The Mourinho Thread

[Chelsea? 892]

When I read this:

Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich continues to bankroll lavish spending despite the club's assertion it wants to build through its academy.

I hhave a hard time taking them serious.

Cause first of all this whole year Chelsea has sold to buy new players.

Then there's the fact that the club makes revenue.

Are the revenues and players being sold not enough that it still has to come out of Roman wallet?

Just very poor analysis to me it seems.

exactly. we havent made a signing since maybe Torres and Luiz where Roman had to probably finance the deal. we need to start getting credit for being the ONLY major club that gives any regard to FFP

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Abramovich's Absentee Academy

Chelsea have preached owner Roman Abramovich's desire to build through their youth academy, yet the club have spent more than 175 million pounds on first-team players in the past year. What gives? Mark Worrall »

http://www.espnfc.us/club/chelsea/363/blog/post/1954369/bright-chelsea-academy-yet-to-deliver

Article made me so mad! but we should just atleast force a youth player through

it will be bittersweet the day we do bring through a talent from the academy. they will be under a microscope by everyone else as they will be the first.. it will be a lot of pressure.

[Henrique 9,133]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2698182/Jose-Mourinho-believes-Premier-League-strongest-world-football.html

Mourinho is wrong about this one. I watched a Paul Braitner interview, where he said that PL, just like brazilian football, stop its development. He believes PL was the best league until 2009, but the teams stopped looking elsewhere.

PL is not the strongest in the world anymore, it still is my favorite league, but not the strongest. We just need to look at english clubs record in Europe in past seasons. Since 2009, when United were favorites, but lost to Barcelona, we only had english teams involved in 2 finals out of 5, in both finals those teams were underdogs: United got smashed by Barcelona in 2011, and Chelsea win in 2012 was a result of the heroic efforts from the players, and not a result of dominant football.

We just need to compare english top teams from past season with those ones from 2005 and 2009. Liverpool had some miserable seasons, and is only returning to UCL this season, but right now without their big star, we can't see them emulating Benitez team success. United is in decline since they let Ronaldo leave. They got weaker season after season. Even in 2013, their last successful season, their european campaign was embarrassing. City won 2 of the last 3 domestic league, but in Europe they are non-existent. Chelsea never managed to be as strongest as in the old days, 2 season ago the team was ou in the group stage.

PL can't attract the best players anymore, since 2009 PL lost the likes of Modric, Fabregas, Ronaldo, Tevez, Suarez, Bale. Fabregas is back, but he is back because his return to Barcelona never went according to the plan. Cavani, Falcao, Kroos, James Rodriguez, Guardiola, all those guys decided to go to another league (even Mourinho returned because his life in Spain was not exactly what he expected).

Well, do we have more competition in PL? Last season was an anomaly, PL usually is a two horse race, its Chelsea/United, Liverpool/Manchester, City/United, and in some season we know who is going to win in the half of it, like Manchester in 12/13, or Chelsea in 05/06, and even if that was the case, its the same argument some crazy people use to say brazilian league is the best in the world: in the start of the season we have up to 6 teams fighting for the trophy, while is Spain its always Real vs Barcelona...

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Measure a league in terms of entertainment value, nothing comes close to the EPL.

[Fernando 6,394]

Measure a league in terms of entertainment value, nothing comes close to the EPL.

Entertainment value?

Ehmmm Bundesliga is a heck of a lot of fun.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Entertainment value?

Ehmmm Bundesliga is a heck of a lot of fun.

How many games before the final match day was the title won?

Entertainment value in the sense that there are a lot of background stories behind a particular match. No other league offers that on a constant basis. Not to forget the anyone can beat anyone idea.

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2698182/Jose-Mourinho-believes-Premier-League-strongest-world-football.html

Mourinho is wrong about this one. I watched a Paul Braitner interview, where he said that PL, just like brazilian football, stop its development. He believes PL was the best league until 2009, but the teams stopped looking elsewhere.

PL is not the strongest in the world anymore, it still is my favorite league, but not the strongest. We just need to look at english clubs record in Europe in past seasons. Since 2009, when United were favorites, but lost to Barcelona, we only had english teams involved in 2 finals out of 5, in both finals those teams were underdogs: United got smashed by Barcelona in 2011, and Chelsea win in 2012 was a result of the heroic efforts from the players, and not a result of dominant football.

We just need to compare english top teams from past season with those ones from 2005 and 2009. Liverpool had some miserable seasons, and is only returning to UCL this season, but right now without their big star, we can't see them emulating Benitez team success. United is in decline since they let Ronaldo leave. They got weaker season after season. Even in 2013, their last successful season, their european campaign was embarrassing. City won 2 of the last 3 domestic league, but in Europe they are non-existent. Chelsea never managed to be as strongest as in the old days, 2 season ago the team was ou in the group stage.

PL can't attract the best players anymore, since 2009 PL lost the likes of Modric, Fabregas, Ronaldo, Tevez, Suarez, Bale. Fabregas is back, but he is back because his return to Barcelona never went according to the plan. Cavani, Falcao, Kroos, James Rodriguez, Guardiola, all those guys decided to go to another league (even Mourinho returned because his life in Spain was not exactly what he expected).

Well, do we have more competition in PL? Last season was an anomaly, PL usually is a two horse race, its Chelsea/United, Liverpool/Manchester, City/United, and in some season we know who is going to win in the half of it, like Manchester in 12/13, or Chelsea in 05/06, and even if that was the case, its the same argument some crazy people use to say brazilian league is the best in the world: in the start of the season we have up to 6 teams fighting for the trophy, while is Spain its always Real vs Barcelona...

Paul Breitner's word vs Mourinho's word haha. What if Dennis Rodman would tell you that the French basketball league is the best in the world? Would you quote him? Or Pete Rose would tell you that the Italian baseball league is the best in the world? Would you quote him, too?! Did you even read the whole article? Or did you stop after the title?

Mourinho is talking about the competitiveness part of this league, a thing we've already discussed during the Champions leg against Paris. All you do is compare English teams' performance in Europe.

EPL is the best league in the world because here you have at least four teams fighting for the title at the start of the season (Chelsea, City, United, Arsenal). Plus three other top teams in Liverpool, Tottenham and Everton.

Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham not winning a title in ages does not make the EPL a two-horse race.

La Liga = Madrid, Barcelona and Atletico in the last two or three years. Until then, it was a two-horse race. In France it was Lyon, now it's Paris. In Germany it was always Bayern de Munich and Borussia. Italy used to be a decent league, but now Juventus is winning titles for fun.

As I said, Jose was talking about the competitiveness part of the league:

1) Almeria, Elche, Rayo, Granada will loose 99/100 matches against Madrid and Barcelona

2) Nice, Guingamp, Evian, Reims will always loose against Paris and Monaco.

3) Freiburg, Frankfurt, Hannover will loose 99/100 matches against Bayern de Munich and Borussia.

4) Italy? Is there any decent team to fight against Juventus? Sassuolo, Chievo, Cagliari would even get trashed by Everton and Newcastle.

Now how about England? Teams like WBA, Villa, West Ham will always put up a fight against the big boys. None of this teams will loose 99/100 matches against Chelsea, City and United. That's why EPL is the best in the world and that's what Jose was talking about - it's not only about teams fighting for the title, it's about the other teams, too. You can go to Rayo and say Madrid will trash them, but you can't go to The Hawthorns and say Chelsea and City will be having a walk in the park.

2014/15 EPL - you have Chelsea, City, Arsenal with strong squads, Rodgers building a good team at Liverpool, United with Louis, Tottenham with a new coach, Everton with a decent squad.

2014/15 La Liga - Madrid and Barcelona with Football Manager squads and a weakened Atletico.

2014/15 Bundesliga - Bayern de Munich and Borussia.

2014/15 Serie A - Juventus and Roma (plus the chokers from Napoli).

2014/15 Ligue 1 - Paris. And Monaco? Will they put up a fight w/o James and Falcao?

Now tell me, what's the best league in the world? The two-horse race leagues in Spain, Germany, Italy and France, or the EPL?!

[Term-X 7,891]

(even Mourinho returned because his life in Spain was not exactly what he expected).

When Mourinho was sacked by Roman he said one day he would return to the PL, at Inter he said the same thing, in Spain too. So even though maybe he would have expected a longer stint at Real, a return to the Premier League was always on the cards.

[Dion 2,476]

He really didn't say anything about Fabregas. This is what's so sad about the British media. Mourinho said nothing bad but because it's him the clueless hacks create a non-story using sensationalist headlines. It's just a sad reflection of the football culture in Britain, most especially in England. The players are bang average. The pundits are completely clueless. They know nothing about European football when compared to their European counterparts. "If it didn't happen in the Premiership, it didn't happen" is the mentality. The coaches are dire and antiquated, emphasizing physicality and "passion" over technical and tactical skill. The big, bulky kid always get's an advantage over the smaller more skilled ones in youth set-ups. This among many reasons is why England only have one World Cup to show despite apparently being a "big" footballing nation.

For a moment I thought you were talking about current brazilian football and league.

[Fernando 6,394]

How many games before the final match day was the title won?

Entertainment value in the sense that there are a lot of background stories behind a particular match. No other league offers that on a constant basis. Not to forget the anyone can beat anyone idea.

Well last year la Liga was also entertaining going down to the wire.

So that "entertainment" value is there in a lot of league.

Hence your argument there is pretty weak.

[Jase 43,479]

Karanka: "Mourinho didn't divide Madrid"

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Well last year la Liga was also entertaining going down to the wire.

So that "entertainment" value is there in a lot of league.

Hence your argument there is pretty weak.

Wrong. I don't find that argument weak at all. No league comes even close to the entertainment value the EPL provides. As I said the background story, the drama etc. It's a huge theater. That's a pretty obvious fact.

La Liga went down to the wire with three teams for the first time. Roll on next season, we are going back to the same two teams. That's a weak argument.

[robsblubot 3,299]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2698182/Jose-Mourinho-believes-Premier-League-strongest-world-football.html

Mourinho is wrong about this one. I watched a Paul Braitner interview, where he said that PL, just like brazilian football, stop its development. He believes PL was the best league until 2009, but the teams stopped looking elsewhere.

PL is not the strongest in the world anymore, it still is my favorite league, but not the strongest. We just need to look at english clubs record in Europe in past seasons. Since 2009, when United were favorites, but lost to Barcelona, we only had english teams involved in 2 finals out of 5, in both finals those teams were underdogs: United got smashed by Barcelona in 2011, and Chelsea win in 2012 was a result of the heroic efforts from the players, and not a result of dominant football.

We just need to compare english top teams from past season with those ones from 2005 and 2009. Liverpool had some miserable seasons, and is only returning to UCL this season, but right now without their big star, we can't see them emulating Benitez team success. United is in decline since they let Ronaldo leave. They got weaker season after season. Even in 2013, their last successful season, their european campaign was embarrassing. City won 2 of the last 3 domestic league, but in Europe they are non-existent. Chelsea never managed to be as strongest as in the old days, 2 season ago the team was ou in the group stage.

PL can't attract the best players anymore, since 2009 PL lost the likes of Modric, Fabregas, Ronaldo, Tevez, Suarez, Bale. Fabregas is back, but he is back because his return to Barcelona never went according to the plan. Cavani, Falcao, Kroos, James Rodriguez, Guardiola, all those guys decided to go to another league (even Mourinho returned because his life in Spain was not exactly what he expected).

Well, do we have more competition in PL? Last season was an anomaly, PL usually is a two horse race, its Chelsea/United, Liverpool/Manchester, City/United, and in some season we know who is going to win in the half of it, like Manchester in 12/13, or Chelsea in 05/06, and even if that was the case, its the same argument some crazy people use to say brazilian league is the best in the world: in the start of the season we have up to 6 teams fighting for the trophy, while is Spain its always Real vs Barcelona...

I couldn't disagree more.

PL does not sign players, clubs do.

And the pool of resources (money) in the EPL is more equally divided than in the other leagues. You have 4 big clubs who sign top players, plus 1-2 clubs which can on occasion be competitive.

the PL is the best league for me because the money pool is more diluted, not despite of it. Look at Germany! It's a one club race! Where Dortmunt's best players leave for Bayern...

Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, with Atletico once in a blue moon. Italy would be the only league with more contenders, but they are in a terrible crisis.

No, the PL is indeed the best league in the world with the greatest concentration of top teams and quality players.

[Henrique 9,133]

Measure a league in terms of entertainment value, nothing comes close to the EPL.

Thats an opinion. In terms of entertainment value, nothing comes close to Brazilian league when title was decided in knockout stages...entertainment value is different from the strongest.

Paul Breitner's word vs Mourinho's word haha. What if Dennis Rodman would tell you that the French basketball league is the best in the world? Would you quote him? Or Pete Rose would tell you that the Italian baseball league is the best in the world? Would you quote him, too?! Did you even read the whole article? Or did you stop after the title?

Mourinho is talking about the competitiveness part of this league, a thing we've already discussed during the Champions leg against Paris. All you do is compare English teams' performance in Europe.

EPL is the best league in the world because here you have at least four teams fighting for the title at the start of the season (Chelsea, City, United, Arsenal). Plus three other top teams in Liverpool, Tottenham and Everton.

Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham not winning a title in ages does not make the EPL a two-horse race.

La Liga = Madrid, Barcelona and Atletico in the last two or three years. Until then, it was a two-horse race. In France it was Lyon, now it's Paris. In Germany it was always Bayern de Munich and Borussia. Italy used to be a decent league, but now Juventus is winning titles for fun.

As I said, Jose was talking about the competitiveness part of the league:

1) Almeria, Elche, Rayo, Granada will loose 99/100 matches against Madrid and Barcelona

2) Nice, Guingamp, Evian, Reims will always loose against Paris and Monaco.

3) Freiburg, Frankfurt, Hannover will loose 99/100 matches against Bayern de Munich and Borussia.

4) Italy? Is there any decent team to fight against Juventus? Sassuolo, Chievo, Cagliari would even get trashed by Everton and Newcastle.

Now how about England? Teams like WBA, Villa, West Ham will always put up a fight against the big boys. None of this teams will loose 99/100 matches against Chelsea, City and United. That's why EPL is the best in the world and that's what Jose was talking about - it's not only about teams fighting for the title, it's about the other teams, too. You can go to Rayo and say Madrid will trash them, but you can't go to The Hawthorns and say Chelsea and City will be having a walk in the park.

Now tell me, what's the best league in the world? The two-horse race leagues in Spain, Germany, Italy and France, or the EPL?!

1- This is not about Breitner vs Mourinho. Mourinho is a very good coach but he say a lot of nonsensical stuff, so if you are comparing Breitner to Rodman, you really don't what you are talking about. You are one of those guys if Mourinho comes up saying Hazard is better than Messi you would agree, because he is Mourinho.

2-Mourinho wasn't talking about the competitiveness, he was saying PL still is the strongest because he believes its the more competitive.

3- Villa, WBA, West Ham, years ago those teams would lose 90% of the matches against the likes of Chelsea and United. I don't know you were watching PL in 2005, but before the match we knew Chelsea would beat Everton, Villa, City...some people are saying those teams are getting stronger, while that might be true in some aspect, no one can deny the big boys are not as strong as they used to be, you just need to see how those teams are doing in Europe in last 5 years, its not a coincidence that the rest of PL started to look stronger in that period...

4- Well, in PL we have 4 teams fighting for the trophy before the season starts, it means they fight for the trophy in theory. This season would be again a 2 horse race. Perhaps Arsenal will "fight" for the trophy untill january, but again, last season was an anomaly, and we had 3, all the previous seasons the title was decided between two team,. Lets compare PL since 2004 with other leagues you mentioned:

04-14: PL had 4 differente winners: Arsenal, Chelsea, City and United.

04-14: La Liga had 4 different winners: Barcelona, Atletico, Real and Valencia.

04-14: Bundesliga had 5 different winners: Bayern, Borussia, Wolfsburg, Hamburg and Weder Bremen.

Yes, I'm using the english clubs record in Europe because its the best way to compare the strongest teams in Europe. PL does not have the strongest teams anymore, don't even have the best players anymore, in last 5 years, the PL clubs are spending big money for the likes of Lallana, Paulinho, Fellaini...

[Henrique 9,133]

I couldn't disagree more.

PL does not sign players, clubs do.

And the pool of resources (money) in the EPL is more equally divided than in the other leagues. You have 4 big clubs who sign top players, plus 1-2 clubs which can on occasion be competitive.

the PL is the best league for me because the money pool is more diluted, not despite of it. Look at German! It's a one club race! Where Dortmunt's best players leave for Bayern...

Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, with Atletico once in a blue moon. Italy would be the only league with more contenders, but they are in a terrible crisis.

No, the PL is indeed the best league in the world with the greatest concentration of top teams and quality players.

PL does no sign, but if the clubs can't sign the best players they are not playing in the league, you got what I mean, pointless argument.

About being the best, that an opinion, you can't measure which league is the best, for me PL is also the best, but definitely not the strongest.

About the greatest concentration of quality players, just check the top 30 players in the world at this moment and you will find few of them playing in PL.

[robsblubot 3,299]

PL does no sign, but if the clubs can't sign the best players they are not playing in the league, you got what I mean, pointless argument.

About being the best, that an opinion, you can't measure which league is the best, for me PL is also the best, but definitely not the strongest.

About the greatest concentration of quality players, just check the top 30 players in the world at this moment and you will find few of them playing in PL.

I don't think you got my point.

Think about a hypothetical world where London had a single top club and Manchester another; those two clubs would be really powerful and compete with real and bayern for the absolutely top players.

I don't disagree they have the edge right now, but that wasn't my point: there is really no other way with the number of clubs in London and Manchester.

I can't make a better point than this; for actual numbers and better reasoning check out soccernomic book.

[Fernando 6,394]

Wrong. I don't find that argument weak at all. No league comes even close to the entertainment value the EPL provides. As I said the background story, the drama etc. It's a huge theater. That's a pretty obvious fact.

La Liga went down to the wire with three teams for the first time. Roll on next season, we are going back to the same two teams. That's a weak argument.

Still weak, because I find other league as entertainment as well.

Now if you say you like the competitive teams relative to each other then I agree on that. There's like at least 7 good competitive teams more then in any other league, relative to each other.

That doesn't mean that all those 7 are the best in the world, but relative to each other they provide good competition.

So yes your argument of "entertainment" only is a very weak argument in itself cause anyone can say that this other league is entertainment.

Entertainment that's very vague.

What you find entertaining does not mean the same to me.

[Barbara 15,149]

At the end of the day, it's a subjective matter.

I don't think any league comes nearly close to EPL in quality and entertainment. Bundesliga doesn't attract me at all, I can't watch that, so when someone tells me that that league is fun, I'm dumbfounded - because that's my personal perception.

Italian used to be my fave, but that was literally decades ago. Spain has a good league, but the disparity between the big and the rest is so large, that is boring. Not that there isn't disparity in England, there is of course, even with the money better distributed, but there's so much history in some match-ups, and there's something in the atmosphere that there isn't elsewhere. The way the English support, the way they approach football, it's unique. Also because of the physicality of the game and the way it's played, how the game is approached, it gives a better chance for surprises.

And the European argument is null and void. The strongest the league, the less likely of teams from that league doing well in the European. Isn't that obvious such as 1+1=2? When Bayern can completely disregard their Bundesliga match ahead and after and important and difficult round in UCL, we have to face Liverpool, current top of the league - for example. Isn't it obvious that when you can't rest players because all matches are very tough and you have at least 4 title contenders in addition to 1 or 2 underdogs, you have to play your best team week in and out, many times twice a week? So for me the testament that EPL is the strongest league in the world is how their teams have to take turns in UCL - that when they go far either way. There's too much competitiveness domestically for them to dedicated themselves as much as others do from other countries because there's only so many times Real Madrid plays Barça and vice versa, so many times Bayern plays Dortmund. This is almost mathematical. If you have more competition at home, it means you can't rest and spare players domestically as teams from other leagues do ahead of their important UCL matches. It makes a whole difference, especially towards the end of the season when everyone is already tired.