The Mourinho Thread

[didierforever 7,349]

Are you saying all those was Chelsea buy from Mourinho?

I think you need to look clear at some names that was here and came before. Not to mention that Chelsea finish second that season and made it far in the CL....

That's totally different then what you mention Chelsea was in EL a couple of seasons back.

Inter was already winning tittles, similar to City of Mancini. Maicon, Zanetti...especially Zanetti the heart and soul of the team, Cambiasso and such.

Just like you said Pellegrini had it easy because he came to a good team instead of a team that was in EL struggling.

Except for Porto and second time Chelsea, every team that Mourinho has come has the foundations laid there.

To me this is the same point that you are mentioning about Pellegrini coming to a team already good and didn't have to do much....,

When was the last time chelsea had won the PL before jose took over? When was the last time city won the PL before pele took over.

Also, I think I made it clear that most of them we're jose buys. Out of the 8 namrs I gave, 5 we're josr buys in thr chelsea tenure.

In inter, u havr got to be kidding me. Thats all I can say. Motaa etoo, lucio, sniejder, milito all we're bought in 2009 and were his main players. If that does not definr chaging the core of the team, nothing does.

Lets look at the city team currently aguero, dzeko, silva, nasri, yaya fernandinho/fernando, kolarov, kompany, demi/mangala, zaba, hart. Out of 11 players, just 2 of the positions were players who were not set in pele's team and the rest 2 are probably their weakest link (a DM and a CB). that's the extent of the work that pele has done compared to the ones josr did with his teams.

[LAM09 7,100]

Dude, yiu are the only one who supposedly thinks josr has done a poor job in transfers. The amount of people ridiculing u should be proof enough. Takr my advoce and stop the embarassment. I still can't stop laughing at the main point of your argument - negatives outweigh the positives. But please due to tell me how does that explain our immense improvement from barely qualifying for CL to 5 points with a game hand position.

There are pundits like neville who are fair. Hear and read what pundits like neville said. That would give u a good idea.

No embarrassment whatsoever. I stick to my point. I'm not seeking agreement, but making my opinion know. There's nothing funny at all, but I guess that says more about you than anything else.

Enjoy life with your rose tinted glasses on.

[didierforever 7,349]

No embarrassment whatsoever. I stick to my point. I'm not seeking agreement, but making my opinion know. There's nothing funny at all, but I guess that says note about you than anything else.

Enjoy life with your rose tinted glasses on.

hahhahahahahahhaah.

Sure dude. Havinf opinions is good. But having an opiniom which is along the lines of saying that turnbull is better than neuer is... :lol:

Better my rose tinted glasses than your stupid ones.

[LAM09 7,100]

hahhahahahahahhaah.

Sure dude. Havinf opinions is good. But having an opiniom which is along the lines of saying that turnbull is better than neuer is... [emoji38] [emoji38]

Better my rose tinted glasses than your stupid ones.

[emoji58]

[Fernando 6,743]

When was the last time chelsea had won the PL before jose took over? When was the last time city won the PL before pele took over.

Also, I think I made it clear that most of them we're jose buys. Out of the 8 namrs I gave, 5 we're josr buys in thr chelsea tenure.

In inter, u havr got to be kidding me. Thats all I can say. Motaa etoo, lucio, sniejder, milito all we're bought in 2009 and were his main players. If that does not definr chaging the core of the team, nothing does.

Lets look at the city team currently aguero, dzeko, silva, nasri, yaya fernandinho/fernando, kolarov, kompany, demi/mangala, zaba, hart. Out of 11 players, just 2 of the positions were players who were not set in pele's team and the rest 2 are probably their weakest link (a DM and a CB). that's the extent of the work that pele has done compared to the ones josr did with his teams.

Those all true points but that's completely different then what you mentioned of Chelsea being a El team a couple of seasons back.

Despite buying some extra players the team pellegrini and Mourinho walked into was already good.

But if you want to continue talking about walking into already made teams and how easy is the work for the new manager, then tell me this.

How come this manager can do better then the other?

Your telling me that if mancini had stayed one more year they would have been playing that good?

As to oppose pellegrini taking the same players and doing much better?

Or like at real Madrid, you think Mourinho staying one more year would have made them much better or achieve what carlo did?

Since things like this can go both ways, it's very hard to come to a point as there's case for and against it. No matter what you said there's always something that someone else can bring to give a different out look.

This is why for me I never bother discussing that because it's an endless conversation.

[Jase 43,479]

Really want to know what was said in that meeting. We need our own Marca/AS where pretty much all the goings-on get leaked

Well, we used to have that with Neil Ashton and Daily Mail. But Mourinho cut out the mole when he returned.

[Tomo 21,754]

Since when has Utd become the judging pole?

An example of just what a state the squad was in when he took over.

[Tomo 21,754]

Nope. I'm sad about the shit show I have to watch ever week on the right wing.

especially at Shrewsbury.

[LAM09 7,100]

especially at Shrewsbury.

Nope. I was talking about the other 95% of games.

[iseah100 5,612]

Can we forget about the nonsense analysis of 'buying and selling' which obviously is not just Jose's call, and go back to the EPIC press conference? I mean:

[emoji38] [emoji38]

Amazing. And he cursed, never heard him curse. Love him, no matter what.

[JB5GoCFC 12]

And to think that I used to read this forum for entertainment...so much for that. Everyone complains and expects Jose to win the Treble every year. To come short of that is, apparently, failure, even if it means a League Cup/Premier League double. I, for one, am realistic that no side can win 3 trophies every year and that 1-2 is much more realistic and likely given the competition not only in England but across Europe. Especially considering that we have only 1 trophy in the two years prior, this year should end as a fantastic achievement for us, with solid ground to build on for UCL competition next year, should our main focus shift back to Europe. But for me, you don't win 2 trophies in a single year without excellent players and coaches who are at least doing the jobs they should. You can get lucky and win one, but two is no coincidence. Enjoy the good times, we are not promised them forever.

[didierforever 7,349]

Those all true points but that's completely different then what you mentioned of Chelsea being a El team a couple of seasons back.

Despite buying some extra players the team pellegrini and Mourinho walked into was already good.

But if you want to continue talking about walking into already made teams and how easy is the work for the new manager, then tell me this.

How come this manager can do better then the other?

Your telling me that if mancini had stayed one more year they would have been playing that good?

As to oppose pellegrini taking the same players and doing much better?

Or like at real Madrid, you think Mourinho staying one more year would have made them much better or achieve what carlo did?

Since things like this can go both ways, it's very hard to come to a point as there's case for and against it. No matter what you said there's always something that someone else can bring to give a different out look.

This is why for me I never bother discussing that because it's an endless conversation.

Mancinic and jose had lost the dressing room. That was the main difference betwren them and their successors. A manager can't do anything with a bunch of players who don't want to play for him.

The other reason of why a manager is better than another is by how he uses his resourcrs, how hr develops his players and squad and continously improves the team. Jose has done each and everyone of those things compared to pele who has not done any of them.

Last season, city could have appointed pele or ian holloway or sean dykes, they should still have won the leagur. Their squad was heads and shoulders above the rest. This season they have capitulated. ,

[lucio 5,418]

People think that Mourinho has done the buying and selling?

He hasn't done the transactions. But I'm sure he chooses who he wants brought in and sold. This doesn't affect the numbers directly, but still...needs credit for overhauling the team without going crazy

[We Hate Scouse 10,352]

He hasn't done the transactions. But I'm sure he chooses who he wants brought in and sold. This doesn't affect the numbers directly, but still...needs credit for overhauling the team without going crazy

He has a say on it, others make the final decisions.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

While I agree to an extent, you have to look at it from Jose's perspective. PSG aside of course because our approach in the second half was beyond ridiculous. But generally, these tactics have worked for most of his time, even at Chelsea. At the same time, our forwards are just not clinical. We are a team that needs to get into dangerous positions 10-15 times before we find the finish or the pass that makes a goal. So generally, I'd agree with Jose that it is NOT in our best interest to trade chances with other teams. When we play chance for chance against teams, it is more likely to end the way it did at WHL against Tottenham than against Everton.

Have they worked this season ? While we are top of the league it's kinda worrying how many times this season we've struggled keeping a 1 goal lead. Looking back the main problem seems to be that when we go up a goal we stop playing and just sit deep.

We invite pressure and simply can't handle it.

Reason for this, imo, is that our defence can't be solid on it's own and needs help from our entire team to be solid defensively. Problem is that our opponent usually responds in kind by pushing more players higher up the pitch, basically negating our extra defensive support by offering extra offensive support to their own attackers.

Normally that would lead to dangerous counters but our counter attacks this season have been non existant, apart from a few occasions.

Personally i feel this is because our wingers are too deep when defending. When we recover the ball we only have one real outlet to pass to, Costa and he isn't great at holding onto the ball.

This leaves our wingers getting the ball deep in their own half, trying to manoever their way past their marker while trying to outrun the players getting back into their defensive position.

Usually the opposition delays our wingers long enough for other players to return and if they do happen to get past them then they just foul our wingers.

Also because they foul us so deep in our own half they usually end up getting away with it without a booking because the counter simply didn't develop enough.

In my head i kinda came up with a lineup that could make us stronger defensively while adding a new dimension to our counters.

To be clear not saying that this is what we absolutely should do just trying to offer an example to what i mean with changing our approach.

A 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 depending how you look at it.

Costa

Hazard

Willian Matic Fabregas Ramires/Cuadrado

Azpi/Luis Terry Zouma/Cahill Ivanovic/Azpi

Courtois

Basically a rip off of Atletico's system (although the roles for the front 2 would be a bit different).

Defensively, 2 lines of 4 that stay compact and suffocate anything that comes in the zone we're trying to defend.

Hazard would have to press the deepest midfield player so that he doesn't get too much time to pick his passes.( he could at times switch with Costa to relief the burden a bit)

Hazard wouldn't have to track that midfielder all the way back though, when the deepest midfielder joins the attack and moves into the area our first line is defending Hazard should just stay high and remain as an outlet.

If all three of the opponents midfielders are in the area we're defending then that would mean one of the opponents fullbacks would have to move back and tuck inside to defend on Hazard.

Otherwise they'd effectively be playing 2 on 2 with only their CB's left to defend against Hazard and Costa. I can't see many teams playing 2 on 2 against Hazard and Costa not unless they're absolutely desperate to score.

In attack.

Hazard woud be our short range outlet. He'd be a good resting point for our team as he's the second best player in our team (behind Drogba) at playing with his back towards goal and holding up the ball.

His ability to beat players also adds more of a fear factor and would make teams even more afraid of playing man to man.

Costa would be our long range outlet. With Hazard being there to take care of the hold up play it would free Costa up a bit and would allow him to focus more on doing what he's good at, his off the ball movement.

Dragging his marker wide or running in behind defenders.

Willian and Ramirer/Cuadrado would be the runners and support the counter while Matic and Fabregas would hold their position and not join the counter.

Sorry for the long post.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I've said several times, my opinion has NOTHING to do with fees. Please read!

Fees come down to the board. They should be congratulated.

Dude just walk away, you are greatly embarrassing yourself with each and every post you make.

Do you have any idea what considerations go into transfers? Do you think that each and every player out there has Chelsea as there no.1 destination? Do you have any idea how our scouting system is utilized? Do you have any concept of team philosophy?

This is Jose's team now, a real manager. Not AVB, Not RDM(love you brother) not FSW. He's been here not even for two years and is still assembling his team. Its not like 2005 where he can just go out and submit a blank cheque to whoever he wants to acquire, this time around he needs to be clever and not only that, needs to make money from selling players. Its not as easy as saying "I like so and so, lets buy him" in the real world teams have to WANT to sell, players have to WANT to come and agents have to WANT to negotiate and that's not even looking at the legalese that also comes into it.

This isn't a sprint, its a marathon. Jose in less than two years had us in the semi finals of the champions league(the previous year we were out at the group stage) 4pts away from the title(the previous year we were 14pts off the pace) and this year got us a cup(I don't care if its mickey mouse) and on course to hoist the premier league title.

We've gone from a horrific midfield and a God awful strike force to Matic, Cesc, Diego and Remy(needs to play a bit more)! If there is ever gonna be a case where we Chelsea fans give a manager time to make his corrections its now!

Salah is a nice little player, he was never gonna be given the free role he has now with us. He didn't work out with our team philosophy, does that mean the manager doesn't know what he's doing? Not at all! It simply means that after seeing him everyday day in training he hasn't quite grasped what the manager wants... Maybe Jose is too demanding?

DeBruyne is flourishing in a league that plays the game at a tempo he is very comfortable with. He was great at Werder Bremen and even better now at Wolfsburg... He didn't work within our team and we turned him in Matic.

The point of this is to say give it time. I have no doubt Jose knows what he's doing and knows what he wants! We have made marked improvements since he came back and we're setting up to embark on a real run here. Don't let this PSG setback take away from the fact that we're a fantastic team still finding its way! This is year two, not year 4/5....

[boshman 1,073]

especially at Shrewsbury.

You mean Strawberry?

[LAM09 7,100]

Dude just walk away, you are greatly embarrassing yourself with each and every post you make.

Do you have any idea what considerations go into transfers? Do you think that each and every player out there has Chelsea as there no.1 destination? Do you have any idea how our scouting system is utilized? Do you have any concept of team philosophy?

This is Jose's team now, a real manager. Not AVB, Not RDM(love you brother) not FSW. He's been here not even for two years and is still assembling his team. Its not like 2005 where he can just go out and submit a blank cheque to whoever he wants to acquire, this time around he needs to be clever and not only that, needs to make money from selling players. Its not as easy as saying "I like so and so, lets buy him" in the real world teams have to WANT to sell, players have to WANT to come and agents have to WANT to negotiate and that's not even looking at the legalese that also comes into it.

This isn't a sprint, its a marathon. Jose in less than two years had us in the semi finals of the champions league(the previous year we were out at the group stage) 4pts away from the title(the previous year we were 14pts off the pace) and this year got us a cup(I don't care if its mickey mouse) and on course to hoist the premier league title.

We've gone from a horrific midfield and a God awful strike force to Matic, Cesc, Diego and Remy(needs to play a bit more)! If there is ever gonna be a case where we Chelsea fans give a manager time to make his corrections its now!

Salah is a nice little player, he was never gonna be given the free role he has now with us. He didn't work out with our team philosophy, does that mean the manager doesn't know what he's doing? Not at all! It simply means that after seeing him everyday day in training he hasn't quite grasped what the manager wants... Maybe Jose is too demanding?

DeBruyne is flourishing in a league that plays the game at a tempo he is very comfortable with. He was great at Werder Bremen and even better now at Wolfsburg... He didn't work within our team and we turned him in Matic.

The point of this is to say give it time. I have no doubt Jose knows what he's doing and knows what he wants! We have made marked improvements since he came back and we're setting up to embark on a real run here. Don't let this PSG setback take away from the fact that we're a fantastic team still finding its way! This is year two, not year 4/5....

As I said previously, there's no embarrassment on my part. I don't think some of his, the board or whoever's moves have/will work out. There's nothing wrong, incorrect, funny or embarrassing about that. I get what you are saying that a team is build for the whole haul (I agree), but some players aren't going to fit in or deliver on a consistent basis.

I'm not sure how on earth some people interpret my posts, but it all comes down to personal opinion and preference. Me, myself and I think along those lines. There's nothing outlandish about my current stance, other than some thinking there's a right or wrong point for this discussion.

P.S. I still have faith in Mourinho leading us to glory for many years to come.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

As I said previously, there's no embarrassment on my part. I don't think some of his, the board or whoever's moves have/will work out. There's nothing wrong, incorrect, funny or embarrassing about that. I get what you are saying that a team is build for the whole haul (I agree), but some players aren't going to fit in or deliver on a consistent basis.

I'm not sure how on earth some people interpret my posts, but it all comes down to personal opinion and preference. Me, myself and I think along those lines. There's nothing outlandish about my current stance, other than some thinking there's a right or wrong point for this discussion.

P.S. I still have faith in Mourinho leading us to glory for many years to come.

Like who?

Your posts are personal opinion but many struggle to gather how you've reached those conclusions. You said 'with the exception of Zouma his transfer dealings haven't been good' You must expect you're gonna grab the attention of maybe 95% of the people who follow Chelsea and get a 'wtf' response, right?

Cesc, Costa, Matic, Willian, Remy, Schurrle, Cuadrado, Zouma, Salah. If I'm not mistaken these are the first team players bought by Jose since he's been back. Of the nine of them you can say maybe 3 haven't gone according to plan, 2 have been moved on(Salah and Schurrle) and the other plays a hell of a lot for Jose so clearly he has a function in the team. Cuadrado's next year will be his first in my opinion... He's still getting his feet wet.

So in my estimation Cesc, Costa, Matic, Remy and Zouma have all been incredible buys, unless you disagree with what I've said how can you say his dealings haven't been good?

[Fernando 6,743]

Have they worked this season ? While we are top of the league it's kinda worrying how many times this season we've struggled keeping a 1 goal lead. Looking back the main problem seems to be that when we go up a goal we stop playing and just sit deep.

We invite pressure and simply can't handle it.

Reason for this, imo, is that our defence can't be solid on it's own and needs help from our entire team to be solid defensively. Problem is that our opponent usually responds in kind by pushing more players higher up the pitch, basically negating our extra defensive support by offering extra offensive support to their own attackers.

Normally that would lead to dangerous counters but our counter attacks this season have been non existant, apart from a few occasions.

Personally i feel this is because our wingers are too deep when defending. When we recover the ball we only have one real outlet to pass to, Costa and he isn't great at holding onto the ball.

This leaves our wingers getting the ball deep in their own half, trying to manoever their way past their marker while trying to outrun the players getting back into their defensive position.

Usually the opposition delays our wingers long enough for other players to return and if they do happen to get past them then they just foul our wingers.

Also because they foul us so deep in our own half they usually end up getting away with it without a booking because the counter simply didn't develop enough.

In my head i kinda came up with a lineup that could make us stronger defensively while adding a new dimension to our counters.

To be clear not saying that this is what we absolutely should do just trying to offer an example to what i mean with changing our approach.

A 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 depending how you look at it.

Costa

Hazard

Willian Matic Fabregas Ramires/Cuadrado

Azpi/Luis Terry Zouma/Cahill Ivanovic/Azpi

Courtois

Basically a rip off of Atletico's system (although the roles for the front 2 would be a bit different).

Defensively, 2 lines of 4 that stay compact and suffocate anything that comes in the zone we're trying to defend.

Hazard would have to press the deepest midfield player so that he doesn't get too much time to pick his passes.( he could at times switch with Costa to relief the burden a bit)

Hazard wouldn't have to track that midfielder all the way back though, when the deepest midfielder joins the attack and moves into the area our first line is defending Hazard should just stay high and remain as an outlet.

If all three of the opponents midfielders are in the area we're defending then that would mean one of the opponents fullbacks would have to move back and tuck inside to defend on Hazard.

Otherwise they'd effectively be playing 2 on 2 with only their CB's left to defend against Hazard and Costa. I can't see many teams playing 2 on 2 against Hazard and Costa not unless they're absolutely desperate to score.

In attack.

Hazard woud be our short range outlet. He'd be a good resting point for our team as he's the second best player in our team (behind Drogba) at playing with his back towards goal and holding up the ball.

His ability to beat players also adds more of a fear factor and would make teams even more afraid of playing man to man.

Costa would be our long range outlet. With Hazard being there to take care of the hold up play it would free Costa up a bit and would allow him to focus more on doing what he's good at, his off the ball movement.

Dragging his marker wide or running in behind defenders.

Willian and Ramirer/Cuadrado would be the runners and support the counter while Matic and Fabregas would hold their position and not join the counter.

Sorry for the long post.

Do you think buying a new cb might help as well?

Don't have to speak about cahill no more, but zouma is very promising.

But because Terry is old I think another cb might be useful.

Other then that your spot on, it's just amazing the amount of times we conceded after being one goal up.

We try to park the bus and sit back but that's killing us in many games.