Cesc Fàbregas

[Symbol123 175]

Still living off that chip?

After his first season where he had to adapt to English football he kicked on, he scored our goal of the season in the 2010-11 season vs City and looked like he was finding his feet in the PL.

In the 2011-12 season he was one of our best players, under AVB where he was given more offensive capabilities and also under Di Matteo when he came in and took over he kept, performing well despite being shuffled out wide to accommodate Lampard and Mikel as the two holding players in a 4-2-3-1. He scored big goals and provided big moments, not just that chip against Barca, remember the goal he scored against Liverpool in the FA cup final? Also he scored against Spurs in that 5-1 game in the semi final. He also set Drogba up against Napoli at the Bridge for the first goal, kept Lavezzi quiet when he had to defend and was very heavily involved with the crucial fourth goal Branna scored. Under Jose this year he looked more at home in the 2 for a good half of a season. The Super Cup final he impressed me a lot, despite receiving a red card. Ok he started to fade away during the second half of the season and didn't put in good performances but that's football, form doesn't last a whole season. Also he done some stupid things but because he did two or three stupid things doesn't mean hes a poor player who doesn't deserve to wear the shirt.

Hes done well and contribute his fair bit since arriving here, big goals/moments/performance in specific big games the last few years (vs United, City, Napoli, Barcelona, Spurs, Liverpool, Bayern, Benfica etc) so I think you need to re-evaluate your opinion.

Agreed with everything about Ramires. Some people just have goldfish memory I guess

[oldportblue 547]

I hate to say it, but you are an idiot if you think Ramires deserves to wear the shirt. His performance last year was absolutely fucking terrible. Why do you think our second priority behind a striker is a #8?

What's wrong with you dude? calling someone an idiot for defending a player who has great history at chelsea, loves the club and always gives his all... Seriously? He had a bad season but so have plenty of other players in the past, so what? He obviously deserves to stay and try to improve... Thankfully our board and jose aren't as shortsighted as you

[The Chels 2,502]

Still living off that chip?

After his first season where he had to adapt to English football he kicked on, he scored our goal of the season in the 2010-11 season vs City and looked like he was finding his feet in the PL.

In the 2011-12 season he was one of our best players, under AVB where he was given more offensive capabilities and also under Di Matteo when he came in and took over he kept, performing well despite being shuffled out wide to accommodate Lampard and Mikel as the two holding players in a 4-2-3-1. He scored big goals and provided big moments, not just that chip against Barca, remember the goal he scored against Liverpool in the FA cup final? Also he scored against Spurs in that 5-1 game in the semi final. He also set Drogba up against Napoli at the Bridge for the first goal, kept Lavezzi quiet when he had to defend and was very heavily involved with the crucial fourth goal Branna scored. Under Jose this year he looked more at home in the 2 for a good half of a season. The Super Cup final he impressed me a lot, despite receiving a red card. Ok he started to fade away during the second half of the season and didn't put in good performances but that's football, form doesn't last a whole season. Also he done some stupid things but because he did two or three stupid things doesn't mean hes a poor player who doesn't deserve to wear the shirt.

Hes done well and contribute his fair bit since arriving here, big goals/moments/performance in specific big games the last few years (vs United, City, Napoli, Barcelona, Spurs, Liverpool, Bayern, Benfica etc) so I think you need to re-evaluate your opinion.

Fabregas coming here would be a great move, Matic sweeping up in front of the defence and Fabregas feeding the likes of Hazard, Willian, Oscar etc with the ball in between the lines... please make it happen.

Telling people to re-evaluate their opinion because they don't agree with you is very rude and symptomatic of someone who thinks his opinion is superior to others'. In reply to your essay I didn't actually accuse Ramires of having done nothing good apart from the Barca chip. I accused him of living off it which if in anything is what your comment of "I'd love to hear your version of how Chelsea won its first Champions League..." reinforces. Ramires will make for a good squad player but should not be a regular IMO (although he probably will be) because of his limitations, ones made so apparent last season and for which you blame 'poor form' but I blame ineptitude.

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

Telling people to re-evaluate their opinion because they don't agree with you is very rude and symptomatic of someone who thinks his opinion is superior to others'. In reply to your essay I didn't actually accuse Ramires of having done nothing good apart from the Barca chip. I accused him of living off it which if in anything is what your comment of "I'd love to hear your version of how Chelsea won its first Champions League..." reinforces. Ramires will make for a good squad player but should not be a regular IMO (although he probably will be) because of his limitations, ones made so apparent last season and for which you blame 'poor form' but I blame ineptitude.

You said he was living off a chip he did in a CL semi final in 2012. You made out hes done nothing since that by saying' he's living off it' so don't give me your fucking bullshit 'I didn't actually accuse Ramires of having done nothing good apart from the Barca chip', where you basically were accusing him of living off it saying he didn't deserve to wear the shirt in previous posts etc.

He scored big goals in the FA cup semi final and then the final after that game vs Barcelona in that season for fuck sakes. Hes not living off anything, out of the midfield options we have had since 2011 he has been one of the best of the lot, hence why hes been included in more or less every game he's been fit to play in since 2011. Robbie, Rafa and Jose didn't just pick him because he chipped Valdes in the Nou Camp loool.

What are players not allowed to have a run of bad form? It happens mate.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Ramires can honestly piss off just like Torres. He doesn't deserve to wear the Chelsea shirt after his dog shit performance last season.

Well I guess you didnt watch Chelsea before this season...

[iseah100 5,612]

Ramires can honestly piss off just like Torres. He doesn't deserve to wear the Chelsea shirt after his dog shit performance last season.

Whoa. One bad season and he's a piece of shit who doesn't deserve a Chelsea shirt? Relax there, little man.

LOL Ramires is still living off that chip. Judging which players 'deserve to wear the Chelsea shirt' based on one moment in the past rather than their present performances is illogical.

And judging which players "deserve to wear the Chelsea shirt" based on current form is illogical.

I hate to say it, but you are an idiot if you think Ramires deserves to wear the shirt. His performance last year was absolutely fucking terrible. Why do you think our second priority behind a striker is a #8?

Really, dude? Insulting someone for defending ONE OF OUR OWN PLAYERS. Thank god there aren't more ignorant fans like you.

[The Chels 2,502]

Hes not living off anything, out of the midfield options we have hes been the best of the lot

That says more about the state of our central midfield (before Matic came in) than anything else.

What are players not allowed to have a run of bad form? It happens mate.

Do CMs suddenly forget how to pass, create and keep their cool once they're in a 'run of bad form'?!

And judging which players "deserve to wear the Chelsea shirt" based on current form is illogical.

If picking the team based on who is currently performing best is illogical, what is your proposed 'logical' method?

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

That says more about the state of our central midfield (before Matic came in) than anything else.

Do CMs suddenly forget how to pass, create and keep their cool once they're in a "run of bad form'?!

When did Ramires actually create chances from open play a lot? Never, hes a box to box midfielder, covers a lot of ground, supports the attack, breaks up play. I think your fucking high because if you ever thought he created a lot you really didn't watch the same Ramires as I did.

Lose his cool? Shit happens, stop trying to nitpick because if thats your argument it is fucking stupid because good players have lost their cool for stupid reasons. Players get frustrated and do stupid shit, always have and always will do.

[Barbara 15,149]

I think saying 'deserve' to wear Chelsea's shirt is a bit of a stretch, but he isn't up the level a team of our caliber needs. He's a great athlete, but a poor footballer. He can't pick passes, his football IQ is really low, sometimes he loses his mind out of nowhere although he does give his best every match.

Sorry if I think a team like us - and with our ambitions - deserve a better footballer than Ramires. We deserve better and we should have better. I would word it like that instead of him not deserving to wear our shirt, but yeah, I tend to agree we're better than Ramires.

[iseah100 5,612]

If picking the team based on who is currently performing best is illogical, what is your proposed 'logical' method?

By your logic, neither Cole or Lamps "deserved tothe wear a Chelsea shirt"based and if you think that, you're clearly not a Chelsea fan.

But enough of this argument, we need to talk about Cesc!

[iseah100 5,612]

I think saying 'deserve' to wear Chelsea's shirt is a bit of a stretch, but he isn't up the level a team of our caliber needs. He's a great athlete, but a poor footballer. He can't pick passes, his football IQ is really low, sometimes he loses his mind out of nowhere although he does give his best every match.

Sorry if I think a team like us - and with our ambitions - deserve a better footballer than Ramires. We deserve better and we should have better. I would word it like that instead of him not deserving to wear our shirt, but yeah, I tend to agree we're better than Ramires.

I disagree. When he was playing well he was good enough, but after one bad season all of a sudden he's poor and isn't good enough to play for us?

[Blue Armour 4,168]

LOL Ramires is still living off that chip. Judging which players 'deserve to wear the Chelsea shirt' based on one moment in the past rather than their present performances is illogical.

Actually it was more than just "one" moment, and not everyone has the memory of a goldfish.

I think its equally illogical to say that the player isn't fit to wear the shirt based of a string of recent performances,.... especially in a season where he hasn't had a decent run of consecutive matches to achieve any sort of consistency.

[The Chels 2,502]

When did Ramires actually create chances from open play a lot? Never, hes a box to box midfielder, covers a lot of ground, supports the attack, breaks up play. I think your fucking high because if you ever thought he created a lot you really didn't watch the same Ramires as I did.

Lose his cool? Shit happens, stop trying to nitpick because if thats your argument it is fucking stupid because good players have lost their cool for stupid reasons. Players get frustrated and do stupid shit, always have and always will do.

That was exactly my point. Ramires is a good squad player and will no doubt be of use in certain games but for the vast majority of PL games he doesn't offer the attributes - passing and creating - we require from the CM partnering Matic. Also I think 'losing his cool' is putting it too mildly, more like petulance and brainlessness.

[Barbara 15,149]

I disagree. When he was playing well he was good enough, but after one bad season all of a sudden he's poor and isn't good enough to play for us?

No, I've always thought he was poor with the good season being the exception. Sorry, mate, never been a fan and I don't think I'll ever be...

Just look this: http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#la_liga/2013/2014/francesc_f%C3%A1bregas/69/69/306/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/ramires/64/64/443/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/david_luiz/64/64/448/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/frank_lampard/64/64/431/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/john_obi_mikel/64/64/434/0/p#successful_passes/avg_pass_length/chances_created/clearances#90

Which I found in that Squawka article someone posted. How can we have a player whose average of successful passes is below 40. That's unacceptable imo even for a player in the pivot. He's a B2B, he can't pass so little. A DM yes, but a B2B no.

[Chelsea? 892]

Oscar and Ramirez had similar season's last year.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

I have to say, Ramires is not as good as I initially thought he was. BUT, we aren't in a position were Ramires has to leave. He's a very useful player to have in your team. Not only does he cover a lot of kilometres and work his butt off for the cause of his team, he is also pretty versatile. Remember he can play on the right side to "close" things down when need be. Remember how Jose used him against City to neutralize Kolarov's runs and to a lesser extent, prevent Silva from drifting to the left and forcing him to go the center (even though admittedly, Silva always does that), where he was marked out by David Luiz and Matic. In that game, Ramires was hopeless offensively though, further exemplifying his limitations. We also need him because Jose will also be going 4-3-3 in certain matches next season. If Ramires was put on the market tomorrow, the very biggest clubs in Europe will by vying for his signature, I'm sure of it.

There's no doubt in my mind that he's nowhere near good enough technically to be a starter in a passing side, hence the desire to sign Fabregas. But no one can deny his tactical flexibility and the energy, verve and drive he brings. He should be an important squad guy, nothing more, nothing less.

[The Chels 2,502]

By your logic, neither Cole or Lamps "deserved tothe wear a Chelsea shirt"based and if you think that, you're clearly not a Chelsea fan.

But enough of this argument, we need to talk about Cesc!

I just quoted that phrase ('deserve to wear the shirt') from another poster but fair enough I can see why you think it sounds spiteful. My point is simply that Ramires is not good enough to start for Chelsea.

[Waterfall 893]

Not surprised people are making Ramires the scapegoat. When things aren't great, his type of players (the non-sexy ones) are always the first to get criticized: Kuyt for Liverpool, Park for United etc.