Rumoured Luke Shaw

[The Skipper 20,593]

@Peace., you make a very valid point but then again we can also look at the other side of the coin and say that buying Luke Shaw now for £10m (or whatever his fee will be) is also another big gamble. Shaw looks an outstanding prospect but anything can happen - look at Kakuta for example who looked to be head and shoulders above everyone in his age group.

My point is that right now we're pretty solid at the left back position with Cole staying for another year and Bertrand and PVA coming through alright - we shouldn't really prioritise signing Shaw as he could be as big of a gamble as us allowing Bertrand and PVA to fight it out as to who becomes our new starting left back.

Personally I think we should allow Luke to develop maybe for another year or two before seriously considering purchasing him. Maybe if he's still making strides in his development we could have a look at purchasing him next year if the price is reasonable and if he'll be worth it. Right now though I don't think he's anywhere near ready for CFC. If he comes now we'd practically ruin his career unless we let go of both Bertrand and PVA.

[Jype 6,398]

Now that Cole was given the new contract I don't see much sense in buying Shaw this summer, unless he were to be loaned back to Southampton for another season and then return in 2014 when Ash most likely leaves the club. That being said, I really rate this guy and would be over the moon if we were to sign him for a reasonable fee before our rivals step up the chase for his signature but I can't see a place for him in our squad for next season as Cole still plays most games and Bertrand is more than good enough to cover for him.

[Joker10 946]

I really have no problem buying Shaw to compete with Bertrand, and in the end of the day Chelsea deserves the best possible LB to succeed Cole. Whoever that may be, add PVA to the ring also he has showed enough promise to contend also.

Not sure why people are concluding that since Shaw looks better at age 17then those two at the same age or younger, then he will be the better
player. Shit if it was that simple then clubs wouldn't be spending millions on scouting. Young players progression is more complex then that, some players peak earlier and others are late bloomer. I can name hundreds of examples.

[Strike 6,965]

First of all, I have never said that we should not wait and see how Bertrand (or Van Aanholt) develops. Read back my previous post.

From what I understand of your comment, you are suggesting that we should wait and see how our two LB develop, and then, if they turn out to not be as good as we thought, maybe go for Luke Shaw. That what I was mentioning in my previous post : that's what we call putting your eggs in the same basket.

And you go on about the form that Ryan has last year. My answer is pretty simple. Do you remember when, back in the days, people didn't want us to sign Lukas Modric because we already had Josh McEachran ? Now tell me where Josh's at. Didn't we thought that we had a gem in Gaël Kakuta ? He wasn't able to fulfil his potential. Didn't we deemed Sam Hutchinson the next captain of this club ? He might hang up his boot because of his knee. Didn't we thought that we had a future great center-back in Jeffrey Bruma ? Didn't we thought we had the next big thing in Scott Sinclair ? Didn't we thought, at some point, that Micheal Mancienne will turn out to be a good player ? Et cetera...

Every fans tend to overrate the youngsters from their own team. That's normal. We tend to do it even more since we are desperate to finaly see a product of our academy playing for us. I am not saying that Bertrand is overrated, not at all. I am just saying that we shouldn't get carried on because of a few promising performances. Instead, we should get carried away only after a promising season and that's not the case at the moment.

Okay, let's take the time to assess Ryan and Patrick before going for Shaw. Fine. But what if they turn out to be not good enough for us ?! By that time, if Shaw keeps it up, plus the fact he is english, he could as well be worth £30m or even worse, he could sign for Manchester United (or another team). Brilliant. We will have to look to splash a lot of money to get an above average foreign player while we could have bought an english talent for less.

For the past years, we have built castles into the air with our youngsters, again and again and again. That has to stop. We should act before something happens not react after the occurrence. We have to anticipate things, not to wait for them.

I am not writing off neither Bertran nor Van Aanholt. I am not saying that we should outcast them to buy Shaw. Non, all I am saying is that we shouldn't lose out our chances to get a talent such as Luke Shaw because they COULD* be very good for us.

* Could which is used to indicate a possibility is the key word, here.

fair enough

we tend to underutilise our youngsters. if aforementioned players had been nurtured and given the chance, then maybe they'd have turned out good but given the climate of the club its understandable why they're not given a chance. hopefully the next manager will

edit- you seem awfully confident that Luke Shaw will turn out to be a great talent. that maybe so but if we do sign Shaw i believe we'll loan him back to Saints to develop. he needs regular gametime at the too level. something neither bertrand nor pva get.that'd be good deal imo as opposed to sign him and breed him straight away

[Beepu 1,714]

Would give bertrand and PVA a chance, shaw has looked quite good for a 17 year old but who knows maybe he peaks early.

[Blue Armour 4,168]

@Peace., you make a very valid point but then again we can also look at the other side of the coin and say that buying Luke Shaw now for £10m (or whatever his fee will be) is also another big gamble. Shaw looks an outstanding prospect but anything can happen - look at Kakuta for example who looked to be head and shoulders above everyone in his age group.

My point is that right now we're pretty solid at the left back position with Cole staying for another year and Bertrand and PVA coming through alright - we shouldn't really prioritise signing Shaw as he could be as big of a gamble as us allowing Bertrand and PVA to fight it out as to who becomes our new starting left back.

Personally I think we should allow Luke to develop maybe for another year or two before seriously considering purchasing him. Maybe if he's still making strides in his development we could have a look at purchasing him next year if the price is reasonable and if he'll be worth it. Right now though I don't think he's anywhere near ready for CFC. If he comes now we'd practically ruin his career unless we let go of both Bertrand and PVA.

Anything can happen, yes...but Kakuta is not the right comparison. Shaw is playing regularly against PL opposition and is proving capable. Kakuta was never trusted with that role neither with us, or for Fulham.

But I agree with with the rest of your post. Cole has signed a new contract, and with Ryan as a backup a new LB is NOT high priority at this stage.

That being said, Shaw could be a target for a number of other clubs and we might have to secure him as early as possible..especially for the season after the next one, when Cole might call it quits.

[Peace. 4,352]

@Peace., you make a very valid point but then again we can also look at the other side of the coin and say that buying Luke Shaw now for £10m (or whatever his fee will be) is also another big gamble. Shaw looks an outstanding prospect but anything can happen - look at Kakuta for example who looked to be head and shoulders above everyone in his age group.

My point is that right now we're pretty solid at the left back position with Cole staying for another year and Bertrand and PVA coming through alright - we shouldn't really prioritise signing Shaw as he could be as big of a gamble as us allowing Bertrand and PVA to fight it out as to who becomes our new starting left back.

Personally I think we should allow Luke to develop maybe for another year or two before seriously considering purchasing him. Maybe if he's still making strides in his development we could have a look at purchasing him next year if the price is reasonable and if he'll be worth it. Right now though I don't think he's anywhere near ready for CFC. If he comes now we'd practically ruin his career unless we let go of both Bertrand and PVA.

1°) Yeah, I am perfectly agree with you. Each and every youngster is a gamble. Some are a lesser gamble than others — but they are still a gamble. And your example about Kakuta is nailed on. And I'll go even further as you : he didn't look, but he was. Technically he does have a big potential. But he lacks some essential things to make it to the top level (things such as will/determination/etc..., for example). That's why there are a gamble ; spotting technical skills is "easy" (in a relative way, huh), but working out whether they have the mentality is harder.

2°) Back on Shaw/Bertrand/PvA. Yes, for the next year, as you say, we are pretty solid with the LB spot. Cole is not what he was, but he still is a very good asset. And, while Bertrand has yet to set the world on fire, he is a solid cover for Ashley. What I am trying to look at is not this summer, nor the next one ; no, I am trying to think what will be in three or four years. Right know, the most likely is us having Bertrand and PvA at that moment (I mean in 3/4 years — it's hard to predict it, but just let's assume that we will keep both PvA and Ryan for the debate's sake). At this very moment, to my mind, they are also gambles. It's a different thing to be very good in Netherland and to be very good in the Premier League for a club which has for aim to be the best in Europe. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that he won't be able to make the step (nor am I disprespecting the Eredivisie) -> that is a gamble. He is as much of a gamble than Bertrand. Indeed, the englishman didn't have played many many times here. He had some brilliant performances - some others not so good. So it's kinda hard to tell whether he'll make it or no -> gamble.

I am not gonna lie. I have only seen Luke Shaw play once, and it was against us. He seemed good, but I cannot work anything out of that. I am speaking of principles.

Now, let's take a look at the facts. At the age of 23, Ryan Bertrand has played 23 games in Premier League and have caused mixed feelings. Patrick Van Annholt, at the age of 22, has played 5 games in Premier League and didn't really make a big impression. Now, Luke Shaw, at the age of 17 (!), has played 17 games in Premier League and, according to some pundits and some members here, has impressed given his age and the fact it's his first professional season (from my understanding he already makes a decent Premier League player). I am not discussing about the hows and whys, just about the facts, about observations.

Like I've said, these three players are all gambles. Obviously, Luke Shaw is the bigger gamble considering he is way more younger, it's only his first season and that we will have to spend money to get him (we already own the other two). However, knowing the facts I have aforementioned, it is tempting to try and bet on the riskier gamble, no ? According to those facts, one can come to the conclusion that Shaw has more or less (I am stressing the "more or less") done as good as our two young LB, even though he is five years younger than them. That must be food for thoughts for our scouts (if they oversee Shaw, of course).

Bertrand and PvA are still young, but they do have not many years left to make it ! If next year Bertrand doesn't make it — for whatever reason — I strongly doubt that the board will consider him as Cole replacement. The same goes for PvA, even if he has a tad more time to make it than Ryan. Next summer, Shaw will have his second PL season under his belt (granted Southampton doesn't get relegated). He can turn out to be a one season wonder, but could confirm all the hypes as well. If that's the case, no doubt that it will be harder to get him from Southampton, his price tag will be bigger and this is likely that there will be teams like ManUnited and Arsenal around the corner to get him. Well, if either Ryan or Patrick has shown genuine promises by then, Shaw situation won't matter. But, if there are still doubts over their future... then we will "eat our balls" (as we say in French) because we didn't make our move quick enough !

I am agree that he is not a priority, not at all. We have to look at other types of players, such as central midfielders and strikers to name a few, before our LB spot. Even though, I strongly believe that we should grab our chance will have have it. At the moment he won't be that expensive (in a relative way), and we might be alone in the auction. That's our chance. Once teams like ManU and Arsenal will be after him, I doubt we will have the better position to get him, because even if allegedly he is a Chelsea fan, when it comes to the youth record, Arsenal and ManU are way ahead of us.

And, as I am a cautious person, I prefer to take too much precaution than not enough. I have two gambles at my club, and I have the possibility to make a sweety third. Statistically wise, the more gambles I make, the more chances to succeed I have, right ? Let's admit that his tag price would be of £15m (more or less as Oxlade-Chamberlaine). That looks like a lot for a gamble. Though, considering we had splashed £5m — which can go up to £10 with adds on — on a player who never played a professional game before, £15m for Shaw doesn't sound that much. And even if he flops at Chelsea, we will have some opportunities to recoup some money on him. He will still be fairly young, he will still be english and he will have had big hypes when he was younger -> I am pretty sure that a lot of clubs would be willing to give him a chance (Loserpool, I am looking at you).

So, unless these £15m prevent us of purchasing a much more needed player, then I don't see why we shouldn't go for him.

And we are taking PvA into consideration. Although, what are the odds that we will keep him ? As of today, I do not recall of a lot of players sent out on loan that we didn't eventually sell soon after. As far as my memory goes, only Terry and Bertrand have escaped the sale. The same cannot be said for Sturridge, Borini, Sinclair, Mancienne, Rajkovic, and umptheen of other players. At Chelsea, the loan seems to be the first step before the sale — even if it seems to change. Therefore, I wouldn't count to much on PvA.

Though, I want to make clear one thing. I am not advocating the fact that we should be buy him right here right now. I am not saying that we should buy him in particular. All I am doing here, is to try to explain why buying him would make sense, and why it is natural to consider to buy him.

Ouah, I am writing to much... I hope that I didn't lose myself and could get my point across ! (I think that I am repeating the same things again and again, too).

[Spike 12,049]

Cole is on the decline. Shaw is better than Bertrand already and I believe Bertie is a better wide midfielder/winger than FB. Should try to turn Bertie into an Moses type.

[SinineUltra 1,164]

Would be a luxury signing. We have Bertrand/PvA to battle it out after (and if) Cole leaves next year. I think we have more urgent positions and roles to fill in this team than go hunting for the next big talent with a stricter budget than before FFP kicked in.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

First sign manager who knows how to work with talents, then we will talk...

[Peace. 4,352]

fair enough

we tend to underutilise our youngsters. if aforementioned players had been nurtured and given the chance, then maybe they'd have turned out good but given the climate of the club its understandable why they're not given a chance. hopefully the next manager will

edit- you seem awfully confident that Luke Shaw will turn out to be a great talent. that maybe so but if we do sign Shaw i believe we'll loan him back to Saints to develop. he needs regular gametime at the too level. something neither bertrand nor pva get.that'd be good deal imo as opposed to sign him and breed him straight away

I don't know whether one could say I am awfully confident that Luke Shaw will turn out to be a great talent. However, I am awfully confident that at the moment, gambling on bertrand is as much risky as gambling upon Shaw, nay more.

Bertrand is already 23 years-old. Out of all his games under our shirt, he had some promising performances, some other bad, and the rest being average. Granted he didn't play that much, and was often played out of position. But still, what he has shown causes mixed feelings. He has yet to give us genuine promising indications on a constant basis ; I mean, not in the odd games. There is still a big question mark over his head.

I know that some players are early-bloomer while other are late-bloomer. Even though, he is already 23 ; and at this age, there's more odds that he won't make it than odds that he will make it.

And tonight he has once again failed to give us the answer.

On the other hand, Luke Shaw for is first season of professional football, and this at the age of 17, has a fortiori shown real signs of a futur very good players (not many players have had 18 appearances in the Premier League, 15 of them being as titular — that certainly means something).

I fashion Betrand being for Chelsea what players like Brown or O'Shea were for ManUnited, i.e. an utility player who is able to play in serveral positions, and who is pretty much capable to provide cover when a player is injured.

These facts being highlighted, I'd rather us to take the gamble on Shaw than another club.

[Leif 6,006]

He's been really good with his attacking today. Equally as good with his defending. MOTM so far.

[JDY 1,290]

Good performance. Gave away the penalty at the end, luckily Holt missed.

But if we sign anyone from Southampton it should be Schneiderlin first.

[Blue Gino 377]

Don't forget in terms of a left back signing, Chelsea own 50% rights to Ronan Afonso, part of the Deco deal.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqvuie_ronan_sport?start=219#.UTymkI69xCl

[Yeboii 1,844]

Don't forget in terms of a left back signing, Chelsea own 50% rights to Ronan Afonso, part of the Deco deal.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqvuie_ronan_sport?start=219#.UTymkI69xCl

We also had a part in Wallace after the Deco deal and we bought him

[Styles 9,790]

Don't forget in terms of a left back signing, Chelsea own 50% rights to Ronan Afonso, part of the Deco deal.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqvuie_ronan_sport?start=219#.UTymkI69xCl

Interesting. He looks like a good young player, great technique and pace. Those Brazilian pitches are woeful by the way.

I went looking for a quote and you're right, he said this himself sometime last year according to reports:

"For Deco coming to Fluminense, they needed three players who were based in the juniors," recalled Ronan. "They sent a scout to watch the championships and to choose three players - myself and two others (Wallace and Pernao)."With Deco arriving at the club, they sold 50% of my rights to the English club"

Will be interesting to see what happens at left-back long-term. Ashley's contract until 2014, PVA's contract until 2015 and Bertrand's until 2017.

[Milan 17,835]

[Mufassir08 2,400]

#Signlukeshaw