The Next Manager?

[ChelseaFanUK 1,014]

cant understand Spanish but SPORT have something on their front cover about Luis Enrique and us

 

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=luis enrique chelsea&src=tyah

 

Apparently it says he will sign for 2 and a half years, just waiting for Conte to go

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

8 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Pochettino is a great coach but I'm concerned about how he hasn't won any trophies in England. Every manager we've had since AVB has won trophies. Di Matteo, Benitez, Mourinho (never counted Hiddink, because whats the point), Conte.... I think even if Conte doesn't get sacked (would be an idiotic move) and still wins an FA cup or something as well as securing top 4 status then the season isn't too bad. Pochettino if he had an appetite to win trophies, the smaller ones which he continually write off, then yes he'd be perfect but the thing is here, we want to win everything we are in, CL, FA cup, Carabao Cup, Community Shield and whatever. Hes very much a double ended sword, yes we will improve maybe, young players will get more of a chance but hes never worked in such a high pressure environment where he isn't always going to get his own way (lets be honest not going to change anytime soon) but he could come here, do great but ultimately win fuck all and get sacked again, look at Ancelotti when he won the double for instance, year later out for finishing 2nd. How many years have Spurs actually gone to the wire for the title? The year Leicester won it? When Spurs and Arsenal both bottled it? 

Tuchel no thanks. Allegri, maybe but again not overly convinced hes an excellent coach, Jardim is very much still unproven for me as well despite what Monaco did last season. Simeone is a top level coach, hes very much like Mourinho and Conte though in terms of style and the fans and squad might fancy a change who knows? Luis Enrique wants full control of transfers which he wont get so he wont be coming, plus again I'm not entirely sure he'd really want to come here anyway as well as the fact I'm not sure he'd be a success here. Plus his Barca team were also quite counter attack orientated as well, which annoyed Barca fans, which people already complain about here. Slutsky no way in hell, not even Roman is that stupid.

With regards to the bolded: I could say the same thing about Simeone or any other potential manager. So where do we go from here? 

Pochettino's criticisms/down-playing of the League Cup and FA Cup has always struck me as bizarre. But if he was ever appointed here, he'd understand that Chelsea want to win every trophy under-the sun and would thus adjust his mentality so I wouldn't be too concerned about that. Also, your failing to place Pochettino's success in proper context, like @Tomo alluded above, Pochettino is working on the absolute smallest of all budgets at Tottenham due to their owner, and he still just nearly had them winning the league. Yes he lost both times, but how can you not respect the process of how he has turned Spurs into a very formidable footballing outfit? Plus, If we're looking for a manager who understands working under a tight budget, I see no better candidate than Pochettino (along with the other positives I think he would bring.)

What I'm looking for, is a manager that has shown he has the capabilities of building a footballing brand and developing an identity. Especially one that is pressing + attacking based. And of the coaches I mentioned, atleast all of them are capable of that in Tuchel, Leonardo Jardim, Pochettino and Allegri (although the latter not so much imo.) 

Furthermore, your not convinced that Allegri is an excellent coach?!  How can't you rate a man that has gotten his team to 2 Champions League Finals in 3 years. Come on fam. Yes, Allegri is another pragmatic coach, much like Conte, and will cede possession in big matches if he thinks thats the best way to win, but he isn't as tactically rigid formation wise as Antonio Conte. Allegri would be the safest bet, if Chelsea want to continue the same short-term mindset that we are incapable of shaking. Under Allegri, I have no doubt we'll lift a trophy. But please if you don't rate Allegri as a tactical coach, please go watch Juventus vs Barcelona 2017 UCL Semi-Final 1st Leg, that was one of the finest tactical masterclasses you'll ever see. 

 

[Superblue 6,372]

Don't get me wrong, I think Pochettino is a very good coach and has definitely developed and progressed a lot of players at Spurs, but he is incredibly fortunate to have Harry Kane in his team. I know he broke through under Pochettino but he wouldn't give him many chances for a long while in his first season despite Spurs fans begging him to do so.

But I think if you put Kane and his goals in any of the other top teams, they would be pushing City for the title (think Suarez at Liverpool). That volume of goals from your striker is absolute golden and they benefit immensely from that where other teams competing don't.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

4 hours ago, Tomo said:

There's a difference between a teething problem struggle and the shit we have been served up since new year and well December too  (the results were still there at that point, but the warning signs were evident). 

Teething problem struggles would be Poch's first season at Spurs, Pep at City last season or if you want to look further back, Rijkaard's first season at Barca, all had inconsistent season's for various reason's but it was obvious to anyone with eyes that something special was being built (people can throw the no trophies thing at Poch, but if Conte is being branded a miracle worker for what he's done on our budget then the same should very much apply to Poch who's at a club with a transfer structure that makes ours look like PSG and City combined) and if we had a season like that with say Sarri next season i genuinely believe he will get the time he needs.

Look at us now, what is Conte actually building towards? Ok he didn't get his first choice targets, boo hoo he's not the first in football and won't be the last, we have a flawed squad but enough quality to have some sort of identity and structure, what is ours? Since new year we have totally broken down and Conte is doing nothing to change things up, it's the same failed and tired tactics over and over again and he's starting to look like Carlo in 10/11 (and if you told me last May i'd ever say that i would have laughed at you). Its like he's (like Carlo) expecting things to fall back into gear eventually because they use to work. 

You say Conte can do little about defensive errors, what about hard work on the training ground? Poch took on defenders who were making fools of themselves under Sherwood and made the best defensive unit in the league, Conte has had 18 months to work on our defense yet (as clearly evident last two matches) we have a 21 year old carrying our defense and when he doesn't play we are defensively as bad as Liverpool.

2018 under Antonio things have looked totally damaged and while it's easy to say it's only a month, when has a manager hit such a rut at any club and come out the other side? It's very rare and history suggests things are only going get worse not better so why cling on (look at how much damage United clinging on to LVG has caused), we are nowhere near a Jose 15/16 all time collapse but we are very much in Scolari, AVB and Carlo season 2 territortry right now.  It's a real shame it's come to this as i honestly would give him 9.5 for last season but last season has gone, history suggests things won't get better so why cling on? Get someone in, galvanize the group and maybe, just maybe give ourselves a chance of the FA Cup and the Barca match.

If we had someone like Poch as you suggest, he would be sacked long ago for not winning any title yet. 

While its true we dont build for long term, its actualy fact that Conte created better team last year than Poch all seasons combined. In the end trophies are everything in football. 

Spurs have good defence, good midfield, good attack and all is result of Poch, but hey they flopped every season in title race and they have fallen off this season a bit. Already lost Walker and its only a matter of time before they lose someone else. 

On another note, its incredible that Conte won league ahead of manchesters and last year very strong tottenham with that squad we had. But we sold two key parts in Costa (I still cant believe how did people not see his importance) and Matic and replaced them with frauds. One cant score open goal and the other cant control a football. 

We have pretty much same squad as last year with two much worse players in Morata and Bakayoko, but the rest are same. And yet they play lik shit. 

Its not surprising majority of these players pulled same trick under Mourinho. 

You certainly cant blame only Conte for this because he managed to motivate Juve for several seasons, he isnt the type to just let it go to shit.

But you can only do so much with the team we have. 

The difference between us and Spurs or City is they have players who can improve. Moses, Alonso, Pedro, Willian, Cahill, Cesc,...they all have been at their peak already. 

We spend so much money, but you shouldnt look at how much but at who.

We had to improve both fullbacks, we didnt. Emerson has long way to be in first 11. 

We had to bring striker who can replace prolific Costa, we didnt. 

We had to bring top DM, we didnt.

We had to bring quality central playmaker, we didnt. Cesc was bit player last season and thats what he is. Now he suddenly plays regulary because we dont have anyone else.

We had to bring quality winger, we stuck with Pedro and Willian. 

What we did bring were Rudiger who is fine, Drinkwater and Zappacosta who are terrible, Bakayoko who is clearly not ready and flopped, Morata who isnt reliable striker, Giroud who is stopgap, Emerson who is recovering, Barkley who fits in no formation we play etc etc.

The difference between spurs or city is they target players that suit them and can improve the team, small money or big money. Our scouting fills Conte with players that dont fit, dont have quality and most of them isnt even match fit.

Morata, Bakayoko, Emerson, Giroud, Barkley,...they couldnt feature in first game for us. City throws Laporte in match one day after he was bought. Similar with Auba, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez,...

The one signing equivalent to our business is Llorente to Spurs (who we were linked heavily too lol) who has flopped big time. Poch cant do anything if player doesnt have quality or potential, much like Conte. Except Conte has bunch of such players, you can sqeeze one top season out of them, but thats it. 

We played 3:4:3 last year and if we bought damn quality LWB, RW, striker and DM, we would be still very very quality side. 

But we sold Costa and Matic and bought average players. We are pretty much worse team than last year, only positive is Christensen who is doing well under Conte. 

Thats why Conte had to make patches with 3:5:2 which didnt work, several injuries and underperforming players and here we are.

The environment at Chelsea is toxic, like under Mou. But this happend second time now, its not just on manager. The players are equal culprits. You can see they cant string two passes between. 

I admit Conte isnt innocent. His defensive play is something I hate alot these days. We could play Eden, Morata and Willian/Pedro many games, but we didnt. Maybe because Bakayoko is so bad and we needed to add Cesc. These problems wouldnt exist if we actualy bought competent players.

Morata missing 1v1s isnt something Conte can do much about either. If you remember it all started with our bad finishing, then we couldnt create and now we cant even defend.  

We bought shit players, thats main explanation why we dont play well. Conte wanted Sandro and he got Zappacosta. And the constant talk of sacking and no future here, plus poor transfer support for his ideas, no wonder he will eventualy not give a shit. Trust and faith goes both ways.

Costa was pivotal in both title runs, probably more important than Eden when on form, and we replaced him with Morata.

You see all the negatives Conte makes, but hell he was doing miracles with this team. Now it just exploded as it was expected. Every neutral fan who watches Chelsea will tell you so. Our players have so little technical ability, you cant possibly make promising improvements like Pep did with City last year. 

Tell me how many Chelsea players can hold on the ball with composure? Eden. Kante. Christensen maybe. In tottenham and city you have Lloris and Ederson with more composure on the ball than our team, apart from those 3. Its funny but true. 

If we want to compete, we will have to buy better players. If we want longterm project we have to give manager more control. The club is somewhere in between and will eventualy pull the short straw on both ends. We have to make decision soon. Its the only way to stabilize our club. 

[Strike 7,516]

I'd love to meet Tomo and BlueLyon one day

[communicate 2,703]

3 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

If we had someone like Poch as you suggest, he would be sacked long ago for not winning any title yet. 

While its true we dont build for long term, its actualy fact that Conte created better team last year than Poch all seasons combined. In the end trophies are everything in football. 

Spurs have good defence, good midfield, good attack and all is result of Poch, but hey they flopped every season in title race and they have fallen off this season a bit. Already lost Walker and its only a matter of time before they lose someone else. 

On another note, its incredible that Conte won league ahead of manchesters and last year very strong tottenham with that squad we had. But we sold two key parts in Costa (I still cant believe how did people not see his importance) and Matic and replaced them with frauds. One cant score open goal and the other cant control a football. 

We have pretty much same squad as last year with two much worse players in Morata and Bakayoko, but the rest are same. And yet they play lik shit. 

Its not surprising majority of these players pulled same trick under Mourinho. 

You certainly cant blame only Conte for this because he managed to motivate Juve for several seasons, he isnt the type to just let it go to shit.

But you can only do so much with the team we have. 

The difference between us and Spurs or City is they have players who can improve. Moses, Alonso, Pedro, Willian, Cahill, Cesc,...they all have been at their peak already. 

We spend so much money, but you shouldnt look at how much but at who.

We had to improve both fullbacks, we didnt. Emerson has long way to be in first 11. 

We had to bring striker who can replace prolific Costa, we didnt. 

We had to bring top DM, we didnt.

We had to bring quality central playmaker, we didnt. Cesc was bit player last season and thats what he is. Now he suddenly plays regulary because we dont have anyone else.

We had to bring quality winger, we stuck with Pedro and Willian. 

What we did bring were Rudiger who is fine, Drinkwater and Zappacosta who are terrible, Bakayoko who is clearly not ready and flopped, Morata who isnt reliable striker, Giroud who is stopgap, Emerson who is recovering, Barkley who fits in no formation we play etc etc.

The difference between spurs or city is they target players that suit them and can improve the team, small money or big money. Our scouting fills Conte with players that dont fit, dont have quality and most of them isnt even match fit.

Morata, Bakayoko, Emerson, Giroud, Barkley,...they couldnt feature in first game for us. City throws Laporte in match one day after he was bought. Similar with Auba, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez,...

The one signing equivalent to our business is Llorente to Spurs (who we were linked heavily too lol) who has flopped big time. Poch cant do anything if player doesnt have quality or potential, much like Conte. Except Conte has bunch of such players, you can sqeeze one top season out of them, but thats it. 

We played 3:4:3 last year and if we bought damn quality LWB, RW, striker and DM, we would be still very very quality side. 

But we sold Costa and Matic and bought average players. We are pretty much worse team than last year, only positive is Christensen who is doing well under Conte. 

Thats why Conte had to make patches with 3:5:2 which didnt work, several injuries and underperforming players and here we are.

The environment at Chelsea is toxic, like under Mou. But this happend second time now, its not just on manager. The players are equal culprits. You can see they cant string two passes between. 

I admit Conte isnt innocent. His defensive play is something I hate alot these days. We could play Eden, Morata and Willian/Pedro many games, but we didnt. Maybe because Bakayoko is so bad and we needed to add Cesc. These problems wouldnt exist if we actualy bought competent players.

Morata missing 1v1s isnt something Conte can do much about either. If you remember it all started with our bad finishing, then we couldnt create and now we cant even defend.  

We bought shit players, thats main explanation why we dont play well. Conte wanted Sandro and he got Zappacosta. And the constant talk of sacking and no future here, plus poor transfer support for his ideas, no wonder he will eventualy not give a shit. Trust and faith goes both ways.

Costa was pivotal in both title runs, probably more important than Eden when on form, and we replaced him with Morata.

You see all the negatives Conte makes, but hell he was doing miracles with this team. Now it just exploded as it was expected. Every neutral fan who watches Chelsea will tell you so. Our players have so little technical ability, you cant possibly make promising improvements like Pep did with City last year. 

Tell me how many Chelsea players can hold on the ball with composure? Eden. Kante. Christensen maybe. In tottenham and city you have Lloris and Ederson with more composure on the ball than our team, apart from those 3. Its funny but true. 

If we want to compete, we will have to buy better players. If we want longterm project we have to give manager more control. The club is somewhere in between and will eventualy pull the short straw on both ends. We have to make decision soon. Its the only way to stabilize our club. 

Costa and Matic wanted to leave so they have to be sold and we got good fee for them. I don't think that was bad decision. 

Replacing Costa with Morata is also not a bad decision, who should have we target ?

I think we all know that Lukaku was Conte first choice but we could not afford him.

Bakayoko was signed to backup kante and matic, Conte said so in one of the interview. Matic wanted to go. Now it become a major problem because we need a starter level midfielder, and we can only find Drinkwater which turned out to be a mistake.

Zappacosta signing by itself was so bizzare. Finding a backup for Moses make zero sense but at that point we lost Ox to Pool which at that point surprised everybody.

 

For me our two deadline day signing were our biggest mistakes, we don't need backup for baka or moses. We need starter quality player over them but we failed to get them.

 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

4 hours ago, communicate said:

Costa and Matic wanted to leave so they have to be sold and we got good fee for them. I don't think that was bad decision. 

Replacing Costa with Morata is also not a bad decision, who should have we target ?

I think we all know that Lukaku was Conte first choice but we could not afford him.

Bakayoko was signed to backup kante and matic, Conte said so in one of the interview. Matic wanted to go. Now it become a major problem because we need a starter level midfielder, and we can only find Drinkwater which turned out to be a mistake.

Zappacosta signing by itself was so bizzare. Finding a backup for Moses make zero sense but at that point we lost Ox to Pool which at that point surprised everybody.

 

For me our two deadline day signing were our biggest mistakes, we don't need backup for baka or moses. We need starter quality player over them but we failed to get them.

 

There was no better striker available than Costa. 

We should patch things up with him and continue for a season or two until another top striker would be available.

Morata and Lukaku are far from quality strikers. 

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

There was no better striker available than Costa. 

We should patch things up with him and continue for a season or two until another top striker would be available.

Morata and Lukaku are far from quality strikers. 

Costa wanted to leave, not once but twice.  If a player wanted to leave twice you have to sell him. 

[communicate 2,703]

49 minutes ago, Mana said:

Conte and Costa had a massive fell out. Because they both have an ego, I doubt it will be ever be repaired.

You saw Costa's performance in the 2nd half of last season. Abysmal. Him flirting with Atletico etc.

At this point, you choose. Costa or Conte. Because one of them will leave (or misbehave until they DO leave) if Chelsea FC don't back him up.

 

It's easy now in hindsight to say we should have kept Costa, but last January when we were on fire and Conte looked set to become one of CFC's best managers it was hard NOT to back Conte. And Costa has a poor attitude history.

Nah there is no use of keeping a player that want to leave. As long as you get what he is worth, it is better to let the player go. 

[DYC. 7,542]

There's not a single manager in the world who's 'good enough'. So just appoint any fancy name. If things go well under his management, he stays. If it doesn't, he gets the boot and it's on to the next one.

No need to analyse and worry about who it is because it doesn't matter.

 

[OneMoSalah 8,887]

15 hours ago, Blue-in-me-Veins said:

With regards to the bolded: I could say the same thing about Simeone or any other potential manager. So where do we go from here? 

Pochettino's criticisms/down-playing of the League Cup and FA Cup has always struck me as bizarre. But if he was ever appointed here, he'd understand that Chelsea want to win every trophy under-the sun and would thus adjust his mentality so I wouldn't be too concerned about that. Also, your failing to place Pochettino's success in proper context, like @Tomo alluded above, Pochettino is working on the absolute smallest of all budgets at Tottenham due to their owner, and he still just nearly had them winning the league. Yes he lost both times, but how can you not respect the process of how he has turned Spurs into a very formidable footballing outfit? Plus, If we're looking for a manager who understands working under a tight budget, I see no better candidate than Pochettino (along with the other positives I think he would bring.)

What I'm looking for, is a manager that has shown he has the capabilities of building a footballing brand and developing an identity. Especially one that is pressing + attacking based. And of the coaches I mentioned, atleast all of them are capable of that in Tuchel, Leonardo Jardim, Pochettino and Allegri (although the latter not so much imo.) 

Furthermore, your not convinced that Allegri is an excellent coach?!  How can't you rate a man that has gotten his team to 2 Champions League Finals in 3 years. Come on fam. Yes, Allegri is another pragmatic coach, much like Conte, and will cede possession in big matches if he thinks thats the best way to win, but he isn't as tactically rigid formation wise as Antonio Conte. Allegri would be the safest bet, if Chelsea want to continue the same short-term mindset that we are incapable of shaking. Under Allegri, I have no doubt we'll lift a trophy. But please if you don't rate Allegri as a tactical coach, please go watch Juventus vs Barcelona 2017 UCL Semi-Final 1st Leg, that was one of the finest tactical masterclasses you'll ever see. 

 

Fair enough Allegri has gotten to 2 CL finals in 3 years but so did Rafa Benitez at Liverpool, did that make him an excellent coach? Wouldn't say so myself and although Juventus are a good team (they've always been strong in the last 10 years or so tbf), doesn't mean Allegri would be the outstanding choice for our next manager. The safest bet would be Simeone for me if Conte were to go, he is the most like for like replacement for Conte, the team is built to play on a platform built on a solid defence and with a clear defensive structure without the ball. Out of the overly disappointing list of coaches (lets be honest none of them are an improvement on Antonio) Simeone would be the one I'd bank on, although doubt he'd be overly excited about wanting to come here either, hes always had a great relationship with Aletico and their board as well as the fact people keep linking him to Inter. Plus I don't think he'd have much success with his style here because he wouldn't have as many players of a similar quality in the final third to make a real difference like Koke, Griezmann, Costa, Carrasco unless he were to go and sign a few. Juventus Barcelona CL Semi final was a great game (think Juve rode their luck at times) yes but still tactical masterclass, wouldn't say it was anywhere near as good as Bayern's 7-0 win over Barca or Real Madrids massive win v Pep's Bayern under Ancelotti (I think it was under Carlo).

[BlueLyon 9,359]

6 hours ago, Mana said:

Conte and Costa had a massive fell out. Because they both have an ego, I doubt it will be ever be repaired.

You saw Costa's performance in the 2nd half of last season. Abysmal. Him flirting with Atletico etc.

At this point, you choose. Costa or Conte. Because one of them will leave (or misbehave until they DO leave) if Chelsea FC don't back him up.

 

It's easy now in hindsight to say we should have kept Costa, but last January when we were on fire and Conte looked set to become one of CFC's best managers it was hard NOT to back Conte. And Costa has a poor attitude history.

5 hours ago, communicate said:

Costa wanted to leave, not once but twice.  If a player wanted to leave twice you have to sell him. 

Costa might have been flirting with Atletico, and he did want to leave in summer 2016, but he decided to stay and he was about to extend the contract. Regardless he wanted to leave for atletico, he was in best form of his life the next 6 months at Chelsea. Does it realy matter if he isnt here with heart, when he still puts absolutely fantastic performances? Many players we have dont give a shit about chelsea, as long they get paid.

He was however close to extendind the deal but he had argument with Conte in january and instead of Conte being grown adult and sort this shit out, he decided to ship him off. Hence why Costa wasnt his near his best after january.

Not saying Conte was wrong, Costa had some ill moments too at chelsea, but you solve those problems between player and manager, given that Costa was, despite Chelsea fans thinking otherwise, in form one of the 3 best forwards in the world.

 

[bluephoenix 1,131]

This is such a moot question I feel at this point.

I have stopped giving a _______ about this because there is no point. One season and we will be back in this thread.

The real question is do we really need a manager? maybe the board is so awesome with buying players that they think are good that they should probably coach them and manage them as well. Why waste money hiring and firing managers.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

21 hours ago, Strike said:

I'd love to meet Tomo and BlueLyon one day

Cheers, maybe one day at SB 

[11Drogba 2,000]

12 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Cheers, maybe one day at SB 

Since you mentioned that barbecue party with prostitutes everybody wants meet you.

 

[bigbluewillie 1,930]

4 hours ago, 11Drogba said:

Since you mentioned that barbecue party with prostitutes everybody wants meet you.

 

He didn't say prostitutes bruv he said whores...we aint gotta pay

[BlueLyon 9,359]

11 hours ago, 11Drogba said:

Since you mentioned that barbecue party with prostitutes everybody wants meet you.

 

 

7 hours ago, bigbluewillie said:

He didn't say prostitutes bruv he said whores...we aint gotta pay

Lol!

[DRESCFC 13]

Season 18/19 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Get Dyche and play 10 at the back. Barca will shit themselves.

[OneMoSalah 8,887]

18 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Get Dyche and play 10 at the back. Barca will shit themselves.

Not sure if this is tongue in cheek or not but Burnley have come a fair bit since they first came up, they aren't exactly just a defensive team and they play a lot more than they used to. Anyway we won the league playing a similar style more or less haha, just sitting off teams with a back 5 and block of 4 in MF really. Personally I think Dyche has done an excellent job there actually. Not that he'll ever be considered for here and not that he should be (potentially he could end up managing a much bigger club in the future if he keeps going the way he has been but).