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Steve

By Steve,
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  On 19/09/2016 at 15:00, Blue-in-me-Veins said:

Wow... I had forgot JM wanted him. What a nightmare. 

Also, here's a great anecdote on the Rooney and United relationship. 

 

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Funny thing is Fergie barely got any criticism - which he should have - for leaving United with so little quality. I know his family circumstances dictated it but he 'conveniently' retired at the right time after winning the league.

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Blue-in-me-Veins

Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067

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  On 19/09/2016 at 22:03, Jason said:

Funny thing is Fergie barely got any criticism - which he should have - for leaving United with so little quality. I know his family circumstances dictated it but he 'conveniently' retired at the right time after winning the league.

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Yeah, he pretty much pulled a Mourinho 2010 with Inter.  

But you know what, I don't really "blame" Fergie for leaving Man United in the state that he did. He had won all there was to win, and had been a legendary servant to the club. He even kept Man United competitive with the likes of City who were shelling hundreds of millions to win the PL Title, all while allowing the Glazers to drain the club of valuable funds so they could pay back the debt they saddled onto Man. United so they could buy the club in the first place. 

I think Fergie quickly realized he didn't have the energy or generally couldn't be arsed with, creating another new spine for the club. The window on that aging squad with the likes of Vidic/Berbatov/Giggs/Scholes/Ferdinand was closed by the end of that title-winning season. 

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Essien19

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  On 19/09/2016 at 22:03, Jason said:
Funny thing is Fergie barely got any criticism - which he should have - for leaving United with so little quality. I know his family circumstances dictated it but he 'conveniently' retired at the right time after winning the league.

He left his successor with the league winning squad. It's not his fault that Moyes came up with the brilliant idea to kick out a lot of the staff members and going crosses all the way... i remember him taking a long holdiday before he even cared to show up. Giving Rooney the big contract was his decision, as well as buying Fellaini.

Moyes still likes to talk about United and how bad they treated him. He seems not to take much blame. I wouldn't want to work for/with such a person.

I think Ferguson would have continued to be right up there and getting the best out of players such as Van Persie or Evans. Zaha would have been an interesting one, imo.

Sure Ferguson could have had more young guns, but they were top of the league, Moyes fucked up.

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  On 20/09/2016 at 09:20, Essien19 said:

He left his successor with the league winning squad. It's not his fault that Moyes came up with the brilliant idea to kick out a lot of the staff members and going crosses all the way... i remember him taking a long holdiday before he even cared to show up. Giving Rooney the big contract was his decision, as well as buying Fellaini.

Moyes still likes to talk about United and how bad they treated him. He seems not to take much blame. I wouldn't want to work for/with such a person.

I think Ferguson would have continued to be right up there and getting the best out of players such as Van Persie or Evans. Zaha would have been an interesting one, imo.

Sure Ferguson could have had more young guns, but they were top of the league, Moyes fucked up.

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Fergie left Moyes with a league winning squad...but not a quality squad. There's a difference. They won the league that season only because of Van Persie. Fergie bought him with the main purpose of getting the league back after watching Man City won it. If you go look back at the squad then, how many players would you even consider to be top quality?

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Essien19

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  On 20/09/2016 at 17:23, Jason said:

Fergie left Moyes with a league winning squad...but not a quality squad. There's a difference. They won the league that season only because of Van Persie. Fergie bought him with the main purpose of getting the league back after watching Man City won it. If you go look back at the squad then, how many players would you even consider to be top quality?

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Individually speaking you do have a point there, but isn't it now the time where a (hopefully good) manager comes into play who can make up for a lot of things? If the system doesn't suit them it's all for nothing.

You mentioned the Dutchman...after Ferguson had called it a day, there were rumours flying around about an unhappy and full of regrets for joining them in the first place Van Persie. It didn't come by surprise that in their following season it all went tits up. Don't you think that a class manager wouldn't have been able to squeeze at least one more (unbelievable) season out of him? Van Persie scored the goals, but Ferguson kept him in line and without a class manager, his downfall is there for everyone to see. Personally, i'd argue that United won the league because of Ferguson, he made every player better. Moyes couldn't. City last -and this year, it's a completely different ball game. Over the last decade could it be the case that there were spells where Chelsea sold themselves at less than their true value? I do think so! City has the foundation to build a similar case for quite some years.

Spotting. With the emergence of Moyes a lot of expensive names were making the rounds and some guys were brushed aside. Van Gaal followed the tradition of the done and dusted ones. They learned the hard way that they'd better kept the likes of Evans, Nani, Chicharito and others instead of emptying their pockets for the Rojo's of this world. Point is, they weren't all bad.

Back in 2013, three standout performers:
Van Persie
Carrick (massively underrated)
De Gea ( performance curve only going upwards)

Under the right management Evans, Jones, Smalling, Rafael, Evra, Young, Valencia, Young, Zaha, Nani, Chicharito could have played their part. Of course there was need to buy/sell, but not to reinvent the wheel, Moyes and later Van Gaal got it all wrong. Mourinho's pairing of Pogba & Schneiderlin isn't even a poor version of Carrick, tbf, Ferguson is gone for a while.

Point is, City's had a better one, perhaps even Chelsea. But i wouldn't remove the tag quality when speaking about United's. That was right up with the best, the players had instilled the winning mentality and Rooney was on his way out, that has to count for something. :ph34r:
I stand by my belief: the coaches have to shoulder most of the blame.

Agree to disagree!

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communicate

communicate 2,703

Posted
Posted
  On 20/09/2016 at 17:23, Jason said:

Fergie left Moyes with a league winning squad...but not a quality squad. There's a difference. They won the league that season only because of Van Persie. Fergie bought him with the main purpose of getting the league back after watching Man City won it. If you go look back at the squad then, how many players would you even consider to be top quality?

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Player like Wes brown, oshea, park, welbeck have always been the strength of united team under Fergie. His team always has good balance between hardworking players and star player like Ronaldo, rooney (young), rvp

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