The Mourinho Thread

[zolayes 14,489]

He was talking about Eden.

oops sorry I thought he was taking about the team performance

[Essien19 1,415]

I put it in this thread, because i think in the de Bruyne thread i would have been crucified.

i wa discussing this with TOMO and he said the same thing about mata, so probably the problem is the way i am putting things. i am not saying we should have played mata as a DLP. i am saying that mata as a no.10 is a way better player than cesc as a no.10. cesc was bought mainly to give some creativity to us. but i would rather have a defensively liable no.10 than a defensively liable DLP. for eg costa hazard mata willian matic rakitic/schneiderlein/kondogbia/imbula/any CM is a way more balanced and creative team than costa hazard oscar willian matic cesc. having a defensively poor no.10 is acceptable but having a defensively poor DLP and then having the no.10 to cover for him is just suicidal. and yes, cesc did have a massive hand in helping us win the PL, but thats exactly what it was. short term thinking. 28 year old regressing player bought who does nothing but mainly de-stabilize every team he has been a part of, was simply a very poor decision by jose. and its showing.

Mata was a great player at Chelsea, but not under Mourinho.
At first you will say it's Mouinho's fault, but at United he couldn't perform either, at least for quite some time.
Even nowadays he's very inconsistent and that's not only because of different tasks, Van Gaal also doesn't rate him that highly.
The departure of Mata was the right thing to do, sadly (imo).

Back in the day Mata was a great number 10, better than Cesc is nowadays. I have to agree with you.
Your understanding of the abilites one player should have as a number 10, 8 or 6 is quite right imo.

For me 28 years of age aren't too old, i think a midfielder has to perform till his mid thirties, at least i expected it from Fabregas.
Boy, was i wrong, lol.

But claiming that buying a 28 year old player is short-term thinking is for me over the top.

Has Fabregas really de-stabilize every team he has ever played for?
Do you think that he made Arsenal weaker during his spell?
I don't think so, but if it's your opinion, so be it.

After the sell of David Luiz, a guy like Javi Martinez should have been bought, i don't think that Mourinho would have been against it.
It's like the member Oscar on here said, we never ever replaced David Luiz, that's the big problem.

people say ramires has been mooching off off us and living on his 11-12 performances. i say oscar has been living on one juventus game. i am sorry, but i never got the hype surrounding oscar. a bang average player who could do a "job". thats it. that juventus was a brilliant one and gave people some wrong ideas about his "potential". oscar has not regressed. he is the same old oscar. he can score an odd goal here and there, run around and thats pretty much it. there was a time when he used to put in tackles, thats one place where i would say he has regressed. his performance last year against newcastle was pretty much how he normally plays. poor. poor for the whole half, then by willian's intelligence in taking a quick corner, oscar gets a tap-in, and then people show his "stats". the same performance was given by him against tel-aviv and pretty much most of the time he plays for us. and then people try to give stupid excuses, the best one of which was "HE HAS NOT HAD A PRE-SEASON". i mean, what the actual fuck? even our own manager thought oscar's glaring technical limitations and issues would be resolved by a pre-season. laughable. anyways, for me there are no more IFs regarding oscar. he is an average player who needs to go and we need an upgrade. we had mata and kdb, but we lost those 2 cos our manager stupidly put all his eggs in oscar's basket.

After participating in a pre-season Oscar would become a better -and more consistent player, i never ever bought the hype,
yes hoped for, but that's it.

I often questioned his abilities, but mate, claiming he is bang average is a bit over the line i think.

A fully fit and in the right mood Oscar is a very good player imo; he is all over the pitch, quite intelligent whether with or off the ball,
he has got vision, knows to pass and his shooting ability is fuckin' great.
Thanks to some incomprehensible reasons he can't do it consistently what is a real shame.

Maybe at the end of the season it's better to part ways, for Chelsea and for Oscar, because something is holding him back,
elsewhere he can live up to his potential and i wish him that, he's not doing this shit on purpose, can't believe it.

massively disagree. look at our squad when jose came in AMs - mata, oscar, hazard, willian, kdb, schurrle, moses defenders - JT, GC, luiz, iva, azpi, cole, bertrand. even now look at some of our players on loan - moses, salah, cuadrado, christensen, pasalic, mvg. and then there was the likes of luis, lukaku. if we had got stones, i can bet that zouma would have been our 4th choice CB. thats jose for u. "if he had a say". he did have a say. all of this was his own say. jose has said time and again that he simply likes a small squad. a small squad can work for a season or 2, after which they simply go over the line. thats what has happened to a lot of our players. jose does not know how to rotate the squad and keep them happy. how can you expect to keep the likes of kdb and mata happy on the bench in a world cup year. how can you keep lukaku happy when you start schurrle at OLD TRAFFORD as a striker. 90% of the things are jose's fault. he can say "i did not want to sell the players but i wont keep a player who wants to leave". well, they want to leave because of his poor selections and rotations.

I feel a lot of anger towards Mourinho and i think for some of the things you can held him responsible.

I have read a lot about this imagination of playing Lukaku, De Bruyne, Luiz, Betrand and some of the goners.
Maybe there would have been some massacres, but consistently?
We never know, maybe, maybe not.

Before Mourinho's second spell, Chelsea was playing offensively, "mazacar" destroyed some teams,
but the league was out of reach.
Mourinho changed some things, the team has been a lot more compact till this season and guys like Matic or Willian have been added to the team, these dudes aren't that bad, are they?

Terry and Cahill haven't been up for the required standard this season, that's clear, so a possible combination of Zouma and Stones could have happened. You never know.
Maybe Stones would have played as a right back instead of Ivanovic, in my view that would have been a lot better.

Jose likes having a rather small squad, but filled with good players who can play in more than one position.
I think 2-3 players should have been added, Mourinho himself said he gave his letter of recommendation to the board early after the Championship last season.

Yes, i think he only wanted top-notch guys like Pogba, Stones and Griezmann, here we could have an endless discussion,

whether one should wait or go for a lower class (no disrespect meant).

Is Jose Mourinho really that incompetent when we're speaking about his rotation abilities?
How did he manage the Benzema and Higuain situation at Real Madrid?
I agree with you that Mourinho should have used a guy like Filipe Luis more often, but i'm sorry, it isn't always been this way.

Long story short: i agree with you that Jose made some mistakes, but for me that's human.
Every Chelsea manager in the past was far from perfect, failures are what makes you human.

I have read that Granovskaia speaks highly of Jose Mourinho in front of Abramovich, she knows that the blame has to be shared within the club.

We have to agree to disagree on some points, others we can agree on.
Could have been worse, friend.

[zolayes 14,489]

@essien .. I do really respect your passion and loyalty to Jose ,, sadly it is misplaced IMO and in the opinion of many others ,In terms of players he has made NOT

one mistake but many TOO many to be acceptable . I wont list them as I have often listed them already /

KTF BUT keep a sense of realism as well

[Henrique 9,133]

Easily the best performance of the season. Jose deserves credits for trying something unusual, playing with the so called false 9. The team looked solid in the defense, but still looked dangerous going forward.

To other side at this point I'm pretty convinced the the team won't get a top 4 finish and at the end of the day that was a pretty bad result.

[LAM09 6,554]

Made a change and it had a positive impact. Would keep it the same against Bournemouth

[Henrique 9,133]

To other side when you just think this team won the league last season and the manager is supposed to be the best ever, its really strange when you are happy to get a 0-0 result against Spurts after parking the bus for most part of the game.

[LAM09 6,554]

To other side when you just think this team won the league last season and the manager is supposed to be the best ever, its really strange when you are happy to get a 0-0 result against Spurts after parking the bus for most part of the game.

I don't think anyone's happy with the result, but with the performance. We were the better side IMO. Also, don't forget they are the inform team.

[Henrique 9,133]

I don't think anyone's happy with the result, but with the performance. We were the better side IMO. Also, don't forget they are the inform team.

Indeed, considering the circunstances that was a good result and I really the performance, but when the fact we are in this kind of "circunstances" speaks loud about how bad this season actually is.

[Muzchap 8,966]

I just don't see how we 'were' the better team?

The Spuds created more clear cut chances and were in control of the game.

The minute Mason went off they looked poor, if he'd stayed on, they might have got something from the game.

Yes we looked better than our previous games, but that's not saying much is it?

I just don't see a turnaround it's a tiny evolution, not a revolution.

We definitely should have signed Klopp - that will be a huge mistake

[stroey 2,525]

Harry Redknapp: Jose Mourinho finally found the keys to the Chelsea bus in Spurs stalemate

At Spurs you could see they are starting to look more like the Chelsea of old: solid, organised, very hard to beat. The keys have been found to the bus. Nemanja Matic, who was so important to them last season when they won the title, an absolute powerhouse, really does appear to be coming back. When Matic is on song, Chelsea have that core stability.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/12023794/.html

Great read

[kmk108 1,186]

I just don't see how we 'were' the better team?

The Spuds created more clear cut chances and were in control of the game.

The minute Mason went off they looked poor, if he'd stayed on, they might have got something from the game.

Yes we looked better than our previous games, but that's not saying much is it?

I just don't see a turnaround it's a tiny evolution, not a revolution.

We definitely should have signed Klopp - that will be a huge mistake

You won't get a revolution. You'll get more tiny evolutions. 40%-50%-60%-70%-80% and so on until everything is back to form. We'll start seeing a loss turn into a draw and a draw turning into a win here and there, until we're back to seeing the regular wins.

[Tomo 21,681]

I just don't see how we 'were' the better team?

The Spuds created more clear cut chances and were in control of the game.

The minute Mason went off they looked poor, if he'd stayed on, they might have got something from the game.

Yes we looked better than our previous games, but that's not saying much is it?

I just don't see a turnaround it's a tiny evolution, not a revolution.

We definitely should have signed Klopp - that will be a huge mistake

There's a difference between controlling possession and controlling the game.

Spurs showed no urgency to counter attack whatsoever, we did.

[Muzchap 8,966]

There's a difference between controlling possession and controlling the game.

Spurs showed no urgency to counter attack whatsoever, we did.

Spurs counter attack?

For them to 'counter attack' that would require us to 'attack'

They were attacking and we were trying to counter. 11 men behind the ball whenever Spurs had it.

I guess I just see the game differently and if this is called 'progress' then I'm devastated as we are truly in a dark place.

[Muzchap 8,966]

You won't get a revolution. You'll get more tiny evolutions. 40%-50%-60%-70%-80% and so on until everything is back to form. We'll start seeing a loss turn into a draw and a draw turning into a win here and there, until we're back to seeing the regular wins.

Yeah that's my point and how long will that take? 1 year?, 2 years? More?

So we're basically back in 'transition'

Great - looking forward to the remainder of the season....

[Adnane 1,101]

Yeah that's my point and how long will that take? 1 year?, 2 years? More?

A few weeks/months.

We are already harder to beat and collecting clean sheets on the road, we are two-three weeks late in our recovery schedule as we had a couple of unfortunate games ( Stoke, West Ham ), but we're getting there in a really important phase.

As José said, wouldn't be surprised to see the team unbeaten in the next 10 if we are as solid as yesterday.

In our next 5, we have 3 home PL games, Bournemouth, Sunderland and Watford, 1 away PL game at Leicester and 1 tie breaker at home against Porto, I think this serie could do wonders to our confidence.

[Adnane 1,101]

And Thibaut is back, he should help us organize our defense better, and pull off a few miracle saves here and there to boost us.

I, personnally, wouldn't be surprised to see us challenging for the title in the last 5 or 6 games, it looks crazy but it isn't if we recover our normal form ( which we are ), given that all the big teams are dropping points.

[didierforever 7,349]

Mata was a great player at Chelsea, but not under Mourinho.

At first you will say it's Mouinho's fault, but at United he couldn't perform either, at least for quite some time.

Even nowadays he's very inconsistent and that's not only because of different tasks, Van Gaal also doesn't rate him that highly.

The departure of Mata was the right thing to do, sadly (imo).

Back in the day Mata was a great number 10, better than Cesc is nowadays. I have to agree with you.

Your understanding of the abilites one player should have as a number 10, 8 or 6 is quite right imo.

For me 28 years of age aren't too old, i think a midfielder has to perform till his mid thirties, at least i expected it from Fabregas.

Boy, was i wrong, lol.

But claiming that buying a 28 year old player is short-term thinking is for me over the top.

Has Fabregas really de-stabilize every team he has ever played for?

Do you think that he made Arsenal weaker during his spell?

I don't think so, but if it's your opinion, so be it.

After the sell of David Luiz, a guy like Javi Martinez should have been bought, i don't think that Mourinho would have been against it.

It's like the member Oscar on here said, we never ever replaced David Luiz, that's the big problem.

mata was not a great player under jose cos he was played as a RW. mata never got the protection of matic. my first impression when matic was bought was "awesome, now jose can play mata without worrying about his no.10 having to be "defensive"".

but we went out and sold him, instead. THAT is a thing that will always be my biggest problem.

maybe i am biased but yes, i think cesc does a brilliant job of de-stabilizing teams. that arsenal team was a joke defensively. look at barca with cesc in his 3 years and look at them now. look at us.

totally agree about this. luiz as a midfielder needed to be replaced. replacing a big game defensive midfielder and a massive character with literally no one was also a massive mistake.

After participating in a pre-season Oscar would become a better -and more consistent player, i never ever bought the hype,

yes hoped for, but that's it.

I often questioned his abilities, but mate, claiming he is bang average is a bit over the line i think.

A fully fit and in the right mood Oscar is a very good player imo; he is all over the pitch, quite intelligent whether with or off the ball,

he has got vision, knows to pass and his shooting ability is fuckin' great.

Thanks to some incomprehensible reasons he can't do it consistently what is a real shame.

Maybe at the end of the season it's better to part ways, for Chelsea and for Oscar, because something is holding him back,

elsewhere he can live up to his potential and i wish him that, he's not doing this shit on purpose, can't believe it.

how often does that happen? even hatim ben arfa plays a couple of world class games in a season. just like yesterday's performance, i just dont see how exactly would we lose anything if we sold oscar and replaced him with RLC/musonda. what exactly does he brings or did he ever bring to the team that people thought he was a world class potential talent?

also, i can agree to many things but i will never agree to oscar's passing. almost as bad as rambo. his only saving grace is that he can score goals and that he USED to tackle around. last time i saw him put in his trade mark oscar-ish tackle was well, i dont know. i cant go that further back in time.

not saying he is doing it on purpose. simply think, he is just is not that good.

I feel a lot of anger towards Mourinho and i think for some of the things you can held him responsible.

I have read a lot about this imagination of playing Lukaku, De Bruyne, Luiz, Betrand and some of the goners.

Maybe there would have been some massacres, but consistently?

We never know, maybe, maybe not.

Before Mourinho's second spell, Chelsea was playing offensively, "mazacar" destroyed some teams,

but the league was out of reach.

Mourinho changed some things, the team has been a lot more compact till this season and guys like Matic or Willian have been added to the team, these dudes aren't that bad, are they?

Terry and Cahill haven't been up for the required standard this season, that's clear, so a possible combination of Zouma and Stones could have happened. You never know.

Maybe Stones would have played as a right back instead of Ivanovic, in my view that would have been a lot better.

Jose likes having a rather small squad, but filled with good players who can play in more than one position.

I think 2-3 players should have been added, Mourinho himself said he gave his letter of recommendation to the board early after the Championship last season.

Yes, i think he only wanted top-notch guys like Pogba, Stones and Griezmann, here we could have an endless discussion,

whether one should wait or go for a lower class (no disrespect meant).

Is Jose Mourinho really that incompetent when we're speaking about his rotation abilities?

How did he manage the Benzema and Higuain situation at Real Madrid?

I agree with you that Mourinho should have used a guy like Filipe Luis more often, but i'm sorry, it isn't always been this way.

Long story short: i agree with you that Jose made some mistakes, but for me that's human.

Every Chelsea manager in the past was far from perfect, failures are what makes you human.

I have read that Granovskaia speaks highly of Jose Mourinho in front of Abramovich, she knows that the blame has to be shared within the club.

We have to agree to disagree on some points, others we can agree on.

Could have been worse, friend.

i dont think its "imagination". its not just one person we are talking about. its not just mata or kdb. lets look at the list of players that have left us simply cause of playing time:

mata, kdb, lukaku, bertrand, salah, luis. look at what he is doing to remy. it cant always be the other person's fault. i would rather blame one person than think alll the other 8-10 players are the wrong party.

fair enough on the benzema-higuain point, but in his 2 and half years here, his rotation has been dreadful. absolutely shocking. infact that rotation is the key reason why we have lost some top players.

i dont think greizemann was even on our list. we needed a RW (pedro). antoine is a second striker/striker. would not have made any sense.

i did not want stones cause i still think there is no way jose would have dropped GC and JT. my suspicions were confirmed with the way he handled the ivanovic situation.

also, who is to blame for the stones situation. who made the deal public? who called everton "a small club" and made everton dig in their heels and tell us to get lost. now, i dont think we can get stones for even 50mil. but i still think stones was not necessary.

as for pogba/CM, here i have to say that we dropped the ball. anyone remotely related to the club knew we needed a midfielder. an upgrade to mikel and ramires or atleast one of them. a player who can easily replace cesc for big games. why did not we go for cabaye/schneiderlein/wanyama/imbula/kondogbia. i mean the amount of options available in this window were immense and we missed out on all of them.

[Tomo 21,681]

Spurs counter attack?

For them to 'counter attack' that would require us to 'attack'

They were attacking and we were trying to counter. 11 men behind the ball whenever Spurs had it.

I guess I just see the game differently and if this is called 'progress' then I'm devastated as we are truly in a dark place.

They had numerous chances in the game to break at us with pace but blew it by slowing the game down and letting us reorganize, in fact they had a last second free kick and a great chance to ping it in the box and see what happens but what do they do? Pass it back to the defense.

We maybe could have been a little more adventurous given our position in the table, but let's not pretend Spurs were going all out to win this because they were just as happy with the point if not more.