The Mourinho Thread

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Capital One Cup maybe?

To what end though? That's basically 5 games? And I bet you more than anything, when it gets to the QF/SF and Final we'll play the first XI because its "silverware" lmao.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

It's his third season now. the excuse for his lack of trust in youth was that we needed to break the 5 year league drought which he has already achieved and lack of stability. what will be the excuse this time if he once again ignore the youth?

I wish he never mentioned anything about youth last season or even in his first season. Those names he earmarked and gave all the rhetoric about breaking into the first team, giving them unreal expectations. The worst by far was when he said in the CL game how he'd play RLC and gave him 6 minutes from the end. Iirc it was a dead rubber too!!

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Cristiano does not drink because his father died from alcoholism right?

I've heard its because he gives blood every month isn't it? Also why he doesn't have tattoos, due to the risk of hepatitis

[Fernando 6,743]

It's his third season now. the excuse for his lack of trust in youth was that we needed to break the 5 year league drought which he has already achieved and lack of stability. what will be the excuse this time if he once again ignore the youth?

Well the third season just started.

Look at what time Zouma came to the fray last season?

So let's not be so quick to judge.

I really think between this season towards the 5 fith season is where we should see some progress....the word is should.

[stroey 2,525]

Well I think it's clear why Pedro choose us over United.

Is not like we are something great above United.

It has to do with lifestyle and management and Mourinho plays a big part of that.

One of the reason why United was so successful was not because of the "United" allure, but because of SAF.

Same can be said of Mourinho.

It would be great for once if he stays for us beyond 5 years, but I'm having reservation. His way of handling things at times can be chaotic, but if the club is willing to turn a deaf ear to such things and see the value this manager brings, then long term can be a possibility.

But all depends on how the hierarchy continue to act towards Mourinho shenanigans and weather his lack of youth integration means anything to them......

Have you spoken to the manager? What did he say?

He is one of the main reasons why I’m here. He phoned me a few times and said he needed me to make the team stronger.

He has won titles wherever he has been. I am really looking forward to playing under him and hopefully winning more titles.

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2015/08/first-words--pedro.html

[OhForAGreavsie 6,128]

It's his third season now. the excuse for his lack of trust in youth was that we needed to break the 5 year league drought which he has already achieved and lack of stability. what will be the excuse this time if he once again ignore the youth?

Lionsden, forgive me, you've probably explained this many times and I may even have read it somewhere along the way but, as I type, I can't remember why this issue is so important to you.

You, me and pretty much everyone else here would like to see Cobham graduates regularly starting for the first team, and we all know it is an avowed aim of the club and its manager to see this happen but it can only be a subsidiary aim surely. The key goal must remain to produce a Chelsea team which plays the way we'd like and which dominates on the pitch. If that dream comes to be then, even though I take more interest in the development squads than most, I'll be counting the trophies, not the number of Cobhamites involved.

Jose needs no excuses. Only if the kids show themselves to be good enough, will they get game time. That's the only route for them. I think the challenge for people who take your point of view is that, so far, not one Cobham product has gone on to show that level of ability elsewhere. In fact, so far, they've all gone on to prove the exact opposite.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,128]

To what end though? That's basically 5 games? And I bet you more than anything, when it gets to the QF/SF and Final we'll play the first XI because its "silverware" lmao.

If we reach that stage then we better play the top team. I'd be fuiming, not laughing, if we don't. It's a great characteristic of our club that if we're in it, then we aim to win it. We are not Arsenal.

[Laylabelle 9,754]

In a way it's good but in another be harsh to drop the players who would've played such a part getting us there.Though we do seem to go with a strong team from the start so they don't to often get a look in anyway which needs to change really.don't know if good enough if not given the chance to prove themselves in a first team game and for a few..not when they're off elsewhere all the time

[OhForAGreavsie 6,128]

In a way it's good but in another be harsh to drop the players who would've played such a part getting us there.Though we do seem to go with a strong team from the start so they don't to often get a look in anyway which needs to change really.don't know if good enough if not given the chance to prove themselves in a first team game and for a few..not when they're off elsewhere all the time

Obviously they must first do something that suggests they may be good enough. If, and only if, they are good enough then I think the best way for us to provide the right environment for youngsters to shine when given opportunities is to significantly strengthen the squad with senior players. I guess a lot of you will be ahead of me on this but just in case that statement sounds odd, let me say some more about what I mean.

For a club with our resources our squad is, and has been for a long time, woefully shallow in numbers and, particularly, in quality. As a result, our squad team is often a shambles. Youngsters thrown into that situation have no chance. Give a kid a good side to come into and he has a better platform to show what he can do. A stronger squad serves our purposes not only in pursuit of points, but in facilitating regular rotation to avoid player fatigue and in nursing youngsters through.

[Thendo 1,088]

Stability in the manargerial position is a good start to some academy kids eventually breaking through. Every manager has his own favourites among the youngsters, Ancelotti - Mceachran, Rafa - Ake etc, and Mourinho - RLC, possibly Solanke. Its a long process especially at a big club such as Chelsea with pressure to win titles every year and swapping manager, as some here are in/directly hinting at, would push back players like RLC's chances to make it even further Imo.

[Unionjack 7,532]

Only got 1 question.

Has anyone sent Mou Pogba,Griezman and Witsels phone numbers?

[lionsden 4,689]

Lionsden, forgive me, you've probably explained this many times and I may even have read it somewhere along the way but, as I type, I can't remember why this issue is so important to you.

You, me and pretty much everyone else here would like to see Cobham graduates regularly starting for the first team, and we all know it is an avowed aim of the club and its manager to see this happen but it can only be a subsidiary aim surely. The key goal must remain to produce a Chelsea team which plays the way we'd like and which dominates on the pitch. If that dream comes to be then, even though I take more interest in the development squads than most, I'll be counting the trophies, not the number of Cobhamites involved.

Firstly the term youth/youngsters in this context is not exclusive to "cobham graduates" It simply refers to any young player either fully homegrown or bought with the longterm vision in mind.

Why is it so important to me and others. I can't speak for others but for me personally there are a few reasons

1 This is by far the most talented crop of youngsters the club has had in the past couple of decades atleast (youngsters with broad meaning i,e players like Bamford, Traore, Pasalic et al are included) and the fears is that with the path we are headed, we are going to waste this huge opportunity and not take advantage of it by not fully integrating any of them into the first team. Players like Musonda and Boga do not grow on trees and most clubs will be extremely lucky to have them.

which brings me to point number 2 ensuring the development and promotion of these youngsters into the first team is very beneficial both financially and on the pitch. It's more resourceful and efficient to play players who are not only talented but have proven themselves at a decent level instead of wasting money on squad players who end up contributing very little to the first team. Players like Ake, Pasalic,Traore,Bamford have passed all the test thrown at them so far, must they jump through ring of fire before they are given the opportunity to prove themselves? opportunity that we have no problem giving to Cuadradro for example despite showing absolutely nothing to justify it. So

There is also the sentimental factor and a greater sense of accomplishment of producing homegrown players that go on to make a name for themselves (preferably at the club in this case)

Jose needs no excuses. Only if the kids show themselves to be good enough, will they get game time. That's the only route for them. I think the challenge for people who take your point of view is that, so far, not one Cobham product has gone on to show that level of ability elsewhere. In fact, so far, they've all gone on to prove the exact opposite.

But how are they going to achieve this< is it not by actually giving them opportunity in the first team to show that "they are good enough" Or do you expect them to show it on the bench? And those that have shown their qualities on loan don't get the opportunities either. Jose has no problem dishing out opportunities to players who have been in awful form for months like Ivanovic Cuadradro,falcao et al however.

I think the challenge for people who take your point of view is that, so far, not one Cobham product has gone on to show that level of ability elsewhere. In fact, so far, they've all gone on to prove the exact opposite.

Depends on your definition of Cobham product but Ryan bertrand by modern standard was a chelsea youth product (yeah he was bought from gillingham as a 16 yo) and he was regarded as the best left back in the league last season. ofcourse you could use the stricter criteria which would only include players that received all their youth training and education at the club to suite your argument.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Stability in the manargerial position is a good start to some academy kids eventually breaking through. Every manager has his own favourites among the youngsters, Ancelotti - Mceachran, Rafa - Ake etc, and Mourinho - RLC, possibly Solanke. Its a long process especially at a big club such as Chelsea with pressure to win titles every year and swapping manager, as some here are in/directly hinting at, would push back players like RLC's chances to make it even further Imo.

This I definitely agree with, especially about the 'favourites'.

But what I think irks most people on here I think is that, if those managers hadn't been fired then we'd have seen them breakthrough. But with Mourinho, even if he's here for as long as we say, there's still a lack of confidence in his ability to bring through young players. Ancelotti and Rafa (to a lesser extent), gave more exposure to these kids in their time than Mourinho has done in the same number of seasons.

What's also more annoying is when he talks in so much depth about them, but when push comes to shove he's seldom giving them opportunities. Again I bring it back to last season in the dead rubber game when everyone was relying on Mou's promise to give Loftus-Cheek minutes. The media went crazy, some even did some in depth articles on RLC's rise(!). But what happens? 6-7 minutes.

This season will be telling. Loftus-Cheek needs to be given some more meaningful minutes, not just 5 minutes from the final whistle to waste him.

[nullabletype 987]

Every manager has got flak for it, the tendency at this club doesn't change irrespective of who's in the dugout. The longer Mourinho stays and the more he merely pays lip service through grand promises, the more scrutiny he heaps on himself.

But the criticism now, and in this thread, is on the current manager.

In the last five or so years we've had five different managers. Carlo was binned after two years. Both AvB and Di Matteo barely got their foot in the door. Rafa was interim from day one and now we have José. It's a high pressure appointment that doesn't lend itself well to the nurturing of youth. Most have barely been given time to put together the first team never mind usher in a new generation of players.

Despite that, Chelsea have given many a youth player a punt. Take yourself off to Wikipedia and search each seasons article and you'll see a whole heap of U21 names in our squad lists who were given game time. There's quite a lot. Most of them never made it, but is that Chelsea's fault? I doubt it since the majority couldn't force themselves into or hold down a places during their various loan spells. Even the players who have went on to reasonable success wouldn't get in to our first team now.

Coaches aren't stupid, if these guys are good enough they will play.

José bringing scrutiny on himself? He says he'll bring them through if they can cut it. There you go. Complain if he doesn't and in three years time these young guys are superstars in some other team, not two games in to his third season.

People are getting down his throat now, third season back after a double, because we've had a few bad results. Common fan logic is "throw the kids on, at least they'll be up for it". Which would be fine, only enthusiasm and effort don't necessarily equal good results.

Edit: meant third season. Changed it.

[Stingray 9,441]

Firstly the term youth/youngsters in this context is not exclusive to "cobham graduates" It simply refers to any young player either fully homegrown or bought with the longterm vision in mind.

Why is it so important to me and others. I can't speak for others but for me personally there are a few reasons

1 This is by far the most talented crop of youngsters the club has had in the past couple of decades atleast (youngsters with broad meaning i,e players like Bamford, Traore, Pasalic et al are included) and the fears is that with the path we are headed, we are going to waste this huge opportunity and not take advantage of it by not fully integrating any of them into the first team. Players like Musonda and Boga do not grow on trees and most clubs will be extremely lucky to have them.

which brings me to point number 2 ensuring the development and promotion of these youngsters into the first team is very beneficial both financially and on the pitch. It's more resourceful and efficient to play players who are not only talented but have proven themselves at a decent level instead of wasting money on squad players who end up contributing very little to the first team. Players like Ake, Pasalic,Traore,Bamford have passed all the test thrown at them so far, must they jump through ring of fire before they are given the opportunity to prove themselves? opportunity that we have no problem giving to Cuadradro for example despite showing absolutely nothing to justify it. So

There is also the sentimental factor and a greater sense of accomplishment of producing homegrown players that go on to make a name for themselves (preferably at the club in this case)

But how are they going to achieve this< is it not by actually giving them opportunity in the first team to show that "they are good enough" Or do you expect them to show it on the bench? And those that have shown their qualities on loan don't get the opportunities either. Jose has no problem dishing out opportunities to players who have been in awful form for months like Ivanovic Cuadradro,falcao et al however.

Depends on your definition of Cobham product but Ryan bertrand by modern standard was a chelsea youth product (yeah he was bought from gillingham as a 16 yo) and he was regarded as the best left back in the league last season. ofcourse you could use the stricter criteria which would only include players that received all their youth training and education at the club to suite your argument.

Bump. This should be read and considered. Don't go to low on the modesty scale, guys.

[Yeboii 1,844]

Only got 1 question.

Has anyone sent Mou Pogba,Griezman and Witsels phone numbers?

Well he seems to get every one of his target's phone number so if he wanted them, he gets them lol!

[MihaiM24 156]

Only got 1 question.

Has anyone sent Mou Pogba,Griezman and Witsels phone numbers?

he has relations man If he wants he can call Mendes and get any players number

[Madmax 9,219]

But the criticism now, and in this thread, is on the current manager.

In the last five or so years we've had five different managers. Carlo was binned after two years. Both AvB and Di Matteo barely got their foot in the door. Rafa was interim from day one and now we have José. It's a high pressure appointment that doesn't lend itself well to the nurturing of youth. Most have barely been given time to put together the first team never mind usher in a new generation of players.

... Because he is the current manager? Why would he not be criticised? The problem with the 'stability and pressure' argument cop-out is that the goal posts keep getting shifted. 'AVB and Robbie didn't have enough time'. Others like Mourinho 'were under pressure'. There will always be excuses and at the end of the day everything but the lack of the managers' willingness will be blamed. It really isn't that hard to give someone say 700 minutes of football over 10 months. After all we've been happy enough to waste time with dross like Marin, Cuadrado, Benayoun, Torres, etc. Perhaps people like Boga, Musonda and Baker needed to cost 10 million pounds each to be afforded the same opportunities.

Despite that, Chelsea have given many a youth player a punt. Take yourself off to Wikipedia and search each seasons article and you'll see a whole heap of U21 names in our squad lists who were given game time. There's quite a lot. Most of them never made it, but is that Chelsea's fault? I doubt it since the majority couldn't force themselves into or hold down a places during their various loan spells. Even the players who have went on to reasonable success wouldn't get in to our first team now.

Coaches aren't stupid, if these guys are good enough they will play.

Wikipedia won't tell me what I already know - who actually was given serious game time except McEachran and Bertrand? Please don't count multi million pound signings like Zouma, Romeu, Lukaku and Sturridge because we're speaking of academy graduates. Certainly nobody by Mourinho himself, not even RLC after all that media hype. But of course, he was under pressure. I'll say this - say what you want about Carlo but mitigating circumstances or not, he did give chances to a few players - and not meaningless appearances like 2 minutes a season.

Again, coaches are stupid enough to persist with (take your pick here) so ... maybe it's a question of faith and not ability?

José bringing scrutiny on himself? He says he'll bring them through if they can cut it. There you go. Complain if he doesn't and in three years time these young guys are superstars in some other team, not two games in to his third season.

No, no, no.

This is Mourinho speaking in July 2013 about Chalobah :

We are thinking of letting him go on loan for a last season," said Mourinho. "That is our intention. He knows. We have discussed that with him. He is a very, very good player. I like him very much - very, very much. I am very impressed. For sure, a Chelsea player (in future), for sure. We think he is there. He could be in our squad already. But we think one more season and it will be his last one out on loan. We will see whether or not it is a Premier League club.

I don't even know which club Nat is at right now.

There were also words about how he'd blame himself if Brown, Baker and Solanke were not England players in 'a few years.' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2709249/Jose-Mourinho-says-Chelsea-kids-Lewis-Baker-Izzy-Brown-Dominic-Solanke-dont-play-England-blame-ME.html) More loan spells at Vitesse followed. Nowhere does he put riders like 'if they can cut it' - that's just Chelsea fans desperate to defend him no matter what.

People are getting down his throat now, third season back after a double, because we've had a few bad results. Common fan logic is "throw the kids on, at least they'll be up for it". Which would be fine, only enthusiasm and effort don't necessarily equal good results.

You're misdirecting the 'bad results' thing ... regular members here know I've defended Mourinho more than most, so for me the criticism in regards to lack of youth integration is solely that, not linked to anything else.

[Polo7 3,496]

Grass is always greener on the other side. Sums up our fans greatly.

[Reddish-Blue 2,701]

... Because he is the current manager? Why would he not be criticised? The problem with the 'stability and pressure' argument cop-out is that the goal posts keep getting shifted. 'AVB and Robbie didn't have enough time'. Others like Mourinho 'were under pressure'. There will always be excuses and at the end of the day everything but the lack of the managers' willingness will be blamed. It really isn't that hard to give someone say 700 minutes of football over 10 months. After all we've been happy enough to waste time with dross like Marin, Cuadrado, Benayoun, Torres, etc. Perhaps people like Boga, Musonda and Baker needed to cost 10 million pounds each to be afforded the same opportunities.

I don't even know which club Nat is at right now.

You're misdirecting the 'bad results' thing ... regular members here know I've defended Mourinho more than most, so for me the criticism in regards to lack of youth integration is solely that, not linked to anything else.

Nat should of been sold this season, same with a few of our other loanees (that have no future at the club).

I don't get why we keep them so long and make them go out on 4, 5, 6 different loan spells. Just sell them with a decent buyback clause (like what Barca and a number of Italian clubs do)