Super Frank Thread

[Tomo 21,681]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

That's another debate but I'm talking about the PL in general this season. We have won only 4 of our last 12 league games and somehow we're still in the Top 4. 

It is probably a stroke of fortune the competition is so shit (for top 4) while we go through the biggest rebuild of the Roman era but that's not really our problem, shit happens, in the 00s we would have turned the PL into the SPL if Fergie weren't around. If, buts, maybe's.

[Vesper 27,283]

Chelsea are eerily reminiscent of late Wenger-era Arsenal: technically gifted but capable of spectacular self-destruction

https://theathletic.com/1551483/2020/01/22/chelsea-arsenal-lampard-wenger/

If there was a moment to sum up the madness that engulfed Chelsea against 10-man Arsenal at Stamford Bridge, it was the sight of a hobbling Tammy Abraham on the corner of his own penalty area in the 87th minute.

Having been down, up, down and then up again with an ankle injury that required him to be helped from the pitch at full-time, the striker gamely, but pointlessly, volunteered himself as Hector Bellerin’s primary defender.

By the time the Arsenal captain’s shot crept inside Kepa Arrizabalaga’s far post, Frank Lampard was back in his seat in the home dugout, hunched next to a seething Jody Morris.

Both had spent much of the previous 60 seconds on the edge of the technical area, arms outstretched and bellowing — first at the referee Stuart Attwell for not stopping play to allow treatment for Abraham, then at their own players for not taking several opportunities to kick the ball out of play.

It was the 11th Premier League goal that Chelsea have conceded after the 75th minute this season. Of the 32 goals they have let in altogether, 20 have been scored after half-time.

Lampard admitted during the festive period that tiredness might have played a part but his team did not appear a step behind an Arsenal side forced to play the final 64 minutes on Tuesday night with 10 men. Chelsea did, however, once again display a startling lack of coherence and composure.

“At that point in the game you go 2-1 up, you have got to do the basics right,” Lampard said. “Get all the details right. We got one wrong, with the first (goal). And the second one was soft; soft for a right-back to cut inside and score into the bottom corner. You have to be real about it and honest about it that they had two shots — the breakaway in the first one and the second one late in the game — and they scored two goals.”

That statistical quirk has only occurred six times in Europe’s top five leagues since 2006, according to Opta. Arsenal’s expected goals (xG) rating for the match was just 0.39, compared to 2.79 for Chelsea. Lampard’s team have failed to win seven times in 12 league games at Stamford Bridge this season despite only being beaten on xG once at home. They have scored almost 11 fewer goals than the numbers suggest they should have (16 goals from an xG of 26.63) and conceded three more (12 from an xGA of 8.94).

“I don’t like too many stats on expected goals because it is not all that clear at times, but we are bottom of the league at home (for goals scored), and we’re creating second to probably Liverpool (in terms of chances),” Lampard added. “That is two ends of the scale of where we’re at.”

But as much as the analytical margins appear to be aligning against Chelsea this season, they also do precious little to protect themselves against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. No competent team with a 1-0 lead allows their own cleared corner to become a goal conceded on the counter-attack in the space of 10 seconds, or so haplessly fails to manage the clock against 10 men pushing for an equaliser.

Chelsea have at times paid for the naivety of youth under Lampard but only three players in his starting XI against Arsenal were aged 23 or younger. Of that trio, Callum Hudson-Odoi was the home side’s most consistent threat in the final third, while Abraham was a harrying menace whose persistence panicked Shkodran Mustafi and ruined David Luiz’s first night back at Stamford Bridge since his summer move from Chelsea to Arsenal. At the other end, Andreas Christensen generally positioned himself, and passed, sensibly.

Other, more experienced heads assumed greater culpability for Arsenal’s fightback: Emerson abandoning his covering duties on the edge of the Arsenal box to give the superb Gabriel Martinelli space in which to run, then being too casual in his attempt to move out and close down Bellerin. N’Golo Kante’s uncharacteristic and costly slip to set Martinelli away; the uncertainty that emanated from Kepa’s every touch of the ball, coupled with his unconvincing attempts to prevent both goals.

In their most brainless moments, this current Chelsea are eerily reminiscent of late Arsene Wenger-era Arsenal: technically gifted, physically deficient and wired only to dominate the ball but capable of such spectacular self-destruction that it is virtually impossible to consider any lead safe or comeback likely. At times, it is difficult to divine what exactly the overall plan is supposed to be.

Such a galling comparison would fall squarely on the shoulders of Lampard, were it not for the fact that predecessor Maurizio Sarri encountered many of the same problems. The reality is that the Arsenalification of Chelsea began in the latter half of Antonio Conte’s reign. The departures of Diego Costa, Nemanja Matic, John Terry, Thibaut Courtois and Gary Cahill since the nightmare summer of 2017 created a deficit of physicality and personality in the squad that is yet to be addressed.

Lampard wants to empower his players to think for themselves within his tactical framework and general principles — high-tempo possession, pressing, switching the point of attack — as many of Europe’s elite coaches do. The ideal is a balance of discipline and dynamism, knowing when to rely on rehearsed patterns of play and when to read the situation and react. Too often, Chelsea’s reality has been marked by stale sideways passing, erratic decision-making and poor game management.

“Unfortunately you can talk about (managing situations) and work on them, but on some of these things it’s not working,” Lampard said. “We set up to defend the edge of the box when we have a corner. If it is different on the pitch then that’s not good enough. It’s not (about) working, it’s something they have to do on the pitch. If they can’t do it then someone else will have to do it right.”

Lampard has made no secret of his desire to strengthen in January, but his admission after the Arsenal draw that it is “probably more of a short-term window for us” hints at an increased awareness of the poverty of the market. Edinson Cavani of Paris Saint-Germain is the only high-profile goalscorer available and, at 32, would be a signing in the mould of Chelsea’s worst transfer impulses: an extravagantly well-paid striker with a big reputation built in a prime now irretrievably behind him.

As he wheeled away to celebrate his equaliser, Bellerin’s mind may have drifted back to the memory of being brutally flattened by Marcos Alonso in that same penalty area almost exactly three years ago as his countryman headed Chelsea’s first goal of a 3-1 win over Arsenal. Conte’s team were marching towards an emphatic Premier League title triumph then while Wenger was drifting slowly to the end, and that moment seemed to perfectly distil the contrasting cultures and trajectories of the two clubs.

Eden Hazard’s sale brought a final end to that Chelsea cycle, and Lampard is mired in the painful process of redefining the team’s identity. Even their season as a whole lacks a coherent narrative: wildly inconsistent, obviously flawed and often unconvincing, they somehow remain on course for a top-four finish in the Premier League as well as alive in the Champions League and FA Cup.

The next four opponents after Saturday’s FA Cup trip to Hull City – Leicester City, Manchester United, Tottenham and Bayern Munich – will provide an unwelcome check to Lampard’s ambitions on all fronts if the mistakes exploited by Arsenal go uncorrected.

Chelsea have so far benefited from the greater dysfunction of their top-four race rivals, but finding more ways to concede than you can to create is a combination that can only lead to ultimate failure in May.

[communicate 2,703]

14 hours ago, Tomo said:

 

In terms of the match in itself I agree and have stated such numerous times, however people seem to be using this match as some yardstick of decline which couldn't be further from the truth.

In term of our team, it is obvious that we depend on kids to produce number. but I knew since the beginning that wont last. We have good kids but they are not exactly world beater. 

They are too young and still not good enough to carry this team. Willian is not a number guy and lamp doesn't  trust the other two striker and he froze out Pedro. Kovacic and jorgi won't produce number. Kante will add a few goals. Lamp prefer Emerson to Alonso. 

Without reinforcement (new striker) the only solution is to play another guy who can produce goals for us, I think it is too late for Pedro but lamp need to play Alonso more. 

 

[Jase 43,479]

7 hours ago, Mana said:

This squad will probably won't get that run again. They are too tired and inexperienced.

I know I can be pessimistic at times but your constant pessimism is something else.

Also, this talk of the squad being inexperienced has seriously been blown out of proportion this season. There are young players in the squad but there are more senior players in it than the young ones. Only Abraham, Mount, Hudson-Odoi, Tomori and Pulisic can be considered inexperienced in the Premier League (otherwise, it's only 4 players if you consider Pulisic's top flight football experience). The rest are old enough and have played long enough in this league to know better. 

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

My tune was always 'This is a transitional season' and I am going to stick by it. 

I agree to Frank Lampard - the players up front are not clinical enough. 

The reason why Liverpool is so good it is because their front three (Mane, Salah, Firmino) are a constant threat and always looks to find ways to shoot/score and on top of that two out of their three midfielders always find themselves in scoring positions, too. 

Lampard is right - to me it looks there is nobody up front, nor in midfield, that has that clinical finish. And honestly this 'Kante playing advanced' BS must stop soon, he is simply a DM, maybe the best in his position and must switch positions with Jorginho. 

This is simply an inefective midfield that would work if those up front would be top class. But since they are not, what is the point of having both a non scoring midfield and attack? Does not make sense to me. 

To me it is very simple - it should be Kante the DM plus another two midfielders that would pose a threat by shooting/being a constant danger in the final third. Plus the ones up front must be more clinical, shoot more, not just pass it sideways and spray tons of crosses into the box when Abraham does not even attack the first post. I mean I like Tammy but it is the basis of a striker to attack the first post when a cross comes in, but 9 times out of 10 he's just on the other side of the penalty area. 

[Tomo 21,681]

3 hours ago, Mana said:

You cannot blame me with these constant poor results and performances. 

I think Jason is more referring to the fact that you spin a negative on almost anything. How many times after a victory is your thought is to hypothetically change the match scenario's so it makes us lose (ala the game at The Emirates)?

[bigbluewillie 1,805]

On 18/01/2020 at 7:28 PM, Mana said:

If we don’t get anybody this window, I want Lampard sacked. Fed up. Pissed off. I’ve been saying it. This squad ain’t good enough for top 4. This manager is also making mistakes.

Hold on, you want him sacked because of the dregs that have been dumped on him, I think he's he's doing terrific considering.

No the squad aint good enough I agree but that is hardly his fault.

You're too impatient we've got to give him 3 years then if thing's haven't improved, player and and result wise then yes consider if he needs to go.

 

[Tomo 21,681]

18 minutes ago, Mana said:

We got the victory and it was 3 points, but it was overall a terrible performance. It was like back to the Mourinho days. For the large majority of the match I was pissed off at the team, so how is that a spin?

Your narrative was "if Leno didn't make the mistake", conviently you didn't factor if, buts and maybe's in when we lost points due to a mistake the other night.

And it wasn't "like the Mourinho days", soon as we made that change we were the only team in it, if that happened in reverse you'd be banging on about how amazing Arsenal were and how superior they are.

[Tomo 21,681]

2 minutes ago, Mana said:

I didn’t say Arsenal were “amazing”, I said they were more compact and made it super hard for us to break them down. I’ll bet all my money that if Leno didn’t make that mistake (and there weren’t any further Arsenal mistakes) we would have lost.

Maybe, but the point is if Kante didn't slip we would have very likely cruised to the most comfortable win of the season.

I'm not using it as an excuse myself, just saying if you want to play what ifs then it's only fair it works both ways, no?

[Atomiswave 6,072]

I want him to stay and do super well but in the end his still a rookie and have so so much to learn. Maybe it comes with time and money well spent.

But its worrying what we are seeing.....forget plan B, what is plan A? What is the system and structor? Cuz I see none of that. We still do not have a first 11, every player gets chopped and changed so often.

Same bloody mistakes all season with no remedy....basics all out the window. Yes we have suffered with injuries, we have average players or spent ones but that does not excuse not having a system.

This will be so tough on FL and I feel for him.

[Nicco 927]

Sack Lampard and get a real manager like Pochettino before it's to late.

[Tomo 21,681]

7 minutes ago, Nicco said:

Sack Lampard and get a real manager like Pochettino before it's to late.

Who you would demand is sacked within months .

[Nicco 927]

Just now, Tomo said:

Who you would demand is sacked within months .

Let's not pretend I wanted Sarri or Conte sacked, only this clueless rookie, has no business managing a top side, at least not yet.

[killer1257 3,282]

Let's not pretend I wanted Sarri or Conte sacked, only this clueless rookie, has no business managing a top side, at least not yet.

I highly doubt that Guardiola would do any better than our "clueless rookie".

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[Nicco 927]

6 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I highly doubt that Guardiola would do any better than our "clueless rookie".

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Says who? Pretty sure Guardiola would've killed the game 2 days ago if he went up a man, this crap needs to stop. Frank Lampard singlehandely transformed our average, bad defense to a none existing one in the span of a few months, that alone is a sackable offense, I don't give a fuck about his excuses and his zonal defense crap if it doesn't work change it but this guy makes the same stupid mistakes. He talks about Emerson leaving his post in that counter attack like it's normal to have all players in the opposite field with a narrow 1-0 lead.

[killer1257 3,282]

Says who? Pretty sure Guardiola would've killed the game 2 days ago if he went up a man, this crap needs to stop. Frank Lampard singlehandely transformed our average, bad defense to a none existing one in the span of a few months, that alone is a sackable offense, I don't give a fuck about his excuses and his zonal defense crap if it doesn't work change it but this guy makes the same stupid mistakes. He talks about Emerson leaving his post in that counter attack like it's normal to have all players in the opposite field with a narrow 1-0 lead.

Guardiola would have never killed the game with players like Willian in the team.
Man City have conceded only 5 goals less than us and they have a way better goalkeeper. Guardiola also uses zonal defense. You just don't like Lamps

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[Tomo 21,681]

6 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Guardiola would have never killed the game with players like Willian in the team.

Man City have conceded only 5 goals less than us and they have a way better goalkeeper. Guardiola also uses zonal defense. You just don't like Lamps

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In fairness that's a good point made, you would never see Pep draw 2-2 after leading with an extra man.

[killer1257 3,282]

Says who? Pretty sure Guardiola would've killed the game 2 days ago if he went up a man, this crap needs to stop. Frank Lampard singlehandely transformed our average, bad defense to a none existing one in the span of a few months, that alone is a sackable offense, I don't give a fuck about his excuses and his zonal defense crap if it doesn't work change it but this guy makes the same stupid mistakes. He talks about Emerson leaving his post in that counter attack like it's normal to have all players in the opposite field with a narrow 1-0 lead.

Remember 2:2 Chelsea vs Barcelona when clueless Guardiola drew a 10 men Chelsea?

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