Demba Ba

[Badboy 1,526]

This is the Demba Ba thread and it's been more about Torres. Demba has been here half a season its unfair to let him go now !

[Tomo 21,685]

I'm in the Demba Ba thread discussing Demba Ba. I'm not discussing Torres

My bad, i saw Torres was the main topic of discussion even in this thread and thought u were joining in on that

[Christo191 173]

Hopefully, soon we won't be discussing him in the the Current squad, but in the Ex Blues!

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

This is the Demba Ba thread and it's been more about Torres. Demba has been here half a season its unfair to let him go now !

Didn't Jose buy players in the January window then sell them the following summer before? I think one of them was Maniche.

[Jase 43,479]

No mate, I'm not commenting what kind of player Torres is for Chelsea. I simply post that this with the massive price tag and wages is non valid point, because he already payed it off just because he is a Chelsea players. I can't deny that Fernando is not at his best, or even shit at this time with Chelsea.

Perhaps so. But continue to pay him 175k p/w wages every week is just a waste when he's not doing the job on the pitch that we come to expect of him.

But when we bought him he was the best centre forward in the world. No body back then even heard of Cavani's or Facao's! I dont think that cheap player like Ba did us more good on the field than Torres did. It's just mine opinion. Sorry if it's not popular.

Slightly disagree there. Torres was already on a decline when we bought him. His reputation, just like now, is what made people still rate him back then.

As for the Ba-Torres debate, will not get into again but all I'll say is had Ba scored those chances he has been getting, this wouldn't even be a debate right nowas there will only be one winner and it's definitely not someone from the Iberian peninsula...

[Christo191 173]

Ok we have to agree to disagree.

Perhaps so. But continue to pay him 175k p/w wages every week is just a waste when he's not doing the job on the pitch that we come to expect of him.

Slightly disagree there. Torres was already on a decline when we bought him. His reputation, just like now, is what made people still rate him back then.

As for the Ba-Torres debate, will not get into again but all I'll say is had Ba scored those chances he has been getting, this wouldn't even be a debate right nowas there will only be one winner and it's definitely not someone from the Iberian peninsula...

[robsblubot 3,262]

You just missed that Torres already has payed off his price tag, by "selling shirts" a couple of times. His shirt is one of the most selling in the world. This argument for the price of the players is unvallid. And getting ridiculous. If we didn't have the money, we just wont pay the price nor the wages!

Oh, And BA is SHIT!

I guess you did not get my post, because it has nothing to do with what you just wrote. BTW, I also don't think much of BA.

Boy he must have sold a lot of shirts...

[Christo191 173]

pfffffffffffffffffffff Alright BOYYY!

[Tomo 21,685]

Didn't Jose buy players in the January window then sell them the following summer before? I think one of them was Maniche.

Maniche was only a loan, Jarosik is one however.

[Christo191 173]

Infact he did, he "sold" alot of shirts and the club made hundreds of millions of proffit. Sorry to the staff for the Offtopics.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Where the hell are people plucking this Torres shirt sale figure from? Torres has not made CFC hundreds of millions of profit in shirt sales. That's nonsense.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Get someone from the reserves to back up the main striker till he returns. We don't need to waste wages and non HG spot on a 3rd choice striker who will rarely play. Barring injury, 2 strikers is perfectly fine.

Come on. We both know that's not going to happen. Do you really envision us using someone like Islam Feruz to be a back up striker if say Cavani was injured and we needed a game changer in a fixture against Arsenal, Man United, City etc? No. No manager is going to take such a gamble.

We've complained how thin our squad was this season, that in itself should be enough rationale to keep Ba.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

My point is that Torres is not exactly the first player we brought and kept where merchandise sales was an influence the decision even if (as with both Torres and Ballack) their performance did not justify the transfer and wages we paid them

It's a valid point. It's not a massive coincidence that our commercial revenue has taken an increase since Torres joined. Of course that's not the main factor, but it's a factor regardless. Doesn't matter how bad he is, his shirts sell.

Whether that justify him continuing on or not, is a different issue entirely.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Come on. We both know that's not going to happen. Do you really envision us using someone like Islam Feruz to be a back up striker if say Cavani was injured and we needed a game changer in a fixture against Arsenal, Man United, City etc? No. No manager is going to take such a gamble.

We've complained how thin our squad was this season, that in itself should be enough rationale to keep Ba.

You're looking at the worst case scenario. Your question previously was what if Lukaku was injured, and i replied, you can get Feruz/Bamford/whoever to come in and play a few minutes here and there. If it's the other way around, then Lukaku will start, with the reserve striker as backup. It's very unlikely we will have both first team strikers injured at the same time, but if it miraculously happens, you can put Hazard or Schurrle up front.

We don't need that 3rd striker. If Lukaku and the main striker go injury/suspension free, Ba will play ridiculously low minutes. Minutes that wouldn't warrant the wages he'd be on and the Non HG spot he'd be taking.

Also, this season just gone, we went from January till May with only Ba and Torres, and they were rotated pretty well. There would have been no talk of adding another striker if both actually did their jobs and put the ball in the net.

[Jase 43,479]

You're looking at the worst case scenario. Your question previously was what if Lukaku was injured, and i replied, you can get Feruz/Bamford/whoever to come in and play a few minutes here and there. If it's the other way around, then Lukaku will start, with the reserve striker as backup. It's very unlikely we will have both first team strikers injured at the same time, but if it miraculously happens, you can put Hazard or Schurrle up front.

And what's wrong with looking at the worst case scenario? It's about making sure that we are covered in every area of the team as much as possible with enough depth so that if something goes wrong, we have players that can come in and do the job. Regarding Lukaku, think most people right now are getting a little ahead of themselves IMO. Not denying that he has done very well at West Brom and got massive talent, ability and potential but people are acting like as if he's the real deal and a world class player already. He's by no means a finished article just yet and is still relatively inexperience at the highest level at this point. With that in mind, we do need someone that is decent as the 3rd choice who can come in and perform if like in this worst scenario, our first choice is out injured and we are left with Lukaku. Using a youth ST at this moment as the 3rd choice is just suicidal if things go wrong with the striker department.

We don't need that 3rd striker. If Lukaku and the main striker go injury/suspension free, Ba will play ridiculously low minutes. Minutes that wouldn't warrant the wages he'd be on and the Non HG spot he'd be taking.

Yes, we need that 3rd striker. We need as much squad depth as possible, one that is filled with quantity and quality. Ba probably won't play a lot but not as few minutes as you are making it out to be. With injuries/suspensions/rotation, someone like Ba will get his fair bit of game time and moreover, having 3 proper STs also give us room to maneuver and tweak around to play 2 STs upfront or even 3 if the situation calls for it. Barring his time at Madrid where he has a wide player scoring 50 goals a season, Mourinho has always keep at least 3 STs in his disposal, with Porto, us and Inter. It allows him to be flexible and change things when Plan A or B is not working for instance. Going into the season with just 2 proper STs and 1 makeshift, like you pointed out with playing Hazard or Schurrle above, is a no-no. No more filling square pegs in round holes after what happened in the 1st half of last season where we practically flogged Torres to death and played him in every game because of an injury to Sturridge.

It wouldn't be a waste keeping Ba, for another season at least, with the wages that he's on because it's definitely way way lower than Torres especially when he provides us depth, experience and goals. All certainly much better than what Torres can give us. And no, Ba warrants the non-HG spot for the reasons mentioned and don't see any problem with that remaining the same especially when Lukaku doesn't take up one of those spots and we just released Ferreira and Benayoun.

Also, this season just gone, we went from January till May with only Ba and Torres, and they were rotated pretty well. There would have been no talk of adding another striker if both actually did their jobs and put the ball in the net.

We should be thankful really that neither of them got injured during those 5 months. Otherwise, we would have been screwed! And of course they rotated well. Ba can't play in the Europa League while Torres can. It was mostly an easy decision to make by just alternating for matches like what Benitez did.

[Sheva. 5,373]

On Lukaku, you're right, i hardly watched him at West brom and ignored most of the wanking over him because it reminded me of Sturridge at Bolton, and that didn't exactly turn out well for us. But he says he's coming back and will be given games so i'm assuming he will be 2nd choice.

Anyway you can't just have that 3rd striker sitting there and waiting for someone to get injured, not an experienced player like Ba who has admirers in the PL and Bundesliga. Also, if you're going to have more than 2 strikers, then one of them must be able to play in other positions making room for others - in case nobody gets injured.

At Man utd, they have Rooney, RVP, Chicarito and Welbeck. Chicarito is the only one who plays exclusively as striker. RVP and Rooney can play behind the striker and Welbeck gets a lot of his games on the wings.

At Man city they had Balo, Dzeko, Aguero and Tevez. But Tevez rarely even played as main striker, same as Balo.

So can this happen with Cavani, Lukaku and Ba? definitely not, none of them are that flexible like the aforementioned Manc players (Cavani plays wide for Uruguay, but never plays well) so in a scenario where there's no injury, your 3rd striker will hardly play. That's why teams have youth players to fill that hole, they will hardly complain with a few minutes here and there, and won't be getting 60k too.

[Badboy 1,526]

Didn't Jose buy players in the January window then sell them the following summer before? I think one of them was Maniche.

Yeah I think you're right there Sam he's certainly not afraid of making quick decisions but I just think having him around will be to our advantage.

[Jase 43,479]

On Lukaku, you're right, i hardly watched him at West brom and ignored most of the wanking over him because it reminded me of Sturridge at Bolton, and that didn't exactly turn out well for us. But he says he's coming back and will be given games so i'm assuming he will be 2nd choice.

Anyway you can't just have that 3rd striker sitting there and waiting for someone to get injured, not an experienced player like Ba who has admirers in the PL and Bundesliga. Also, if you're going to have more than 2 strikers, then one of them must be able to play in other positions making room for others - in case nobody gets injured.

At Man utd, they have Rooney, RVP, Chicarito and Welbeck. Chicarito is the only one who plays exclusively as striker. RVP and Rooney can play behind the striker and Welbeck gets a lot of his games on the wings.

At Man city they had Balo, Dzeko, Aguero and Tevez. But Tevez rarely even played as main striker, same as Balo.

So can this happen with Cavani, Lukaku and Ba? definitely not, none of them are that flexible like the aforementioned Manc players (Cavani plays wide for Uruguay, but never plays well) so in a scenario where there's no injury, your 3rd striker will hardly play. That's why teams have youth players to fill that hole, they will hardly complain with a few minutes here and there, and won't be getting 60k too.

Not saying Lukaku won't be the 2nd choice. It's just many have completely overreacted about Lukaku's performances at West Brom and thinking suddenly that he's world class already. As I said previously, he's got talent, potential and ability to succeed but he's still got lots to improve on and prove at the highest level still. Lukaku is still inexperience. But because of this ridiculous high evaluation of Lukaku, most people think having Cavani and Lukaku is enough when clearly that won't be enough. You need quality but also quantity, for a club that aims to challenge on all fronts.

And really, Ba will get his fair share of game time. You're making this situation worse than it even actually is. There will be rotations/suspensions/injuries and even lost of form of the STs. Mourinho will manage and work around with the STs and moreover, having 3 STs give him the option to tweak and try different options, as I said mentioned previously (feeling like a broken record now). We won't just be playing with 1 ST throughout the season. Mourinho will sometimes deploy 2 for a game or during it and may even use all 3 as he has done so in the past.

I agree that a strike force of Cavani, Lukaku and Ba isn't exactly versatile like the Manchester clubs but the key thing here is the depth. They have the quality but also numbers in abundance and we need to have that as well. When either of the Manchester clubs have a ST injured, they can replace him with another ST. If one is tired, they can rotate and rest them. If one is out form, they can replace him without any problem. You get the idea. Furthermore, in Mourinho's previous spell here, he had at least 3 STs in each season:

2004/05: Drogba, Gudjohnsen, Kezman

2005/06: Drogba, Gudjohnsen, Crespo

2006/07: Drogba, Shevchenko, Kalou

Even at Inter...

2008/09: Ibrahimovic, Balotelli, Adriano

2009/10: Milito, Eto'o, Balotelli

There's quality and more important quantity in there and even the supposed 3rd choice STs got a fair amount of game time throughout the season, scoring a few goals. Admittedly, Mourinho did play some of them out of position sometimes and despite the STs being played out of position, Jose was still able to ensure they perform as effectively as possible and do the necessary job if/when needed. Worth remembering that Ba was used out wide and also played behind Cisse numerous times at Newcastle.