Super Frank Thread

[Vesper 28,795]

On 11/30/2019 at 6:33 PM, MoroccanBlue said:

RW should be the utmost priority. 

this aged well

[MoroccanBlue 5,297]

At least he’s acknowledged how awful our back line was today. Hope he address this

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

1 hour ago, Fernando said:

I wonder if we will go and buy ake this January? 

Do you you guys think he can imp or defense? 

I don't. 

If you ask me I think we must buy two towering centre backs before doing any sort of deal. 

I was watching some experts talk about rotation and they all said 'If you want to rest players you always rest the midfielders or the attackers, back line always stays put no matter what'. 

Look at Klopp's last matches, he's rested every single midfielder and attacker, but never his defenders. 

Frank must build a very solid defence and then we're good to go. If you ask me Reece James should be the only actual defender starting next season, too. The left back should be a Chilwell type of full back and the CB pairing should be an imposing and calm one, the type of Gimenez-Godin partnership. 

Zouma I think has reached his max level and he's not good enough, Christensen is too soft and surely this must be Azpilicueta's last season as a starter. The fact Lampard keeps chopping and changing at the back makes me think he does not trust them that much, hence must invest massively in that area. No reason to have ballers up front if defenders can't even do the basics. 

[Vesper 28,795]

4 hours ago, Fernando said:

And then also against West Ham people wanted Emerson out. 

So again it's not any better. 

Just that our defense is horrible. 

it's a miracle we are in top 4. We should be in 10th place! 

not out yet

we want a new bloody LB in the market

no one wanted the worn down plowhorse Azpi in at LB

he is poor enough at RB, but at LB you take a stop sign (him at RB) offensively and turn it into a black hole

plus his defence there somehow got even worse than it has been on occasion at RB

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

Frank Lampard has a stark warning for his Chelsea stars after Everton defeat

Frank Lampard did not hold back in his assessment of the Blues' performance as Chelsea fell to a 3-1 defeat at Goodison Park against Everton

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/news/frank-lampard-stark-warning-chelsea-17381140

Wonder if Lampard has given the players the hairdryer treatment because they deserved some bollocking for the recent defensive farce! 

[communicate 2,703]

5 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

For everybody moaning about Lampard, it should also be noted that City without Laporte are barely any better than us defensively without Rudiger.

Guardiola doesn't trust them to the point he is playing a midfielder at centre back and is regularly chopping and changing his back four. This despite the millions he's spent, four years at the club and a number of years experience at the top level prior to the City job.

Lampard isn't blameless but at the moment he has no choice but to make do with the defenders he has because we haven't been able to strengthen. With Rudiger out, three players who were out on loan last season would probably make our strongest XI, 2 of which were playing in the Championship last season. These players need to develop and it's difficult at present because they're playing with other defenders either not good enough or who's influence is in decline.

We'd get away with it like City do if we were more clinical because it's not from a lack of chances being created but with four of our main attacking players the age of 21 or under, that will hopefully come in time from then. For now though it's not helping us, because defensively we're pretty rubbish. Even today when we didn't play great, we could easily have scored 3 or 4 from the chances being created. The only game I can think of this season when that hasn't stood up is the West Ham game which was woeful all over.

Nah it is on Lamp. Zouma can't play as LCB,yet he is playing as LCB. Where the hell is Tomori.

Watching Christensen defending the box is killing my eyes. 

Zouma spend his time starting our attack, yes Zouma. I thought this is what Christensen is supposed to be good at. 

I have no idea why play Azpi as left back against Everton. 

[Superblue 6,370]

1 minute ago, communicate said:

Nah it is on Lamp. Zouma can't play as LCB,yet he is playing as LCB. Where the hell is Tomori.

Watching Christensen defending the box is killing my eyes. 

Zouma spend his time starting our attack, yes Zouma. I thought this is what Christensen is supposed to be good at. 

I have no idea why play Azpi as left back against Everton. 

And evidently Christensen either can't or won't play on the left either. Even if Rudiger was fit he has historically played for us as the right sided defender too. So this leaves Tomori as our only left sided centre back, and we can't expect him to play every single game because no one else is capable of playing there. Tomori hasn't been in the greatest form himself either in recent games and none of us are privy to training, etc. Has he dropped off now he's been a regular in the team and Lampard has needed to do this to give him a wake up call?

It's also not just as simple as buying a new centre back, we need another left sided one to replace either Zouma or Christensen (I personally would replace Christensen) to keep the balance of the squad right. 

In hindsight perhaps Azpi wasn't the best choice at left back but I think Lampard expected Everton to come out guns blazing today and felt he was the better, more experienced and more solid option there. Defensively he was pretty good on both sides against Man City. I think it was probably a mistake for Lampard not to bring him off today but then he had alternative plans anyway by changing to a back three with two up front to chase the game. 

What the last couple of weeks has shown is he doesn't trust either Emerson or Alonso. Alonso has been completed dropped from the squad since his Ajax debacle and the City game really showed Emerson up too. Neither offer enough going forward either to justify being poor defensively.

One thing interesting that West Ham and Everton have both hinted at is that their game plan consisted of closing up the middle and forcing us out wide. This will start becoming something common to contend with if we continue struggling against this tactic. Jose will already be eyeing up how to nullify us. Again though this highlights the left back issue because with two full backs capable of delivering out wide, teams can't afford to give them space because they'll be punished eventually. At the moment we have no wide threat on that left hand side.

[Fernando 6,455]

4 hours ago, petre.ispirescu said:

I don't. 

If you ask me I think we must buy two towering centre backs before doing any sort of deal. 

I was watching some experts talk about rotation and they all said 'If you want to rest players you always rest the midfielders or the attackers, back line always stays put no matter what'. 

Look at Klopp's last matches, he's rested every single midfielder and attacker, but never his defenders. 

Frank must build a very solid defence and then we're good to go. If you ask me Reece James should be the only actual defender starting next season, too. The left back should be a Chilwell type of full back and the CB pairing should be an imposing and calm one, the type of Gimenez-Godin partnership. 

Zouma I think has reached his max level and he's not good enough, Christensen is too soft and surely this must be Azpilicueta's last season as a starter. The fact Lampard keeps chopping and changing at the back makes me think he does not trust them that much, hence must invest massively in that area. No reason to have ballers up front if defenders can't even do the basics. 

I agree but it seems like the easy trade is to trigger the buy back clause. I see the likelihood of that very high. 

And hence we will be stuck with ake....

I prefer someone like you mentioned, Giménez type of defender but I'm not sure sure if we will do that. 

And azpi I wonder if he would improve as a cb? He did that with Conte. But it was a back three... 

[Strike 7,217]

4 hours ago, Fernando said:

I agree but it seems like the easy trade is to trigger the buy back clause. I see the likelihood of that very high. 

And hence we will be stuck with ake....

I prefer someone like you mentioned, Giménez type of defender but I'm not sure sure if we will do that. 

And azpi I wonder if he would improve as a cb? He did that with Conte. But it was a back three... 

I don't think we need to try and fit Azpi in at CB. That will have its own learning curve and we don't have the luxury to do that. Would rather go with Rudiger and Tomori as first-choice until one of Christensen or Zouma are replaced 

[Laylabelle 9,351]

I know we have a young squad and get it wouldn't be easy but for me it's that we keep making the same defensive mistakes over and over and over and over. That is such a issue. So many goals against. It's not like it's a totally new backline either. Just seem to lose the plot

[communicate 2,703]

14 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

And evidently Christensen either can't or won't play on the left either. Even if Rudiger was fit he has historically played for us as the right sided defender too. So this leaves Tomori as our only left sided centre back, and we can't expect him to play every single game because no one else is capable of playing there. Tomori hasn't been in the greatest form himself either in recent games and none of us are privy to training, etc. Has he dropped off now he's been a regular in the team and Lampard has needed to do this to give him a wake up call?

It's also not just as simple as buying a new centre back, we need another left sided one to replace either Zouma or Christensen (I personally would replace Christensen) to keep the balance of the squad right. 

In hindsight perhaps Azpi wasn't the best choice at left back but I think Lampard expected Everton to come out guns blazing today and felt he was the better, more experienced and more solid option there. Defensively he was pretty good on both sides against Man City. I think it was probably a mistake for Lampard not to bring him off today but then he had alternative plans anyway by changing to a back three with two up front to chase the game. 

What the last couple of weeks has shown is he doesn't trust either Emerson or Alonso. Alonso has been completed dropped from the squad since his Ajax debacle and the City game really showed Emerson up too. Neither offer enough going forward either to justify being poor defensively.

One thing interesting that West Ham and Everton have both hinted at is that their game plan consisted of closing up the middle and forcing us out wide. This will start becoming something common to contend with if we continue struggling against this tactic. Jose will already be eyeing up how to nullify us. Again though this highlights the left back issue because with two full backs capable of delivering out wide, teams can't afford to give them space because they'll be punished eventually. At the moment we have no wide threat on that left hand side.

Let's assume that Christensen can only play on the right. It mean this season we have Zouma and Chris that can only play on the right with Tomori and Rudiger who both can certainly play on the left. I believe Rudiger played as LCB under Conte. So we have a complete set. Is it reasonable to think that Tomori will play all game, no way but he didn't play against villa so he need to play against West Ham. 

It doesn't matter whether he trusted Emerson or Alonso. It all depend on what he want from his left back. If he want better protection, play Azpi. Want height and goal threat play Alonso, want speed play Emerson. Of course a better lb will be great but we don't have one so it is up to the manager to decide and adjust his team accordingly. We won the league with Azpi as left back. 

In term of closing down the middle. That is just basic defending. Every team will always pack the middle until you can show that you are threat in the wide area. 

[Superblue 6,370]

6 hours ago, communicate said:

Let's assume that Christensen can only play on the right. It mean this season we have Zouma and Chris that can only play on the right with Tomori and Rudiger who both can certainly play on the left. I believe Rudiger played as LCB under Conte. So we have a complete set. Is it reasonable to think that Tomori will play all game, no way but he didn't play against villa so he need to play against West Ham. 

It doesn't matter whether he trusted Emerson or Alonso. It all depend on what he want from his left back. If he want better protection, play Azpi. Want height and goal threat play Alonso, want speed play Emerson. Of course a better lb will be great but we don't have one so it is up to the manager to decide and adjust his team accordingly. We won the league with Azpi as left back. 

In term of closing down the middle. That is just basic defending. Every team will always pack the middle until you can show that you are threat in the wide area. 

Rudiger played on the left of a three man defence for a period. In a back four he's played right side all of last season so it still remains to be seen if he can operate on the left side in that formation.

And even then, he's our best defender. Surely we play him in his strongest position and everyone else around him.

[Yeboii 1,844]

Now, since our attacking has dried up a bit for the time being, I feel that Frank must focus on defense at number 1, 2 and 3. 

Probably our strongest defensive line-up would be (depending on how fit Rudiger is after being out for half a season).

James/Azpi - Rudiger - Tomori - Emerson.

[manpe 10,861]

Haven't been reading this forum a lot for the past few days but my god the last pages of this thread make me want to cry. Just another example of prevalent hypocrisy on here. At first? Give him time, it's all part of learning curve, it's a painful but necessary process yada yada. Then we hit a slump, the same supporters? Lampard out, he's another AVB, he's out of his depth... Often times these same people will then bash others for fickleness. Can't wait to go on another winning run and watch them all change their minds... again. It's like people can't comprehend after years and years of watching teams go through highs and lows, that there aren't such things as perfect seasons for a team like ours.

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Rudiger played on the left of a three man defence for a period. In a back four he's played right side all of last season so it still remains to be seen if he can operate on the left side in that formation.

And even then, he's our best defender. Surely we play him in his strongest position and everyone else around him.

If you can play lcb in 3 man defense , you certainly can play as lcb in 2 man defense. Last year we had Luiz who is almost two footed, so it made sense for Rudi to be on the right. 

That work for a attacking player but defense is all about collective work, you don't select player to get the best out of certain player. 

[Vesper 28,795]

On 12/7/2019 at 9:36 PM, petre.ispirescu said:

I don't. 

If you ask me I think we must buy two towering centre backs before doing any sort of deal. 

I was watching some experts talk about rotation and they all said 'If you want to rest players you always rest the midfielders or the attackers, back line always stays put no matter what'. 

Look at Klopp's last matches, he's rested every single midfielder and attacker, but never his defenders. 

Frank must build a very solid defence and then we're good to go. If you ask me Reece James should be the only actual defender starting next season, too. The left back should be a Chilwell type of full back and the CB pairing should be an imposing and calm one, the type of Gimenez-Godin partnership. 

Zouma I think has reached his max level and he's not good enough, Christensen is too soft and surely this must be Azpilicueta's last season as a starter. The fact Lampard keeps chopping and changing at the back makes me think he does not trust them that much, hence must invest massively in that area. No reason to have ballers up front if defenders can't even do the basics. 

José Giménez is the same height as Tomori (1.85m)

Godin is 1.87m (same as Kalidou Koulibaly, who Napoli for years tried to lie and say was 1.95m, lololol)

so neither are really giants

they both are superb at positional play and ball playing

proof on Kouibaly's height, btw

Patrick Vieira is 1.93m

Marek Hamšík is 1.83cm, same height I am

 

Giorgio Chiellini is 1.87m

 

[Tomo 21,733]

2 hours ago, manpe said:

Haven't been reading this forum a lot for the past few days but my god the last pages of this thread make me want to cry. Just another example of prevalent hypocrisy on here. At first? Give him time, it's all part of learning curve, it's a painful but necessary process yada yada. Then we hit a slump, the same supporters? Lampard out, he's another AVB, he's out of his depth... Often times these same people will then bash others for fickleness. Can't wait to go on another winning run and watch them all change their minds... again. It's like people can't comprehend after years and years of watching teams go through highs and lows, that there aren't such things as perfect seasons for a team like ours.

The bit I love the most is how many people said they'd be patient and happily accept midtable if we play academy players and are showing promise? Yet we're doing both of those currently in the CL places and people are losing their shit.

As I said yesterday I don't think the winning run helped things, a bit like last season's unbeaten start it gave out the false narrative that we're title challenges when it was never a realistic possibility which in turn (in my opinion) has some people genuinely believing that this is a title winning team in a catastrophic slump instead of a young team and a club in a cultural reboot having inevitable ups and downs.

It's part of the reason I was worried about the appointment as much as I wanted it, fan expectation is just far too high.

[manpe 10,861]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

The bit I love the most is how many people said they'd be patient and happily accept midtable if we play academy players and are showing promise? Yet we're doing both of those currently in the CL places and people are losing their shit.

As I said yesterday I don't think the winning run helped things, a bit like last season's unbeaten start it gave out the false narrative that we're title challenges when it was never a realistic possibility which in turn (in my opinion) has some people genuinely believing that this is a title winning team in a catastrophic slump instead of a young team and a club in a cultural reboot having inevitable ups and downs.

It's part of the reason I was worried about the appointment as much as I wanted it, can expectation is just far too high.

100000% spot on