🇧🇷 Willian

[Simon1991 233]

I would not mind Willian staying as a squad player (third or fourth option on the wing), but we all know FL is a big fan of Willian and would probably see it differently. I am not sure how to describe this, but i have this big hunch Willian's strong personality makes it hard for the manager to drop him from the team. From the outside he's not this big leader figure, but i have this feeling/idea he's HIGHLY respected by the rest of team and manager due to his senior status and personality.

This is something we fans can't really know for sure and is purely speculative, but for some reason i have the idea this is playing a big part in why Willian always ends-up in the starting 11.

A situation i feel was similar with David Luiz. Even when he was utter shit, he had this aura about him that nearly "automatically" warranted him a spot in the starting eleven. Same with free-kicks, he scored a few, but we had far better FK takers in the team and he still ended up taking them. Still happening at Arsenal by the way. The media and Arsenal fans saying he is shit, but he is starting and Arteta willing to extend his contract.

I personally want Willian to go. If he stays i'm pretty sure he'll be picked before Ziyech or CHO even if his level does not warrant it, for the aforementioned reasons.

[Jype 6,398]

2 hours ago, Simon1991 said:

I am not sure how to describe this, but i have this big hunch Willian's strong personality makes it hard for the manager to drop him from the team. From the outside he's not this big leader figure, but i have this feeling/idea he's HIGHLY respected by the rest of team and manager due to his senior status and personality.

This is something we fans can't really know for sure and is purely speculative, but for some reason i have the idea this is playing a big part in why Willian always ends-up in the starting 11.

A situation i feel was similar with David Luiz.

Yeah, and just like David Luiz I can't see Willian taking it very well if he suddenly wasn't a key player anymore. We already saw it under Conte that Willian's ego is too big for him to only play a squad role. And that to me is really ironic considering he's not and never has been a world class player by any means.

All that, aside from it totally shafting CHO, is why I don't think it's really that good of an idea to extend his deal. People here have been saying "oh well, he's still a good player and can play AM4 role" but in reality it doesn't work like that with a player who still thinks so highly of himself that he demands £200-250K/week wages on a long-term contract which would also break the club's age policy that has been in place for a long time and is something the club didn't budge even for players like Lamps and Terry. David Luiz is so far the only player the club gave in on contract length demands and look how that ended up.

Willian's been a good servant for the club but it's finally time to move on. I'd have thought the time was years ago but maybe that's just me.

[Jase 43,479]

9 minutes ago, Jype said:

Yeah, and just like David Luiz I can't see Willian taking it very well if he suddenly wasn't a key player anymore. We already saw it under Conte that Willian's ego is too big for him to only play a squad role. And that to me is really ironic considering he's not and never has been a world class player by any means.

Maybe Willian would be told that he would not play often next season and he still accepts the new deal? And maybe Lampard can sort of tame him? I mean, despite all the chopping and changing and the struggles with some players this season, Lampard hasn't fallen out with anyone. Not with Giroud when he was seemingly out of favor earlier this season or Kepa after his mistakes or anyone else in that category. 

But putting this aside for a moment, not sure who to believe on this TBH. ESPN and Sky Sports said that we are nearing a new deal with Willian but Matt Law didn't mention it or anything in his transfer piece today and Guardian said it is very likely that he will leave after the season. So...

[Jype 6,398]

Just now, Jason said:

Maybe Willian would be told that he would not play often next season and he still accepts the new deal? And maybe Lampard can sort of tame him? I mean, despite all the chopping and changing and the struggles with some players this season, Lampard hasn't fallen out with anyone. Not with Giroud when he was seemingly out of favor earlier this season or Kepa after his mistakes or anyone else in that category. 

But putting this aside for a moment, not sure who to believe on this TBH. ESPN and Sky Sports said that we are nearing a new deal with Willian but Matt Law didn't mention it or anything in his transfer piece today and Guardian said it is very likely that he will leave after the season. So...

Maybe. But based on his contract demands alone I would assume he still sees himself as one of the very best players in the squad, even after the new arrivals in attacking positions. Why else would he demand to be the club's second highest paid player after Kante? And even if he were to agree a smaller role, why should the club pay him that kind of money if his new squad status didn't match the wages anymore? Aging players with diminishing roles should take smaller wages, not get a huge pay rise to their current deals.

Either way, I'd assume we're going to know more within the next few days. His short-term contract is almost at the end so a decision will have to be made soon. 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Jype said:

Maybe. But based on his contract demands alone I would assume he still sees himself as one of the very best players in the squad, even after the new arrivals in attacking positions. Why else would he demand to be the club's second highest paid player after Kante? And even if he were to agree a smaller role, why should the club pay him that kind of money if his new squad status didn't match the wages anymore? Aging players with diminishing roles should take smaller wages, not get a huge pay rise to their current deals.

Either way, I'd assume we're going to know more within the next few days. His short-term contract is almost at the end so a decision will have to be made soon. 

Assuming the deal does go through (FFS!), I guess there would be some sort of compromise agreed between the two parties. 

[Jype 6,398]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Assuming the deal does go through (FFS!), I guess there would be some sort of compromise agreed between the two parties. 

Yeah, maybe.

I could reluctantly accept him staying if it's on a 2 year deal at most and with an agreement between Lamps and Willian that his role will get smaller over time. And on reasonable wages, roughly the same as he makes now. Not that it's money out of my pocket anyway if he does get more but I just don't want to see years of mediocrity rewarded just because he hit form at the right time after the restart.

[Steve 10,227]

The only reason I can see anyone wanting to keep him on with us, would be for the part where Frank needs locker room leaders. I honestly don't see any other reason why we would be keep Willian on the list.

[Henrique 9,133]

He doesn't deserve a new contract. Both Conte and Sarri started Pedro over Willian for a reason. Willian's strongest point was his work rate, but he never scored enough goals or created enough chances, but its pretty clear he lost most of that during this season. Specially after the restart of the season, a lot of his performances could be described as "lazy".

I can already see next season Mount+Willian starting a game against Liverpool, with Zyech and Pulisic siting on the bench. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

9 hours ago, Steve said:

The only reason I can see anyone wanting to keep him on with us, would be for the part where Frank needs locker room leaders. I honestly don't see any other reason why we would be keep Willian on the list.

How is Willian a leader? Just because he is old does not mean he is a good leader.

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Vesper 30,185]

30 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Beckham wants him at Inter Miami

Inter Miami CF alters logo to promote social distancing

[1chelsea 864]

Beckham wants him at Inter Miami

Inter Miami CF alters logo to promote social distancing

Sell!!! Get him on the next flight please.


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[Jype 6,398]

49 minutes ago, 1chelsea said:

Sell!!! Get him on the next flight please.

Willian doesn't even need selling, just don't extend his contract and he will leave on his own.

[communicate 2,703]

19 hours ago, Simon1991 said:

I would not mind Willian staying as a squad player (third or fourth option on the wing), but we all know FL is a big fan of Willian and would probably see it differently. I am not sure how to describe this, but i have this big hunch Willian's strong personality makes it hard for the manager to drop him from the team. From the outside he's not this big leader figure, but i have this feeling/idea he's HIGHLY respected by the rest of team and manager due to his senior status and personality.

 

Lamp is maybe a rookie manager but he is not stupid. If willian played poorly for many games, he won't play. 

I am quite surprised people don't get why Willian is starting for us after wolves game. 

[Vesper 30,185]

Just now, communicate said:

Lamp is maybe a rookie manager but he is not stupid. If willian played poorly for many games, he won't play. 

I am quite surprised people don't get why Willian is starting for us after wolves game. 

I absolutely get it

same for Alonso

it is why I backed way off them months ago

only time in past few months I got pissed at Willian was when he was dead knackered, so not really his fault

I am one of the very few who want him to stay on

he is a great squad player to have on the bench

and it saves us (IF we let him go and bought a decent winger to replace him)  tens of millions this window

which we do not have to spare

as we have to pump so much into all the other positions

the only wingers in the world above 29yo who are better than Willian atm

are

Messi

CR7

Ángel Di María

Gareth Bale (and he has destroyed a huge chunk of his remaining career by fucking off at Real)

and maybe, maybe, Ivan Perišić (not for me)

that is literally it

no, one season farmer league wonder Dušan Tadić is not better, he was dogshit in the EPL and is horrid at defensive trackback play (one of Willian's true strong-points) zero goals this season in CL group stage, and in 2018-19, his crazy stats year almost ALL his goals were against teams who would be instantly relegated in the Championship. Out of his 38 goals that year, only 5 where against quality teams (and what made his rep was that 3 of them were against Bayern and Real) Almost all his goals and assists where against dogshit. (his only 4 assists against quality teams were again 3 total against Bayern and Real, plus 1 v spurs)

This season, zero goals against quality teams, all comps, 3 league assists v quality (PSV and Feyenoord), and 3 CL assists v a decent teams (Valencia and Lille)

banging in a shedload versus utter dregs like Sturm Graz, Telstar, Spakenburg, Emmen,, VVV-Venlo, Heerenveen, RKC Waalwijk, SBV Excelsior, De Graafschap Doetinchem, and Fortuna Sittard is meaningless.

[Superblue 6,372]

I think where some consideration needs to come into play is what if the likes of Ziyech and (hopefully) Havertz take time to adapt and adjust to the league? Similarly Hudson Odoi still has a lot of development. I think it's a risk to just let Willian walk if there's the chance to keep him if others expected to replace him have teething problems.

However we as a fan base view Willian, in my opinion he'd be first choice right winger still at every other club in the league bar Liverpool and City. So to have a player of that ilk within the squad shouldn't just be dismissed.

He also offers a lot of experience which could be important. Some of the players being talked about leaving - Willian, Pedro, Jorginho, Alonso, Giroud are amongst our most experienced players in the group and sometimes that needs to be leaned on just like Lampard did in the latter stages of this season. I would not want to simply let too many of them go all at once.

Another factor to consider is the condensed schedule we'll face next season. It will be tiring and gruelling to challenge on multiple fronts and we need the squad for it. Being able to use 5 subs still will allow Lampard far greater flexibility to use and rotate the squad and having numbers will be important (especially considering Pulisic and Hudson Odoi have had injury issues and Ziyech will be first year in the league). I think it's already benefited us since lock down having a strong bench to call upon.

Willian hasn't shown any deterioration in his physical attributes yet and hopefully being part of a rotation of the attacking players can keep him fresh and fit at that level for a while longer.

3 years will be too much in my opinion given his age, but I'd have no problem giving him a 2 year contract still.

[Simon1991 233]

2 hours ago, communicate said:

Lamp is maybe a rookie manager but he is not stupid. If willian played poorly for many games, he won't play. 

I am quite surprised people don't get why Willian is starting for us after wolves game. 

Yes if he was utter shit for several games at some point he would have to, but we have seen Willian playing bad or average at best for a string of matches and still not being dropped and that's my point, Willian is always given more leeway.

Frank has been quicker on the trigger with some other players when not performing at the required level.

Again i really don't mind Willian as a squad player, but i can see him being one of Frank first options if he stays, and i don't think he's good enough.

I am sorry, I did not understand your second sentence, what do you mean by that?

 

[communicate 2,703]

12 hours ago, Simon1991 said:

 

I am sorry, I did not understand your second sentence, what do you mean by that?

 

Did you watch our game vs wolves? 

If you did, you can tell why Willian has been a starter for us. 

[Steve 10,227]

19 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

How is Willian a leader? Just because he is old does not mean he is a good leader.

Never said he was a good leader. He's just been there and done it. Where half these kids have not. Frank has spoken about this numerous times. I also don't see you in the changing room daily, so you wouldn't know what impact he has behind the scenes. You solely base that off what you see on the field. I'll take Franks' word for it. 

 

I'm also not saying I want him to stay. Don't get it twisted. I just think if Frank wants him to stay for a season then there is a reason behind it. 

[NikkiCFC 8,324]