Andrey Santos

[Vegetable 830]

26 minutes ago, Vesper said:

no, what is says is the SHIT football played by SHIT British managers who will play it safe (not really as they lose mostly anyway) with middling thug hack players

 

I don't doubt it, however it boils down to simple thing - on lower level, anyone with quality gets a priority, doubt any manager could afford benching competent Chelsea player if he was actually able to change things on the pitch. If he isn't playing, it means we overshoot the level of club we loaned him to and this level is not super high. Another blunder by the footballing department I guess and If there were no other options, it leads me to asking for 40th time in recent time, what is the point of us even having the reportedly world-class academy? Training with Chelsea staff and playing in development squad is still better than playing 30 mins of Championship football in span of the season.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Vegetable

[NikkiCFC 7,950]

2 hours ago, Vegetable said:

I think our training base and staff is bit better, than Forest's 

Currently Chelsea senior team is not better than Forest. 

[lucio 5,418]

53 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

I don't doubt it, however it boils down to simple thing - on lower level, anyone with quality gets a priority, doubt any manager could afford benching competent Chelsea player if he was actually able to change things on the pitch. If he isn't playing, it means we overshoot the level of club we loaned him to and this level is not super high. Another blunder by the footballing department I guess and If there were no other options, it leads me to asking for 40th time in recent time, what is the point of us even having the reportedly world-class academy? Training with Chelsea staff and playing in development squad is still better than playing 30 mins of Championship football in span of the season.

the player they spent 30m on during deadline day gets a priority. Santos' omission says nothing about his quality. Tony Pulis permabenched gnabry 

[Reddish-Blue 2,347]

3 hours ago, lucio said:

they are giga stacked with semi competent experienced players in his position. he was never going to get a game. they want him for cheap emergency backup,, they have 0 intention of playing him. Worst loan idea ever, its like they chose a club out of the hat. decisions like this can make or break someones career, shameful

Hopefully there is a break clause in January, otherwise we've just wasted a whole season of development.

[Blue Armour 4,278]

3 hours ago, Vesper said:

no, what is says is the SHIT football played by SHIT British managers who will play it safe (not really as they lose mostly anyway) with middling thug hack players

Cooper is a shit, typical utterly unimaginative manager 

barely a step above dire dregs like the POS Pulis

managers like them are a joke when it comes to development

same for Dyche, Big Sam, Pardew, and Fraudgate, etc etc

 

It's dumb that club would get conned into thinking a manager like that could be trusted to give youth players valuable development time.

This was a lazily thought out move for Santos.

[OneMoSalah 8,777]

5 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

It's dumb that club would get conned into thinking a manager like that could be trusted to give youth players valuable development time.

This was a lazily thought out move for Santos.

Funny thing is Steve Cooper has a pretty solid & proven track record working with young players. From his time with Liverpool’s academy all the way through to Swansea. 

But NFFC had already signed multiple MF players in the 2 summer windows prior to us loaning Santos there, so ideally it was a big error on our behalf (I get the feeling we were using him as a bargaining chip to try and sign Johnston, who went to Spurs, as links were pretty prominent).

But I said it before, we needed to temper expectations on this guy. If he isn’t getting a game at Forrest, he probably wouldn’t be at Porto or Sporting Lisbon in Portugal. And he wouldn’t be getting a game here. Going from Brazilian to European football is a big jump, never mind going straight to the PL. 

[lucio 5,418]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Funny thing is Steve Cooper has a pretty solid & proven track record working with young players. From his time with Liverpool’s academy all the way through to Swansea. 

But NFFC had already signed multiple MF players in the 2 summer windows prior to us loaning Santos there, so ideally it was a big error on our behalf (I get the feeling we were using him as a bargaining chip to try and sign Johnston, who went to Spurs, as links were pretty prominent).

But I said it before, we needed to temper expectations on this guy. If he isn’t getting a game at Forrest, he probably wouldn’t be at Porto or Sporting Lisbon in Portugal. And he wouldn’t be getting a game here. Going from Brazilian to European football is a big jump, never mind going straight to the PL. 

sporting probably had an actual route into the team for him.  He should have started over gallagher here first game but poch bottled it 

[OneMoSalah 8,777]

22 minutes ago, lucio said:

sporting probably had an actual route into the team for him.  He should have started over gallagher here first game but poch bottled it 

Why didn’t they try sign him then ? Because they didn’t try and were never linked, even when we went for Ugarte (we were willing to buy a stake in the club in that deal).

Only Porto (apparently loan w/ option to buy) and an Italian team were actually properly credited with interest.

Vesper said something on here about Sporting being the “perfect loan” for him but there was never ever any links between them and the player, not one… so no point saying it would of been the right move or they’d actually have a pathway in there if there was 0 interest on their side for taking him. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by OneMoSalah

[robsblubot 3,504]

Isn't this just yet another challenge for what we are trying to do? we are NOT a club that can offer minutes to younger player, at least not without strings attached. Which means, we rely on loans and "trust" so that other clubs may provide that. Evidently that's not for granted, however much sway we may think we have.

[OneMoSalah 8,777]

6 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Isn't this just yet another challenge for what we are trying to do? we are NOT a club that can offer minutes to younger player, at least not without strings attached. Which means, we rely on loans and "trust" so that other clubs may provide that. Evidently that's not for granted, however much sway we may think we have.

Its pretty abundantly clear that one or even two of Caicedo, Lavia, Ugo & him won’t have a long term career here.

Thats 4 more defensively minded or combative midfielders. All same age group.

Not to mention we want some other Brazilian defensive midfielder now, from Santos I think. So clearly stockpiling, why I don’t know, either 1) to sell and generate profit or 2) just mindblowingly retarded squad building. 

[Vesper 28,801]

11 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Not to mention we want some other Brazilian defensive midfielder now, from Santos I think.

Corinthians

Gabriel Moscardo

and he is 17 (18 in 4 days)

GABRIEL MOSCARDO – THE FUTURE OF BRAZIL’S MIDFIELD

https://footballtalentscout.net/2023/09/21/gabriel-moscardo-the-steering-wheel-by-vuyo-ndebele/

Name: Gabriel Moscardo

Position: CM/DM

Preferred foot: Right

Height: 6’1/1.85M

Age: 17

Main Strengths: heading, tackling, concentration, decision making & work rate.

Although Corinthians are the third most successful club in Brazil’s Serie A history with seven league titles, behind only Palmeiras (11) and Santos (8), they have struggled of late to close that gap, with their last title coming in 2017 and a highest finish of fourth since (2022). As it goes more often than not when teams struggle, clubs and coaches alike often look for solutions elsewhere, with most opting to spend in the transfer market. However, given the financial constraints of clubs in the Americas compared to those in Europe, the next best option would be to promote the most promising talent from the clubs academy. 

That’s exactly what O Timao have done in the last couple of seasons, with the three most promising ones in the last 18 months or so being wingers, Wesley (18) and Biro (19) as well as centre back, Robert Renan (19), who recently moved to Zenit St. Petersburg. The latter are both members of Brazil’s star studded U20 National Team. The exciting news for the Corinthians’ faithful is that there’s yet another gem grasping the chances handed to him with both hands, the worrying part however is that just how long will they be able to fend off interest from the world’s best should his fine form continue. Enter Gabriel Moscardo. 

  ^{Voted Best player at the International FIFA Youth Cup Tournament, May 2023}

Born on September 28th 2005 in Taubaté, São Paulo, Moscardo joined the clubs youth setup as a 12 year old and has subsequently made vast progress through the ranks to now at only 17 find himself as potentially one of the brightest stars in the clubs recent history. The youngster has been nothing short of  commanding in the last couple of months for the clubs first team, consistently showcasing his fantastic ball-carrying ability, high defensive IQ, and satisfactory passing range at this level. 

He made his debut vs Liverpool Montevideo in the Copa Libertadores, coming on in the 79th minute as Corinthians came out 3-0 victors on the night (28 June 2023). Moscardo has since made 8 appearances in the Serie A, 2 in the Copa Libertadores, Brazil – Cup and Copa Sudamericana respectively. The natural born leader was also not so long ago rewarded with a call up to The Seleção’s preliminary U23 squad set to compete at next year’s Olympics. A testament to the strides he has taken in such a short space of time. 

^{Moscardo’s heatmap by Wyscout}

Predominantly a central midfielder, Gabriel has been deployed in either a single or double pivot in a more conservative capacity (in terms of his attacking duties) alongside veteran Giuliano by manager Vanderlei Luxembourgo. He’s currently averaging just under 47 touches per 90, which goes to show how involved he is in Corinthians’ build up. Moscardo’s pass completion rate is equally impressive at 83% (26.8 per game), although most of which have been in his own half; his progressive passing is slowly improving. As he gains more experience and confidence, he will certainly improve in the latter aspect by taking more risks. 

 

Understandably he doesn’t offer an immense direct goal threat given his deep lying role but with a proclivity to link up play well and even switch the point of attack in a single pass, as he can play accurate long/through balls at a fairly high rate thanks in large part to his measurable range. The importance of being able to control and dictate play from deep in midfield should not be understated in todays game. This allows the attacking players to receive the ball higher up the pitch and influence the attack closer to goal. Not only that, having a deep threat creates more space for the team in possession as the opposition is forced to commit at least a player to stop them from creating better opportunities as they progress further down the pitch.

 

However, perhaps the best way Gabriel influences matches going forward is by using his ball carrying expertise. This has always been a staple in his game, especially in bringing the ball up in space. His frame enables him to shield players off when pressured, using long strides to create separation between him and his marker. Off the ball, it’s common for him to make third man runs, which opponents can rarely pick up. These smart movements add versatility to his game and allow him to be a good box-to-box player, which brings similar advantages that his ball carrying from deep does.

 

Gabriel can also beat players off the dribble (1.4 per 90 at a success rate of 63%) if there is space either behind or laterally, smartly picking his moment to knock the ball into said areas, leveraging his physical superiority to keep the ball although at times in close quarters, he tends to lose the ball. This is most likely due to his height and build, which is normal at that age, seeing to the fact that he’s still growing into his body. Shifting the ball to his other foot is his usual go-to move to try and wriggle out of pressure, but defenders at the professional level are quick to read that. Enhancing his ball control in tight spaces and the addition of feints to his dribbling repertoire would make Moscardo an almost unstoppable ball carrier because he would be a threat in both short and long distances.

On the defensive side of things, the teenager does extremely well to regain possession for his team owing to his combative style which has seen him develop a knack of routinely winning duels, with 4.4 on the ground and 71% aerially (both per 90). A priceless trait for any midfielder operating deeper. When pushed higher into the number 8 role you can see the intensity, timing, and technique in his pressing clearly, highlighting his positional versatility. Operating as a 6, he isn’t required to do it constantly hence why his pressing numbers are low and his aptitude in this regard might be underrated.

 

Furthermore, he uses his physical edge greatly to influence the opposition’s next action. The midfielder is aggressive and can bully players off the ball or use his length to either step in for a last-ditch interception (1 per 90) or tackle the ball (2.6 per 90), demonstrating his good anticipation and concentration. In addition to his size and strength, Moscardo’s stamina is already world-class, allowing him to constantly chase players or get back in position just in time to delay the opposition’s attack, averaging around 4.7 balls recoveries per game, illustrating his importance in transitional moments as well.

The main thing that sets Gabriel apart is that he combines his physical and technical gifts proficiently along with his phenomenal defensive awareness. His expansive understanding of situations and space is already visible at such a young age. Moscardo constantly scans over both shoulders, which means he has a perpetual internal map of his teammates and the opposition. This situational awareness also comes in handy when defending in the box. His recognition of off-ball runs is exceptional, making sure to either pick them up himself or pointing at his teammates to tag onto the opposition to avoid them receiving the ball.

For set pieces, given his capacity to take long shots when afforded the time and space, he could be an ideal candidate to station outside the box, as he can cause the opposition a problem or two if said shot is on target; if possession is lost from these scenarios he has the defensive prowess to more than likely delay the attack or retrieve the ball back. 

Without a doubt the young Brazilian looks to have everything it takes to be a world class player in his position but is definitely still far from being the finished product as there are some small weaknesses in his defensive arsenal. For example, sometimes he gets dragged out of the midfield when teams overload players in between the lines. He often picks up the player beside him in a bid to block the passing lane or pressure them. This in turn leaves quite a bit of space between him and his midfield partners, allowing an opposition forward to drop in between them to pick up the ball. 

In addition to that, Gabriel sometimes lacks the necessary speed to keep up with wingers when forced to defend in wide areas, leaving him prone to being exposed. When he can position himself in front of a winger out wide, he can hold his own in 1v1 situations, but gets caught out when trying to keep up with a player already on the move. These two issues are only minor and the positives to his game far outweigh the negatives in the grand scheme of things. 

In conclusion, Moscardo is a near-complete midfielder at his age whose wide variety of skills allow him to play multiple roles in the middle of the park. His potential as an on-ball creator is so apparent that some of the best clubs in the world already have his name shortlisted as a possible transfer target. With rumors prematurely swirling, Barcelona, Arsenal and Chelsea are just some of the teams reported to be monitoring his progress. His immediate attributes are extremely portable to elite teams as great defensive-minded leaders that are good on the ball fit well in almost all tactical setup.

All the same, if the top clubs want to look at signing him, it would probably be best to maybe wait a season or two to see whether his development can take a further leap as a lot can happen between the ages of 17 and 20. Delaying his sale would also be beneficial for Corinthians, as they could cash in on a much more complete player compared to now. With that being said, Moscardo is definitely one to keep an eye on in the future as he is undeniably talented enough to reach the pinnacle of the game. 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Vesper

[OneMoSalah 8,777]

32 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Corinthians

Gabriel Moscardo

and he is 17 (18 in 4 days)

GABRIEL MOSCARDO – THE FUTURE OF BRAZIL’S MIDFIELD

https://footballtalentscout.net/2023/09/21/gabriel-moscardo-the-steering-wheel-by-vuyo-ndebele/

Name: Gabriel Moscardo

Position: CM/DM

Preferred foot: Right

Height: 6’1/1.85M

Age: 17

Main Strengths: heading, tackling, concentration, decision making & work rate.

Although Corinthians are the third most successful club in Brazil’s Serie A history with seven league titles, behind only Palmeiras (11) and Santos (8), they have struggled of late to close that gap, with their last title coming in 2017 and a highest finish of fourth since (2022). As it goes more often than not when teams struggle, clubs and coaches alike often look for solutions elsewhere, with most opting to spend in the transfer market. However, given the financial constraints of clubs in the Americas compared to those in Europe, the next best option would be to promote the most promising talent from the clubs academy. 

That’s exactly what O Timao have done in the last couple of seasons, with the three most promising ones in the last 18 months or so being wingers, Wesley (18) and Biro (19) as well as centre back, Robert Renan (19), who recently moved to Zenit St. Petersburg. The latter are both members of Brazil’s star studded U20 National Team. The exciting news for the Corinthians’ faithful is that there’s yet another gem grasping the chances handed to him with both hands, the worrying part however is that just how long will they be able to fend off interest from the world’s best should his fine form continue. Enter Gabriel Moscardo. 

  ^{Voted Best player at the International FIFA Youth Cup Tournament, May 2023}

Born on September 28th 2005 in Taubaté, São Paulo, Moscardo joined the clubs youth setup as a 12 year old and has subsequently made vast progress through the ranks to now at only 17 find himself as potentially one of the brightest stars in the clubs recent history. The youngster has been nothing short of  commanding in the last couple of months for the clubs first team, consistently showcasing his fantastic ball-carrying ability, high defensive IQ, and satisfactory passing range at this level. 

He made his debut vs Liverpool Montevideo in the Copa Libertadores, coming on in the 79th minute as Corinthians came out 3-0 victors on the night (28 June 2023). Moscardo has since made 8 appearances in the Serie A, 2 in the Copa Libertadores, Brazil – Cup and Copa Sudamericana respectively. The natural born leader was also not so long ago rewarded with a call up to The Seleção’s preliminary U23 squad set to compete at next year’s Olympics. A testament to the strides he has taken in such a short space of time. 

^{Moscardo’s heatmap by Wyscout}

Predominantly a central midfielder, Gabriel has been deployed in either a single or double pivot in a more conservative capacity (in terms of his attacking duties) alongside veteran Giuliano by manager Vanderlei Luxembourgo. He’s currently averaging just under 47 touches per 90, which goes to show how involved he is in Corinthians’ build up. Moscardo’s pass completion rate is equally impressive at 83% (26.8 per game), although most of which have been in his own half; his progressive passing is slowly improving. As he gains more experience and confidence, he will certainly improve in the latter aspect by taking more risks. 

 

Understandably he doesn’t offer an immense direct goal threat given his deep lying role but with a proclivity to link up play well and even switch the point of attack in a single pass, as he can play accurate long/through balls at a fairly high rate thanks in large part to his measurable range. The importance of being able to control and dictate play from deep in midfield should not be understated in todays game. This allows the attacking players to receive the ball higher up the pitch and influence the attack closer to goal. Not only that, having a deep threat creates more space for the team in possession as the opposition is forced to commit at least a player to stop them from creating better opportunities as they progress further down the pitch.

 

However, perhaps the best way Gabriel influences matches going forward is by using his ball carrying expertise. This has always been a staple in his game, especially in bringing the ball up in space. His frame enables him to shield players off when pressured, using long strides to create separation between him and his marker. Off the ball, it’s common for him to make third man runs, which opponents can rarely pick up. These smart movements add versatility to his game and allow him to be a good box-to-box player, which brings similar advantages that his ball carrying from deep does.

 

Gabriel can also beat players off the dribble (1.4 per 90 at a success rate of 63%) if there is space either behind or laterally, smartly picking his moment to knock the ball into said areas, leveraging his physical superiority to keep the ball although at times in close quarters, he tends to lose the ball. This is most likely due to his height and build, which is normal at that age, seeing to the fact that he’s still growing into his body. Shifting the ball to his other foot is his usual go-to move to try and wriggle out of pressure, but defenders at the professional level are quick to read that. Enhancing his ball control in tight spaces and the addition of feints to his dribbling repertoire would make Moscardo an almost unstoppable ball carrier because he would be a threat in both short and long distances.

On the defensive side of things, the teenager does extremely well to regain possession for his team owing to his combative style which has seen him develop a knack of routinely winning duels, with 4.4 on the ground and 71% aerially (both per 90). A priceless trait for any midfielder operating deeper. When pushed higher into the number 8 role you can see the intensity, timing, and technique in his pressing clearly, highlighting his positional versatility. Operating as a 6, he isn’t required to do it constantly hence why his pressing numbers are low and his aptitude in this regard might be underrated.

 

Furthermore, he uses his physical edge greatly to influence the opposition’s next action. The midfielder is aggressive and can bully players off the ball or use his length to either step in for a last-ditch interception (1 per 90) or tackle the ball (2.6 per 90), demonstrating his good anticipation and concentration. In addition to his size and strength, Moscardo’s stamina is already world-class, allowing him to constantly chase players or get back in position just in time to delay the opposition’s attack, averaging around 4.7 balls recoveries per game, illustrating his importance in transitional moments as well.

The main thing that sets Gabriel apart is that he combines his physical and technical gifts proficiently along with his phenomenal defensive awareness. His expansive understanding of situations and space is already visible at such a young age. Moscardo constantly scans over both shoulders, which means he has a perpetual internal map of his teammates and the opposition. This situational awareness also comes in handy when defending in the box. His recognition of off-ball runs is exceptional, making sure to either pick them up himself or pointing at his teammates to tag onto the opposition to avoid them receiving the ball.

For set pieces, given his capacity to take long shots when afforded the time and space, he could be an ideal candidate to station outside the box, as he can cause the opposition a problem or two if said shot is on target; if possession is lost from these scenarios he has the defensive prowess to more than likely delay the attack or retrieve the ball back. 

Without a doubt the young Brazilian looks to have everything it takes to be a world class player in his position but is definitely still far from being the finished product as there are some small weaknesses in his defensive arsenal. For example, sometimes he gets dragged out of the midfield when teams overload players in between the lines. He often picks up the player beside him in a bid to block the passing lane or pressure them. This in turn leaves quite a bit of space between him and his midfield partners, allowing an opposition forward to drop in between them to pick up the ball. 

In addition to that, Gabriel sometimes lacks the necessary speed to keep up with wingers when forced to defend in wide areas, leaving him prone to being exposed. When he can position himself in front of a winger out wide, he can hold his own in 1v1 situations, but gets caught out when trying to keep up with a player already on the move. These two issues are only minor and the positives to his game far outweigh the negatives in the grand scheme of things. 

In conclusion, Moscardo is a near-complete midfielder at his age whose wide variety of skills allow him to play multiple roles in the middle of the park. His potential as an on-ball creator is so apparent that some of the best clubs in the world already have his name shortlisted as a possible transfer target. With rumors prematurely swirling, Barcelona, Arsenal and Chelsea are just some of the teams reported to be monitoring his progress. His immediate attributes are extremely portable to elite teams as great defensive-minded leaders that are good on the ball fit well in almost all tactical setup.

All the same, if the top clubs want to look at signing him, it would probably be best to maybe wait a season or two to see whether his development can take a further leap as a lot can happen between the ages of 17 and 20. Delaying his sale would also be beneficial for Corinthians, as they could cash in on a much more complete player compared to now. With that being said, Moscardo is definitely one to keep an eye on in the future as he is undeniably talented enough to reach the pinnacle of the game. 

 

Another player who is aged between 17-21 and if signed, will go in to the group of 4 current more defensively minded midfielders we have already on the books after Caicedo, Ugo, Lavia & Santos. 100% two of them are not going to make it here if so. Only so much playing time available when everyones fit and only 25 squad places. Would be Southgate esque to make up a 25 man squad and have 5 defensive minded midfielders in it 🤣

[Vesper 28,801]

12 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Another player who is aged between 17-21 and if signed, will go in to the group of 4 current more defensively minded midfielders we have already on the books after Caicedo, Ugo, Lavia & Santos. 100% two of them are not going to make it here if so. Only so much playing time available when everyones fit and only 25 squad places. Would be Southgate esque to make up a 25 man squad and have 5 defensive minded midfielders in it 🤣

Chelsea cool interest in Brazilian starlet Gabriel Moscardo as they baulk at Corinthians' massive asking price

https://www.goal.com/en-in/news/Chelsea-cool-interest-brazilian-starlet-gabriel-moscardo-corinthians-massive-asking-price/bltf444fc8a767b5d4a

Chelsea have reportedly cooled their interest in Brazilian starlet Gabriel Moscardo as a result of Corinthians' huge demands for the teenager.

• 17-year-old touted as next potential star
• Capped at Brazil youth level
• Reported fee has deterred Chelsea

WHAT HAPPENED? According to IG in Brazil, Chelsea have been put off by the midfielder's valuation, with current club Corinthians seeking a fee of around €30 million ($32m/£26m). The Blues submitted a bid of €21m (£18m/$23m) in the summer but saw their approach rejected.

THE BIGGER PICTURE: At only 17, Moscardo has continued to catch the attention of potential suitors around Europe, with Barcelona another club said to be keeping a close eye on his development. Part of the deal Chelsea proposed would have seen the teenager move back to Brazil to further enhance his talents, but for now it seems he will remain in his home country.

WHAT NEXT FOR Chelsea AND MOSCARDO?: With Brazil's domestic 2023-24 campaign yet to get going, chances are Moscardo's name will continue to be one buzzing around Chelsea's radar when the January transfer window swings around. Whether the Blues feel the starlet remains high up on their list of priorities remains to be seen.

 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

I haven't seen anymore of Andrey Santos than I had when I gave an opinion about him previously. That's to say, YouTube clips, and our preseason games only. That opinion was that I had seen nothing to suggest Andrey can help us. In the absence of any new evidence, I'm stuck where I was before, and so I don't find his situation with Forrest surprising.

My only hopes for this lad lie in the fact that others here have seen more of him than I have and liked what they saw. Meanwhile, a bad loan is not the end of the world. Harry Kane, for example, had one or two dodgy ones before everything came together for him.

Edited September 25, 2023 by OhForAGreavsie

[Vesper 28,801]

Andrey Santos: What’s going on with his loan from Chelsea to Nottingham Forest

https://theathletic.com/4925498/2023/10/04/andrey-santos-forest-Chelsea-loan/

In the final 30 minutes of Nottingham Forest’s 1-1 draw with Brentford on Sunday, Chelsea loanee Andrey Santos was spotted by home supporters leaving the substitutes’ bench at the City Ground and disappearing down the tunnel. The reason for his early exit might have been innocuous — professional footballers visit the bathroom like everyone else — but given the circumstances, it was never going to be interpreted that way.

More than a month into his season-long loan spell from Stamford Bridge, Santos is still waiting to make his Premier League debut for Forest. He has appeared just once, starting a Carabao Cup defeat against Burnley on August 30. He did not even make Steve Cooper’s matchday squad for Forest’s trip to Manchester City on September 23.

It would be understandable if the 19-year-old feels frustrated. That is certainly the mood among many Chelsea fans who were excited by the talent Santos showed this summer, both on the club’s pre-season tour of the United States and as Brazil’s captain at the Under-20 World Cup in Argentina.

There are already calls for Chelsea to recall him in January, which the club could do by activating a break clause in the loan agreement. Forest also incur mutually-agreed financial penalties for not playing Santos when he is fit. But, at this stage, it is simply a situation to monitor and Chelsea are in regular contact with Forest, Cooper and the Brazilian to provide support.

Santos’ slow start must be placed in proper context. Forest have played five Premier League matches since the loan move was finalised. The first, a 3-2 defeat to Manchester United at Old Trafford, was the day after his arrival was announced. The second was away at parent club Chelsea, a fixture for which he was ineligible.

Concern has spiked in the last three matches. Santos was an unused substitute at home to Burnley in the Premier League on September 18, with Cooper instead turning to Ryan Yates when replacing Orel Mangala in the second half. After being left out entirely against City the following weekend, he watched Morgan Gibbs-White and Cheikhou Kouyate deployed as Forest’s midfield reinforcements from the bench against Brentford.

It is very possible that Santos will feature more prominently against Crystal Palace on Saturday, particularly since Forest’s injury list now features midfielders Yates, Danilo and Nicolas Dominguez. Cooper, who led England Under-17s to World Cup glory in 2017, is also highly regarded within the game as a developer of young talent — he helped Cobham graduates Conor Gallagher and Marc Guehi during his time as coach of Swansea City.

GO DEEPER

What Chelsea can expect from Andrey Santos, their exciting new Brazilian midfielder

There is no suggestion of any issue between Cooper and Santos, and the example of Danilo may prove more instructive of how this loan spell develops. Signed by Forest from Brazilian champions Palmeiras in a deal worth around £18million in January, the 22-year-old did not become a regular starter for Forest in the Premier League until April, as he adapted to a new country, team and level of competition.

Santos arrived in England to more fanfare than Danilo, given his status as Brazil Under-20s captain, but he had considerably less senior experience. His professional body of work before joining Chelsea in January comprised of one full season for Vasco da Gama in the second division in his homeland, subsequently burnished with six top-flight appearances when he rejoined his former club on loan for the second half of last season.

Chelsea had no shortage of clubs interested in taking Santos on loan for 2023-24, with Porto, Benfica and Lyon some of the more high-profile suitors. Forest’s appeal lay in their offer of Premier League football and Cooper’s record of youth development. The fact that their squad contains a growing enclave of Brazilians did not hurt their chances of acquiring a 19-year-old who had recently arrived in England with limited English.

Then there was the fact that Chelsea’s seven international loan spots were squeezed by the failure to sell Romelu Lukaku and Hakim Ziyech — who would go out on international loans instead — and the decision to loan Kepa Arrizabalaga to Real Madrid. Within that context, Forest’s offer of a domestic loan for Santos made sense — but if this agreement does not work out as hoped, conversation at Cobham should linger on other factors that may have been underestimated.

One is that Santos did not join Forest until the final week of August. That was primarily because Chelsea spent much of the summer window not knowing if they would sign both Moises Caicedo and Romeo Lavia, but it meant the 19-year-old missed all of Cooper’s pre-season, immediately putting him below the club’s established midfield options in the pecking order.

Another is that, after securing Santos, Forest went out and spent a combined £37million to sign two other central midfielders — Dominguez from Bologna and Ibrahim Sangare from PSV Eindhoven — on transfer deadline day. Suddenly Santos’ path to Premier League minutes was made much more difficult.

Perhaps that should have been a bigger consideration, in light of the fact that Forest’s appetite for recruitment since their promotion to the Premier League has rivalled that of Chelsea under Todd Boehly and Clearlake Capital; 29 players arrived at the City Ground on loan deals or permanent transfers last season, and Santos was one of 13 faces brought in this summer.

There is still plenty of time for Santos to force his way into Cooper’s team and establish himself as a key contributor for Forest, perhaps in the coming weeks. Chelsea will be watching closely, because he is too promising a talent to stagnate on the fringes of another Premier League squad.

GO DEEPER

Brazil start over after World Cup heartache with most experimental squad in years

 

[James 5,198]

 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,477]

 

[Vesper 28,801]

3 hours ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

 

worst loan move in years

so stupid