Super Frank Thread

[Jase 43,479]

33 minutes ago, Azul said:

What annoys me the most is that the league is there for the taking with Liverpools injury problems. 

I had high hopes for the season, but with Lampard as our manager we will definitely not challenge for the title. I truly believe that we might even struggle to get top four, which is unacceptable to be honest. 

What should be done? Do you want Lampard to be sacked if he drops more than 12 points in the next 8 games? Or do you accept the fact that we will struggle this season with him as a manager and we might not even get CL football next season?

I'm very conflicted about this, but out of respect of what he has done for CFC, I say to give him to season to prove himself. If however at some point it looks hard for us to make top four, then he must be sacked though. The talent this team has deserves CL football next season.

If we continue to take one step forward and two steps backward in the next 1-2 months, think Roman and the board will start asking questions.

[Azul 1,615]

3 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

I feel we will give him the season. But just this season. 

Irrespective of where we finish the season, if we don't get 80 points, he should get the sack. No matter if he gets top 4 with 72-75 points. 

I fully agree with you to an extent. If there ever is a point where we look like we're not going to get top four then we have to sack Lampard. Top four is crucial this season.

 

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

If we continue to take one step forward and two steps backward in the next 1-2 months, think Roman and the board will start asking questions.

Rightfully so, getting CL football next season is vital for the development of these new players. If Lampard looks like he's not even going to make that then he needs to be sacked regardless of his legendary status.

[Puliiszola 519]

18 minutes ago, Azul said:

I fully agree with you to an extent. If there ever is a point where we look like we're not going to get top four then we have to sack Lampard. Top four is crucial this season.

 

Rightfully so, getting CL football next season is vital for the development of these new players. If Lampard looks like he's not even going to make that then he needs to be sacked regardless of his legendary status.

Point with top 4 being a barometer of success is that, we basically accept mediocrity. Even right now, with a bad start to the season, we are still 6th. Because the league as a whole is shit. No consistency whatsoever. 

That's the only reason, I would rather have a definitive aim in mind. 80 points for me. If we can't get 80 points, it's a failed season, irrespective of where we end up, because the position will be determined how the rest of the teams play. We need to look at ourselves. For me, it's 80 points or sack.

[Milan 17,853]

25 minutes ago, Azul said:

I fully agree with you to an extent. If there ever is a point where we look like we're not going to get top four then we have to sack Lampard. Top four is crucial this season.

 

Rightfully so, getting CL football next season is vital for the development of these new players. If Lampard looks like he's not even going to make that then he needs to be sacked regardless of his legendary status.

He is not a legendary coach. His legendary status from his playing days should not have anything to do with him as a manager. It is a conflicting feeling, not one single about that, but this season he should be treated as any other manager we have had under Roman.

[Azul 1,615]

2 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Point with top 4 being a barometer of success is that, we basically accept mediocrity. Even right now, with a bad start to the season, we are still 6th. Because the league as a whole is shit. No consistency whatsoever. 

That's the only reason, I would rather have a definitive aim in mind. 80 points for me. If we can't get 80 points, it's a failed season, irrespective of where we end up, because the position will be determined how the rest of the teams play. We need to look at ourselves. For me, it's 80 points or sack.

I agree, regardless of him getting top four with me it's more about seeing an improvement tactical and organizational wise. If I don't see that then I'm fine with him getting top four this season and then get replaced by someone like Nagelsmann. 

However if he even struggles and it gets to the point to where it looks like we can't even get top four then he has to be sacked on the spot to salvage our season. It's just sad to see no improvement though, we really could've won the title this year with another manager. Van Dijk is out, City is not a force anymore because teams know how to play against Guardiola now. This should've been our moment to step in and challenge for the title, but the way things are looking we'll battle for top 4, and that's on Lampard.

[killer1257 3,282]

"They have conceded just 379 shots - only Manchester City have faced fewer - and their expected goals against is just 44.7, over 18 goals fewer than they have actually conceded. That is by far the largest difference between expected goals conceded and actual goals conceded in the Premier League".

 

This shows to me that our defensive structure is not that bad. We just have the worst GK and we make some stupid mistakes like Havertz and Zouma did, but all the teams do those stupid mistakes. Liverpool do them, Man City do them and United also fail to stop doing stupid mistakes.

With Mendy and Silva, we will improve.

 

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[Tomo 21,733]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

But Palace have never really been a problem for us over the years, even with the odd hiccup against them like in 2016/17. And given how they set up few weeks ago, Palace weren't really the greatest of tests for Silva and Zouma.

As it stands, yes but they still need to be tested as a pair against better opponents than Crystal Palace.

 

4 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

It was a good defensive performance, because CP were way too passive. They did not attack us, they were happy to simply counter, which we snuffed out.

Or maybe, just maybe, Palace "didn't attack" because we didn't let them?

I mean think about this Palace recently went to Old Trafford scored 3 and could have scored 8, they saw us ship three to West Brom the previous week, their strength on the counter is also a weakness for us, you really think they would look at those things combined and think "nah ain't going to bother attacking today what's the point"?

Not to mention they've won more big games away to the big six in recent years than the big six sides themselves, we limited a very dangerous and pacey counter attacking side to absolute scraps.

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Or maybe, just maybe, Palace "didn't attack" because we didn't let them?

I mean think about this Palace recently went to Old Trafford scored 3 and could have scored 8, they saw us ship three to West Brom the previous week, their strength on the counter is also a weakness for us, you really think they would look at those things combined and think "nah ain't going to bother attacking today what's the point"?

Yes, we did well to stop their counter attacks but really, let's not pretend Crystal Palace are anything other than pragmatic, defensive under Roy Hodgson. We played a more proactive side yesterday, a side looking to attack and press us and look what happened.

8 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Not to mention they've won more big games away to the big six in recent years than the big six sides themselves, we limited a very dangerous and pacey counter attacking side to absolute scraps.

I don't know why the other Big 6 have struggled against Palace but our record against them has been good over the last few years. We have won 11 of the last 15 encounters, including the last 6. 

[Tomo 21,733]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

Yes, we did well to stop their counter attacks but really, let's not pretend Crystal Palace are anything other than pragmatic, defensive under Roy Hodgson. We played a more proactive side yesterday, a side looking to attack and press us and look what happened.

I don't know why the other Big 6 have struggled against Palace but our record against them has been good over the last few years. We have won 11 of the last 15 encounters, including the last 6. 

They may be pragmatic but the second they get the ball they look at getting at you quickly with the pace they have up front, we've had a lot of trouble with that in recent years (at Selhurst Park last season we looked vulnerable every time they did it). So it may be small sample size but it encouraging we managed to completely nullify that threat and hopefully the Silva/Mendy axis can keep that up.

Regarding our recent record against them, you're right we do seem to be avoiding the troubles our rivals get against them in regards to results but they usually make it hard for us and trouble us on the counter. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

A day has gone and im even more livid, saw the game again and man do we have fundemental issues and thats to the coaching. Since day 1 of FL tenure we still witness the same bs and mistakes, something has to give. Every single of their goals were a disgrace, cb's ball watching, distance between them all fucked, in extra time Vestergåd were between 5-6 of our players and none of our defenders were goal side of him....thats a fundemental issue and comes from the staff. Not good enough by half.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

They may be pragmatic but the second they get the ball they look at getting at you quickly with the pace they have up front, we've had a lot of trouble with that in recent years (at Selhurst Park last season we looked vulnerable every time they did it). So it may be small sample size but it encouraging we managed to completely nullify that threat and hopefully the Silva/Mendy axis can keep them up.

But that is still different from a side looking to play on the front foot. 

IIRC, that game at Selhurst Park last season was largely fine until they suddenly got their first goal back and then we just lost the plot in controlling the game, as always.

4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Regarding our recent record against them, you're right we do seem to be avoiding the troubles our rivals get against them in regards to results but they usually make it hard for us and trouble us on the counter. 

You're over-exaggerating that last bit.

[Special Juan 27,424]

It rocks us massively if we concede, we just go into our shells and collapse.

[Laylabelle 9,351]

5 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

It rocks us massively if we concede, we just go into our shells and collapse.

That's it. Never just one player its all of them that seem to lose the plot...just dont get it. We should be comfy..ish at 2-0..instead another 3-3 draw.

Just switch off and who knows where Kepa was running off to

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

I find it kinda hilarious that some spout about we only score from individuals talent. But when individuals fuck up its a tactical or management problem.... the way we started yesterday was superb, so let's get 1 thing straight lampard has some sort of clue because we smashed the game nearly the entire half. U can say what u want but my opinion will not change, our defense is just a disgrace. Azi kepa AC zouma rudigar alonso Emerson just trash dave has had his day he cannot push forward and make it back I time he hasn't got the legs, AC zouma do not mix its like watching a bull and a small scared lost boy out there. Kante this right here is the problem Kante is done, he pushes up to much he can't pass he spoils are offensive play n he's barely ever there to cover his own cock ups. If we are going to play this attacking football we need  Fernandinio or some sort of defensive quarter back player(if u say Jorginho u should slap yourself) you put a a shelvey or a Phillips in this team for kante and change jorgi for for say barkley or even mount it would completely change our play and open up completely new offensive channels.

[Special Juan 27,424]

I still cannot believe for the life of me what FL or anyone sees in Christensen...absolute dog shit.

[Tomo 21,733]

2 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

I still cannot believe for the life of me what FL or anyone sees in Christensen...absolute dog shit.

I see we've found our new scapegoat now Alonso's out of the team.

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

I see we've found our new scapegoat now Alonso's out of the team.

Always the same 

[Puliiszola 519]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

 

Or maybe, just maybe, Palace "didn't attack" because we didn't let them?

I mean think about this Palace recently went to Old Trafford scored 3 and could have scored 8, they saw us ship three to West Brom the previous week, their strength on the counter is also a weakness for us, you really think they would look at those things combined and think "nah ain't going to bother attacking today what's the point"?

Not to mention they've won more big games away to the big six in recent years than the big six sides themselves, we limited a very dangerous and pacey counter attacking side to absolute scraps.

I can see your point, but can't accept it.

Let's be honest, we were dominated by Brighton, we were dominated by wba for 45 mins and we were dominated by soton for more than 2/3rd of the game. Let's not even go to pool.

Palace was either an out of the world performance from us, or a shit showing from them. 

Also against United, they had 20% of the ball, it was a classic counter attacking performance. Palace have always played passively, sitting deep and then countering. As much as I would want to believe you, I just can't based on all the rest of our performances and the way palace normally sets up.