The Mourinho Thread

[Fernando 6,590]

see this is something which i dont get.

you cant use 70mil along with citing kdb,salah etc too. if u want to cite kdb, salah etc then the better way of putting it is jose spent (32+27+11=70 mil minus mata=37, kdb=17, so net of 16mil, infact make it 12mil since schurrle was bought for 18 and sold for 22) and still has not solved the problem.

so jose has a net spend of 12 mil for one position for whom he simply has not been able to find a match winner

I think Real Madrid has done the same for the last two season. That even though they spend a lot it's less because net spend ain't as much since they sold players as well.

But people don't attribute it to Carlo but Florentino and his board....

[Muzchap 8,966]

see this is something which i dont get.

you cant use 70mil along with citing kdb,salah etc too. if u want to cite kdb, salah etc then the better way of putting it is jose spent (32+27+11=70 mil minus mata=37, kdb=17, so net of 16mil, infact make it 12mil since schurrle was bought for 18 and sold for 22) and still has not solved the problem.

so jose has a net spend of 12 mil for one position for whom he simply has not been able to find a match winner

Exactly !

And a smart man might say the reason RW is so problematic is because of a certain RB - where the RW needs to dedicate a lot of time to defensive duties. It took Hazard an exceptional talent a few years to adjust - so dropping in a quick fix won't work.

For me we either replace the current RB and play to the RW strengths - or wait patiently

I'm all for trying Azpi as RB and letting the RW play

That would give us so much more balance and threat - with the added bonus of destabilising the opposition defence - creating more room for everybody. At the minute it's double up on Hazard and mark Costa... With a true RW - the opposition defence would have all kinds of trouble

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

Not to mention the £70m+ José has spent on the one position, the RW, which is currently still not fixed... Also, with both KDB and Salah currently playing out of their socks (and Cuadrado currently resembling more of a stocking of shit by comparison), it is increasingly looking like José has made an absolute dogs dinner of this position in particular.

The thing is does Mourinho actually feel like the RW position needs fixing ? Based on his actions i'd say no.

We've seen Willian (and sometimes even Ramires) been giving the starting spot, on that RW, over more attacking players like Schurrle and Salah.

Also when we replaced Schurrle in the squad we didn't go for a goalscoring RW instead we went for a carbon copy of Willian. (different styles ofcourse but still similar)

A defensive minded RW with pace and high workrate.

The way i see it Mourinho seems happy with how our right side is set up and is going to continue playing that way next season.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

I think Real Madrid has done the same for the last two season. That even though they spend a lot it's less because net spend ain't as much since they sold players as well.

But people don't attribute it to Carlo but Florentino and his board....

Because Carlo or almost any Real manager that is not Jose don't get any say about signing. In theory they are not even 'manager' but merely 1st team coach, didn't he state numerous time last season he wanted to keep Di Maria and won't need anyone...etc.

[Tomo 21,751]

I don't follow your argument. I simply just read this sentence like 100 times, i still don't quite get how you rationalize PL>CL.

The league is like a marathon, the CL is more like a sprint. Usain Bolt is the fastest man in the world, but he would get destroyed by many pro marathon runners. Does that make marathon runners better then Bolt? Absloutely not.

CL is without a doubt the best competition, because it incorportes the best teams in europe. By default this makes it the best judgement for a team, because you won against the best in the world.

The best team usually does win the CL competition, because it is hard to say othewise. Just because the best team on paper didn't win it, doesn't mean the best team didn't win

That figure acutally contradicte your argument. You cannot argue that team had no talent and were weak, but that figure actually support that Mou inheritied a strong team. Mou spent a lot of money and he also sold a lot of talented players. By using that net spend, you are disguising the money Mou has spent.

I absloutely cannot believe this, Mou hasen't been given enough money to spend? That is bullcrap, i did a quick calculation we have spent almost 250m Euros since Mou took over. Almost every club is envious of how much money we have spent and also how good we have dealt our players in the transfer market. Mou spent 30m on Cuadrado, and he has been sparingly used. How many managers have the luxery of spending that much money on a squad player?

Sorry but I just don't get how that's contradictory, good but not world class players or even average can get sold for high prices (look at Southampton), our squad was basically a bunch players that fell into that category, who in that squad was serious top class material at that time? Cech that's about it, JT had a poor season and Hazard wasn't quite their at the time.

Jose obviously didn't negotiate the high prices, but he does deserve credit for turning us into title material on effectively a sell to buy model, Wenger got praised for keeping Arsenal in the top 4 doing that likewise Rafa Liverpool, Jose goes as step further and turns a top 4 challenging squad at best into title material with little net spend and barely even gets credit by his own supporters.

Also while we are on the subject of Arsenal, in 2013 us and Arse both scraped top 4 late on in the season, since then Jose has turned us into title with a £36m net spend while Arsensl have spent over £100m net and are no better than they were 2 years ago, poor Wenger hey, he can't compete because he has no money

What im about to say isn't aimed at you but I am just baffled why some people just won't say even the slightest bit of praise for the most successful manager in the history of this club, and worse some go out of their way to criticise him, it's just baffles me the lack of respect for a man that done so much for us and gave and is still giving us so many great times, let's say for argument sake Shankley was still alive and went back to manage Liverpool, could you imagine one single Liverpool fan saying anything close to the shit vybz kartel (previously Tinshe) amongst others say about Mourinho? He told him to go fuck himself before we were about to play a CUP FINAL, that for me is unacceptable.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Sorry but I just don't get how that's contradictory, good but not world class players or even average can get sold for high prices (look at Southampton), our squad was basically a bunch players that fell into that category, who in that squad was serious top class material at that time? Cech that's about it, JT had a poor season and Hazard wasn't quite their at the time.

Jose obviously didn't negotiate the high prices, but he does deserve credit for turning us into title material on effectively a sell to buy model, Wenger got praised for keeping Arsenal in the top 4 doing that likewise Rafa Liverpool, Jose goes as step further and turns a top 4 challenging squad at best into title material with little net spend and barely even gets credit by his own supporters.

Also while we are on the subject of Arsenal, in 2013 us and Arse both scraped top 4 late on in the season, since then Jose has turned us into title with a £36m net spend while Arsensl have spent over £100m net and are no better than they were 2 years ago, poor Wenger hey, he can't compete because he has no money

What im about to say isn't aimed at you but I am just baffled why some people just won't say even the slightest bit of praise for the most successful manager in the history of this club, and worse some go out of their way to criticise him, it's just baffles me the lack of respect for a man that done so much for us and gave and is still giving us so many great times, let's say for argument sake Shankley was still alive and went back to manage Liverpool, could you imagine one single Liverpool fan saying anything close to the shit vybz kartel (previously Tinshe) amongst others say about Mourinho? He told him to go fuck himself before we were about to play a CUP FINAL, that for me is unacceptable.

The real one that pains me is a Chelsea fan telling another that he's supporting Mourinho too much.

Someone said that to supporter the other day (saying he's a troll) and to someone else in the KDB thread. Like if an arsenal fan tells a Chelsea fan he is oversupporting Mourinho I'll understand the hatred, but not a Chelsea fan

[The Mak 4,459]

see this is something which i dont get.

you cant use 70mil along with citing kdb,salah etc too. if u want to cite kdb, salah etc then the better way of putting it is jose spent (32+27+11=70 mil minus mata=37, kdb=17, so net of 16mil, infact make it 12mil since schurrle was bought for 18 and sold for 22) and still has not solved the problem.

so jose has a net spend of 12 mil for one position for whom he simply has not been able to find a match winner

Eh, yes I can. It's still money being spent on one position. And if you want to bring net into it, it means absolutely nothing. He has spent money on the one position when efforts/money could have been focused elsewhere - like a CB. He used the Schurrle (a LW) money to buy a RW, leaving no natural cover for Hazard if he gets injured - I highlighted this before, this was a fucking massive risk. It could've potentially thrown away the title if it went tits up.

So, if anything, by bringing net into it through including the likes of Schurrle (who was for a different position), it accentuates how wrong José has got fixing the RW - he spent all that money and even weakened other areas of the pitch to get yet another player for the RW. This is without mentioning the fact he would rather recall Moses than spend 26m on Cuadrado...this note in particular leaves me with the gut feeling that Cuadrado will be a humungous, regrettable, expensive flop. But that's just my feeling, not that I want it to happen.

And I am citing KDB and Salah because they are clearly good players. Alright, Salah might need a particular system, but it is undeniable how good KDB can be - certainly better than any of our AMs, besides Hazard. If José wasn't so dogmatic about certain players, we could've had two world-class AMs, saving a ton of transfer hassle and prolonging our final product. These sales were not specifically like for like RW replacements anyway, as I will explain...

The thing is does Mourinho actually feel like the RW position needs fixing ? Based on his actions i'd say no.

We've seen Willian (and sometimes even Ramires) been giving the starting spot, on that RW, over more attacking players like Schurrle and Salah.

Also when we replaced Schurrle in the squad we didn't go for a goalscoring RW instead we went for a carbon copy of Willian. (different styles ofcourse but still similar)

A defensive minded RW with pace and high workrate.

The way i see it Mourinho seems happy with how our right side is set up and is going to continue playing that way next season.

If he is happy with the RW, then why has he spent so much on the one position in less than two years?! Why did he prefer to bring back Moses instead of go for Cuadrado? Simple questions and they have a simple answer - he has not got it right. Willian is more of a CAM, but because he has high acceleration and work rate he is farmed out on the wing, even though he slows down play and can't cross. José has decided that Moses, KDB (a CAM), Schurrle (a LW) and Salah are not right. Now Cuadrado is here and I already had my reservations about him, but if he wasn't José 1st choice then my confidence in him has absolutely plummeted.

Listen lads, I am not attacking José. I want him to stay and I want him to get it right. Saying that, he should not be exempt from criticism. In the same way that he got it absolutely spot on with Matic, Fabregas and Costa, he has made a fucking mess of the RW in my eyes.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,090]

The real one that pains me is a Chelsea fan telling another that he's supporting Mourinho too much.

Someone said that to supporter the other day (saying he's a troll) and to someone else in the KDB thread. Like if an arsenal fan tells a Chelsea fan he is oversupporting Mourinho I'll understand the hatred, but not a Chelsea fan

Tommy Docherty was in charge when I became a fan of this club and I've seen many men move through that office since. If the most I can do for Jose is to describe him as the best of the bunch, the number 1, then, in an effort to keep things in their proper proportion, I'd have to describe the next best (Hiddink) as number 5. Rubbish maths, but everybody gets what I mean.

We have a small squad containing many players with admirable qualities but too few of absolute quality.

We are top of the league.

Jose Mourinho.

We were better last season than we had been the one before that.

We are better again this season than we were during the previous one.

Jose Mourinho.

We will be better next season than we are this.

Jose Mourinho.

[Tomo 21,751]

The real one that pains me is a Chelsea fan telling another that he's supporting Mourinho too much.

Someone said that to supporter the other day (saying he's a troll) and to someone else in the KDB thread. Like if an arsenal fan tells a Chelsea fan he is oversupporting Mourinho I'll understand the hatred, but not a Chelsea fan

Not only that but some of those same people use to beat down criticism of Di Matteo by bringing up Munich likewise Ancelotti/double, yet back to back titles breaking almost every record in the book isn't enough

It's hilarious they can't even see their sheer hypocrisy.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,090]

Not only that but some of those same people use to beat down criticism of Di Matteo by bringing up Munich likewise Ancelotti/double, yet back to back titles breaking almost every record in the book isn't enough

It's hilarious they can't even see their sheer hypocrisy.

Carlo is a relevant example in my book. In my opinion he got lucky and benefited from a massive coincidence. A lot of our players just happened to fall into the form of their lives at the same time. For a few short months covering the second half of 09/10 and the first quarter of 10/11, a group of key performers were firing on all cylinders and powered us (just) to the double. Before and after that period however Carlo seemed little more than a bystander watching a train wreck, but powerless to stop it. I couldn't make my mind up if he was waiting for his luck to change or for his pay-off.

I simply don't believe Jose would have been so passive as our post-double season crashed and burned. While the sun shone on his team, Carlo basked in the light but when the dark times arrived he pulled no strings, changed no plans, made no difference. He was a complete non-factor. Not even Jose's biggest critics could ever say that about The Special One.

[zolayes 14,489]

Tommy Docherty was in charge when I became a fan of this club and I've seen many men move through that office since. If the most I can do for Jose is to describe him as the best of the bunch, the number 1, then, in an effort to keep things in their proper proportion, I'd have to describe the next best (Hiddink) as number 5. Rubbish maths, but everybody gets what I mean.

We have a small squad containing many players with admirable qualities but too few of absolute quality.

We are top of the league.

Jose Mourinho.

We were better last season than we had been the one before that.

We are better again this season than we were during the previous one.

Jose Mourinho.

We will be better next season than we are this.

Jose Mourinho.

YOU were about 6 when the Doc left .. I saw his babes and they played the Chelsea way

[lionsden 4,689]

Not only that but some of those same people use to beat down criticism of Di Matteo by bringing up Munich likewise Ancelotti/double, yet back to back titles breaking almost every record in the book isn't enough

It's hilarious they can't even see their sheer hypocrisy.

The real reason why Jose isn't popular with some is because of his nasty/insufferable attitude and excessive baggage and controversial behaviors which many deem down right unnecessary, repetitive and unprofessional. Never mind his broken promises and stubbornness. he even managed to lambast the fans who spend their valuable time and hard earned money to watch their team.

Carlo on the otherhand was/is a perfect gentleman who manages to achieve success throughout his career with minimal fuss and without the use of controversy as weapon/tool.

If jose was more tolerable and trustworthy, those who appear to be harsh on him would cut him the same slacks that are afforded to other managers like Di matteo and carlo and endear to him. So it's more of a character and personality issue. That's just my take on the issue. I could be wrong though as I can't speak for everyone.

[zolayes 14,489]

The real reason why Jose isn't popular with some is his attitude and excessive baggage and controversial behaviors which many deem down right unnecessary, repetitive and unprofessional. Never mind his broken promises and stubbornness.

Carlo on the otherhand was/is a perfect gentleman who manages to achieve success throughout his career with minimal fuss and without the use of controversy as weapon/tool.

If jose was more tolerable and trustworthy, those who appear to be harsh on him would cut him the same slacks that are afforded to other managers like Di matteo and carlo. That's just my take on the issue. I could be wrong though as I can't speak for everyone.

YOU have summed up perfectly MANY of my views ,, THANKS

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

If he is happy with the RW, then why has he spent so much on the one position in less than two years?! Why did he prefer to bring back Moses instead of go for Cuadrado? Simple questions and they have a simple answer - he has not got it right. Willian is more of a CAM, but because he has high acceleration and work rate he is farmed out on the wing, even though he slows down play and can't cross. José has decided that Moses, KDB (a CAM), Schurrle (a LW) and Salah are not right. Now Cuadrado is here and I already had my reservations about him, but if he wasn't José 1st choice then my confidence in him has absolutely plummeted.

Listen lads, I am not attacking José. I want him to stay and I want him to get it right. Saying that, he should not be exempt from criticism. In the same way that he got it absolutely spot on with Matic, Fabregas and Costa, he has made a fucking mess of the RW in my eyes.

Think you misunderstood me. I'm not defending Mourinho. I don't believe our right side is working but i just think that Mourinho believes it's working.

Why else would he buy Cuadrado ? I mean if he's not happy with our RW scoring and assisting so little why didn't he just go out and buy a high scoring RW ?

Instead he went for a 26 y old RW that has scored only 30 goals in his entire career (over 200 appearances).

The root of our right wing problem is Ivanovic. With him playing right back the primary job of our right winger isn't, try and score/assist, it's to provide defensive cover for Ivanovic.

As long as Mourinho choses to play Ivanovic our RW will continue to be a mess. Mourinho can throw as much money at it as he likes it just doesn't work but again i think he believes it does work and will continue to play like that.

[zolayes 14,489]

Think you misunderstood me. I'm not defending Mourinho. I don't believe our right side is working but i just think that Mourinho believes it's working.

Why else would he buy Cuadrado ? I mean if he's not happy with our RW scoring and assisting so little why didn't he just go out and buy a high scoring RW ?

Instead he went for a 26 y old RW that has scored only 30 goals in his entire career (over 200 appearances).

The root of our right wing problem is Ivanovic. With him playing right back the primary job of our right winger isn't, try and score/assist, it's to provide defensive cover for Ivanovic.

As long as Mourinho choses to play Ivanovic our RW will continue to be a mess. Mourinho can throw as much money at it as he likes it just doesn't work but again i think he believes it does work and will continue to play like that.

play azpi at rb and brana at rw

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

play azpi at rb and brana at rw

How about we play Azpi at RB and tell Brana the season ended early ?

[OhForAGreavsie 6,090]

YOU were about 6 when the Doc left .. I saw his babes and they played the Chelsea way

How d'you know?

The Doc would be number three on my list. I only saw one full match under his leadership, the 1967 Cup Final. (On telly.) I envy people who saw his team properly.

There was certainly no Kings Road swagger in evidence at Wembley that day. What Tommy Doc achieved for the club however, putting us back on the map after the post title slump, and re-establishing a club identity, should never be forgotten. For similar reasons, I rank Hoddle at number four in the list of my Chelsea managers.

[Joker10 946]

The League normally is won by the best team (or one of the best teams if they are similar) the CHampions League it's not as simple as that, for example in the past 11 seasons we have 4 underdogs winning the competition: Porto 2004 Liverpool 2005 Inter 2010 Chelsea 2012 And that happens because it's a cup like the FA Cup or any other cup. For example Portsmouth and Wigan also won the FA Cup but they wouldn't do it in the League in a million attempts. The Champions League is more important than the League, it's more unpredictable, there are always 8 great teams fighting for it, it's a cup and it's not the best way to measure the value of a team. Rea Madrid was horrible in some of their Champions League wins being 6th like Chelsea was in 2012.

There is a big difference between Wigan and the top teams, but the differnece between those CL winners you mentioned and the perceived best teams are very little. Porto, Liverpool, Inter, and Chelsea were all very capable teams they can beat anyone on any day and they did.

In the CL teams like Malmo, Maribor, APOEL, etc . Those team are the equivalent of Wigan, Portmouth, and Birminham, etc. No chance of winning the CL in any lifetime at their current level.

Also is the league format or CL format the best way to determine the best team? I don't think there is a best answer, it could be argued and argued. Here in the United States, all of the major sports: NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL decides the best team in a Playoff format(equivalent to CL). No Champion is ever crowned the best team in a regular season. So here in the states the belief is a playoff format is a much better way to determine a champion then a whole long season of competition. So it is about preference.

I personally think the best team in the PL does not win it all of the time, because you could lose to all of the best teams in the league but if you are better at beating the buttom feeders then you could become champion. Like last season we got the most points against the best team, but City won the league because they beat the worst teams better. Were they the better team?

So in conclusion i would say the league format and CL format, determines two very different best teams. Just like the marathan and sprinter example i used before, which is better? quite subjective.

As for your rest of your thread, are you arguing that Mou has not spent enough money?

Because i am honestly confused, i just cannot comprehind that. I am not sure what you are getting at?

I don't really mean to be rude at all and i hope you don't take it that way, i just don't undertand the point you are trying to make.

As for ManU they will be better next season, they can spend another 200m i still think they are another season away as a legit title contender. As long as us and City make a gradual improvement.

Hmm you say best teams in Europe and then the World? CL only covers Europe

But aside from that - fair points. But Spurs have spent big and are still shit. Spending <> Success - although it certainly helps

I completely agree, spending does not equate to success. Like you said it certainly helps, if you identify a need or a problem, it is much better to have the financial resources then lack it.

You are right you need to know how to utlize it.

[The Mak 4,459]

Think you misunderstood me. I'm not defending Mourinho. I don't believe our right side is working but i just think that Mourinho believes it's working.

Why else would he buy Cuadrado ? I mean if he's not happy with our RW scoring and assisting so little why didn't he just go out and buy a high scoring RW ?

Instead he went for a 26 y old RW that has scored only 30 goals in his entire career (over 200 appearances).

The root of our right wing problem is Ivanovic. With him playing right back the primary job of our right winger isn't, try and score/assist, it's to provide defensive cover for Ivanovic.

As long as Mourinho choses to play Ivanovic our RW will continue to be a mess. Mourinho can throw as much money at it as he likes it just doesn't work but again i think he believes it does work and will continue to play like that.

A misunderstanding is right, I totally agree with you!

[didierforever 7,349]

Eh, yes I can. It's still money being spent on one position. And if you want to bring net into it, it means absolutely nothing. He has spent money on the one position when efforts/money could have been focused elsewhere - like a CB. He used the Schurrle (a LW) money to buy a RW, leaving no natural cover for Hazard if he gets injured - I highlighted this before, this was a fucking massive risk. It could've potentially thrown away the title if it went tits up.

So, if anything, by bringing net into it through including the likes of Schurrle (who was for a different position), it accentuates how wrong José has got fixing the RW - he spent all that money and even weakened other areas of the pitch to get yet another player for the RW. This is without mentioning the fact he would rather recall Moses than spend 26m on Cuadrado...this note in particular leaves me with the gut feeling that Cuadrado will be a humungous, regrettable, expensive flop. But that's just my feeling, not that I want it to happen.

And I am citing KDB and Salah because they are clearly good players. Alright, Salah might need a particular system, but it is undeniable how good KDB can be - certainly better than any of our AMs, besides Hazard. If José wasn't so dogmatic about certain players, we could've had two world-class AMs, saving a ton of transfer hassle and prolonging our final product. These sales were not specifically like for like RW replacements anyway, as I will explain...

i am happy for you if u can make sense of it cos honestly i cant.

we bought willian after having mata, schurrle as winger options cos jose was not happy with what we had. and then we sold mata. similarly, we bought salah cos we sold mata and kdb. we bought cuadrado, cos we sold schurrle. "spending" is not an independent event. atleast not in this case scenario. also, how many matches did schurlle play as a LW and how many as a RW, cos as far as i remember, most of his starts have been as a sub. schurrle was not a RW for us. its like saying willian is a CAM for us just cos thats his main position.