The Conte Thread

[Special Juan 28,141]

You would have to be blind not to see under-performing players in this team....They stick out like a sore thumb.

[quickpassnmove 924]

On 9/27/2016 at 3:35 PM, MefiX19 said:

3 fullbacks and a kid that haven't played as CB for ages as back 4? Oscar that plays 4 good games in a season and a overrated kid in midfield? Sorry no. Back four should consist of Alonzo and Azpi as fullbacks And Luiz and Terry as Cb (If not Terry then give Tomori a chance). I vould like to try the midfield of Chalobah as CDM Fabregas and Kante. Kante should roam freely and try to intercept their attacks and try to move the team forward. And i agree on Moses, he should start instead of Wilian without a doubt

Right on.

[mccg 1,528]

1 hour ago, Special Juan said:

You would have to be blind not to see under-performing players in this team....They stick out like a sore thumb.

We our going through a similar transformation over the last few years as the Utd team had , as we had a squad full of legends and character and havn't replaced them(barring afew) ,and afew in the squad that should have left imho, the board over the years seemed to not  have the foresight of what losing these players would have in the future.Hope they back Conte as he seems to have some sort of clue in what is needed and in what direction to go in and what players are worthy of the shirt.

[Miki-Liki 405]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

Pogba is from United´s youth system,not from the Juventus youth system.Conte never integrated a youth team player from his own youth system. One could argue that the Juvenus youth system is not on our level

Doesn't matter, he was 19 at that time.

[BoyBlue96 990]

Haha we all knew our squad was full of shit even before the start of the season and now Roman finally starts to see he needs to put some pounds on the table.

[killer1257 3,282]

1 hour ago, Miki-Liki said:

Doesn't matter, he was 19 at that time.

It matters because if that is the case,Mourinho can be considered as a youth lover by integrating Varane and Zouma in his starting line up,but he never ever integrated a player from his own clubs academy.

[Miki-Liki 405]

15 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

It matters because if that is the case,Mourinho can be considered as a youth lover by integrating Varane and Zouma in his starting line up,but he never ever integrated a player from his own clubs academy.

Quite right, but they've hardly become "world class" during his tenure, have they? He didn't even play them that much.

[robsblubot 3,595]

7 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Four points again. What is it with you on the number four? 😊

Firstly, your point about information. I don't think it has anything to do with the conversation we've been having but you're right of course. I think I've written more posts making this point in the last few months than I have about anything else. It bemuses me when people ask the question, "Why can't the managers see what we can see?". Of course the managers can see everything we do, plus they have the opportunity to see, and to know, a great deal more. No matter how strange a manager's decision may seem, none of us can be certain that, given the same information he has, we would not do exactly the same.

The reason I say this has nothing to do with the conversation we have been having is because it's not a pressure from above. It's just the manager using knowledge and information to inform the decisions he makes. His own decisions.

On the case of money. Unless we're talking about bribery of the manager, money isn't going to come into it. These financial concerns wouldn't affect the manager. They might of course be a motivation for the club to put pressure on the manager but that just brings us back to where we started. Financial concerns might make the club want to have a player selected but there is no evidence that they have put any manager under pressure to do it.

On Roman. Being the owner does give him the authority, if not actually the entitlement, to issue directives to his staff. Once again this gets us nowhere other than back to where we started.  Even if he might like to do it, there is no evidence that Roman has told managers to pick a certain player.

On availability. I've made that point a number of times myself but in connection with young players. I've argued that perhaps the club is starving the squad of senior players in a bid to force the selection of youngsters. I don't seriously think this is what is going on. I've just put it forward previously as a potential explanation for what we have seen. That is still not direct pressure of the, "pick this player, not that player", type.

Heh fair enough, but you are the one who specified "from above."

consider that money and roaman personal preferences can exert influence on members of the staff who the manager relies on for information.

in other words, the pressure can be far more subtle than pure briberies - same happens in politics: while bribing is against the law, more and more money flows into politics regardless (lobbying seems very effective).

[OhForAGreavsie 6,077]

1 hour ago, Robguima said:

Heh fair enough, but you are the one who specified "from above."

consider that money and roaman personal preferences can exert influence on members of the staff who the manager relies on for information.

in other words, the pressure can be far more subtle than pure briberies - same happens in politics: while bribing is against the law, more and more money flows into politics regardless (lobbying seems very effective).

 Yep, that's all fair enough except that you were the one that started to talk about from above. Remember, I replied to comment on your assumption that the club was putting pressure on the managers, i.e. from above. 🙂

[The Mak 4,459]

I think it would be cheaper for Roman to invest in a time machine to take Conte back to 2013, pre-Mourinho.

[El P. 1,354]

Our squad on paper isn't that bad, at least in midfield and attack. But is something like an unsolvable puzzle.

Willian - When you have player like Willian on wing, workhorse who can keep the ball but can't actually produce anything, you need to have one freakishly creative attacking midfielder (nope) and somewhat creative another winger (Hazard, ok) to compensate.

Fabregas - Where to start? When you have Fabregas in midfield, you need to have at least good defense (nope) and two working horses around him (usually we have that), and one of those need to be at least somewhat creative and good on the ball to help him (usually we don't have that).

Matić - With him, tall and slow-ish, you need to have two somewhat mobile midfielders around him. Certainly not Fabregas. And of course, midfielders around him should be creative, at least one of them.

Kante - He is best bet. Is great working machine, good movement, mobile, not bad on the ball. Give him somewhat creative partners, maybe even put someone behind him (Xabi Alonso type of player) and you have hell of a midfield.

Oscar - Can't even go in any combination. He is just not good enough for any top team.

So, as I said, unsolvable puzzle. Fabregas/Matić must leave, preferably both of them. They may come good in some another system, but for sure not in this team.

[Jase 43,479]

33 minutes ago, El P. said:

Our squad on paper isn't that bad, at least in midfield and attack. But is something like an unsolvable puzzle.

Willian - When you have player like Willian on wing, workhorse who can keep the ball but can't actually produce anything, you need to have one freakishly creative attacking midfielder (nope) and somewhat creative another winger (Hazard, ok) to compensate.

Fabregas - Where to start? When you have Fabregas in midfield, you need to have at least good defense (nope) and two working horses around him (usually we have that), and one of those need to be at least somewhat creative and good on the ball to help him (usually we don't have that).

Matić - With him, tall and slow-ish, you need to have two somewhat mobile midfielders around him. Certainly not Fabregas. And of course, midfielders around him should be creative, at least one of them.

Kante - He is best bet. Is great working machine, good movement, mobile, not bad on the ball. Give him somewhat creative partners, maybe even put someone behind him (Xabi Alonso type of player) and you have hell of a midfield.

Oscar - Can't even go in any combination. He is just not good enough for any top team.

So, as I said, unsolvable puzzle. Fabregas/Matić must leave, preferably both of them. They may come good in some another system, but for sure not in this team.

The squad only looks decent on paper to the fellas who don't watch us or have a clue about football. Our squad is just pathetic for a top club on paper and on the pitch. Take Hazard, Costa and Kante out of the side and we're nothing more than a mid-table club.

[nofacej 132]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

The squad only looks decent on paper to the fellas who don't watch us or have a clue about football. Our squad is just pathetic for a top club on paper and on the pitch. Take Hazard, Costa and Kante out of the side and we're nothing more than a mid-table club.

Sadly I've come to agree with this sentiment.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

1 hour ago, El P. said:

Our squad on paper isn't that bad, at least in midfield and attack. But is something like an unsolvable puzzle.

Willian - When you have player like Willian on wing, workhorse who can keep the ball but can't actually produce anything, you need to have one freakishly creative attacking midfielder (nope) and somewhat creative another winger (Hazard, ok) to compensate.

Fabregas - Where to start? When you have Fabregas in midfield, you need to have at least good defense (nope) and two working horses around him (usually we have that), and one of those need to be at least somewhat creative and good on the ball to help him (usually we don't have that).

Matić - With him, tall and slow-ish, you need to have two somewhat mobile midfielders around him. Certainly not Fabregas. And of course, midfielders around him should be creative, at least one of them.

Kante - He is best bet. Is great working machine, good movement, mobile, not bad on the ball. Give him somewhat creative partners, maybe even put someone behind him (Xabi Alonso type of player) and you have hell of a midfield.

Oscar - Can't even go in any combination. He is just not good enough for any top team.

So, as I said, unsolvable puzzle. Fabregas/Matić must leave, preferably both of them. They may come good in some another system, but for sure not in this team.

You basically told us why most of these players are bad. They can do this but not that. Matic and Oscar however can't do fuck all.

The difference in the technical quality of our team compared to other top or even some midtable clubs is absolutely staggering. The likes of Ivanovic, Matic and Oscar are not footballers. Real madrid have full backs with with better technique and that's just embarrasing for us.

[Henrique 9,133]

On 28/09/2016 at 7:44 PM, iceboy said:

Anyone have this page 71? Times was one of the best papers around, but it was the first to ask for money from readers, now it seems others will follow this trend, I think Telegraph or Guardian are already asking for money.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

1 hour ago, Henrique said:

Anyone have this page 71? Times was one of the best papers around, but it was the first to ask for money from readers, now it seems others will follow this trend, I think Telegraph or Guardian are already asking for money.

I don't have the page but this article from "the independent" seems to summarise the Times article. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/chelsea-transfer-news-roman-abramovich-backs-antonio-conte-squad-overhaul-three-day-meetings-a7337016.html#commentsDiv

 Seems to be that Abramovich is backing Conte and 5 players are on the chopping block. Ivanovic, Cahill, Oscar, Matic and Fabregas.

[BoyBlue96 990]

5 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

I don't have the page but this article from "the independent" seems to summarise the Times article. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/chelsea-transfer-news-roman-abramovich-backs-antonio-conte-squad-overhaul-three-day-meetings-a7337016.html#commentsDiv

 Seems to be that Abramovich is backing Conte and 5 players are on the chopping block. Ivanovic, Cahill, Oscar, Matic and Fabregas.

3 midfielders....and the last one (Cesc) isn't even that bad imo. But it stuns me that the club realises this new squad overhaul when we, the fans and the critics, knew this when our last 2015/2016 campaign ended.

God I would love it to have a midfielder like Koke in our team...and those are the names we should target next time.

[communicate 2,703]

The worst part for me is we are not supposed to be on "transition" period.

We were under AVB and benitez where we still had lampard and drogba starting for us but we have passed that stage. We are supposed to be challenging year in and year out with this core of Costa,Hazard,Fabregas, a CB and Courtouis.

Yet we need a major squad overhaul, for me that simply cannot happen because it is too expensive to overhaul your squad again and again in short time span

[Special Juan 28,141]

Transition is constant for us because of the amount of managerial changes we make. We will not be stable until a manager is allowed to implement their ideas and structure.

[DYC. 7,542]

13 hours ago, El P. said:

Our squad on paper isn't that bad, at least in midfield and attack. But is something like an unsolvable puzzle.

Willian - When you have player like Willian on wing, workhorse who can keep the ball but can't actually produce anything, you need to have one freakishly creative attacking midfielder (nope) and somewhat creative another winger (Hazard, ok) to compensate.

Fabregas - Where to start? When you have Fabregas in midfield, you need to have at least good defense (nope) and two working horses around him (usually we have that), and one of those need to be at least somewhat creative and good on the ball to help him (usually we don't have that).

Matić - With him, tall and slow-ish, you need to have two somewhat mobile midfielders around him. Certainly not Fabregas. And of course, midfielders around him should be creative, at least one of them.

Kante - He is best bet. Is great working machine, good movement, mobile, not bad on the ball. Give him somewhat creative partners, maybe even put someone behind him (Xabi Alonso type of player) and you have hell of a midfield.

Oscar - Can't even go in any combination. He is just not good enough for any top team.

So, as I said, unsolvable puzzle. Fabregas/Matić must leave, preferably both of them. They may come good in some another system, but for sure not in this team.

Willian needs De Bruyne and Hazard.

Fabregas needs Atletico's defence and Vidal and Modric.

Oscar and Matic need Jesus, Mohammed and Moses. And Buddha.

Kind of amazing how Mourinho and the TD managed to find these players.