The Mourinho Thread

[robsblubot 3,595]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised about this, but have you noticed the lack of coverage by any media outlet on Jose's SkySports post-game interview? Aside from his digs at Redknapp and Gullit, no-one's actually paid attention to that interview.

It was so insightful for the fans and anyone else that if someone wrote a half-decent article with quotes from that interview, a lot of people in modern football would think "oh, this makes sense, now I understand what Mourinho is trying to do".. Alas no. He's ignored, and the Mata rhetoric continues.

I was indeed a very insightful interview and at the same time disappointing. He's essentially saying that change will come very slow and we are prob going back to the boring (and old) counter-attacking football for the foreseeable future.

Which is surprising because Roman was quoted saying he wanted a different style at some point.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I was indeed a very insightful interview and at the same time disappointing. He's essentially saying that change will come very slow and we are prob going back to the boring (and old) counter-attacking football for the foreseeable future.

Which is surprising because Roman was quoted saying he wanted a different style at some point.

Where was that Roman quote?..

And yea I can see how that might come across, especially on the evidence of how we played against Fulham & Everton. But I don't think that's the actual strategy he's trying to implement, I think that's how it's going to start. We're going to go to that against teams that will put all 11 behind the ball when we're in possession and hopefully the end goal will be that expansive, fast tempo game we all crave.

[TrippingStep 336]

I'm not belittling Benitez, I was one of very few people defending him last season and I even wrote an article explaining how he had done a good job regardless if we won the EL or made top 4 (and got crucified for it).

I'm not disagree with any of what you are saying, but all those were a quick-fix for certain areas and certain situations but not an overall system. And even those enhancements were based on individual player skills. For example, our entire plan to get the ball from defense to attack when the other team is not in transition was based on Azpi's ability on the ball. If he was not playing, or the opposition decide to mark him, we had to rely on Luiz's under 10% accuracy long balls. Even in the defense, Rafa improved some aspects like you said by having the wingers track back and we actually started defending in midfield rather than on the edge of our own box like we did under RDM. But it was all still depending on individual player ability to defend in certain situations and we did not have a clear tactical system in our defending. Did we look to press high and overrun the opposition in midfield? Did we look to retrieve the ball by forcing the opposition to the flanks? Did we look pack the box and win the ball deep? I personally didn't see any of that.

I'm not blaming Benitez for any of that. He was asked for immediate success and he delivered. Plus he had no time on the training ground to implement a new system. Instead, he tried to improve certain aspects, and he also worked on improving the players individually which was beneficial not for last season alone but will certainly help us this season and the ones to come. But the point I was making that what Jose is trying to do now is more complicated and if it took Rafa two months to implement have his mark on the team, Jose should get the same at the very least.

Whether or not Rafa would have done well this season is a completely different debate and a hypothetical one that I honestly see no point in going into at the moment since we have more than enough real problems to discuss

Thank you, for that valuable contribution to the discussion

I understand what you are saying. For me we had a system where depending on the oppositions, he would decide on the trap-zone, where to press.

Against Wigan, we decided to trap them on the midfield line, blocking the side of the pitch, putting numbers on the side and centrally and they were unable to switch sides and we were countering them at will.

Against West Ham, it was Hazard Mata working in tandem quite deep in front of their midfield, initiating the play, breaking their midifeld lines.

Against Steaua on the return, Hazard stayed near the side lines and was only moving inside when he had drawn two three opposing midfield.

And the fact that Lampard and Ramires had good opportunies to shoot, run from deep and and the second ball, it was because the movement of the forward and the three behind were causing lot of problems for their defense.

It would have been even better if we had proper holding midfielders that were more calm and could keep the ball to play a rest game in possession to kill the games off.

We had a general system, the build-up from the back was methodical, a gameplan with the "wingers" cutting inside or not and when.

Ok he relied on individual capabilities to execute it but it's the same with all sports. In Basket for example, if you had players with not good ability, it would mess the system, the timing of screens, blocks, backdoor drive.

[Barbara 15,149]

I don't disagree with him being calm and pragmatic in the team talks especially in a 'bad moment' like this but don't quite like the idea he has been playing at of managing a young squad. We only have a few young players in Schurrle, Hazard, Oscar, De Bruyne and Van Ginkel in the squad. The rest are mostly experienced and senior players and yet he seem to be constantly banging about like he's managing a squad with every player being U23.

but where resides most of our problems? Where do we complain more often? At least my most frequent complaints lies in the AM... where we are 100% U23. Eto'o and Torres can only be blamed so much if there aren't exactly too many chances created for them. And even if he decides to complain with them. It's clearly a physical problem for one and a technical problem for the other. Mourinho can try to peel them alive, it won't change because it isn't an attitude problem whereas with our AM it could be.

Also the more he speaks, the more I'm convinced that's the biggest problem he actually has with Hazard.

[1chelsea 864]

Some days I wish Some of our fans are ostrich so They could just shove their head in the ground an hide! Their stupid thoughts !!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[bababoom 4,478]

So whats this new philosophy Jose's trying to implement? are we going to try and play possession football, counter attacking, etc?

[1chelsea 864]

Jose sure do know how to silence our noisy neighbors

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[robsblubot 3,595]

Where was that Roman quote?..

And yea I can see how that might come across, especially on the evidence of how we played against Fulham & Everton. But I don't think that's the actual strategy he's trying to implement, I think that's how it's going to start. We're going to go to that against teams that will put all 11 behind the ball when we're in possession and hopefully the end goal will be that expansive, fast tempo game we all crave.

That was quoted ad nauseam at the time of AVB. AVB was hired to implement a different style of football, which he began by benching players who wouldn't work in his system; essentially the same thing Mourinho is doing now.

[Eidur the Spider 4,515]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1783936-juan-mata-will-be-a-better-player-for-jose-mourinhos-rough-treatment-at-chelsea

Interesting article from Guillem Balague about Juan Mata and Mourinho. Comparing his treatment to how Arda Turan was treated in the beginning by Simeone but now both he and the team are improved.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I understand what you are saying. For me we had a system where depending on the oppositions, he would decide on the trap-zone, where to press.

Against Wigan, we decided to trap them on the midfield line, blocking the side of the pitch, putting numbers on the side and centrally and they were unable to switch sides and we were countering them at will.

Against West Ham, it was Hazard Mata working in tandem quite deep in front of their midfield, initiating the play, breaking their midifeld lines.

Against Steaua on the return, Hazard stayed near the side lines and was only moving inside when he had drawn two three opposing midfield.

And the fact that Lampard and Ramires had good opportunies to shoot, run from deep and and the second ball, it was because the movement of the forward and the three behind were causing lot of problems for their defense.

It would have been even better if we had proper holding midfielders that were more calm and could keep the ball to play a rest game in possession to kill the games off.

We had a general system, the build-up from the back was methodical, a gameplan with the "wingers" cutting inside or not and when.

Ok he relied on individual capabilities to execute it but it's the same with all sports. In Basket for example, if you had players with not good ability, it would mess the system, the timing of screens, blocks, backdoor drive.

I honestly don't disagree with any of that (except the bolded part). But you do see how that differs from a whole footballing philosophy that Jose is trying to build, right? I'm not saying that Jose is better, because there can't be a comparison between Jose and Rafa here because the two situations cannot be compared. But I guess the point of discussion here is that I believe that we could not have continued with the same Benitez "tactics" we had last season because they did not define the club or the way we wanted to play (and because it was too reliant on individual players). What we need, and what the the club obviously wants is a new philosophy like the one we installed back in 2004 and that has stayed with the club for 8 years despite all the players that have come and go.

As for the bolded part, I wholeheartedly disagree. The movement of the front three was not better last season but the players found more players for a couple of reasons. First, the reason I already touched on, and that is that teams did not play as defensive against us last season as they are now. Just look at how Basel played against us last season as compared to last Wednesday. The other is that part of the philosophy that Jose is trying to implement is playing possession football high up the pitch which means that the opposition will be condensed in the their third making spaces for harder to find without proper movement, movement that we have yet to perfect. While last season most of the possession we had was in our own half and with the back four which meant that the opposition players were spread out over two thirds of the pitch instead of one; meaning there was bound to be more space.

[Tomo 21,751]

I don't think Moyes is that type of manager to force a player out of his favoured position. Mata will be an CAM if he was at United. Why are we discussing this????

and coming to the Spanish giants, If he can make the starting 11 at the Spanish side, he sure as hell make the first team at both Barca and Madrid.

Have you seen Moyes's team selections this season? He is ignoring players like Kagawa, Nani and Zaha for on off form Valencia, a 40 year old Giggs, a below average Welbeck and dreadful Young.

Atleast we are playing a top player while Mata is not playing, what Moyes is doing with those for-mentioned players is borderline criminal.

[Special Juan 28,146]

United need to get back to out and out wingers. They spent nigh on all summer chasing a midfield player, and rightly so but the identity the have lost is what has been their trademark for years.......chalk on the boots wingers. Valencia has been shoved at right back, and let's be honest he was one of those players selected against us he always gave us a rough ride, he's a clever player but only as a right winger, not RB.

It's just too central for united right now.....Carrick, Fellaini, Cleverley and Rooney are all squeezed in to one area with no outlet.

[Jase 43,479]

but where resides most of our problems? Where do we complain more often? At least my most frequent complaints lies in the AM... where we are 100% U23. Eto'o and Torres can only be blamed so much if there aren't exactly too many chances created for them. And even if he decides to complain with them. It's clearly a physical problem for one and a technical problem for the other. Mourinho can try to peel them alive, it won't change because it isn't an attitude problem whereas with our AM it could be.

Also the more he speaks, the more I'm convinced that's the biggest problem he actually has with Hazard.

Not talking specifically about the AMs there, just so happens all our young players in the first team are playing in the AM positions and hence why I cited them.

It's just that when things seem to go wrong lately, Mourinho will say he's managing a different profile of players now, he has a set of young players in the team and has to do things a tad more subtle and all that. He just seem to be using that as an excuse be it for his own mistakes or others. Just take his post-match comments after we lost to Basel. He said this squad doesn't have the maturity and doesn't seem to know how to react to pressure. The only actual young players in the starting XI were Van Ginkel, Oscar and Hazard and the rest were all senior and experienced campaigners. How can they, collectively suddenly just lack maturity and lack of the know-how to react to pressure when there were 8 senior players? If the whole squad was filled with like U23 or even U25 players, then I can understand that but at the moment, he has only like 4-5 young players in the team and he's suddenly using the weaknesses, if you can call it that, of those young players to generalize the whole issue with the team right now.

[standup 28]

I am not saying sack Mourinho now. I am saying if Mata say he wants to leave, then give Mourinho the choice. Play Mata or leave. If he still does not want to use one of the best players in Premier League, then he can go.

Great idea. So if Mourinho decided to do that then what authority would he have over the team? And if he doesn't then you'd have the problem of hiring yet another manager. Mourinho's a proven winner and some people on here should have more faith.

[Henrique 9,133]

Mourinho is a very smart guy. After a match he use many word to describe his plans, so after a poor game like the one against Fulham you end up thinking the dreadful performance was indeed the result of a awesome tactical plan.

[Barbara 15,149]

Not talking specifically about the AMs there, just so happens all our young players in the first team are playing in the AM positions and hence why I cited them.

It's just that when things seem to go wrong lately, Mourinho will say he's managing a different profile of players now, he has a set of young players in the team and has to do things a tad more subtle and all that. He just seem to be using that as an excuse be it for his own mistakes or others. Just take his post-match comments after we lost to Basel. He said this squad doesn't have the maturity and doesn't seem to know how to react to pressure. The only actual young players in the starting XI were Van Ginkel, Oscar and Hazard and the rest were all senior and experienced campaigners. How can they, collectively suddenly just lack maturity and lack of the know-how to react to pressure when there were 8 senior players? If the whole squad was filled with like U23 or even U25 players, then I can understand that but at the moment, he has only like 4-5 young players in the team and he's suddenly using the weaknesses, if you can call it that, of those young players to generalize the whole issue with the team right now.

I believe he was harsh on them after the Everton game and look how well that worked for the Basel game. He said he realized it after he tried to be harder on them, so I don't think he's making excuses - especially because we see him being VERY harsh on Luiz and Mata.

I'm not fool that believes 100% of what he says, but it's his nature to be a pusher, to demand improvement, to be harsh if he needs to. I've seen it so many times before, I have no doubt he would be pressuring them more if he felt like they wouldn't crumble. What's the point of pressure if instead of improving they get worse?

He's handling them differently I have no doubt. He used the media to work with two of them, he doesn't have complaints about Petr, Iva, Lamps, Terry and Ramires. I don't know about Cole, Cahill, Mikel... He said that Eto'o and Torres are working hard - and he knows a striker doesn't need pressure, but confidence to tug the ball in the net. I'm sure he's dealing with some of them in a more harsher way than the rest, but he won't collectively put pressure on them...

I don't know why people now question every frigging little thing Mourinho does. As a Madridista I'll tell you what, I'm ashamed of Chelsea fans. This lot is turning out to be worse than the lot in Madrid and it took them more than 2 seasons to start being some SOB's about Mou. But the 'all-supportive' 'we-want-Mourinho-more-than-anything' Chelsea fans are showing their true colors with two months. I'm not necessarily talking about you Jay, but since the Mata gate what you read more in this forum is how people don't trust what Mourinho is doing about everything. Ones complain about Mata, others about how he deals with the press, others about the youngsters, others about the veterans, others about the formation, others say he's sentimentalist, others say he isn't the kind of manager to work this profile, others admit they thought Mourinho was done and then with a small change in the behavior during half time against Fulham they say they're back in the ship, others this, others that. It's one thing do disagree about certain practical actions, but people here are showing clearly they simply don't trust Mourinho at all. Some are very outspoken about it, very open, others are more subtle, but I'm really disappointed and I hope the fans that actually go to the Bridge, the ones that Mourinho has a closer perception aren't such [insert words that are better left unsaid], unfair and impatient. I'll take a break from this thread because it's too much shit in one place.

[standup 28]

I believe he was harsh on them after the Everton game and look how well that worked for the Basel game. He said he realized it after he tried to be harder on them, so I don't think he's making excuses - especially because we see him being VERY harsh on Luiz and Mata.

I'm not fool that believes 100% of what he says, but it's his nature to be a pusher, to demand improvement, to be harsh if he needs to. I've seen it so many times before, I have no doubt he would be pressuring them more if he felt like they wouldn't crumble. What's the point of pressure if instead of improving they get worse?

He's handling them differently I have no doubt. He used the media to work with two of them, he doesn't have complaints about Petr, Iva, Lamps, Terry and Ramires. I don't know about Cole, Cahill, Mikel... He said that Eto'o and Torres are working hard - and he knows a striker doesn't need pressure, but confidence to tug the ball in the net. I'm sure he's dealing with some of them in a more harsher way than the rest, but he won't collectively put pressure on them...

I don't know why people now question every frigging little thing Mourinho does. As a Madridista I'll tell you what, I'm ashamed of Chelsea fans. This lot is turning out to be worse than the lot in Madrid and it took them more than 2 seasons to start being some SOB's about Mou. But the 'all-supportive' 'we-want-Mourinho-more-than-anything' Chelsea fans are showing their true colors with two months. I'm not necessarily talking about you Jay, but since the Mata gate what you read more in this forum is how people don't trust what Mourinho is doing about everything. Ones complain about Mata, others about how he deals with the press, others about the youngsters, others about the veterans, others about the formation, others say he's sentimentalist, others say he isn't the kind of manager to work this profile, others admit they thought Mourinho was done and then with a small change in the behavior during half time against Fulham they say they're back in the ship, others this, others that. It's one thing do disagree about certain practical actions, but people here are showing clearly they simply don't trust Mourinho at all. Some are very outspoken about it, very open, others are more subtle, but I'm really disappointed and I hope the fans that actually go to the Bridge, the ones that Mourinho has a closer perception aren't such [insert words that are better left unsaid], unfair and impatient. I'll take a break from this thread because it's too much shit in one place.

Well said. Luckily the people who sit around me and that I meet before the game are all behind Jose. It's very important to get behind the team as last season the atmosphere was very toxic with Benitez in charge. I was very anti Benitez myself but never during the game where you have to get behind the team.

[didierforever 7,349]

ohh... i am gonna have so much fun rubbing it in the faces of some of the jack-asses here when mou makes us a world-class team.

[Styles 9,790]

Mourinho is a very smart guy. After a match he use many word to describe his plans, so after a poor game like the one against Fulham you end up thinking the dreadful performance was indeed the result of a awesome tactical plan.

Dreadful performance? Hmm.

When a team like Fulham defends so deep and with all 11 players how are you supposed to look good exactly? Their sole tactic was to stop us from playing. Fulham and many other teams know we'd wipe the floor with them if they ever tried to play an open game against us. Everton - who have been the most dominant possession team in the league - conceded possession and played counter-attack against us at their own ground. They had been averaging more than 65% in their previous games but had just 43% against us.

We are going to play maybe 3 or 4 teams in the league all season that don't employ those tactics. Every other game will be against teams who defend deep and with 11 players. It's very difficult to break teams down and you rarely look good doing so.

Mourinho's interview was good because he explained his thought process, something which is rare from most managers. Nothing he said changed my view of the game because I'm not easily swayed.

[zolayes 14,489]

Have you seen Moyes's team selections this season? He is ignoring players like Kagawa, Nani and Zaha for on off form Valencia, a 40 year old Giggs, a below average Welbeck and dreadful Young.

Atleast we are playing a top player while Mata is not playing, what Moyes is doing with those for-mentioned players is borderline criminal.

Agree in Moyes we Trust keep it going Ginger