping three more goals after their first 11. Sadly, that hasn’t stopped some of the more melodramatic commentators, such as AFTV’s Douglas Sirk, from calling for Arteta’s head. Even taking into account the telescoping of culture and the time-warping effects of a year in lockdown, this seems a wee bit harsh given Arteta won Arsenal the Cup just over four months ago. So The Fiver preaches patience, with another nod to the past: in 1946-47, Arsenal were in the relegation places in December. They scrambled to 13th and won the league the year after. So keep the faith, because you never know. Well, you sort of know. But you never know! QUOTE OF THE DAY “That’s just disrespectful. The lad had a good game and scored two goals. He should have simply put the ball over the line and celebrated his goal instead of loafing around like that” – Werder Bremen’s goalscoring police Davie Selke lets rip at Stuttgart’s Silas Wamangituka for gloriously walking the ball up to an open goal and waiting on the line for an age before poking it home, Fiver Jr-in-the-playground-style. He even copped a booking for it.

Ready, ready … Photograph: DeFodi Images/Getty Images

FIVER LETTERS “I have always been greatly puzzled by Ole Gunnar Solskjær’s decision-making, but finally I have cracked the nut. He is a man capable of having two directly opposing ideas at the same time, as indicated in the interviews to the BBC and Sky Sports after the win at West Ham. Or was it the effect of the Boris Bowl? To the BBC: ‘We didn’t defend well enough with the ball. We got away with a poor performance.’ To Sky: ‘I am very, very pleased with the performance’” – John Weldon. “On 27 November, Newcastle United beat Crystal Palace thanks in part to much-maligned forward Joelinton scoring a rare goal. On 6 December, Crystal Palace beat West Brom thanks in part to much-maligned forward Christian Benteke scoring a brace. The Baggies play Newcastle next: one of their underachieving strikers is surely nailed on to score a hat-trick. Well, it’s not actually guaranteed, but 2020 keeps getting weirder, and it would be very funny” – Ed Taylor. “A late contender for sore loser of the year, one very unhappy canary, Daniel Farke, after his table-toppers were thumped 3-1 by Luton last week, including the 1,000 home fans (dotted around three stands) influenced the officials” – Yvonne Fletcher. Send your letters to [email protected]. And you can always tweet The Fiver via @guardian_sport. Today’s winner of our prizeless letter o’the day prize is … John Weldon. RECOMMENDED SHOPPING Available at our print shop now, Tom Jenkins’s pictures of the past decade. NEWS, BITS AND BOBS Colchester chairman Robbie Cowling has a strong message for some of the 1,000 U’s fans who booed players taking a knee against Grimsby. “They should just stay away from our club because anyone that still wants to boo now that I have explained the purpose and importance of the taking of the knee is not welcome,” he said. “I will be happy to refund anyone for the remaining value of their season permit.” Meanwhile, QPR players have asked to change the club’s policy and will now perform the gesture at Millwall on Tuesday in what manager Mark Warburton described as a show of “solidarity” after booing at the Den on Saturday.

Millwall players take a knee as Colin Kazim-Richards raises his fist. Photograph: Joe Toth/BPI/REX/Shutterstock

Liverpool view Fabinho as an Al Capone-like “untouchable” and plan to give the £100,000-a-week jack-of-all-trades a bumper new contract. A 1-1 draw with St Johnstone has set the Queen’s Celtic Countdown clock ticking again for Neil Lennon, who just can’t work out what the potentially job-saving conundrum is. “Can I turn it around? Yes, of course I can,” he blabbed. “Will I get the time to do it? Well …” Sam Kerr scored a hat-trick in Chelsea’s 3-2 WSL win over West Ham and then flamin’ knacked herself celebrating. “I don’t know what the situation is with Sam,” sighed Blues boss Emma Hayes. Ronald Koeman unwrapped an oven-ready excuse for his side’s bobbins display in the 2-1 defeat at Cádiz. “We are killing our players with these schedules,” he fumed after Ousmane Dembélé twanged a hamstring. “It’s a real shame to lose another player to [knack].” And former Hibs keeper John Burridge has revealed the grim lengths Hearts fans would go to to disrupt his motorbike commute to training. “I was rushing one day and put my helmet on and, as I got to the traffic lights, I thought ‘what the hell is that?’” he gagged. “And brown [stuff] started coming down my face – somebody had sh!t in my flipping helmet.” STILL WANT MORE? The top 100 female footballers for 2020 are coming … Mikel Arteta has done some good things in his year at Arsenal but he’s still not addressed a lack of creativity in midfield, so says Nick Ames. Will the Kane-Son love story have a romantic ending this season? Barney Ronay is a big fan of this season’s Spurs rom-com. Ten talking points from the Premier League weekend, right here. And here’s your WSL review, courtesy of Rachel Brown-Finnis.

Here you go. Composite: Getty/PA

Sid Lowe on the state of things at Barcelona. Torino showed why they are European masters of the late collapse against Juventus, writes Nicky Bandini. Have Leipzig become Bayern’s greatest Bundesliga irritant, asks Andy Brassell. Oh, and if it’s your thing … you can follow Big Website on Big Social FaceSpace. And INSTACHAT, TOO! THE CHAMPIONSHIP NEVER LETS YOU DOWN

[Jase 43,479]

28 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

It is not the same. Spurs are underdogs. Basically for starting 11 they got just two new players Reguilon and Hojbjerg. If Mou wins it with them it would be story similar to Conte winning season with us. Neutral fans love stories like that.

Also if he wins major trophy with Spurs that would go on top3 list in his career with what he did in Inter and Porto. And all of that have much more value than whatever Pep and Zidane did in their careers because it is huge overachievement.

I'm sorry but that's BS. Spurs might not be the #1 favorites for the title but they are not underdogs. You talked as if they are like Leicester from 4 years ago, a bunch of nobodies who came out of nowhere and won the title. This is a Spurs side that Pochettino had built and nurtured over the years. He built the core of players that they have now - e.g. Lloris, Alderweireld, Kane, Son. They had challenged at the top and even got to a Champions League final under him. What they needed was someone who could take them over the line and they have one now in Mourinho and they have filled in the gaps in the team with some signings. They might not have been fanciful, big-name players but signings nonetheless. And by the way, Spurs' net spend over the last two seasons (including this one) is £139 million. That definitely doesn't scream like "underdogs". 

[Special Juan 27,101]

Looks like Pogba is off

[NikkiCFC 7,580]

18 minutes ago, Jason said:

I'm sorry but that's BS. Spurs might not be the #1 favorites for the title but they are not underdogs. You talked as if they are like Leicester from 4 years ago, a bunch of nobodies who came out of nowhere and won the title. This is a Spurs side that Pochettino had built and nurtured over the years. He built the core of players that they have now - e.g. Lloris, Alderweireld, Kane, Son. They had challenged at the top and even got to a Champions League final under him. What they needed was someone who could take them over the line and they have one now in Mourinho and they have filled in the gaps in the team with some signings. They might not have been fanciful, big-name players but signings nonetheless. And by the way, Spurs' net spend over the last two seasons (including this one) is £139 million. That definitely doesn't scream like "underdogs". 

How many titles Spurs won in PL history?

They finished 6th last season with 40 points behind Liverpool. Leicester finished 46 behind us season before they won title.

If somebody said Spurs will win title three months ago, how would you feel about that? It is not like Leicester but it is probably closer to that than they were to Liverpool and City before the season.

People said about us that finishing 3rd with 80+ points would be successful season for them and Spurs are way behind us especially after our transfer window.

So with all this how much were their chances to win title?

This were the odds before the season by bookmakers:

Premier League outright odds 2020/21

4/5 - Man City

15/8 - Liverpool

10/1 - Chelsea

14/1 - Man Utd

33/1 - Arsenal

50/1 - Tottenham

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

How many titles Spurs won in PL history?

They finished 6th last season with 40 points behind Liverpool. Leicester finished 46 behind us season before they won title.

If somebody said Spurs will win title three months ago, how would you feel about that? It is not like Leicester but it is probably closer to that than they were to Liverpool and City before the season.

People said about us that finishing 3rd with 80+ points would be successful season for them and Spurs are way behind us especially after our transfer window.

So with all this how much were their chances to win title?

This were the odds before the season by bookmakers:

Premier League outright odds 2020/21

So what if Spurs haven't won a Premier League title before? You can't spend all the money they have, have the players they got now, be up there for years and suddenly call them "underdogs" for the title, not when they also have a manager now who has won it all. Whatever their odds are this season, it certainly isn't 5000/1 like Leicester's 5 years ago!

[Vesper 27,310]

Spuds were (and are) underdogs. Not every team has to be Leicester 'once in a century' flukes to be an underdog. Winning the EPL with this spurs team woukd be the 4th greatest achievement of his career, after Porto CL, Inter treble, and 2004/05 Chels EPL crushing dominance. 

What he has done with Ndombele alone is miracle worker level. The bloke is now close to WC after being a semi bust. All they lack for true CL contenders is a WC winger the right (Bale looks a shadow so far) a WC AMF (still an all-time puzzle about Eriksen), and especially a WC CB.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Spuds were (and are) underdogs.

Maybe we have different definition of underdogs but...