Isco

[DDA 9,924]

I watched Brazil played several times and he is brazil no 10 and he always play as no 10 for us. You can move him to the wing but he will have tendency move back to the center

I'm not denying that the No.10 position is where he is best suited, I am simply agreeing with Kieran that Oscar could play om the wing if needed to in event of injuries and absence.

[Rmpr 8,977]

Cool Story Bro.

LOL

This is only Part 1, I am planning a bigger text for the next one only to bore people to death!

[communicate 2,703]

@Leif, I was actually curious and continued reading it.

I absolutely disagree with your arguments and I am horrified by your offensive language, however, I do agree with what I believe is your point in all of this.

First, players are humans. Just because you think they are shit at their profession, it does not give you permission to treat them like verms. Saying that you don't give a flying fuck about a player, literally means you don't care if he dies, gets injured, leaves, fail, etc. You know I like you and care about you (well, you are a complete stranger, but you get the idea), but I thought you were super rude for an unnecessary reason. You could have perfectly used a more decent language, I honestly think you only did it to show off. I would be really happy if you learn to have a bit more respect towards our own players. I wont make a big deal out of this, you can apologise if you feel like you have to or you can just ignore me. All I wanted was to make myself clear about how I feel, lets move on.

Second, no one in here denied Isco is one of the hotest prospects in Europe. He is amazing and you don't need to be a professional scout to see it. Nevertheless, it does not mean he will thrive in Chelsea, a lot of variables need to work his way in order for him to become the players everyone expects him to be. He is not that absolute certainty of success you make him, he does have flaws. Isco have great difficulty working on small spaces (Oscar?), something he doesnt really have to deal in La Liga playing for Malaga, but he will in England. So, although his talent is clear, he cant be treated like instant triumph.

Third, Isco's development requires a good amount of playing time. He needs experience and knowledge of how EPL works and how he can adapt to it (the same applies to Oscar) and that we cant offer at the moment. The main reason many dont want him here is for that factor. He will be fighting with Marin, Moses, Oscar, KDB and Piazon for 2-3 spots in the squad. Everyone at the same team will be sharing a small playing time for too many players (I know they are all different players with somewhat different positions and individual and unique playing style, but I wont get into that). No team can allow the luxury of having one player for each little event that might occur during a full season. You can't cope with Isco for a certain situation, Oscar for the other, Moses for another, KDB as backup, etc. The chemestry falls apart and the egos get hurt. Players need consistant playing time to perform in a high level and to feel happy and desired (which is very important).

Fourth, Chelsea would need to give up on some of its own players in order for it to buy Isco and allow him to improve and play on a regular basis. I criticize members who want to get him just because he is a cool name in the market and who think we must buy every single promisse. It does not work like that - a winning team is made of balance and harmony, not huge depth and individual greatness. Having 2 good players for every position does not translate to success, the team will be great, but the egos will prevent the squad from getting that extra something when the time comes. Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and ManCity are big examples of this. When only the stats on paper are analysed, they beat anyone by a mile. They have immense quality and backup in every position and that is why they are beasts in FIFA and FM (artificial math calculations that only count and compare numbers). However, they are always internally fighting and losing their heads in important matches. Their record and titles in the last 2-3 years and news of discontentment clearly shows that their lack of harmony and team spirit prevents them from achieving their ultimate goals. Overbuying is just as bad as not buying.

Fifth, You made very clear that Marin and Piazon are not worthy of being in our squad and/or that you would happily trade them Isco. That is understandable, although a lot will disagree with your choice, it comes down to personal opinion and not actual facts. Everyone has the right to believe in whatever player they think will succeed (just like Old Harry said, it is a game of opinions), I just think it is not the healthiest way of doing business. We have already invested quite some money into those two players and Isco would cost us more than what we would get from both of them, so it will be more money to spend. This can very well prevent some improvements in other areas (we are not in 04-05 anymore), Roman is not buying anyone at any price anymore and the transfers must be carefully studied to suit our needs. Can it pay off? Surely, but only time will tell, so you cant claim to have the right decision in this one.

At Last, I agree with the whole pointing of the need for better players (even for backup and diversity) and Isco fits that need. I also agree that we are a bit diluded with some of our expectations and we should not accept mediocrity. I don't think it would be a mistake buying him, but we must be aware of the consequences and changes that will have to be made.

All this debates about Isco remind me of one of my FM save. I bought Hamsik,Isco,and one more no 10 (I don't remember another one). It can easily works in FM because in FM you just need to get all the best player and put them together and they can work. In real life you have to consider a lot of stuff. Playing 3 am means you don't have width and you also have to consider their defending skill.

[Rmpr 8,977]

All this debates about Isco remind me of one of my FM save. I bought Hamsik,Isco,and one more no 10 (I don't remember another one). It can easily works in FM because in FM you just need to get all the best player and put them together and they can work. In real life you have to consider a lot of stuff. Playing 3 am means you don't have width and you also have to consider their defending skill.

That is the part I posted saying I would not dissect each one's position, it would be double the size.

EDIT: decided to add a sixth argument to talk a bit about position.

[DDA 9,924]

LOL

This is only part 1, I am planning a bigger text for the next part only to bore people to death!

I actually found it an interesting read and liked what you had to say bar the caring about Leif homo part. I just couldn't resist sorry mate

[communicate 2,703]

That is the part I posted saying I would not dissect each one's position, it would be double the size.

The one thing that I really hate about that post is when he said we don't want another AM only because we already have plenty.

Believe me if we can get Messi instead of isco, I will say I don't give a damn if we have 8 AM, get him

[Rmpr 8,977]

The one thing that I really hate about that post is when he said we don't want another AM only because we already have plenty.

Believe me if we can get Messi instead of isco, I will say I don't give a damn if we have 8 AM, get him

Yeah, but Messi is one of a kind, definetly not Isco.

[communicate 2,703]

Yeah, but Messi is one of a kind, definetly not Isco.

Lol ya, like I said in a post a few page back. The only reason that you should consider getting another player in packed position is when you can get a huge upgrade in that position.

Like what SAF did when he bought RVP, clearly he is a huge upgrade over welbeck even though in the long term this actually can benefit us because it hinder welbeck development. I thought welbeck partnership with rooney was outstanding last year

[kellzfresh 7,229]

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

Leif said it perfectly. We should get him or someone of his quality. We are not overloaded with AM's at all. Marin is...well, I think he confuses himself. At this club he'll never be anything more than a wide player. Get this guy in instead of Taison.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Stats can be a little misleading at times. I'm not going to wax lyrical about how great he is as I haven't seen enough of his games to make a full judgement. But I have seen his games in the UCL and he was by far the stand out performer, every match. From what I've seen, he reminds me of a hybrid between Messi and Iniesta. Fantastic dribbling ability and incredible control. I haven't seen him much in the league, but it seems he hasn't performed to the same level.

As I said, the stats you mentioned can be misleading. If I was to tell you another player in Spain averages only 1.4 key passes per game and is dispossessed 2.7 times per game (Isco 2.8 times), would you know who I'm talking about? Lionel Messi. If I was also to tell you another player averages only 1.8 key passes per game and is dispossessed 2 times per game, would you know who I'm talking about? Andres Iniesta. Don't get me wrong, I agree that his shooting can be wasteful, but his decision making will improve with age. I'm sure if Isco was playing with better players (No disrespect to Malaga's players), he would perform better. After all, Malaga's top goalscorer has only hit 5 goals this term, and after Messi there is a host of Barca players on 5 goals. It's easy to look at the assist count and say that the player isn't doing what he's supposed to be there for.

I honestly think all this talk of where he would play would be irrelevant if Guardiola and Isco were to come to Chelsea. If Pep were to use the same blueprint he used at Barca I wouldn't be surprised if Isco is used how Messi is at Barca.

I agree that stats can be misleading, but they do have some value. Yes, Iniesta and Messi only have slightly more key passes per game than Isco, but Iniesta has 11 assists and Messi has 27 goals and 6 assists. Isco has 4 goals and 1 assist. The problem I have with him statistically, is that he's not even close to being one of the better players on Malaga. Whoscored.com has him as their 9th best player. You say that Isco's stats are poor because of the team he plays on, well Joaquin plays on the same squad , also as an attacking midfielder and has been much better. (4 goals, 4 assists, 3.1 KP per game). Also, Malaga are in 4th in La Liga, they're hardly some crappy side.Now stats can be misleading, but not THAT misleading. In the Champions League, where we've seen him, he's been fantastic, but he's been quite mediocre domestically. Buying someone because they played very well over 4 games is not good enough for me. However, the biggest issue I have with this is twofold. One, we don't need to be buy anymore 20 year olds. We have plenty of youth on the club. We don't need to develop any more. We need players who can be ready to play at their top level the day we buy them. Second, we don't need a central attacking midfielder. Chelsea have spent 80M pounds+ in the last two years on players who play as a #10. We simply don'y need any more. Is Isco an upgrade over Mata, Hazard, or Oscar? No, he clearly isn't. So, what's the point? FFP means we have limited resources and money should be spent buying players at positions of need rather than getting a 4th central attacking midfielder.

[Superblue 6,372]

I agree that stats can be misleading, but they do have some value. Yes, Iniesta and Messi only have slightly more key passes per game than Isco, but Iniesta has 11 assists and Messi has 27 goals and 6 assists. Isco has 4 goals and 1 assist. The problem I have with him statistically, is that he's not even close to being one of the better players on Malaga. Whoscored.com has him as their 9th best player. You say that Isco's stats are poor because of the team he plays on, well Joaquin plays on the same squad , also as an attacking midfielder and has been much better. (4 goals, 4 assists, 3.1 KP per game). Also, Malaga are in 4th in La Liga, they're hardly some crappy side.Now stats can be misleading, but not THAT misleading. In the Champions League, where we've seen him, he's been fantastic, but he's been quite mediocre domestically. Buying someone because they played very well over 4 games is not good enough for me. However, the biggest issue I have with this is twofold. One, we don't need to be buy anymore 20 year olds. We have plenty of youth on the club. We don't need to develop any more. We need players who can be ready to play at their top level the day we buy them. Second, we don't need a central attacking midfielder. Chelsea have spent 80M pounds+ in the last two years on players who play as a #10. We simply don'y need any more. Is Isco an upgrade over Mata, Hazard, or Oscar? No, he clearly isn't. So, what's the point? FFP means we have limited resources and money should be spent buying players at positions of need rather than getting a 4th central attacking midfielder.

Going on that basis Toronto, how would you feel about Sneijder? I know his wages are absurd but lets say we could find an agreement (for example a similar wage packet to the outgoing Lampard), do you think he would be a better fit?

IMO he would at this moment be an upgrade as unlike Hazard and Oscar, he is much more polished (the finished product) and experienced. He would represent a player with tons of experience and trophies won but at 28 should still have a good 3-4 years playing at the top level.

If we could bring his wages down a little then to get a player seemingly on a free who is a £20-25m player and big name must surely be at least considered.