Oscar

[xPetrCechx 13,546]

[warnie_666 1,081]

1. I thought you and TC would have a bit more common sense than to name the players that were only recently vital in Spain's Euro campaign, hence why I was talking about Thiago being the only 'best' player they didn't bring.

2. What on earth has past World Cup success got to do with the quality of teams at this very competition? I said Egypt and S.Korea arguably have better teams than this Mexico one at this tournament.

3. Second guessing for the win. Do you have close relations to these players? How do you know if they are motivated or not. Absolutely ridiculous assumptions.

1. I am not going to state all the top Spanish players. Any football fan would know that this spanish side is nothing compared to the actual spanish side.

2. What on earth makes you think Korea and Egypt have "arguably" better sides than Mexico. What do you base your argument on?

3. I am not second guessing. Its is easy to see what motivates players and what not. And it explains why high profile players and established players in most teams have failed to shine. If you have played sports on a competitive level you would know what I am saying.

[warnie_666 1,081]

1. If those players you mentioned didn't give a fuck about the Olympics they would have stayed at home and had themselves a nice little relaxing holiday before going on pre-season with their clubs, simple as that. No one forced them to participate and they had every right to decline the call-up but instead they chose to go because they wanted to.

2. And remind me again, where has anyone ever said that the Olympics are as prestigious as the Euros or the World Cup? Clearly it is not but to the players who decided to go it's a competition they really wanted to win and if some players underperformed it may well be because some of them are arrogant and condescending cunts, not because there's something wrong with the tournament itself.

The way I see it, European nations probably don't take the competition as seriously as others because it always clashes with the Euros but to everyone else (mainly South Americans and Asians) it's the only major tournament of the year and they want to put on their best performance. I didn't expect Spain to come up with such a strong squad because most of their best players already played at the Euros only a month before the Olympics but to my surprise they did include the likes of Alba, Mata, Martinez etc. in their team. I don't know, maybe taking part in the Euros could have been partly at fault for them underperforming, not because they didn't give a fuck but because they had very little rest between the the club season and London2012 with all those training camps, friendly matches and then of course playing in the Euros in between.

1. Its not in their hands. A Player simply cant say, oh its olympics Im not going. Its just stupid and will be crucified in the media. Its so obvious I am baffled you even raising that point. Your FA has got you in the side that represents your country in Olympics. Would you tell the FA Fuck it...I am goign on a holiday? may be you would going by your argument. but those players wouldnt.

2. Again its NOT the players who decide to go. Its not in their hands. Its their respective Nation's FA that decides. I never said there is something wrong with Olympics. Its something that people take for granted. And the calls for Beckham's inclusion make it quite apparent as to how seriously people take Soccer in Olympics.

3. Now you are talking sense and contradicting your earlier argument. Europeans dont take it seriously. But again when you say most of Spain's players played in Euros I am looking at Puyol, Casillas, Pique, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Pedro, etc missing from the Olympics. Point to me which are these "most players from Spain".

[Waterfall 893]

1. Nothing compared to the senior side, but it is nearly the best U23 side they could name considering the circumstances. So both of you are right.

2. Don't know about Egypt, but Korea outplayed Mexico for majority of the game, so it's definitely arguable that they have better side than Mexico

3. Not sure what you two are trying to say. Think it was pretty clear that everyone participating in the Olympics was motivated to do well. Spain was, Team GB was, and Brazil for sure was.. and the list goes on

[warnie_666 1,081]

This is probably the most stupid and delusional post I've ever read.

Stop making all these ridiculous assumptions and trying to express it like they are facts.

Go watch Mata's performance and his body language again and tell me he didn't give a fuck! What an insult to Mata! Show some respects.

It is NOT stupid. When I say players arent motivated that doesnt mean they stop running and shooting. It means they dont give it their best not because they do not want to but because they cant. It is psychological. It explains why smaller sides from division two beat top teams in FA CUP and CC.

Not making ridiculous assumptions. How about you explain me why established stars that play European football have failed to perform in Olympics.?

I dont have to watch anyone performance. And Mata is not the only player on the field running around with the ball.

[warnie_666 1,081]

3. Not sure what you two are trying to say. Think it was pretty clear that everyone participating in the Olympics was motivated to do well. Spain was, Team GB was, and Brazil for sure was.. and the list goes on

3. Its like saying everyone participating in CC are motivated to win it. Yes they are in it to win it. But motivation levels differ when you play Oldham Athletic away in CC and Manchester United Away in the league.Similarly, all teams in the Olympics are in it to win it but motivational levels differ

[Kieran. 6,317]

Both of you, shut the fuck up.

[Jype 6,398]

1. Its not in their hands. A Player simply cant say, oh its olympics Im not going. Its just stupid and will be crucified in the media. Its so obvious I am baffled you even raising that point. Your FA has got you in the side that represents your country in Olympics. Would you tell the FA Fuck it...I am goign on a holiday? may be you would going by your argument. but those players wouldnt.

2. Again its NOT the players who decide to go. Its not in their hands. Its their respective Nation's FA that decides. I never said there is something wrong with Olympics. Its something that people take for granted. And the calls for Beckham's inclusion make it quite apparent as to how seriously people take Soccer in Olympics.

3. Now you are talking sense and contradicting your earlier argument. Europeans dont take it seriously. But again when you say most of Spain's players played in Euros I am looking at Puyol, Casillas, Pique, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Pedro, etc missing from the Olympics. Point to me which are these "most players from Spain".

1. It is exactly in their own hands. Or are you seriously telling me that if Mata, Alba or Martinez had told the Spanish FA they're not interested in playing at the Olympics after an exhausting season with their clubs and then going to the Euros straight after that, they would have been crucified by the media? That's bullshit and everyone apart from you seems to understand it. Your point could be valid if a player who wasn't good enough to be called up for the Euros started bitching about not wanting to play in the Olympics after being denied the chance of taking part in the better competition, but that's not really the case here and every U23 player not good enough for the senior squad will work their ass off to play whatever games are available for them and try to impress enough to be called up to the seniors. An U23 player declining to go to a tournament could send out bad signals about the player's attitude and that could hurt his chances of ever making it to senior level but if he's already a regular with the big boys he really doesn't have anything left to prove and he can make up his mind on whether he wants to take part in the lesser competition or not. All the players mentioned above opted to go even though they didn't have to and no one could have blamed them had they stayed at home. They did the best they could but this time it simply wasn't enough. Their emotions during the matches clearly showed they wanted to win and if they didn't care, I'm sure they would have given the chance to someone else and let some other player fulfill their dreams.

2. You keep going on about Beckham and whatnot. For fuck's sake, that wasn't even a proper England national team but instead some plastic mixture of all UK and you don't even get proper international caps to your CV for playing there. If memory serves, the FA decided early on that for the sake of all English clubs, they don't call up any players who played in the Euros to keep them as fresh as possible for the new season looming ahead. You have to understand that Britain doesn't have that many world-class footballers these days and since most of them already played at the Euros or were injured, they had to opt for some second-rate players who had already retired from international football or are just not good enough to play in the real England team. Mind you, England had players like Henderson and Downing at the Euros so what did you expect from Team GB if they couldn't even call up shit players like that?

3. You do realize that the Olympics are mainly a U23 tournament and including the absolute best players of their whole nation is impossible with the limit of three over-aged players? From their U23 players they had the very best of the generation and from what I understand only Thiago Alcantara was missing, but that was only because he is injured and had to be replaced. By saying in my earlier post that most of Spain's best players already played at the Euros, I did mean exactly that bunch you mentioned. They could not include them in the Olympics because you can't honestly expect that the likes of Xavi, Iniesta etc. will play two major international competitions within a month when they already play a shitload of games every year with Barcelona / RM and they really need to have at least some time off from football between seasons. Some of the younger guys who were called up for the Euros (again the same players mentioned countless of times already) don't need as much rest as +30 year olds and apart from Alba they didn't even play that much, but again I emphazise the fact they didn't have to go but instead they wanted to.

I rest my case. No point going on about this (especially in Oscar's thread) when you simply can't be reasoned with.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Let's not be delusional here, that bunch would never have gone to the olympics after playing in the Euros and winning the whole thing. Our very own Juan Mata was one of their over-aged players and do you consider him to be shit?

Just looking at that Spain squad it was amazing they couldn't even qualify from their group but it's not because they didn't rate the competition and not bother giving their 100% performance on the pitch but rather because for some reason they just weren't good enough. Maybe they got cocky after their nation had won three of the last major international competitions at senior level and last year that same olympic squad won the U21 Euros or maybe it was something else. I don't know the reasons for their mediocre performances and honestly I don't really give a fuck but I'll just say this: if they didn't think the Olympics were a competition worthy of winning they wouldn't have sent out their best possible U23 squad. FFS they even had Jordi Alba in their team and he played every single minute of Euro2012 and had just signed for Barcelona, I'm sure going to pre-season with them would probably have been nice too but he chose the Olympics over that. Also, Mata had an exhausting season with Chelsea and a little rest would have done him good but he chose to go to the Olympics too. I could go on...

I never said Mata was shit, but Mata is not one of Spain's best players. He played five minutes in the Euros. You're arguing the same thing which makes no sense that the other chap is arguing. I never said I didn't know why Spain didn't bring their best players, only that they didn't. I know why they didn't. Because they just played the Euros and the Euros are a massive tournament and Olympic football is a minor event and everyone outside of South American countries, view it as such. It's not just this year, it's every Olympics. The previous Olympics the Dutch brought 2 over-age players, Kew Jaliens and Gerald Sibons. Belgium brought no over-age players, and Italy brought 1, Tomosso Rocchi. Ivory Coast brought no over-age players. No Drogba, no Ya Ya Toure. That's what countries do in the Olympics. It's a small, under-23 tournament where the South American countries go all out to win. I don't know why you people keep trying to pretend that this tournament is any good.

[sleazyB 58]

I know he hasn't even put on a Chelsea jersey yet, and I am getting too excited, too quickly for Oscar, but it is seriously hard not to. He makes it look so easy, and just oozes with class. I am more excited to see this guy tear it up in the league than I am of Hazard, and I am extremely optimistic of this fellar. We will see if he can continue playing the same way he has in London, and the best part is that if he doesn't integrate immediately to the EPL, he is only 20, and eventually will. There is nothing but upside with this kid.

[Land 331]

[Ramires7 32]

this is what i think...

http://footballformation.co.uk/team/created.php?f=48273

but i wished hazard would switch with mata

[Henrique 9,133]

It is NOT stupid. When I say players arent motivated that doesnt mean they stop running and shooting. It means they dont give it their best not because they do not want to but because they cant. It is psychological. It explains why smaller sides from division two beat top teams in FA CUP and CC.

Not making ridiculous assumptions. How about you explain me why established stars that play European football have failed to perform in Olympics.?

I dont have to watch anyone performance. And Mata is not the only player on the field running around with the ball.

Right. Oscar will play even better playing in PL, because he knows Brazil is way better than the rest in this tournament.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

Offloading Raul will help Oscar and Romeu get more games.

[Peace. 4,352]

I think it would be a mistake to play him in the double pivot.

First of all, the fact he drops deep with Brazil, when they have the ball passession, doesn't mean he could play in the double pivot. Just as the fact he sometimes drops deep to help the defense, neither does mean he has what it takes to play in a midfield-two. To my eyes, to say he will be good in the double pivot role, because of the facts mentionned above, amounts to say that David Luiz should be playing as a Defensive Midfielder ! This is a misconception. To be good in some area of the pitch, while playing there momentarily during a game, and, to play continuously in this same position while being good... Are two different things ! Indeed, when you leave your position during a game to play at another place, you do not have the same restraints. For instance, when you are a defender and make runs forward, he will look good because you will go unmarked, you will have space, etc...

Furthermore, to play Oscar that deep, would be to cast pearls before swine. The double-pivot role, whether you're the "defensive" player or the "offensive", is a role which is very restrictive for players (on a tactical level, i.e. they can't leave their position). And this role implies a significant amount of defensive duties. To my mind, it would be just wrong to restrain him with these defensive duties and to limit his playing area. When you have a player with a genuine and natural flair to build the game, why play him in an area and a position which will mute his main assets ?

And finally, I can't see him succeed in this position. In my opinion this is way to deep for him. I cannot see how you can convert an offensive midfielder, coming from the brazilian league, to a midfielder playing before the defenders in the Premier League. I neither don't think he has the physical, tactical and technical attributes to succeed in a role implying defensive tasks (the defensive tasks given to a man of the midfield two, of course).

I really don't see where this idea to play him this way comes. To my honest opinion, the position which would suit him the most - considering the other players we have and his own traits - would be in the middle of the park, sitting in front of two defensive-minded midfielders, and with the licence to roam all over the pitch.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

I think it would be a mistake to play him in the double pivot.

First of all, the fact he drops deep with Brazil, when they have the ball passession, doesn't mean he could play in the double pivot.

Some people do not get this though

[Tomo 21,681]

Mark Bright "he might have to go back to Brazil to sort his work permit" :doh:

[Marvin123 483]

just about to watch the meastro again,

im so impressed with this kid he potentially could be 'the best'