Mikel John Obi

[BlueLyon 9,359]

I've had these sort of comments thrown at me ever since i joined this forum regarding Mikel because i have never rated the guy, at that point there were hardly any knockers - i was very much in the minority. There were some arrogant remarks like 'you don't know nothing about football if you criticize Mikel'!! I pointed out his flaws long ago (other members are are now posting similar comments) with different members some of which are changing their tune about him now (fair play too) I've been waiting for Mikel to prove me wrong but he always flatters to deceive - if we forget his flaws or the excuses for one second and he actually has consistency in his game then detractors like me will get off his back. I rarely post, so other members have taken up the baton but i did say at the start of this season that if Mikel plays regularly then we will have no chance of winning the title.................

I do agree though he is not the only one that is inconsistent, the whole team are riddled with it but lets not fool our self's into thinking that Mikel is the only one to get stick, Torres gets most of it, Ivanovich is now getting his fair share, Bertrand is on the hit-list too - if players are performing then on the whole they won't get sledged.

If he gets to 29 and is performing consistently for this club then i will eat a large slice of humble pie, if not will you do the same?

I will judge Mikel once we will have complete team. Right now we are fucked up totaly. Bad coach, bad results, bad tactics, bad formations leads to players underperforming.

When we were complete team (under Ancelotti, 4:3:3), Mikel was beast. Now we lack striker, we lack DLP, we lack coach. Its not Mikels fault for all that.

[The only place to be 11,313]

So at one point you complain about how team plays and on other you dont want any new players?

If you think that Lukaku and Kdb and Chalobah would put us above Manchester clubs in next two years, you wont see it. They are our future but we need top players NOW. Or you can watch the same football we play this season next three seasons until Lukaku, Kdb and Chalobah become class. And by your posts you want this bad play stop as much as I do, but its utophia to thinktl that only loanees will change us into title contenders.

United aren't that much better than us and yes I absolutely think we could mount a serious title challenge with the likes of Lukaku, KDB and Chalobah alongside our current squad and a couple of signings. What I don't do is throw 15 names at the screen as a solution.

We need players. Top players and squad/youth players. Lukaku would be perfect replacement for Torres, Chalobah for Essien and Kdb for Marin. We need top players now to get some chance of playing better football next year. Im not saying we should buy top and sell our youth players. We should buy two players who can fit right into starting team and improve us NOW. Kdb and Lukaku will start as rotation options and if they prove they will be starters. Ultimately its all up to coach.

I don't disagree.

I will judge Mikel once we will have complete team. Right now we are fucked up totaly. Bad coach, bad results, bad tactics, bad formations leads to players underperforming.

When we were complete team (under Ancelotti, 4:3:3), Mikel was beast. Now we lack striker, we lack DLP, we lack coach. Its not Mikels fault for all that.

He was never a beast. What you're saying is that Mikel needs everyone around him to be at the top of their game to make him look good - we have a word for that: PASSENGER.

I've said this for so long - he doesn't make the player next to him better. He's not a leader, he's not going to put the team on his back and we don't need that type of player in the squad.

I asked you this earlier but now I'm going to ask you again.

When Mikel is in the wall for the free-kick yesterday, does his head go towards the ball or does he turn it away? Does he stick his head in the way of the ball? YES OR NO?

[EBH 283]

He is a water carrier, an anchor man. A type of player that is being phased out of world football.

This is not true. Everybody play 3 midfielders.

Look, if I have a triangle in midfield – Claude Makelele behind and two others just in front – I will always have an advantage against a pure 4-4-2 where the central midfielders are side by side. That’s because I will always have an extra man. It starts with Makelele, who is between the lines. If nobody comes to him he can see the whole pitch and has time. If he gets closed down it means one of the two other central midfielders is open. If they are closed down and the other team’s wingers come inside to help, it means there is space now for us on the flank, either for our own wingers or for our full-backs. There is nothing a pure 4-4-2 can do to stop things’.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

United aren't that much better than us and yes I absolutely think we could mount a serious title challenge with the likes of Lukaku, KDB and Chalobah alongside our current squad and a couple of signings. What I don't do is throw 15 names at the screen as a solution.

He was never a beast. What you're saying is that Mikel needs everyone around him to be at the top of their game to make him look good - we have a word for that: PASSENGER.

I've said this for so long - he doesn't make the player next to him better. He's not a leader, he's not going to put the team on his back and we don't need that type of player in the squad.

I asked you this earlier but now I'm going to ask you again.

When Mikel is in the wall for the free-kick yesterday, does his head go towards the ball or does he turn it away? Does he stick his head in the way of the ball? YES OR NO?

A couple of sigings? So you would buy few players like I said we need, yet you are telling me I would buy whole world and this aint fifa, but then you say you would buy couple of signings?

Man get some shit up together. If I mention 20 players we should try to buy, it doesnt mean we should buy all!! If I throw Modric, Moutinho, Strootman etc we should buy ONE of them, not all. If I mention 10 strkers we should buy ONE of the 10. You keep saying that Mikel is bad, that Luiz is bad, that Lamps is bad often, that Cole isnt that anymore,...and we should look for new players to replace them.

The biggest number of signings i mentioned we should get in summer is 3. Striker, DLP and winger/CB/DM. In reality we only need two. Striker and DLP.

You ask me if Mikel went for ball? No he didnt. Besides the ball was closer to Torres anyway.

Now I ask you something: How is buying Moutinho and Cavani (for example) whole world. How can you say that this is not game to me and charge me that I would buy whole world if I could (but I only want 2!!! new players), while you are saying we should buy Dm to replace Mikel, Cb to replace Luiz, isco to add depth, winger to add width, backup striker, Luke Shaw etc.

The one thing we are different is that if I had chance to buy players for chelsea I woul buy two world class players and give squad role to our youth players to add depth, while you would buy 5 cheaper players and put all the pressure on our loanees and those cheper players.

Now I wont even discuss this anymore. Lets Chelsea build the team, you will see Mikel stay in first squad until Chalobah will replace him in couple years. Until then Mikel will play good enough. He was great in CL final and start in this season until Rdm was sacked, stop fucking saying anything about his mentality, if he needs anything its motivation of the coach and we all know that Rafa is blind on that area.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You ask me if Mikel went for ball? No he didnt.

Thank you.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Thank you.

And that's it in a nutshell - we don't have players willing to put themselves on the line...

Why?

Because no fear of consequence, new manager every 6 months, players still get picked and paid - no issue.

We need a no-nonsense type of Manager, who demands the full from every player - fail to deliver = goodbye...

To be fair I admire SAF on this - the players don't give him shit and if they do, they are soon gone...

Just wished we had that fighting spirit back - would have loved to have seen Ballack bossing midfield today and Makalele breaking up play.

Me - if I was in charge, start with the new guys - bring them back from their millions of loans and give them all a run of games - experience? Not ready? Er... They are ready and will do more in 90 minutes than our so called regulars....

[Peace. 4,352]

He had a bad game today but so did the whole team. The way he played against United coming on and dominating the game showed how good he really is. Just an off day today. When we lose the amount of abuse Mikel gets is ridiculous. Some of it I think ok maybe he didn't do this that and this but there's some of it that isn't even his fault. Hes obviously the scapegoat of the team.

On the other hand, one could also say that the way he played against Bucarest and Southampton showed how not that good he is. So, which one example to choose, in order to show his true quality, yours or mine ? I mean, you, and few other people, seem to imply that he wasn't good today because the whole team wasn't — or at least that these two facts have a correlation. Though, against Manchester United, he was good, and the whole team was also very good. So, it works both ways...

And to respond to Choulo : Mate, when you say that during 7-8 years, every manager picked him. Though I can also mention the fact that Kalou stayed here for six years, and that more or less all the managers selected him. I am not comparing them by any mean, huh ! I am just comparing the situations. There's also the Ferreira case : he is around since 2004 and played over 207 games here, even though he has never been a world beater. There's also the case of Wes Brown and O'Shea. And many other examples. That's not because you hang around a long time that it makes you automatically a very good player.

[The Mak 4,459]

People flock to this thread the one game in 20 that Mikel plays badly in. It's quiet the rest of the time.

One bad game against Southampton and one good game against United...so what does that make his other 18 games? Average? Above average? Below? I don't want players who are average, most of the time, starting for Chelsea.

[The only place to be 11,313]

On the other hand, one could also say that the way he played against Bucarest and Southampton showed how not that good he is. So, which one example to choose, in order to show his true quality, yours or mine ? I mean, you, and few other people, seem to imply that he wasn't good today because the whole team wasn't — or at least that these two facts have a correlation. Though, against Manchester United, he was good, and the whole team was also very good. So, it works both ways...

And to respond to Choulo : Mate, when you say that during 7-8 years, every manager picked him. Though I can also mention the fact that Kalou stayed here for six years, and that more or less all the managers selected him. I am not comparing them by any mean, huh ! I am just comparing the situations. There's also the Ferreira case : he is around since 2004 and played over 207 games here, even though he has never been a world beater. There's also the case of Wes Brown and O'Shea. And many other examples. That's not because you hang around a long time that it makes you automatically a very good player.

John O'Shea was the player I was thinking about - 393 appearances for United.

I think their problem was they sold him before he was 29 - that's the magic age, as evidenced by his world class performances since leaving.

[Peace. 4,352]

My view on Mikel.

Reading his thread is truly interesting. Because you know, ever since I am on this forum, I've never seen a player who divides us fans as Mikel does. And it's not like the majority was for or against him, it seems that it's fifty-fifty. With him, it's either black or white : for people he shit or great ; either overrated or underrated.

To my eyes, Mikel is neither the great player depicted by some ; nor the poor player described by others. He is a good player, in my mind, above average. He is good at what he does. The problem might be that we are currently not asking him the good things. He cannot perform while playing in the double-pivot — that's what I believe. He doesn't have the profile. He is neither the kind of player who will work his ass off to dispossess the opponent ; he doesn't have the mobility and the hunger required. Nor he is the kind of player to make the game. Therefore, no wonders if he doesn't seem that good.

Nah, he is suited to a 4-3-3 formation, where he will sit deep alone in front of the defense the defense. And not all 4-3-3 — it's only when the team puts the emphasis on the defensive solidity. Indeed, he wasn't good under André Villas-Boas, the high pace and the fancy playing style didn't suit him. It comes with no surprise that when we saw the best out of him was when we were playing the "catenaccio" : under Ancelotti and Di Matteo (when he was the care-taker). I would even go as far as saying that the best Mikel we have seen was the one playing under Ancelotti. When the defense is well constructed and organised, when the back four sits deep — that's when he is at his best. I think he would be very good in Serie A.

Now, it seems that when the whole team is good, he is good ; and when the whole team isn't, he is neither. He just seems to be that kind of player who performs according to his surroundings. He won't be the guy to take us to another level, to make the difference. All this years, he was pretty fine. And we never feel the need to buy someone else, because precisely he was fine. But that was when we had great players, more or less in their primes, around him (Lampard, Essien, Ballack, Terry, ...).

Now the situation has changed. We don't have anymore world-class players in defense and midfield (and arguably in the team, but that's another debate). The defense is shaky and the central-midfield cannot keep the ball for their lives. As a matter of fact, Mikel has played more bad games this season than in the previous ones.

That's why I believe that we should look for someone to compete with him in this position ; whether we buy someone or promote one of our youngsters. Because, as a team claiming to be a major force in Europe, we need players good enough to back up our claims. The central midfield is, at the moment, toothless both in defense and attack. We need someone to boss the midfield ; to make this area his own. We need a player who will grab the bull by the horns. Pretty much like Makélélé and Essien were doing. Unfortunately, this player isn't Mikel. It doesn't seem that he has the will, the passion, the hunger. Into my eyes, he is too passive to step up and prove he is that player. We also need to look for someone else, to provide us a diversity in our tactical options — because that's clear, Mikel cannot play into a 4-2-3-1 and it remains to be seen that he's the best option for an attacking 4-3-3.

I am not saying that he is a poor footballer, nor that we lose because of him — don't get me wrong. He is above average, but a club like us — especially considering the state we're in — seeks more than that, more than a player who's "okay", more than a player who doesn't provide very good performances on a regular basis, more than a player who's good when others are good and bad when others are bad.

The bottom line is that our midfield is lacklustre, passive and apathetic — we need someone who will instill temper and dynamism in it !

[The Mak 4,459]

That's why I believe that we should look for someone to compete with him in this position ; whether we buy someone or promote one of our youngsters. Because, as a team claiming to be a major force in Europe, we need players good enough to back up our claims. The central midfield is, at the moment, toothless both in defense and attack. We need someone to boss the midfield ; to make this area his own. We need a player who will grab the bull by the horns. Pretty much like Makélélé and Essien were doing. Unfortunately, this player isn't Mikel. It doesn't seem that he has the will, the passion, the hunger. Into my eyes, he is to passive to step up and prove he is that player. We also need to look for someone else, to provide us a diversity in our tactical options — because that's clear, Mikel cannot play into a 4-2-3-1 and it remains to be seen that he's the best option for an attacking 4-3-3.

I am not saying that he is a poor footballer, nor that we lose because of him — don't get me wrong. He is above average, but a club like us — especially considering the state we're in — seeks more than that, more than a player who's "okay", more than a player who doesn't provide very good performances on a regular basis, more than a player who's good when others are good and bad when others are bad.

The bottom line is that our midfield is lacklustre, passive and apathetic — we need someone who will instill temper and dynamism in it !

Agree with everything, especially this!

[Santiago. 1,500]

To be fair I admire SAF on this - the players don't give him shit and if they do, they are soon gone...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And to respond to Choulo : Mate, when you say that during 7-8 years, every manager picked him. Though I can also mention the fact that Kalou stayed here for six years, and that more or less all the managers selected him. I am not comparing them by any mean, huh ! I am just comparing the situations. There's also the Ferreira case : he is around since 2004 and played over 207 games here, even though he has never been a world beater. There's also the case of Wes Brown and O'Shea. And many other examples. That's not because you hang around a long time that it makes you automatically a very good player.

This neither the time nor the place to discuss this, but I always thought Kalou was a good squad player, which is exactly what he was for us all those years. Ferreira has become an important figure at the club, but when was the last season he played more than 5 matches? I'm not talking about duration at the club but about being a regular player at the top level.

Bottom line is, Mikel has been a regular starter for one of the best of the most successful teams in Europe in the last 4-5 seasons under some of the best managers in the world. If he was as bad as some make him out to be then: 1) How come we have been so successful with him regularly in our lineup? 2) And why was he never replaced when we all know we had the financial power to go for almost any player in the world?

I'm just saying that the likes of Mourinho, Carlo, Hiddink..etc must have seen something in his game that his critics are missing.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And I never said you said I said...(?)

Haha, regardless a lot needs to changed for Mikel to succeed, and is he the player we want build everything around?

Can't agree with you there, mate. I think Mikel is better suited for the 4-3-3 but that does not mean he can't play in the current set up. The proof? Our best performances this season when we've dominated teams like Arsenal, Tottenham, Utd..etc and played truly great football was with Mikel playing in the pivot. When he has been played along side Ramires, with Mata and Hazard ahead of them, we've looked like we could beat anyone.

[Leif 6,006]

I just miss Makelele so much ._.

[The only place to be 11,313]

This neither the time nor the place to discuss this, but I always thought Kalou was a good squad player, which is exactly what he was for us all those years. Ferreira has become an important figure at the club, but when was the last season he played more than 5 matches? I'm not talking about duration at the club but about being a regular player at the top level.

Bottom line is, Mikel has been a regular starter for one of the best of the most successful teams in Europe in the last 4-5 seasons under some of the best managers in the world. If he was as bad as some make him out to be then: 1) How come we have been so successful with him regularly in our lineup? 2) And why was he never replaced when we all know we had the financial power to go for almost any player in the world?

I'm just saying that the likes of Mourinho, Carlo, Hiddink..etc must have seen something in his game that his critics are missing.

Yesterday's free kick - does he try to put his head in the way?

[Leif 6,006]

Us posters who don't like Mikel (as a player, not a person) expect this level from him. You see the slide tackles in this video? This is what we want. We don't care if it's in a 4-3-3 or partnered with someone in a 4-2-3-1. It doesn't matter. A top quality midfielder is versatile. Busquets is just as good in Spain's 4-2-3-1 as he is in Barcelona's 4-3-3. The formation just can't be an excuse. Of course it may seem unfair to be saying "Hi Mikel, please play more like our best ever defensive midfielder", but he's only half the player I see in this video. I expect successors to at least challenge someone's title of "Best ever in their position" at a club!

The slide tackles, positioning, interceptions etc. in this video below are orgasmic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63WojjZy7QE

Now, here's a point:- If we were to want to replace Mikel, who with? I want a Makelele type player again. Who's the closest player to Makelele these days who's actually a realistic target? I've heard people say Sven Bender (I don't see it), Capoue (I don't see it) and Nainggolan (I don't see it).

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Yesterday's free kick - does he try to put his head in the way?

Dunno, I didn't watch the match. But I'm not at all surprised that your whole argument is based on a single incident..