Kai Havertz

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

  On 12/07/2020 at 19:42, Jason said:

Provided she doesn't get too greedy!

Expand  

?? How would we know that she had in the past? Why is that even a question? She seems to constantly get us good deals. Not sure what you mean

[Jase 43,479]

  On 12/07/2020 at 20:08, ulsterchelsea said:

?? How would we know that she had in the past? Why is that even a question? She seems to constantly get us good deals. Not sure what you mean

Expand  

I meant her setting the fee too high that clubs are not willing to pay. 

[Pizy 18,543]

Sign him tomorrow before we bottle it on Tuesday! 😭

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

  On 12/07/2020 at 20:10, Jason said:

I meant her setting the fee too high that clubs are not willing to pay. 

Expand  

I'm sure she'll see us right

[Jase 43,479]

  On 12/07/2020 at 21:11, ulsterchelsea said:

I'm sure she'll see us right

Expand  

You're talking about someone who didn't want to sell Willian for 60-70 million...

[Puliiszola 519]

  On 12/07/2020 at 21:17, Jason said:

You're talking about someone who didn't want to sell Willian for 60-70 million...

Expand  

And a brilliant decision that was. Imagine losing willian and getting a new winger, all the while knowing that hazard IS going to leave us the next year, with a ban on the horizon. (Because that is exactly what our board would have been expecting in the summer of 18)

People seriously need to give board the credit that it deserves. And atleast think things through. Imagine not having willian this season and replace him with another young unproven winger or an expensive one (though not many options were there at that point). 

In all, like I said, a brilliant decision.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 12/07/2020 at 21:36, Puliiszola said:

And a brilliant decision that was. Imagine losing willian and getting a new winger, all the while knowing that hazard IS going to leave us the next year, with a ban on the horizon. 

People seriously need to give board the credit that it deserves. And atleast think things through. Imagine not having willian this season and replace him with another young unproven winger or an expensive one (though not many options were there at that point). 

In all, like I said, a brilliant decision.

Expand  

Am sure @Vesper has drawn up a list of potential replacements for Willian back then somewhere. But you're kinda focusing only on the downside had we sold Willian when we could have easily gotten the big fee for him and gotten someone younger and better. And let's face it, Willian is consistently average. He will put in 5 exceptional performances out of 50 games per season and the rest he just doesn't do much but people will think he's great and all that. 

[killer1257 3,282]

  On 12/07/2020 at 21:44, Jason said:

Am sure [mention=16599]Vesper[/mention] has drawn up a list of potential replacements for Willian back then somewhere. But you're kinda focusing only on the downside had we sold Willian when we could have easily gotten the big fee for him and gotten someone younger and better. And let's face it, Willian is consistently average. He will put in 5 exceptional performances out of 50 games per season and the rest he just doesn't do much but people will think he's great and all that. 

The problem is that he may be average, but all coaches love and rate him, especially at the beginning. Sarri said that Willian will not leave Chelsea because he rates him highly. In the end, Willian was on the bench and Pedro was playing

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

[Puliiszola 519]

  On 12/07/2020 at 21:44, Jason said:

Am sure @Vesper has drawn up a list of potential replacements for Willian back then somewhere. But you're kinda focusing only on the downside had we sold Willian when we could have easily gotten the big fee for him and gotten someone younger and better. And let's face it, Willian is consistently average. He will put in 5 exceptional performances out of 50 games per season and the rest he just doesn't do much but people will think he's great and all that. 

Expand  

Willian always provided balance. His work rate allowed hazard to have the freedom of the world while himself kept adding a body in midfield. I am sure if a young available winger was there, we would have done the deal, I mean we did do it for pulisic did not we?

I am sure if he was so replacable as we fans feel, then Rafa, hiddink, Jose, Conte, sarri or lamps would have. Even now lamps would not be saying that he wants willian to stay (he is not fighting for pedro, so we know it's not just out of courtesy). 

Point is, people think it's simple, while it really is not. Those people are at those positions for a reason and they are doing a good job. 

[Jase 43,479]

  On 12/07/2020 at 21:53, Puliiszola said:

I am sure if he was so replacable as we fans feel, then Rafa, hiddink, Jose, Conte, sarri or lamps would have. Even now lamps would not be saying that he wants willian to stay (he is not fighting for pedro, so we know it's not just out of courtesy). 

Expand  

Willian wasn't here when Benitez was the manager. Hiddink didn't do much apart from just steadying the ship. Conte and Sarri played Willian initially but went with Pedro later on anyway. 

  On 12/07/2020 at 21:53, Puliiszola said:

Point is, people think it's simple, while it really is not. Those people are at those positions for a reason and they are doing a good job. 

Expand  

Lovely...then why do we even having discussions? Why do we even have forums? Let's just pack it in and be passive fans...

This 'reasoning' is such a convenient or lazy one to be thrown around when you happen to agree with a certain scenario. Because when you don't agree with it, this 'reasoning' won't even be mentioned at all. 

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

  On 12/07/2020 at 21:17, Jason said:

You're talking about someone who didn't want to sell Willian for 60-70 million...

Expand  

Well that was a rumoured fee plus there's the managers preference when it comes to selling him. We don't know the exact ins and outs

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

  On 12/07/2020 at 21:58, Jason said:

Willian wasn't here when Benitez was the manager. Hiddink didn't do much apart from just steadying the ship. Conte and Sarri played Willian initially but went with Pedro later on anyway. 

Lovely...then why do we even having discussions? Why do we even have forums? Let's just pack it in and be passive fans...

This 'reasoning' is such a convenient or lazy one to be thrown around when you happen to agree with a certain scenario. Because when you don't agree with it, this 'reasoning' won't even be mentioned at all. 

Expand  

He's not being passive tho, he's stating an opinion which, I for one, happen to agree with. It's simple to sit on here picking players we should sign and picking players we should sell for this amount or that. But the point he's making is the people placed in charge of it all are there for a reason. They know what they are doing whether we agree or not. We don't know what's going on behind closed doors. I for one would have flogged Willian off long ago especially after the rumoured Barca fees. But that may have been entirely agent fuelled. Maybe the fee wasnt as much, maybe the manager wanted to keep him, maybe Willian didn't want to leave London... We don't know

[Vesper 29,406]

  On 12/07/2020 at 17:59, MoroccanBlue said:

On top of the dead weight we hopefully sell 

Expand  

this is what we are looking at in terms of sales

 £500 to £550m or so (it dicey to say exactly) worth of players here en toto (pre-COVID valuations are over £600m when you count every single one listed) but obviously not all can be sold in one window

We need to sell

Álvaro Morata (Done)
Mario Pasalic (Done)
Andreas Christensen (he has GOT to go and be upgraded upon, I would prefer both he and Zouma be sold, but that is not happening in one window unless we get 2 incredible buy deals tossed into our laps, which is so unlikely) I just do not see what Lamps sees in our 4 main CB's, they (and Kepa) make my tummy churn every game. Even Alonso has not done that for ages.
Ross Barkley (if we can get say £30m, 35m for him, he will never be worth more (well COVID maybe lowers that a bit)plus Bayer failed to get CL, then a Barks sale plus Havertz buy is only around £40m or so net spend)
Tiemoué Bakayoko  
Emerson
Michy Batshuayi
Davide Zappacosta
Danny Drinkwater  
Jorginho  (Juve need to cough up serious cash or work a swap deal involving de Ligt for Jorgi plus cash or maybe Emerson, which is a little steep from our angle as I rate those 2 as being worth £85m-ish and not sure if de Ligt is worth that atm, that is a shedload of money, but I think I would pull the trigger, as then we only need the less costly 
Abdul Rahman Baba
Victor Moses    
Kenedy   
Marco van Ginkel
Juan Familia-Castillo (as Ajax did not exercise their option to buy, or keep him and see if he can ever be a decent LB)
Nathan   
Charly Musonda Jr.    
Danilo Pantic  
Matt Miazga    
Lewis Baker   
Jamal Blackman
Lucas Piazón 
Jake Clarke-Salter
Izzy Brown
Josh Grant    
Richard Nartey
Luke McCormick    
Jacob Maddox   

 

We could sell 

Kepa    (not likely, especially due to crazy wages for the next 5 years and his £72m transfer fee, ie. how much are we willing to lose of that overall)
Zouma (sorry, he is shit too)
Marcos Alonso (only if we buy two LB's which is not likely this window, I am oki with him as a the backup as he is curveball option in certain types of games)   
N'Golo Kanté    (not at all likely apparently)
Olivier Giroud    (I would keep him)

 

Leave on a free

Willian   (unless he renews for 2 years, which he still says no way to, the prick)
Pedro  

 

we need a GK (just buy some decent backup if we do not want to splurge for Kepa actual long term replacement atm). 1 CB for sure, would prefer 2 with both Zouma and Ac shown the door, a LB, and Havertz (on so many levels, ie blocking Victimpool and Manure and Shitty and Bayern and Real), plus he takes pressure off in so many areas, even winger, as we are down to only 2 true wingers, plus Ziyech who may be need at limes as an AMF)

it is just a matter of selling the insane amount of dregs we are carrying on the books

[Vesper 29,406]

  On 12/07/2020 at 08:41, killer1257 said:

Yeah but there is a difference between the skill level of Werner and Havertz. Just compare the technique of them both.

 

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

 

 

 

Expand  

If no COVID and Werner had 3 years, 4 years left on his contract, GOOD LUCK getting him for less than £80m or £90m

the bloke just turned 24 a few months ago, accounted for almost 50 goals in 3500 minutes (including 34 scored on his own)

is a German national team starter, and one of the fastest CF's on the planet

people are acting like he is some sort of consolation prize

SMDH

 

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

  On 12/07/2020 at 22:27, Vesper said:

this is what we are looking at in terms of sales

 £500 to £550m or so (it dicey to say exactly) worth of players here en toto (pre-COVID valuations are over £600m when you count every single one listed) but obviously not all can be sold in one window

We need to sell

Álvaro Morata (Done)
Mario Pasalic (Done)
Andreas Christensen (he has GOT to go and be upgraded upon, I would prefer both he and Zouma be sold, but that is not happening in one window unless we get 2 incredible buy deals tossed into our laps, which is so unlikely) I just do not see what Lamps sees in our 4 main CB's, they (and Kepa) make my tummy churn every game. Even Alonso has not done that for ages.
Ross Barkley (if we can get say £30m, 35m for him, he will never be worth more (well COVID maybe lowers that a bit)plus Bayer failed to get CL, then a Barks sale plus Havertz buy is only around £40m or so net spend)
Tiemoué Bakayoko  
Emerson
Michy Batshuayi
Davide Zappacosta
Danny Drinkwater  
Jorginho  (Juve need to cough up serious cash or work a swap deal involving de Ligt for Jorgi plus cash or maybe Emerson, which is a little steep from our angle as I rate those 2 as being worth £85m-ish and not sure if de Ligt is worth that atm, that is a shedload of money, but I think I would pull the trigger, as then we only need the less costly 
Abdul Rahman Baba
Victor Moses    
Kenedy   
Marco van Ginkel
Juan Familia-Castillo (as Ajax did not exercise their option to buy, or keep him and see if he can ever be a decent LB)
Nathan   
Charly Musonda Jr.    
Danilo Pantic  
Matt Miazga    
Lewis Baker   
Jamal Blackman
Lucas Piazón 
Jake Clarke-Salter
Izzy Brown
Josh Grant    
Richard Nartey
Luke McCormick    
Jacob Maddox   

 

We could sell 

Kepa    (not likely, especially due to crazy wages for the next 5 years and his £72m transfer fee, ie. how much are we willing to lose of that overall)
Zouma (sorry, he is shit too)
Marcos Alonso (only if we buy two LB's which is not likely this window, I am oki with him as a the backup as he is curveball option in certain types of games)   
N'Golo Kanté    (not at all likely apparently)
Olivier Giroud    (I would keep him)

 

Leave on a free

Willian   (unless he renews for 2 years, which he still says no way to, the prick)
Pedro  

 

we need a GK (just buy some decent backup if we do not want to splurge for Kepa actual long term replacement atm). 1 CB for sure, would prefer 2 with both Zouma and Ac shown the door, a LB, and Havertz (on so many levels, ie blocking Victimpool and Manure and Shitty and Bayern and Real), plus he takes pressure off in so many areas, even winger, as we are down to only 2 true wingers, plus Ziyech who may be need at limes as an AMF)

it is just a matter of selling the insane amount of dregs we are carrying on the books

Expand  

If we get 30 million for dross it's a massive win

[NikkiCFC 8,121]

  On 12/07/2020 at 22:27, Vesper said:

this is what we are looking at in terms of sales

 £500 to £550m or so (it dicey to say exactly) worth of players here en toto (pre-COVID valuations are over £600m when you count every single one listed) but obviously not all can be sold in one window

We need to sell

Álvaro Morata (Done)
Mario Pasalic (Done)
Andreas Christensen (he has GOT to go and be upgraded upon, I would prefer both he and Zouma be sold, but that is not happening in one window unless we get 2 incredible buy deals tossed into our laps, which is so unlikely) I just do not see what Lamps sees in our 4 main CB's, they (and Kepa) make my tummy churn every game. Even Alonso has not done that for ages.
Ross Barkley (if we can get say £30m, 35m for him, he will never be worth more (well COVID maybe lowers that a bit)plus Bayer failed to get CL, then a Barks sale plus Havertz buy is only around £40m or so net spend)
Tiemoué Bakayoko  
Emerson
Michy Batshuayi
Davide Zappacosta
Danny Drinkwater  
Jorginho  (Juve need to cough up serious cash or work a swap deal involving de Ligt for Jorgi plus cash or maybe Emerson, which is a little steep from our angle as I rate those 2 as being worth £85m-ish and not sure if de Ligt is worth that atm, that is a shedload of money, but I think I would pull the trigger, as then we only need the less costly 
Abdul Rahman Baba
Victor Moses    
Kenedy   
Marco van Ginkel
Juan Familia-Castillo (as Ajax did not exercise their option to buy, or keep him and see if he can ever be a decent LB)
Nathan   
Charly Musonda Jr.    
Danilo Pantic  
Matt Miazga    
Lewis Baker   
Jamal Blackman
Lucas Piazón 
Jake Clarke-Salter
Izzy Brown
Josh Grant    
Richard Nartey
Luke McCormick    
Jacob Maddox   

 

We could sell 

Kepa    (not likely, especially due to crazy wages for the next 5 years and his £72m transfer fee, ie. how much are we willing to lose of that overall)
Zouma (sorry, he is shit too)
Marcos Alonso (only if we buy two LB's which is not likely this window, I am oki with him as a the backup as he is curveball option in certain types of games)   
N'Golo Kanté    (not at all likely apparently)
Olivier Giroud    (I would keep him)

 

Leave on a free

Willian   (unless he renews for 2 years, which he still says no way to, the prick)
Pedro  

 

we need a GK (just buy some decent backup if we do not want to splurge for Kepa actual long term replacement atm). 1 CB for sure, would prefer 2 with both Zouma and Ac shown the door, a LB, and Havertz (on so many levels, ie blocking Victimpool and Manure and Shitty and Bayern and Real), plus he takes pressure off in so many areas, even winger, as we are down to only 2 true wingers, plus Ziyech who may be need at limes as an AMF)

it is just a matter of selling the insane amount of dregs we are carrying on the books

Expand  

Nathan is also gone. 3m.

And Pantic.

 

[Vesper 29,406]

  On 12/07/2020 at 22:37, ulsterchelsea said:

If we get 30 million for dross it's a massive win

Expand  

which dross?

we have dross IN SPADES!!

(I do not know whether to laugh or cry, but I think I chose to sob like a baby)

it is insane how many shit (and many were very expensive) players we have on the books

[Vesper 29,406]

  On 12/07/2020 at 20:08, ulsterchelsea said:

?? How would we know that she had in the past? Why is that even a question? She seems to constantly get us good deals. Not sure what you mean

Expand  

this is (until recently) a big myth, that I dealt with so many times I have lost count, including MASSIVE posts that dealt with dozens of players

but we are where we are now

mind you, I can go ahead and post another monster post detailing all this yet again, but would really rather not, as it gets me so argy bargy over it all (hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds shit away at the end of the day (not all on her, but a chunk of it for sure) between her refusing sales, bad board/scouts buys, absolute shit contractual management, and bollocksed up buys that spiralled into panic buys to replace the lost sheep that would not come into the Blue pasture)