Chelsea Transfers

[Nicco 927]

37 minutes ago, the wes said:

Chelsea have Crystal Palace's Ivory Coast forward Wilfried Zaha, 26, and RB Leipzig's Germany international striker Timo Werner, 23, on their wanted list as they prepare for potential January bids if their transfer ban is lifted. (Express)

No way we get Zaha, I absolutely refuse to believe this club can be this dumb again after Drinkwater, you only need to look at this stats to see this guy is an overhyped dud.

[King Kante 1,300]

11 hours ago, 1905didierblue said:

So we don't have experienced pros? Jorginho, kovacic, Kante, willian, azpi, kepa, Emerson, Rudi, zouma. If those teams were never just kids, even ours is not. Infact our first team would have atleast 6 players above 24/25 (willian, Kante, jorginho, azpi, rudi, Emerson, kepa).

Stop making comparison with arsenal because our youth are way more talented than them. We have the perfect mixture of youth and experienced players. Tell me the names of arsenal youth and what they had won when they were introduced into the first team. Also most of our youth have seasons of loan experience under their belts and they have proved themselves in various stages of football. 

Our problem with set pieces has nothing to do with height. It's more a system issue which lamps seems to have addressed. Now we are a mixture of zonal and man marking rather than just zonal. 

The point is not to buy for the sake of it. Buys which would stop the coming of youth players. For eg players like Barkley and Pedro, who are senior pros but have no use to the squad. 

A LB, a 2nd ST like Werner while giving youth like puli, Cho, Reece, tomori, Tammy, mount time to improve will be more than enough.

Of the experienced players you list. Azpi is limited and not really a RB for the modern game, whilst it would not be surprising to see Willian leave either. Rudi is a concern with his injury record and Zouma splits opinion on his ability level. You appear to see Zouma as a world class CB, whilst I see a good PL defender who isn't taking us to league titles and deep into the CL. 

As for CM, I do not disagree we have good players but rather that the balance in there is not right as it is currently dominated by small technical players. I do not see that selling Barkley and getting in one of the players I listed is such a crazy idea. 

RE: youth. Yes, we have talented players but as you point out one of the reasons ours have done so well is due to their loan experiences. Tammy for instance had three years out, and Mount two. The players you are talking about such as Gallagher and Gilmour have has a quarter and zero, so it is a leap to say they are ready to go at this point. The real player we have on our books that could come in is Ampadu but he seems to have problems with growing pains and isn't getting time in Germany. So again, a further year or so of loans may be best for him so that he can play. 

Lastly, I do not disagree with your last paragraph. However, with Pedro gone and maybe Willian we will need another AM, as we cannot just have CHO, Puli and if brought, Werner as our AM's for a season. At CM we agree that Barkley needs to go so it is just a case of who do you replace him with, another youth, who currently have minimal loan experience (your idea) or a player whos qualities we do not have currently to prove more balance (my idea.) The only thing we seem to really be disagreeing on is CB as you seem comfortable with Rudi's injury record and appear confident that Zouma is world class, or will be shortly. 

[King Kante 1,300]

6 hours ago, Nicco said:

No way we get Zaha, I absolutely refuse to believe this club can be this dumb again after Drinkwater, you only need to look at this stats to see this guy is an overhyped dud.

I would not go so far as dud but he is a player we should be avoiding. He is cost us a lot as he is Palace's best player and they do not need to sell. He will want massive wages as it will be his last contract and after a couple of seasons his resale value will be zero as he is 27 in a few days and he is a AM who relies on his pace and physical attributes. 

[Jase 43,479]

8 hours ago, Tomo said:

I've got a feeling contract talks will break down with Willian and I feel a marquee signing Is needed there, even if it was Sancho at £100m the intensity of our game will require a lot of rotation and 3 into 2 will go fine, even 4 in 2 with Willian staying.

Rotation is one thing but how much can you really rotate if it's 3 young players vying for 2 starting spots? At some point, they would want to nail down a starting spot for the benefit of their own development as a player. 

Also as much as the novelty of playing young (and English) players is nice, we need to be careful not to lean too heavily onto that side. We need to make sure that there's a nice balance of experience and youth in the squad, a bit like now. 

[Pizy 17,860]

Seems like I'm the only Zaha fan here. I'd love him in Chelsea blue. He'd be super motivated after a big move and will actually have players around him at or above his talent level so he doesn't have to shoulder as much responsibility as he does at Palace. Watching him against Leicester the other day and saw him rage at his teammates about 4 different times because their lack of quality couldn't get him the ball. You can tell he's hungry and aggressive which would suit us well. He's direct as hell and skips past players at will. I'll take him in a heartbeat as a long term Pedro and eventually Willian replacement.

If not Zaha, the Sancho rumor sounds nice. Maybe we could offer Dortmund a similar deal as we did with Pulisic. Buy him in Jan, let them keep him til the summer, and then he moves here. Win for all parties.

Can't believe I'm saying this after being terrified of how we'd do this season back in the summer, but I'm not sure we even need any January signings otherwise. We're well stocked in all areas. We're at least 2 deep in every position when everyone is fit. Makes more sense to buy next summer when Giroud, Pedro, maybe Alonso and Willian are gone than to buy for the sake of it in January.

[ulsterchelsea 3,213]

Zaha... Nope! Werner chillwell and Sancho sounds like good business but honestly I'd be happy seeing no one else arriving till the summer. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,200]

Werner, Sancho, and Chilwell would make a fantastic summer window. 

Just need a natural DM

[1905didierblue 748]

5 hours ago, King Kante said:

Of the experienced players you list. Azpi is limited and not really a RB for the modern game, whilst it would not be surprising to see Willian leave either. Rudi is a concern with his injury record and Zouma splits opinion on his ability level. You appear to see Zouma as a world class CB, whilst I see a good PL defender who isn't taking us to league titles and deep into the CL. 

As for CM, I do not disagree we have good players but rather that the balance in there is not right as it is currently dominated by small technical players. I do not see that selling Barkley and getting in one of the players I listed is such a crazy idea. 

RE: youth. Yes, we have talented players but as you point out one of the reasons ours have done so well is due to their loan experiences. Tammy for instance had three years out, and Mount two. The players you are talking about such as Gallagher and Gilmour have has a quarter and zero, so it is a leap to say they are ready to go at this point. The real player we have on our books that could come in is Ampadu but he seems to have problems with growing pains and isn't getting time in Germany. So again, a further year or so of loans may be best for him so that he can play. 

Lastly, I do not disagree with your last paragraph. However, with Pedro gone and maybe Willian we will need another AM, as we cannot just have CHO, Puli and if brought, Werner as our AM's for a season. At CM we agree that Barkley needs to go so it is just a case of who do you replace him with, another youth, who currently have minimal loan experience (your idea) or a player whos qualities we do not have currently to prove more balance (my idea.) The only thing we seem to really be disagreeing on is CB as you seem comfortable with Rudi's injury record and appear confident that Zouma is world class, or will be shortly. 

If willian leaves, then yes, we need a replacement. But in my assumption, willian will get an extension making the whole point moot. Azpi is a multiple pl winner, El winner etc etc. Even if his attacking leaves things to be desired, he is a brilliant right back and player to have. 

It's not a crazy idea, just a redundant one. Because simply put, CMs are the one position we don't need reinforcements. Just because someone is 6foot 5 does not mean we should buy and play. And over whom? Kante? Jorginho? Mount? It's not going to happen and I can bet that we are not buying a CM this window or next sunmer unless we have a departure of one of Kante, jorginho, kova.

Gilmour and Gallagher can be included in the squad next year in place of Barkley. But in no way would they be the reason of how we perform. I am here talking about the core of Tammy, mount, Reece, Andreas, Cho, tomori. Who have shown they belong at this level. They will improve which will help us improve. And that's the main point. 

I think the main difference is that for me there are only 2 compulsory buys - LB, 2nd ST. I would keep the starting 11 the same as it is now. For me, it's about improving the quality in depth. Whereas you want a CM, St, cb, am , fb (rb and lb). Which is 6 players and 1/4th of the whole squad. I don't feel our squad is anywhere near as bad.

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

Chilwell, Sancho and Werner would be insane!!! 

[Vesper 27,337]

6 hours ago, King Kante said:

I would not go so far as dud but he is a player we should be avoiding. He is cost us a lot as he is Palace's best player and they do not need to sell. He will want massive wages as it will be his last contract and after a couple of seasons his resale value will be zero as he is 27 in a few days and he is a AM who relies on his pace and physical attributes. 

As a winger, I would have to say dud given what is reputation is versus what his production is

PLUS, as you said, IF we did buy him next summer, we only get 2 full sub 30yo seasons out of him, he turns 30 in only 3 years, 5 days, so say 3 peak (if you count a 2//3rds of a season at 30yo as a peak year, which I probably would, although for most wingers it would be the last or near last year before a significant turndown in play, as most players are not genetic freaks like CR7 or Messi or Zlatan) years left, MAX, and a vastly reduced resale value after that

Zaha literally has NO GOALS this season, in almost a thousand minutes, on a fairly decently performing Palace team

Zaha has 32 total EPL goals in close to 15,000 MINUTES!!!!  (to put that into perspective, in Messi's top 15,000 minute run in his career he scored 234 goals, all comps for club and country, which is over TWO HUNDRED MORE, roflmaooooo) <<<< and Messi was putting in SILLY, insane total minute seasons (so cray cray stress and fatigue) on occasion in that time, more than double some of Zaha's total season minutes whilst still scoring at an average strike rate that is 700% (no not 70%, SEVEN FUCKING HUNDRED percent) GREATER

Zaha's rate is one league goal every 457 minutes (in other words it takes him more that 5 full games to score a league goal, and more than 5 games in reality as he never comes close to averaging a full 90 minutes for every league game in a season (which would mean 3420 minutes for a full 38 game season)

 To be fair no wingers play every single minute of all 38 league games, especially at a world class club level like we are at, what with 2 domestic cups and Europe (EL or CL) also in the mix, plus an occasional CS and/or Super Cup and/or FWCC tossed in too, but it is madness to think that an extra 500 to 1000 minutes more (in non PL games)  a season will make him score MORE league goals, he already has durability issues

 

[the wes 7,212]

31 minutes ago, Vesper said:

As a winger, I would have to say dud given what is reputation is versus what his production is

PLUS, as you said, IF we did buy him next summer, we only get 2 full sub 30yo seasons out of him, he turns 30 in only 3 years, 5 days, so say 3 peak (if you count a 2//3rds of a season at 30yo as a peak year, which I probably would, although for most wingers it would be the last or near last year before a significant turndown in play, as most players are not genetic freaks like CR7 or Messi or Zlatan) years left, MAX, and a vastly reduced resale value after that

Zaha literally has NO GOALS this season, in almost a thousand minutes, on a fairly decently performing Palace team

Zaha has 32 total EPL goals in close to 15,000 MINUTES!!!!  (to put that into perspective, in Messi's top 15,000 minute run in his career he scored 234 goals, all comps for club and country, which is over TWO HUNDRED MORE, roflmaooooo) <<<< and Messi was putting in SILLY, insane total minute seasons (so cray cray stress and fatigue) on occasion in that time, more than double some of Zaha's total season minutes whilst still scoring at an average strike rate that is 700% (no not 70%, SEVEN FUCKING HUNDRED percent) GREATER

Zaha's rate is one league goal every 457 minutes (in other words it takes him more that 5 full games to score a league goal, and more than 5 games in reality as he never comes close to averaging a full 90 minutes for every league game in a season (which would mean 3420 minutes for a full 38 game season)

 To be fair no wingers play every single minute of all 38 league games, especially at a world class club level like we are at, what with 2 domestic cups and Europe (EL or CL) also in the mix, plus an occasional CS and/or Super Cup and/or FWCC tossed in too, but it is madness to think that an extra 500 to 1000 minutes more (in non PL games)  a season will make him score MORE league goals, he already has durability issues

 

Do you think players form drop when they want out of a club?? last season zaha was great teams had to double up on him because he was a handful look at bailey for example since he told Bayer Leverkusen he want to leave his form has dropped big time there was talk that bailey was going to be the next big thing in Germany 

[1905didierblue 748]

Werner and chillwell would be great. If willian extends, I would say no on Sancho. Would rather continue the development of Cho and pulisic.

[Vesper 27,337]

2 hours ago, the wes said:

Do you think players form drop when they want out of a club?? last season zaha was great teams had to double up on him because he was a handful look at bailey for example since he told Bayer Leverkusen he want to leave his form has dropped big time there was talk that bailey was going to be the next big thing in Germany 

perhaps

exhibit A

Eriksen!

Zaha at £40m, fine (IF we fail on the only actually available non-Mbappe winger I truly rate, that being Sancho)

Zaha at £80m?

Palace can fuck off

[killer1257 3,282]

Is Zaha playing bad or is he just not able to score right now? Because Zaha plays for a shit team and it is hard to score goals when you play for a shit team. I have seen some posts here that compare Messi with Zaha. Obviously, Messi is way better than Zaha, but Messi playes for Barcelona and I am pretty sure that if Zaha played for Barcelona, he would have scored way more goals. Of course not the same amount of Messi

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[King Kante 1,300]

4 hours ago, 1905didierblue said:

If willian leaves, then yes, we need a replacement. But in my assumption, willian will get an extension making the whole point moot. Azpi is a multiple pl winner, El winner etc etc. Even if his attacking leaves things to be desired, he is a brilliant right back and player to have. 

It's not a crazy idea, just a redundant one. Because simply put, CMs are the one position we don't need reinforcements. Just because someone is 6foot 5 does not mean we should buy and play. And over whom? Kante? Jorginho? Mount? It's not going to happen and I can bet that we are not buying a CM this window or next sunmer unless we have a departure of one of Kante, jorginho, kova.

Gilmour and Gallagher can be included in the squad next year in place of Barkley. But in no way would they be the reason of how we perform. I am here talking about the core of Tammy, mount, Reece, Andreas, Cho, tomori. Who have shown they belong at this level. They will improve which will help us improve. And that's the main point. 

I think the main difference is that for me there are only 2 compulsory buys - LB, 2nd ST. I would keep the starting 11 the same as it is now. For me, it's about improving the quality in depth. Whereas you want a CM, St, cb, am , fb (rb and lb). Which is 6 players and 1/4th of the whole squad. I don't feel our squad is anywhere near as bad.

I actually said, I wanted a: 

CF2

CM (to replace Barkley and because I can see Granny taking £100m bid on Kante)

1 x FB (but was undecided on whether it should be a RB or LB)

1 x AM in 2021 (if Willian extends in the Summer and if not then this Summer) 

CB (as I do not rate Zouma and I worry about Rudi's fitness)

That is 4 players this Summer with a AM in 2021. I never said I wanted two full backs and a AM in 2020 if Willian extends. 

[King Kante 1,300]

3 hours ago, Vesper said:

As a winger, I would have to say dud given what is reputation is versus what his production is

PLUS, as you said, IF we did buy him next summer, we only get 2 full sub 30yo seasons out of him, he turns 30 in only 3 years, 5 days, so say 3 peak (if you count a 2//3rds of a season at 30yo as a peak year, which I probably would, although for most wingers it would be the last or near last year before a significant turndown in play, as most players are not genetic freaks like CR7 or Messi or Zlatan) years left, MAX, and a vastly reduced resale value after that

Zaha literally has NO GOALS this season, in almost a thousand minutes, on a fairly decently performing Palace team

Zaha has 32 total EPL goals in close to 15,000 MINUTES!!!!  (to put that into perspective, in Messi's top 15,000 minute run in his career he scored 234 goals, all comps for club and country, which is over TWO HUNDRED MORE, roflmaooooo) <<<< and Messi was putting in SILLY, insane total minute seasons (so cray cray stress and fatigue) on occasion in that time, more than double some of Zaha's total season minutes whilst still scoring at an average strike rate that is 700% (no not 70%, SEVEN FUCKING HUNDRED percent) GREATER

Zaha's rate is one league goal every 457 minutes (in other words it takes him more that 5 full games to score a league goal, and more than 5 games in reality as he never comes close to averaging a full 90 minutes for every league game in a season (which would mean 3420 minutes for a full 38 game season)

 To be fair no wingers play every single minute of all 38 league games, especially at a world class club level like we are at, what with 2 domestic cups and Europe (EL or CL) also in the mix, plus an occasional CS and/or Super Cup and/or FWCC tossed in too, but it is madness to think that an extra 500 to 1000 minutes more (in non PL games)  a season will make him score MORE league goals, he already has durability issues

 

To be fair I do not think anyone thinks he is Messi/CR7 or Zlatan level. Also, I do think playing for Palace, especially when you want to leave means that goal output is lower than if you're playing for a top club. Do not get me wrong, I do not want him but I also do not think he would end up like a Drinky or Baka. 

[Vesper 27,337]

40 minutes ago, King Kante said:

To be fair I do not think anyone thinks he is Messi/CR7 or Zlatan level. Also, I do think playing for Palace, especially when you want to leave means that goal output is lower than if you're playing for a top club. Do not get me wrong, I do not want him but I also do not think he would end up like a Drinky or Baka. 

I am aware of the huge gulf between peak Messi and all but maybe 10 players in history

I only tossed those stats out to show the INSANE gap in quality

200 MORE goals in what for peak Messi was 3 or 3.5 seasons minutes is CRAY

700% more productivity

 

[whats happening 1,440]

if the club is deciding between extending willian or bringing in sancho...i dont know...

also why is everyone saying we need a dm? jorginho is our dm and he is our best player this season, we dont need a replacment. jorginho+kante+ 1 more (mount, rlc, kovacic) for next season is enough for both tactics.

 

also, how is chillwell defensively?