David Luiz

[didierforever 7,349]

I know he hasnt been in great form of late but....

as u said, "he is not in a great form" and add to that the FACT (not a myth as some1 people like to call somethings) that these are the stats of PL2012-13, adds no good to luiz. our win % has probably been worst among any player in the squad compared to luiz this season.

[Barbara 15,149]

I completely disagree. I think you're completely underestimating the importance of mentality in sportsmen. Luiz is blessed with tremendous physical attributes - the kind that John Terry could only dream about. But JT has the mentality, will to win, bollocks, whatever you want to call it that has made him a great player. He's not going to beat players for pace, but he'll outfight them and he won't give up (although he's not perfect). Luiz needs to start showing that now, not 12 months down the line because he won't be here if that's the case.

I don't think you know Mourinho. The one thing Mourinho wants in a player is that he play for his teammates and not let them down. Cahill might not be as technically gifted as Luiz but I've never seen him bottle a challenge or give less than 100% for the shirt, for the club and for the fans in the stands.

Until he can be bothered to show up for the games against Cardiff and Newcastle which aren't as sexy as Barcelona and Man United but still cost the same for the blokes in the ground who support their team week-in and week-out, then he's not going to be in the team.

the yellow part: were you complaining about that last year when Terry was injured? Because I'll admit my memory fails, but Luiz was all that when we needed him to be. Or did I miss something? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being very serious. As far as I remember he was out safety net last season.

bold part: well, I'm not exactly what one would call modest when it comes to my knowledge about Mourinho. I've been following the man for nearly 10 years now because he's been training each and all of my teams in Europe and I won't pretend to have false modesty and say I 'guess' I know him or I know a bit of him. I know him a lot. He wants a more fixed and passive CB as the last in the line that will give him the safety, the solidness, the coverage and a more aggressive as the second in the line, that will recover possession faster and before. He has that combo with Terry and Luiz, but all he has with Cahill and Terry is textbook positioning and defending. Terry is nearly complete, but he's slow and while he makes up for it with his positioning and reading of the game, we'll continue to concede goals like the one against City time after time after time when the partnership is Cahill and Terry because they're a very slow pair and Cahill doesn't have half of Terry's vision or game reading. So whenever we play fast or decent strikers with that partnership we'll be exposed like that. Also Cahill plays everyone and their mother in the offside trap, he's terrible at that. If he plays opponents and can't catch up with them because he's slow, he's overloading Terry instead of helping him. We've seen in a few times this season, but Ivanovic, Cech and Terry made up for it many times. Are we going to rely on that at all matches? Trust me, Mourinho doesn't want that.

I refuse to comment on your suggestion that Luiz gives less than his 100% to the club, shirt, teammates or fans. We definitely disagree on that and that's the kind of discussion I don't like to have. I think he has concentration issues, he has problems that need to be fixed, that aren't small and shouldn't be overlooked, but I don't think he consciously just spare himself against minor sides.

[The only place to be 11,313]

the yellow part: were you complaining about that last year when Terry was injured? Because I'll admit my memory fails, but Luiz was all that when we needed him to be. Or did I miss something? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being very serious. As far as I remember he was out safety net last season.

I was still saying in the summer that any decent offers should be considered because I didn't think he had the right mentality. His recent performances seem to be supporting that notion.

I actually defended him when he was put into midfield because I thought he did a decent job considering he was a CB first and foremost.

bold part: well, I'm not exactly what one would call modest when it comes to my knowledge about Mourinho. I've been following the man for nearly 10 years now because he's been training each and all of my teams in Europe and I won't pretend to have false modesty and say I 'guess' I know him or I know a bit of him. I know him a lot. He wants a more fixed and passive CB as the last in the line that will give him the safety, the solidness, the coverage and a more aggressive as the second in the line, that will recover possession faster and before. He has that combo with Terry and Luiz, but all he has with Cahill and Terry is textbook positioning and defending. Terry is nearly complete, but he's slow and while he makes up for it with his positioning and reading of the game, we'll continue to concede goals like the one against City time after time after time when the partnership is Cahill and Terry because they're a very slow pair and Cahill doesn't have half of Terry's vision or game reading. So whenever we play fast or decent strikers with that partnership we'll be exposed like that. Also Cahill plays everyone and their mother in the offside trap, he's terrible at that. If he plays opponents and can't catch up with them because he's slow, he's overloading Terry instead of helping him. We've seen in a few times this season, but Ivanovic, Cech and Terry made up for it many times. Are we going to rely on that at all matches? Trust me, Mourinho doesn't want that.

Here you're talking about the physical and footballing attributes, when I commented on the mental side of the game. I like what Luiz can do, I like his pace, his power etc. So does Jose.

What I don't like is the attitude he displays at times, the relaxed, laid-back performances and brainfarts. We conceded against City not because of Cahill, but because of a very, very rare error from Cech.

Trust me, Mourinho wants men who play for one another and give 100%.

I refuse to comment on your suggestion that Luiz gives less than his 100% to the club, shirt, teammates or fans. We definitely disagree on that and that's the kind of discussion I don't like to have. I think he has concentration issues, he has problems that need to be fixed, that aren't small and shouldn't be overlooked, but I don't think he consciously just spare himself against minor sides.

Fine. We disagree on that but that seems to be the crux of the discussion.

BTW - there are no 'minor sides' in the Premier League. That seems to be David's view though.

[Barbara 15,149]

Here you're talking about the physical and footballing attributes, when I commented on the mental side of the game. I like what Luiz can do, I like his pace, his power etc. So does Jose.

What I don't like is the attitude he displays at times, the relaxed, laid-back performances and brainfarts. We conceded against City not because of Cahill, but because of a very, very rare error from Cech.

Trust me, Mourinho wants men who play for one another and give 100%.

Fine. We disagree on that but that seems to be the crux of the discussion.

BTW - there are no 'minor sides' in the Premier League. That seems to be David's view though.

What you said and what I said about the kind of players Mourinho wants don't exclude each other. That's where we disagree about Luiz, but as we agreed not to discuss it because I don't really like to discuss one's sportsmanship whoever they may be.

I agree on the minor sides thing. What I meant is that we see Luiz being sloppy - which I don't think it's a conscious decision - against weaker sides. I chose a bad combination of words, and you're right.

We also disagree about who to fault in the City's match. You may not be one of them, but had Luiz made that mistake, this thread wouldn't live to have so many posts blaming him and not Cech. As I said, @JDY saw it coming days before the match. Cahill allows that to happen whenever he plays a striker like Kun or a team like City. If you don't consider it a mistake, it has to be at least a limitation. But if you don't see any, well, it's your opinion, one you're entitled to have.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

as u said, "he is not in a great form" and add to that the FACT (not a myth as some1 people like to call somethings) that these are the stats of PL2012-13, adds no good to luiz. our win % has probably been worst among any player in the squad compared to luiz this season.

Lets just hope he gets better, because i dont think cahill can reach the height luiz can attain as a defender.

[Special Juan 27,104]

Barbara I appreciate your response and stand by what I think regarding Luiz right now. I really think he is a talented guy but one that leaves you in complete jaw dropping moments at the basics he get's wrong.

Your love for him is clouding your judgement IMO, so agree to disagree on this one.

Best wishes.

[Phil Driver 503]

Every goal is a defender's fault and Cahill could have held a better line with JT and played offside for the Aguero goal ,we also could have had more pressure on David Silva who found space to find the pass to Aguero,by the way these are world class players Cahill was defending against ,this mistake does not compare to the sloppy schoolboy mistakes that Luiz is making at the moment that are unacceptable and he needs to cut out .

[robsblubot 3,237]

The mental aspect of the game is extremely overvalued in England for whatever reason. Whatever, just don’t hold your breath until you win a trophy at international level or play good football because you really need technique for either.

As a Brazil supporter, I’m not worried at all about David’s progression. I reckon a move away from Chelsea would have been very good for him, especially to a more flamboyant team like Barcelona. I’d not say move away from England, because I think he’d do very well in other systems such as Arsenal's or even City's for example. IMO he made a career mistake by not forcing his move away when Barcelona offer came in. Not playing him will certainly force him out by Jan - pre world cup is a great time to force players out actually.

So, in 5-10 games we will see how things stand. He either starts or he will move on, and we will need to shop for another defender to start or perhaps move Ivanovic back to CB and buy another RB - he’s also a lot better than Cahill.

While I think David has been playing poorly this season, supporters and pundits have more of a problem with his style not his current form; his characteristics as a player hasn’t changed and will not change much. That’s actually what Chelsea bought for 25m, because he was exactly the same at Benfica. Not to mention that some of the criticism stems from the push to start the fantastic Gary Cahill.

The irony of it to me is that the style these same pundits and supporters want Chelsea to use does not match the type of players the club have been acquiring. David being just one of them. If you can’t see the trend there, oh well.

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

Aaaaaand they're back at it. Amazing.

Half the team will be dropped after that shambolic second half performance against Newcastle, not just Luiz. I hope Lampard and Cole are also dropped, along with Luiz and Hazard.

[Phil Driver 503]

We are not talking about International football ,we are talking about performances in England in the Premier league ,many players fail to adapt to English fooball which is by the way the top league in the world according to many and certainly in the top three . By the way I like Luiz as a midfileder but for some reason he is not considered and remember that is where the waiter used him .

[Barbara 15,149]

Barbara I appreciate your response and stand by what I think regarding Luiz right now. I really think he is a talented guy but one that leaves you in complete jaw dropping moments at the basics he get's wrong.

Your love for him is clouding your judgement IMO, so agree to disagree on this one.

Best wishes.

I guess we stand at the same position actually. He's in bad form, he has problems that aren't smaller and shouldn't be overlooked. I guess the part we disagreed is how many chances should he be given. Mourinho will give him plenty, I'm sure of it. Which is why I said others are also receiving chances not based in their performances, but in their potential.

I wrote a lot, and if you look back in all my posts here in the last two weeks you'll find me always saying the same: Luiz is a better CB, Cahill is in better form. In one of those posts (today's) I even said I'd play Cahill tomorrow (and every big game) and Luiz in the EPL given the kind of opponents we'll face until Arsenal until Luiz recovers his form.

Now guilty as charged where it comes to my love. Among all Brazilian players in the world, there's none I love more than David Luiz. None.

[Phil Driver 503]

Agree he could be brilliant in Spain ,English football may not be his gig it is very different and he will need to adapt if he wants to be a centre half here.

English football will not adapt for him and English club football is as succesful as anywhere in Europe,the small teams in England will not give you an easy time like in Spain ,they will give you a fight like at Newcastle ,that is what makes it the most watched in the world.

[robsblubot 3,237]

We are not talking about International football ,we are talking about performances in England in the Premier league ,many players fail to adapt to English fooball which is by the way the top league in the world according to many and certainly in the top three . By the way I like Luiz as a midfileder but for some reason he is not considered and remember that is where the waiter used him .

yes, because England is special...

How many English players start for Chelsea, City, United, or any other top side? Once you go to the bottom half of the table and Championship, then you see more starters, but there is a reason for that.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

Seems like everyone is overreacting to me. He's just in a bad run of form. And I don't know why he's getting so much shit for the Newcastle match, if anything he showed leadership by taking upon himself to try to create something when the midfield was failing so bad.<br /><br />Plus people and Jose keep preaching proactive football instead of reactive football and if that's the case then I don't see how Luiz doesn't make the team often, just gotta get through a rough patch and it'll be fine.<br /><br />Now people even claiming he needs to adapt to England lol. He was our best CB last year, and it wasn't even close. <br />

[robsblubot 3,237]

Seems like everyone is overreacting to me. He's just in a bad run of form. And I don't know why he's getting so much shit for the Newcastle match, if anything he showed leadership by taking upon himself to try to create something when the midfield was failing so bad.<br /><br />Plus people and Jose keep preaching proactive football instead of reactive football and if that's the case then I don't see how Luiz doesn't make the team often, just gotta get through a rough patch and it'll be fine.<br /><br />Now people even claiming he needs to adapt to England lol. He was our best CB last year, and it wasn't even close. <br />

agreed, but like I pointed out in the few posts above, his bad form isn't really the reason he gets so much criticism. It's more about style than form, at least that's what I think.

[Phil Driver 503]

He was so good at centre back he played in midfield a lot of the time ,where I thought he did very well .

[Barbara 15,149]

agreed, but like I pointed out in the few posts above, his bad form isn't really the reason he gets so much criticism. It's more about style than form, at least that's what I think.

the problem is the brainfarts that supposedly come with the style when one thing has nothing to do with the other imo. His pro-activeness and his aggressive has nothing to do with his sloppiness, but everything is put in the same package.

Also, it seems based on what English members post here that his style isn't appreciated in England - where they do a more basic and textbook defending. I think it's England's loss then. They should be teaching their young CBs in academies how to be more proactive.

When he doesn't compromise with his stupid mistakes, I don't see much said in this thread nor in the articles I read (from England) they don't criticize (and of course don't compliment either) his style when he's killing it. The criticism only comes when he makes the mistakes, and it's fair criticism imo, but then they include the style in the convo and that's where I think they're wrong. his style and his sloppiness are two different subjects.

[The Skipper 20,593]

There is always an overreaction when Luiz has a few bad games - always talk that he should be moved on, that he isn't "good enough" for English football...

Just can't wait till he gets into form and shuts up all of the doubters.