closed Man Utd 4-0 Chelsea

[Vesper 30,187]

28 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

The criticism for Tammy is truly unjustified. He puts that chance away people's opinion would completely shift. Did well to lead the line and his pressing was superb. 

only ones I am going to fully slag are Zouma and Azpi

Pedro had a stinker as well, IMHO (not for lack of effort)

AC was decent too

he just had so little help

we were POOR with turnovers as well

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

3 minutes ago, Robchels said:

i think it’s the right message to the young players and encouragement, but he likely knows better. Still weird why make a inexperienced lineup even greener with Tammy and mount.. and let me say I do see some pretty impressive things in mount.

But it ultimately wasn't inexperience that lost us the game.

We saw vital mistakes from our veterans in Pedro and Azilicueta, along with Zouma who is an established professional. All three were at fault for our goals through errors you'd expect from inexperience players. 

Lampard has a clear vision on how he wants us to play, and Mount+Tammy are vital in it. Make no mistake, we were in absolute control before Zouma shot us in the foot. Tammy puts that chance away, it would've been a different game. 

[Atomiswave 6,117]

Just now, Vesper said:

only ones I am going to fully slag are Zouma and Azpi

Pedro had a stinker as well, IMHO (not for lack of effort)

AC was decent too

he just had so little help

we were POOR with turnovers as well

Pedro ran his ass off but he is getting older and older, he has been a very good player for us imo. Zouma was Zouma, we ll knew it. AC I like much much better, he can game with Rudi. Azpi gotten slower but he has heart, wouldnt mind a better FB though.

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

These two are the sides that are going to miss top four. City and Liverpool are nailed on to make it, Spurs are good enough to make it and once Arsenal's pacey, deadly front three click they'll have no problems putting small teams to bed. 

I saw a lot of positives today to be excited about what future holds for us in terms of playing style. There is a Chelsea through and through on the bench with a quality staff around him that went to Old Trafford at their debut and played on the front foot with two youngsters up front that a few months ago were playing Championship football and two very young centre backs. And no Kante in the starting line up. 

United played Mourinho football w/o Mourinho. They are no better than last season, we'll see this the next quality team they will meet. 

Chelsea hit the post twice and created lots of opportunities to score. Fortunately this is a transitional season with a clever manager in charge that will trim the squad down at the end of the season. Don't think Zouma is good enough no matter how matches he is given, simply a rigid, not modern, poor on the ball defender, Everton level. Really believe he should be 4th choice, Tomori is a better player all around at least in my view. Nor is Barkley and Pedro. Abraham, I don't know yet, time will tell, won't write him off just yet. Also believe this should be Azpilicueta's last season as a starter. 

We looked good for Lamps' first match, with this setup. We'll only get better as soon as Hudson-Odoi, Rudiger, Pulisic, Kante, Willian, Loftus-Cheek get introduced back into the team. Happy we've moved on from Alonso at left back, Emerson looks good and I like the way Lampard gives his full backs freedom to bomb forward. Would love to see the duo of Emerson and Reece James play at some point in the season. 

[Atomiswave 6,117]

1 minute ago, MoroccanBlue said:

But it ultimately wasn't inexperience that lost us the game.

We saw vital mistakes from our veterans in Pedro and Azilicueta, along with Zouma who is an established professional. All three were at fault for our goals through errors you'd expect from inexperience players. 

Lampard has a clear vision on how he wants us to play, and Mount+Tammy are vital in it. Make no mistake, we were in absolute control before Zouma shot us in the foot. Tammy puts that chance away, it would've been a different game. 

The team screams for help, even under Sarii. We could have gotten Piatek but opted for an old washed up Higs, who decided that? Surely the Club have the brains to forsee Higs would be eaten up in epl? Ars were horrible today, but thanks to their strikers they win instead of losing.

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 minute ago, MoroccanBlue said:

But it ultimately wasn't inexperience that lost us the game.

We saw vital mistakes from our veterans in Pedro and Azilicueta, along with Zouma who is an established professional. All three were at fault for our goals through errors you'd expect from inexperience players. 

Lampard has a clear vision on how he wants us to play, and Mount+Tammy are vital in it. Make no mistake, we were in absolute control before Zouma shot us in the foot. Tammy puts that chance away, it would've been a different game. 

disagree. The lack of robustness in the team is a classic reflection of inexperience.

Think folks here focus way too much on usual match mistakes that happen all the time. Yes, zouma one was a real bad mistake, but the others were just game circumstances and result from high defense line and in line.

football is a team sport and players get more exposed when having to cover for players who are not pulling their weight. When we pretty much play down a men from the get go with Tammy, that will affect all areas of the pitch,  not only the attack.

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

4 minutes ago, Robchels said:

disagree. The lack of robustness in the team is a classic reflection of inexperience.

Think folks here focus way too much on usual match mistakes that happen all the time. Yes, zouma one was a real bad mistake, but the others were just game circumstances and result from high defense line and in line.

football is a team sport and players get more exposed when having to cover for players who are not pulling their weight. When we pretty much play down a men from the get go with Tammy, that will affect all areas of the pitch,  not only the attack.

Tammy was at fault for Pedro holding on to the ball too long that led to the counter? I remember seeing Jorginho and Mount in space. 

Tammy was at fault for Zouma making a challenge you'd expect a Sunday league player to make? 

Tammy was at fault for Dave ball watching and losing his runner?

 

These are individual mistakes we are seeing mate. This is not a collective misfortune, when in fact we were in total control before the initial individual mistake. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

Just now, MoroccanBlue said:

Tammy was at fault for Pedro holding on to the ball too long that led to the counter? I remember seeing Jorginho and Mount in space. 

Tammy was at fault for Zouma making a challenge you'd expect a Sunday league player to make? 

Tammy was at fault for Dave ball watching and losing his runner?

 

These are individual mistakes we are seeing mate. Has nothing to do with a misfortune as a result from working as a collective, when in fact we were in total control before the initial individual mistake. 

Sorry I think Tammy is an awful awful footballer at this time. He is completely lost. Does not even participate enough of the game.

i truly hope he improves, but he’s unplayable right now. Perhaps can help against the smaller sides, but this was no game for him.

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

Just now, Robchels said:

Sorry I think Tammy is an awful awful footballer at this time. He is completely lost. Does not even participate enough of the game.

i truly hope he improves, but he’s unplayable right now. Perhaps can help against the smaller sides, but this was no game for him.

I like from what I saw and I am keeping this in mind with what we currently have. Tammy looks essential for Lampard's football. I'd keep him as a starter and let's see how he fairs after a run of games. 

[BXL70 396]

Sarri out

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

This is by far the worst way of losing. Having all the possession, all the chances, hitting the woodwork and still 0-4 at the end. Feeling really sick right now. But that was one of the 2 scenarios we all predicted. But what I was most disappointed with was not only the lack of quality also from the more experienced players but how naively we left spaces open in midfield. We knew before their technically limited players can only play well when afforded space. Still we committed way too much going forward, no security and stupid turnovers. This will be a long season till we really start gelling. And off to the worst possible start

[robsblubot 3,595]

12 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I like from what I saw and I am keeping this in mind with what we currently have. Tammy looks essential for Lampard's football. I'd keep him as a starter and let's see how he fairs after a run of games. 

I truly hope that you are right and that I’m wrong. That all he needs is a good run of games to improve, but I’m just calling the way I see it... his movement, turns, work rate, look all off to me.

[Vesper 30,187]

1 minute ago, Atomiswave said:

The team screams for help, even under Sarii. We could have gotten Piatek but opted for an old washed up Higs, who decided that? Surely the Club have the brains to forsee Higs would be eaten up in epl? Ars were horrible today, but thanks to their strikers they win instead of losing.

it is all on the board

I have been banging that drum since I joined, and have laid it out in painstaking detail

if little me knew the bans were coming (as evidenced by a shedload of my posts well before they officially got handed down)

surely they must have known

yet refused to act

especially in January

simply buying Ake (he is not my preferred CB for our lead but it was simple to do with our buyback clause AND is huge upgrade over Zouma, whose sale to Everton would have basically covered the ENTIRE cost) and Piatek (fuck Higs) and then lock down a deal with Lille for buy and loanback for Pepe for the last 6 months,which they (Lille) would have done for £45m to £55m at that time) AND he was practically begging to come here, look at the interviews, 

That would have SO helped us out this season

all that would have only cost us around a net £60-70m or so (and actually less as we could have then sold Bats for £30m or so, so call it £30-40m or so)

ffs

it isnt rocket fucking science here

so pissed off at the utter lack of future-forward football thinking

[Laylabelle 9,535]

9 minutes ago, Vesper said:

it is all on the board

I have been banging that drum since I joined, and have laid it out in painstaking detail

if little me knew the bans were coming (as evidenced by a shedload of my posts well before they officially got handed down)

surely they must have known

yet refused to act

especially in January

simply buying Ake (he is not my preferred CB for our lead but it was simple to do with our buyback clause AND is huge upgrade over Zouma, whose sale to Everton would have basically covered the ENTIRE cost) and Piatek (fuck Higs) and then lock down a deal with Lille for buy and loanback for Pepe for the last 6 months,which they (Lille) would have done for £45m to £55m at that time) AND he was practically begging to come here, look at the interviews, 

That would have SO helped us out this season

all that would have only cost us around a net £60-70m or so (and actually less as we could have then sold Bats for £30m or so, so call it £30-40m or so)

ffs

it isnt rocket fucking science here

so pissed off at the utter lack of future-forward football thinking

Maybe they naively thought we've got away with it once we would again. Still annoys we're in this sodding mess. 

The board don't seem to act the way they should. Just piss around with deals until they fall through 

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

1 hour ago, communicate said:

I think this first game somewhat mimic our pre season. We can create chances and our pressing is better but we need better defensive organization otherwise we will suffer big time. Our pressing remind me of klopp early time. 

Offensively, we will create chances but we simply have no goal scorer. 

I always enjoy your posts and we both seem to see football in the same way, especially from the tactical point of view. It looks to me Lamps is clever enough to have understood football has moved on from Mourinho football to a very fast, high pressing one. Can't say 'Klopp-esque' because we've seen this football before, but surely Klopp is now a trending manager with an attractive style of play, different than Guardiola, direct and very attacking. Maybe he's not won that much but he put Liverpool back on the map and look at the headlines now, they are on everybody's lips when it comes to PL and CL favourites to win it at the end of the season. Just a couple of years after they were struggling to even make it to CL football. 

At half time I said to myself "We hit the post twice and played United off the park, at Old Trafford, all this with Pedro, Barkley, two Academy graduates up front and two young centre backs and a poor Right back, imagine what Lampard can do with better players". He will do better with time and if these are shades of an early Klopp as you say then I am ready to give him time if it means he makes us one of the most feared clubs in Europe. 

[Jase 43,479]

@Atomiswave @Vesper How many times are we going to see you two moan about the poor transfers made, board's bad decisions, transfer ban etc? Like Lampard alluded to, it is what it is. Can only work with what we have and no point focusing on what can't be changed.

[Fulham Broadway 17,317]

They were their for the taking in the first half, sitting back and we were sharper. We need to learn from these mistakes and quickly. Some of the football was slick, but we always looked like we’d be vulnerable on the counter. Looking at the players we’re missing and what they’ll add when fit gives me some hope. 

Luiz stop gloating !!!

[Vesper 30,187]

the teams we really need to focus on (in terms of point watching) atm are

Wolves

Everton

Leicester

West Ham

Watford (they started off HORRIDLY, but should rebound)

I get the feeling that it is going to be us and those 5 (unless somehow Burnley and/or Bournemouth also pop up)

battling for 6th and 7th place (and thus the last 2 Europe places)

as it stands

we are in bloody 19th place, one goal off the bottom (West ham got slammed 5 nil)

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

About 20 minutes into the game, I was loving it. I loved the control. I loved the intensity. I loved the build up and quick transition. I loved the collective pressing. I loved how threatening we were and how well we worked to get the ball back. All of this on display at Old Trafford, a ground we haven't won at in more than half a decade. 

And yet, the truly sad thing is, I kept thinking to myself, 'I wonder how long we'll keep this up?'. It's been two years since we saw this level of intensity/control and kept it up for the entire 90. Will it be a worldie of a goal we concede? Will it be an individual error? Then after I saw that misplaced pass from Zouma, that's when I knew. We started seeing more individual errors after that, and when Pedro, (in Pedro fashion), kept a hold of the ball for too long and lost it in a dangerous area, our momentum died. 

It pisses me off how I can't enjoy a game anymore where I can safely think our players will give it their best the entire 90. The amount of individual errors we see is staggering for a top 6 side. 

[Vesper 30,187]

4 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

Maybe they naively thought we've got away with it once we would again. Still annoys we're in this sodding mess. 

The board don't seem to act the way they should. Just piss around with deals until they fall through 

I do not see how they possibly could have thought we would skate

I read the documents (the public ones)

we flat out broke the rules, brazenly

we were so lucky to not be considered repeat offenders

if I had done similar malfeasance in my financial world, I would be prison-bound, not just sacked and banned from trading for a year