Eden Hazard

[DDA 9,691]

3 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

The thing is when you say decisive you pretty much just mean comparing goals and assists right ?

I don't look at just goals and assists or even chances created, take ons, etc. I don't just look at the output of a player but take into account how much he puts in.

Input vs output. How many times did he try to beat a player vs how many times did he beat a player. How many shots did he take vs how many goals did he score.

That's where the wastefullness in possession comes in. How does a player use the ball. How efficient is he with it. There's only so much possession a team can have, only so many shots a team can sustain. 

How much possession a team has and how many shots they can supply matters to the attacking players. The less quality and the more defensive system the team plays the less possession they have and the less shots they can supply. 

That has an effect on how many shots an attacking player can take and how much possession he has to waste.  

If Hazard moves to a bigger club i do feel he'd benefit from it.

You can't tell me that Hazard wouldn't have better numbers if he played in a more attacking system with more quality surrounding him with players like Suarez-Messi compared to what he has here with Morata-Pedro/Wilian/Bakayoko/Drinkwater  being his support.

Football is about goals. The more goals you score... the more chance you have of winning. An attacking players role is to achieve either scoring goals or assisting others. Eden, unfortunately possesses amazing dribbling ability but he isn't really a clinical finisher and it's not as if he can pass like Iniesta. He is effective because he is extremely mobile and can turn on a sixpence. The amount of times I have watched Eden run past half a dozen players to then either take too many touches, not pass or shoot and end up doing alot of nothing is beyond frustrstion.

[Thor 2,434]

Guess we should just get Salah back. Clearly because he scores goals, he is far better. 

[robsblubot 3,529]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

Guess we should just get Salah back. Clearly because he scores goals, he is far better. 

would 'yes' be the right answer? 

I know you are being sarcastic, but right now if we need a goal with 15min to go, and you need to pick between Salah and Hazard, I don't think that's an easy choice... from a purely stats and probabilities pov, you might want to stick with the player more likely to score. However, your lineup may already have plenty of goal scorers, so dribbling and movement might be preferable. Would be very good for that manager to have to deal with that dilemma though... only if a club could muster such a feat 

Honestly, Hazard is fair game... like he said himself, Messi is the best player in the last 15 years or so (after Diego).

Which makes the rest fair, and as far as I am concerned, fun game (and I did see the very end of Maradona's career - fully agree with Eden about messi).

Why do we keep comparing Hazard with the likes of Neymar like someone else asked? because it's fun! 

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

15 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

Neymar wouldn't be able to do what he does at PSG or did at Barcelona. Here you can't lose the ball as many times as he does. 

In the 16/17 CL season he was in the top 5 most wasteful performances 3 times. http://www.givemesport.com/1034576-neymar-recorded-an-embarrassing-champions-league-statistic-against-juventus

Lost possession 46 times, 41 times, 38 times. That's a lot.

Even this season comparing Hazard and Neymar.

Hazard:  in the PL: dispossessed 1.8, Unsuccesful touches 1.5 in the CL : dispossessed 1.5 Unsuccesful touches 2.8

Neymar: in Ligue 1: dispossessed 3.1, Unsuccesful touches 3.3 in the CL : dispossessed 3 Unsuccesful touches 5.8

Neymar loses the ball nearly double as much as Hazard does and Neymar plays in a weaker league. If Neymar came here he wouldn't have that luxury.

He wouldn't have as many opportunities to try things as he does at PSG or Barca and that would certainly effect his output. 

Here Hazard simply doesn't have the luxury of losing the ball 46 times in a game. 

 I don't believe i said we were an extremely poor team but you have to admit that for a topteam we sure have a lot of average and defensive players in our squad. 

Alonso, Moses,  Cahill, Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Zappa, Rudiger. All average players. Willian wouldn't be a starter for a top club. Fabregas and Pedro were considered surplus to requirements and sold by Barcelona and both are past their best. . 

Neither of them would be starting for a top team nowadays.

Morata was a super sub for Real but is struggling to be the main guy here.(jury's still out on him.) Our only real quality players are Courtois, Azpi, Christensen, Kante and Hazard. 1 gk, 2 cb's, 1 dm and 1 am/ss. 

1 attacking player, 4 defensive ones.

 Fabregas wouldn't be starting ahead of Veratti or Rabiot. Morata wouldn't start ahead of Cavani. The only players who have a chance of playing in that PSG team are the 5 players i mentioned above. 

No it's not lame, the quality of your team mates matters. How attacking or how defensive your team plays matters. There's a reason PSG bought Neymar AND Mbappe. 

"Brought them up a level" There's no doubt that their attack has been improved with the additions of Neymar and Mbappe but they've won the league 4 times in the last 5 without them. 

They were already a quality side before them.

"He can play poor and still score 2 goals" that's kinda ties in with what i was saying in the beginning of my post .The luxury Neymar has that Hazard doesn't.

Neymar can/could play like shit for PSG/Barca and his team would still be able to get him into good positions and still dominate the opposition. 

If Hazard has a poor game our attack is pretty much a dead stick and the chances of us dominating opponents, let alone actually creating dangerous chances for him to score are extremely unlikely. 

If Hazard isn't heavily involved in our attack then our attack just goes nowhere most of the time. There's a massive burden on Hazard to create openings and chances . He never had a Messi/Mbappe to share the burden.

Ofcourse Hazard has done it for us before but it's a lot more difficult to do when you don't have another quality partner to share the burden.

 Teams know Hazard is our focal point. A lot of times they'll  put multiple players on him and we don't have a Messi/ Mbappe to exploit that or force that level of attention unto themselves.

I agree he should be scoring more. While i agree that part of that is because of himself and his reluctance to shoot at times, i also think what i said above about not having a quality partner,being marked by multiple players, us playing with a lot of average and defensive players, playing in a defensive system plays a part in him not being able to reach the 20 goal mark here.

Also how many times do we actually push for more goals when we're up by a goal. How many times has Hazard been subbed 10-20 minutes before time for a more defensive approach to defend a 1-2 goal lead.

 

I honestly don't like Hazard in the false 9 role it makes it more difficult to get him on the ball and i don't think a false 9 goes with the way Conte likes to play.

Srry for the long post.

I still think Neymar if he were here would have better amount of goals and assists than Eden does, that is my main issue with Eden, great player etc key to the team but people keep talking about him like he has to leave to hit that next level, he has to score more goals to hit that next level, his team mates don't necessarily stop him scoring more goals because he does get into positions where your thinking go on shoot, just isnt being ruthless enough in situations where others would shoot without second guessing. Not only this season but the last 2 or so seasons, hes been excellent in a lot of things, chances created, dribbles per game etc but goals still an issue and for me will continue to be because I know how good he is, we all do, but again... needs to boost his goals. Both Mourinho and Conte have also said he can score more goals. Be surprised if Roberto Martinez hasn't said something similar.

Sure Neymar loses the ball more but he is that sort of player, he takes a huge amount of risks. not that Hazard doesn't but do you think people will really tend to give a shit if Neymar was losing the ball X amount of times a game despite constantly scoring and assisting every match? That gives him a bit of leeway. In the way we play, losing the ball in the final third due to trying to be overly ambitious wouldn't necessarily be a huge issue for me, too often will one of our attackers do the hard bit then play a sideways or backwards pass instead of trying something a bit more unorthodox or perhaps something that might seem less probable to come off. Even in our MF the same issue, get so far then go backwards. Not directly an issue with Eden but the team in general, sure maybe holds him back a little bit but don't think its like stopping him from hitting that next level. I still think more can come from all our attacking players. Regarding the whole domination thing, we do dominate a lot of our opponents for large periods of the game, it can't be said that we don't concede play sometimes and come under pressure but that happens, there is plenty moments where we have the opportunity to score a few goals more, if its late on Conte shuts up shop but hes an Italian isnt he? Also I'd rather see us win 1-0 than draw or lose trying to go for a 4-0 at the 75th minute and onward. 

Wouldn't say that Cesc and Pedro being sold from Barca makes them bad players, Ozil and Di Maria were sold at Real, Sanchez at Barca.... Salah, De Bruyne, Lukaku etc were sold from here and have gone on to make good careers as well.

But yeah fair enough, difference of opinions. 

 

6 hours ago, Thor said:

Guess we should just get Salah back. Clearly because he scores goals, he is far better. 

People would have Salah back here because hes better than Willian or Pedro. Probably mainly due to the fact he actually does something with the ball when he gets it. Hes not predictable.

 

3 hours ago, Robguima said:

would 'yes' be the right answer? 

I know you are being sarcastic, but right now if we need a goal with 15min to go, and you need to pick between Salah and Hazard, I don't think that's an easy choice... from a purely stats and probabilities pov, you might want to stick with the player more likely to score. However, your lineup may already have plenty of goal scorers, so dribbling and movement might be preferable. Would be very good for that manager to have to deal with that dilemma though... only if a club could muster such a feat 

Honestly, Hazard is fair game... like he said himself, Messi is the best player in the last 15 years or so (after Diego).

Which makes the rest fair, and as far as I am concerned, fun game (and I did see the very end of Maradona's career - fully agree with Eden about messi).

Why do we keep comparing Hazard with the likes of Neymar like someone else asked? because it's fun! 

We compare them because they both are world class players in their own right and play in the same position? (Unsure if sarcasm or not). 

[bluephoenix 1,126]

Chelsea will refuse any Manchester City bid for Eden Hazard - even if the Premier League leaders offer to break the world-record fee of £200m. -The daily telegraph  via SkySports transfer center.

[Special Juan 27,439]

Right now you couldn't blame him going there, a club with mass ambition just like Eden and that's exactly how it should be.

[manpe 10,861]

City are genuinely interested in him? Confirmed by reliable sources?

[Tomo 21,733]

On January 28, 2018 at 5:59 AM, DDA said:

Football is about goals. The more goals you score... the more chance you have of winning. An attacking players role is to achieve either scoring goals or assisting others. Eden, unfortunately possesses amazing dribbling ability but he isn't really a clinical finisher and it's not as if he can pass like Iniesta. He is effective because he is extremely mobile and can turn on a sixpence. The amount of times I have watched Eden run past half a dozen players to then either take too many touches, not pass or shoot and end up doing alot of nothing is beyond frustrstion.

If it was as straight forward as that then why aren't Lampard and Gerrard considered greater than Iniesta and Xavi?

Eden's way can achieve goals at times Neymar's and Bale's shoot on sight policy's won't, like when Eden releases the ball at a position they would have shot most likely off target and few moves later we score.And you are right that more goals equal more chances off winning, but equally losing the ball or having a bad touch  (which as @Belgiannutt has showed Neymar' does on average 3 times more a game than Eden) can lead to good attacks breaking down and alas less chances of scoring and ultimately winning.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

If it was as straight forward as that then why aren't Lampard and Gerrard considered greater than Iniesta and Xavi?

Eden's way can achieve goals at times Neymar's and Bale's shoot on sight policy's won't, like when Eden releases the ball at a position they would have shot most likely off target and few moves later we score.And you are right that more goals equal more chances off winning, but equally losing the ball or having a bad touch  (which as @Belgiannutt has showed Neymar' does on average 3 times more a game than Eden, can lead to good attacks breaking down and alas less chances of scoring and ultimately winning.

Because they didnt win a Euro or world cup.

 

If we are being really honest the mystique about that golden spanish generation really comes down to their play in those big 3 tournaments. There were clear flaws in their play on the club level during that period. The club success, along with international success, has just been able to pain them on the right side of history.

[Tomo 21,733]

2 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

Because they didnt win a Euro or world cup.

 

If we are being really honest the mystique about that golden spanish generation really comes down to their play in those big 3 tournaments. There were clear flaws in their play on the club level during that period. The club success, along with international success, has just been able to pain them on the right side of history.

The success was a lot down to them, they were truly unbelievable players.

[Magic Lamps 11,668]

22 hours ago, Tomo said:

The success was a lot down to them, they were truly unbelievable players.

Nah it was a lot of luck too. They  ousted us (Germany) twice at the narrowest of margins and we did not really have vintage teams, almost lost against an average Dutch side. I think because of that annoying tiki-taka they were greatly overvalued. Lampard and Gerrard did not win anything with the NT because England never gelled as a team. But individually and at club level, esp Lampard will be considered the greater player than Xavi or Iniesta and rightly so.

 

But back to Hazard. We must at any price make him sign this new contract. That will enable us to keep him for another year or two and then he is basically useless for real cos he will already be 28,29

[oldportblue 547]

Ozil just resigned for 350K/week, would think that Hazard would demand similar wages and I hope our club is not stupid enough to turn him down... Also, lots of rumors that Conte is gone in the summer, maybe Thibaut and Eden are waiting to see what the club does this summer, which managers and what players they bring in...

Like others have said on here, re-signing him is probably the most important task facing the club right now. I would even accept a crappy year with zero trophies if it meant Hazard re-signing, I would be happy...

[DYC. 7,542]

22 hours ago, Tomo said:

The success was a lot down to them, they were truly unbelievable players.

The subtleties of the game aren't appreciated by the masses.

[robsblubot 3,529]

Just watching the Watford game (yeah fuck me!) and thought Hazard had a poor first half. He looked lively and had an overall good game in the second half though, esp compared to his teammates, who did not show for the game.

That's a proper key player performance (reacted well to adversity) despite a horror team showing.

[Arlen Correa 161]

He should never play central again. Build the team around him, give him a free role like Messi in Barcelona.

[Cosmin 2,484]

3 hours ago, Robguima said:

He looked lively and had an overall good game in the second half though, esp compared to his teammates, who did not show for the game.

That's a proper key player performance (reacted well to adversity) despite a horror team showing.

There were a few moments in the second half when I felt like he's too good for this team. Objectively speaking, he might be wasting a lot of potential playing for us. 

[Special Juan 27,439]

He will be gone in the summer along with Courtois, no reason for him to stay here playing with the shite around him. Must be fucking demoralized looking around in that dressing room at some of the fucking utter wasters in this team.

[gdlk 272]

Lel Real want swap Hazard for Benzema... how stupid are they