The Mourinho Thread

[Barbara 15,149]

  On 25/05/2014 at 21:44, 1chelsea said:

this one reason I don't want real to win the champions league with Carlo first spell the stone thrown at Jose will speak move mountain

I think it's okay either way. Carlo accomplished something Mourinho didn't. That means nothing. Only one manager gets to win UCL in a season. Mourinho was close a few times, but he wasn't the only one not to lift it in the last few seasons.

I'm not criticizing Mourinho for not winning it, but I've been saying for a while he needs to add more options to his systems. Most changes Carlo did involved players that were already in RM when Mourinho was there. Mourinho really wasted Modric, who looked mediocre while Mou was there, overloaded Alonso, and it seems like he didn't use di María in the best way. I wasn't aware Angel played like that for Argentina as @Joker10 said. I only followed Belgium and Germany in the last couple of years in terms of NT. Not even Brazil NT I've watched except for two matches in the Confeds Cup.

Mourinho is too loyal to his convictions and systems which is a good thing, but he needs to spread his vision a bit. His style needs some minor adjustments and he needs to offer more offensively. I think that's where he's lacking a bit, how to organize effectively the attack (although clearly his main issue at RM in addition to the dressing room, was the midfield). With us I feel like we have a good set up for the midfield, but I said a lot of times at the beginning of the season I think our squad is more suited to a 4-3-3 than a 4-2-3-1, but he won't let the 4-2-3-1 go. So either he signs the players to make that happen or he has to move to a 4-3-3. It's just some small adjustments, I'm not complaining about Mourinho. He had a season to evaluate Chelsea and English football (neither are the same from the last time he was here) and now he has to make his move.

Some managers are more suitable for some certain kind of squads. Mourinho seems to want to make a lot of changes in Chelsea despite his speech of needing only 2-3 clinical signings. Letting go of Mata, Luiz, Cole and probably Lamps (I think at this point it's 50/50 and the board and Mou may be waiting for the WC to decide if Lamps will be replaced or not by another B2B player) means he's starting from scratch. I think there are big chances of Courtois coming next season already although all the rumors right now state he'll stay at Atleti till 2015. So either he signs the players to make a 4-2-3-1 effective or he adapts to the 4-3-3 the squad is better suited for.

We could have a midfield with Matic-Oscar-Willian or Matic-Ramires-Oscar/Willian followed by Hazard and one between Schurrle or Salah with a striker ahead of them as it works infinitely better than any 4-2-3-1 set up with the players we currently have. I think Oscar and Willian working side by side ahead, as B2B players against weaker sides and replacing either of them for Ramires (bleh) against strongest sides would be ideal. We've been way too defensive, which is okay because we weren't ready to be more offensive, but it definitely has to change next season. We don't need to be as cautious as we've been especially against small/medium sides. Willian showed he can handle EPL's physicality - something that worried me - and Oscar can play well in a 4-3-3 (but I don't think he can do it in the pivot in a 4-2-3-1), as he does for Brazil, although Brazil has two pivot players behind him... for some matches we could have Matic and Ramires, but for many others Wills and Oscar is more than enough to handle opposition's midfield and still give us versatility, vertical transition and quality pass. Then of course, we'll rely in Hazard even more to be creative while the other wing with either Schurrle or Salah will be basically about pace and verticality. Oscar can be Lamps of the old in a 4-3-3 imo, but can't in a 4-2-3-1. Mourinho has to figure out what he'll do with it. I hope he watches tons of Brazil matches and realize how effective Oscar is playing as the third man in the midfield, but I'm not sure he'll let go of his 4-2-3-1 fixation. In case he keeps the 4-2-3-1 I think Hazard could be moved to #10 with Willian in one wing and one between Schurrle and Salah in the other. Then there's no effective place for Oscar in the team other than being Hazard replacement - and we've seen Mourinho plans to play Eden all matches. Oscar doesn't offer much in the wing and he struggled playing #10 in a 4-2-3-1.

[Rom2013 446]

  On 26/05/2014 at 05:45, nowhereman said:

Lol, the fanboyism is strong with this one. So what happened when Mourinho was given squads much better than Porto's and Inter's at Chelsea and Real, let me spell it out for you, 6 CL semis, 0 win, zilch, nada, naught, 1 cup and 1 copa with hundreds of millions of dollars spent in 3 years. The truth is, Jose is sort of a one trick pony, albeit he's extremely good at this trick. If he can't park the bus and has to play attacking football, his team will struggle. For this reason, he has been and will succeed at teams aiming to upset the established order like Chelsea (his first stint), Inter, Porto, etc. but he has been and will fail at teams which are expected to play with dignity and flair like Real.

What hundreds of millions were spent by Mourinho in Madrid?

Mourinho in 2010 spent 83M£, in 2011 53M£ and finally in 2012 30M£. Here you have your hundreds of millions.

"Pellegrini" spent in 2009 230M£, and "Ancelotti" spent 150M£ in 2013.

Teams that spent more than Mourinho in that 3 years:

Manchester City

2012 55M£

2011 85M£

2010 85M£

Chelsea

2012 101M£

2011 91M£

2010 111M£

PSG

2012 131M£

2011 93M£

And I think many would be really surprised to see, how Real Madrid spend almost the same money as Barcelona and Bayern for example in that period.

And obviously Madrid had a great players before Mourinho, had great players with Mourinho, and have great players now.

[Chelsea? 892]

  On 26/05/2014 at 08:38, The Skipper said:

https://twitter.com/Mourinhoesque/status/470811452639809536

we lost the title because we didn't really have a striker.

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 26/05/2014 at 05:45, nowhereman said:

Lol, the fanboyism is strong with this one. So what happened when Mourinho was given squads much better than Porto's and Inter's at Chelsea and Real, let me spell it out for you, 6 CL semis, 0 win, zilch, nada, naught, 1 cup and 1 copa with hundreds of millions of dollars spent in 3 years. The truth is, Jose is sort of a one trick pony, albeit he's extremely good at this trick. If he can't park the bus and has to play attacking football, his team will struggle. For this reason, he has been and will succeed at teams aiming to upset the established order like Chelsea (his first stint), Inter, Porto, etc. but he has been and will fail at teams which are expected to play with dignity and flair like Real.

Real Madrid scored a record number of goals in 2012 under Mourinho. You're not talking much sense.

[Tomo 21,741]

I love how the media have even managed to brainwash even a section off our own supporters with this bus parking bollox, it's truly unbelievable.

The games in question mainly were Old Trafford, The Emirates, The Calederon, Anfield. The first two we approached with the tactic Fergie use to employ a lot in big away games, try and win but also be mindful that a draw away at a title rival (or in United's case who we thought would be one) isn't the end off the world. The latter two we were severly weakened and heading to the home's off the 2 most in form team's in Europe, any one who doesn't go defensive under those circumstances is an idiot and would get the hammering their stupidity deserves (Wenger at Anfield and The Bridge).

Sometimes it's like people don't have their own unique opinions and are just copying and pasting from the daily star website or John Cross's twitter account.

[Styles 9,790]

  On 26/05/2014 at 15:57, Barbara said:

Mourinho is too loyal to his convictions and systems which is a good thing, but he needs to spread his vision a bit. His style needs some minor adjustments and he needs to offer more offensively. I think that's where he's lacking a bit, how to organize effectively the attack (although clearly his main issue at RM in addition to the dressing room, was the midfield). With us I feel like we have a good set up for the midfield, but I said a lot of times at the beginning of the season I think our squad is more suited to a 4-3-3 than a 4-2-3-1, but he won't let the 4-2-3-1 go. So either he signs the players to make that happen or he has to move to a 4-3-3. It's just some small adjustments, I'm not complaining about Mourinho. He had a season to evaluate Chelsea and English football (neither are the same from the last time he was here) and now he has to make his move.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

It is no doubt important to defend with 8 at the very least(important matches anyways), 4-2-3-1 implies a more complicated and less natural defensive scheme for attackers. 4-3-3 is prob the most fashionable formation atm as you have 3 midfielders which is one more that 4-2-3-1 while one of the three forwards can help from a little to alot depending on opponent.

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 27/05/2014 at 16:31, Zinedine Iniesco said:

It is no doubt important to defend with 8 at the very least(important matches anyways), 4-2-3-1 implies a more complicated and less natural defensive scheme for attackers. 4-3-3 is prob the most fashionable formation atm as you have 3 midfielders which is one more that 4-2-3-1 while one of the three forwards can help from a little to alot depending on opponent.

The 4-2-3-1 isn't as rigid as you're trying to make it sound. Someone like Oscar can easily drop off to alter the shape into a true 4-3-3.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

The 4-4-2 was destroyed by Jose when he came to England. Brought his 4-3-3, stuck an extra man in midfield and we dominated. I actually think that there could be a change next season, and we might move away from the 4-2-3-1.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

  On 27/05/2014 at 16:50, The Skipper said:

The 4-2-3-1 isn't as rigid as you're trying to make it sound. Someone like Oscar can easily drop off to alter the shape into a true 4-3-3.

I think one of the reasons Jose has stuck with the 4-2-3-1 is because you can have a more attacking counter setup, my point being that with a 4-3-3 you always have three midfielders, you have more midfield tools to pass, block, intercept, etc, with the 4-2-3-1 yes you can drop off but that also comes with a bit of a connotation that, that is not their main purpose, which is different with a 4-3-3. With 4-2-3-1 you can arguably notice the lack of forward tracking, something that was seen from hazard against atletico for example.

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 27/05/2014 at 16:53, hjperdeath said:

The 4-4-2 was destroyed by Jose when he came to England. Brought his 4-3-3, stuck an extra man in midfield and we dominated. I actually think that there could be a change next season, and we might move away from the 4-2-3-1.

Change to what? Problem is, not a lot of teams genuinely play a rigid 4-4-2 anymore.

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 27/05/2014 at 16:58, Zinedine Iniesco said:

I think one of the reasons Jose has stuck with the 4-2-3-1 is because you can have a more attacking counter setup, my point being that with a 4-3-3 you always have three midfielders, you have more midfield tools to pass, block, intercept, etc, with the 4-2-3-1 yes you can drop off but that also comes with a bit of a connotation that, that is not their main purpose, which is different with a 4-3-3. With 4-2-3-1 you can arguably notice the lack of forward tracking, something that was seen from hazard against atletico for example.

Atletico game isn't really a good example considering we played more of the 4-3-3 you're describing (like we do in most of the bigger games anyway).

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

  On 27/05/2014 at 17:03, The Skipper said:

Atletico game isn't really a good example considering we played more of the 4-3-3 you're describing (like we do in most of the bigger games anyway).

Not really when it comes to tasks. 4-3-3's how i see them have specific tasks for much of the game. A drop off doesn't mean true 4-3-3 at all.

A midfielder in Hazard's place would have probably tracked the run. Defense was also quite stretched, to have an attacker defend a diagonal like that is a bit of a stretch.

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 27/05/2014 at 17:11, Zinedine Iniesco said:

Not really when it comes to tasks. 4-3-3's how i see them have specific tasks for much of the game. A drop off doesn't mean true 4-3-3 at all.

A midfielder in Hazard's place would have probably tracked the run. Defense was also quite stretched, to have an attacker defend a diagonal like that is a bit of a stretch.

Fair enough - but tasks/roles are different from formations set. You can still deploy a more defensive 4-2-3-1, it really just depends on the role you give your players.

I'd still argue that that formation against Atletico was a 4-3-3.

[Rom2013 446]

FOr me what makes the true difference between the 4-3-3 are the players not the way we play. If you have a Matic, Ramires and Oscar no matter how they play this is a 4-2-3-1, if we play with Lampard (OScar out) it would be a 4-3-3.

If you have players that are no.10's you won't play in 4-3-3 because for that you need players like Lampard, Gerrard, Schweinsteiger, VIdal. Players less offensive, but a lot more complete than a true number 10 like Oscar, Kaka, Ozil, etc.

That will depend on the quality of players, but in football we have more great players similar to Oscar, than similar to Lampard.

[Barbara 15,149]

  On 27/05/2014 at 17:31, Rom2013 said:

FOr me what makes the true difference between the 4-3-3 are the players not the way we play. If you have a Matic, Ramires and Oscar no matter how they play this is a 4-2-3-1, if we play with Lampard (OScar out) it would be a 4-3-3.

If you have players that are no.10's you won't play in 4-3-3 because for that you need players like Lampard, Gerrard, Schweinsteiger, VIdal. Players less offensive, but a lot more complete than a true number 10 like Oscar, Kaka, Ozil, etc.

That will depend on the quality of players, but in football we have more great players similar to Oscar, than similar to Lampard.

mate, Oscar excels in Brazil NT's 4-3-3... I don't know what you're talking about when you say he makes the system a 4-2-3-1. He's much more suited for a 4-3-3 than for a 4-2-3-1 at this point in his development curve.

[Rom2013 446]

  On 27/05/2014 at 17:49, Barbara said:

mate, Oscar excels in Brazil NT's 4-3-3... I don't know what you're talking about when you say he makes the system a 4-2-3-1. He's much more suited for a 4-3-3 than for a 4-2-3-1 at this point in his development curve.

Brazil plays exactly the same way Portugal did for more than 10 years (including with Scolari, right now is a little different because we don't have Deco anymore), the same way Chelsea does it, or last year Madrid. A 4-2-3-1 with Oscar as number 10.

It's something different from what right now Portugal do with Moutinho, or Spain with Inista and Xavi when Alonso is not in the field. That's a 4-3-3. Not Brazil.

[Fernando 6,534]

  On 26/05/2014 at 21:36, Tomo said:

I love how the media have even managed to brainwash even a section off our own supporters with this bus parking bollox, it's truly unbelievable.

The games in question mainly were Old Trafford, The Emirates, The Calederon, Anfield. The first two we approached with the tactic Fergie use to employ a lot in big away games, try and win but also be mindful that a draw away at a title rival (or in United's case who we thought would be one) isn't the end off the world. The latter two we were severly weakened and heading to the home's off the 2 most in form team's in Europe, any one who doesn't go defensive under those circumstances is an idiot and would get the hammering their stupidity deserves (Wenger at Anfield and The Bridge).

Sometimes it's like people don't have their own unique opinions and are just copying and pasting from the daily star website or John Cross's twitter account.

We did play some attacking futbol, but after the Sunderlan defeat in the Capital One we revert to a more defensive mind approach (coincidentally this is when Oscar disappear as well).

In fact Mounrinho said this, that he had to change that style to a less pragmatic approach in order to secure top 4.

I wonder, will we be struggling again to qualify for top 4 this season if he goes to what he was trying at the beginning of the season?