David Luiz

[The only place to be 11,313]

how many as necessary because you don't find a CB with his potential

He's 26.

We don't talk about players like Ramires and Mikel in terms of potential. Luiz should be approaching his prime and yet he's still prone to switching off and making boneheaded decisions. At what point do you stop expecting him to grow up and accept that he is who he is?

Maybe we should listen to the man himself when he says, I don’t need to prove anything. Everyone knows who David Luiz is

[Tomo 21,739]

He's 26.

We don't talk about players like Ramires and Mikel in terms of potential. Luiz should be approaching his prime and yet he's still prone to switching off and making boneheaded decisions. At what point do you stop expecting him to grow up and accept that he is who he is?

Maybe we should listen to the man himself when he says, I don’t need to prove anything. Everyone knows who David Luiz is

When Lucio was 27 he was getting his pants pulled down by Didier Drogba and Joe Cole in a CL quarter final, a few years on he was arguably the best defender in the world for a treble winning Inter team.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

How many of those games were in midfield?

Whilst I'm not going to get to hung up on whoscored and their ratings system, let's put his 7.03 rating into context.

Terry - 7.4 (this season)

Oscar - 7.24

Cahill - 7.06

Luiz - 6.5

Discussing these ratings is a little pointless at times, but even by that measure he's had a severe downturn in form and looks like being dropped for a second time in the space of a few weeks. And there are plenty of fans who are pissed off about that bottled challenge.

I just found it though. I think it was made before the newcastle game.

That midfield run he had, we won a lot of games with him there but no one likes him there so we've dumped it. He's had some bad games but i really want him to get back his last season form, it will be a massive bonus for us.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

I realy liked him because of his fighting spirit and commitment to Chelsea, it looks like he doesnt care anymore. If that is the case, he can leave...

[Mouri_Matic 560]

When Lucio was 27 he was getting his pants pulled down by Didier Drogba and Joe Cole in a CL quarter final, a few years on he was arguably the best defender in the world for a treble winning Inter team.

Yeah FOR ONE SEASON LOL then after that he gone shit again, is that what you want from Luiz too? Lucio was never a world class player, he was just a decent player who had an exceptional season, after Jose is gone he reversed back to his horrible form and now no one even know where he is anymore.

[Tomo 21,739]

Yeah FOR ONE SEASON LOL then after that he gone shit again, is that what you want from Luiz too? Lucio was never a world class player, he was just a decent player who had an exceptional season, after Jose is gone he reversed back to his horrible form and now no one even know where he is anymore.

He got better after that season and ended up with being one of the key elements to the treble winning season in 2010 for Inter, considering he was 33 after that season it is kind of understandable that he declined after.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

He got better after that season and ended up with being one of the key elements to the treble winning season in 2010 for Inter, considering he was 33 after that season it is kind of understandable that he declined from that season onwards.

Like I said he only had one good season for Inter and it was that 09-10 season, after Jose is gone he is horrible again and you just reminded yourself there, if he is the best at 33 years old are we gonna wait for Luiz to become 31-33 to be the best CB in the world? If that is what everyone here called potential then I would rather the club sell him for £40m and buy a Mangala who is younger and have more potential.

[JDY 1,290]

He got better after that season and ended up with being one of the key elements to the treble winning season in 2010 for Inter, considering he was 33 after that season it is kind of understandable that he declined from that season onwards.

Dante was a horror show at Gladbach to, at 29 he was one of the finest ball playing defenders around & led Bayern to the treble. Barzagli was terrible in Germany in his mid to late 20s. Exceptional at Juve in his 30s.

Defenders generally tend to peak later than other outfield positions. There's no problem saying Luiz still has potential to be 1 or 2 levels up from where he is at the moment.

[Barbara 15,149]

He's 26.

We don't talk about players like Ramires and Mikel in terms of potential. Luiz should be approaching his prime and yet he's still prone to switching off and making boneheaded decisions. At what point do you stop expecting him to grow up and accept that he is who he is?

Maybe we should listen to the man himself when he says, I don’t need to prove anything. Everyone knows who David Luiz is

his problem is mainly in the mentality. He has the tools, the skills, the intuition which are things that can't be taught. So giving him stability (in his play) and working his head is easily possible to do at 26. When I say potential I'm talking about stability. When we needed him the most last season he was there saving our arses while Ivanovic and Cahill were leaving all kind of messes behind them.

I believe he can mature and get passed his mistakes because while he's 26 he's young and I don't think any of his previous managers worked a lot on him about that. They just trusted him and overlooked his occasional messes. Mourinho isn't like that and he'll try to fully develop him.

As for the ratings, whoscored shouldn't be used for fuck, they're useless and I can't believe people even bother with that. But in the two matches prior to the Cardiff match Luiz was our best player in the pitch by the long mile. He also had other great matches before those two. And then he messed up and he's struggling and he isn't in form. But he will be given as many chances as needed, Mourinho is much more patient than fans - as he should. It's clear our philosophy will be based in a lot of pressing and there are few CBs (not even Terry btw) who can anticipate and intercept better than Luiz because of his bold and aggressive defending. Mourinho will wear out his attempts to give Luiz stability because if he can work past his instability issues, he'll be one of the key players in Mourinho's team and Mourinho knows it. That's why during summer transfer speculation he was shy to say say Mata would stay, but went out of his way to say Luiz weren't for sale and complimented him more than once.

If Mourinho fails (or better said, Luiz fails) he will look for a better player to replace Luiz. Cahill isn't and will never be the kind of player Mourinho needs or wants in the starting XI. Among all those terrible performances by Luiz you saw Mourinho complimenting Cahill only once - in the English NT.

[Tomo 21,739]

If Mourinho fails (or better said, Luiz fails) he will look for a better player to replace Luiz. Cahill isn't and will never be the kind of player Mourinho needs or wants in the starting XI. Among all those terrible performances by Luiz you saw Mourinho complimenting Cahill only once - in the English NT.

That's the nail on head. There's no denying Luiz is on poor form right now and would probably have seen a fair bit of bench time if an in form Alex was still around, but Cahill is just not good enough to be anything more than a decent squad player.

[Henrique 9,133]

This topic us full of pointeless posts. Now there ia this silly talk: he does not care anymore.

People used to say Luiz problem was that he liked to go forward, and sometimes he was way too ruthless, so he put himself in situation to get red cards.

Now that he is not doing that anymore people are saying he doesnt care anymore. Typical.

[The only place to be 11,313]

his problem is mainly in the mentality. He has the tools, the skills, the intuition which are things that can't be taught. So giving him stability (in his play) and working his head is easily possible to do at 26.

I completely disagree. I think you're completely underestimating the importance of mentality in sportsmen. Luiz is blessed with tremendous physical attributes - the kind that John Terry could only dream about. But JT has the mentality, will to win, bollocks, whatever you want to call it that has made him a great player. He's not going to beat players for pace, but he'll outfight them and he won't give up (although he's not perfect). Luiz needs to start showing that now, not 12 months down the line because he won't be here if that's the case.

If Mourinho fails (or better said, Luiz fails) he will look for a better player to replace Luiz. Cahill isn't and will never be the kind of player Mourinho needs or wants in the starting XI. Among all those terrible performances by Luiz you saw Mourinho complimenting Cahill only once - in the English NT.

I don't think you know Mourinho. The one thing Mourinho wants in a player is that he play for his teammates and not let them down. Cahill might not be as technically gifted as Luiz but I've never seen him bottle a challenge or give less than 100% for the shirt, for the club and for the fans in the stands.

Until he can be bothered to show up for the games against Cardiff and Newcastle which aren't as sexy as Barcelona and Man United but still cost the same for the blokes in the ground who support their team week-in and week-out, then he's not going to be in the team.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

This topic us full of pointeless posts. Now there ia this silly talk: he does not care anymore.

People used to say Luiz problem was that he liked to go forward, and sometimes he was way too ruthless, so he put himself in situation to get red cards.

Now that he is not doing that anymore people are saying he doesnt care anymore. Typical.

No it is called passion and commitment. It is just that most people including me is getting annoyed with his LAID BACK ATTITUDE recently as evidently against Cardiff and Newcastle then come his statement that everyone know who he is, if that isn't arrogance then I don't know what is. He looks like he is starting to get ahead of himself and believe he is better than he actually is.

[didierforever 7,349]

I know he hasnt been in great form of late but....

as u said, "he is not in a great form" and add to that the FACT (not a myth as some1 people like to call somethings) that these are the stats of PL2012-13, adds no good to luiz. our win % has probably been worst among any player in the squad compared to luiz this season.

[Barbara 15,149]

I completely disagree. I think you're completely underestimating the importance of mentality in sportsmen. Luiz is blessed with tremendous physical attributes - the kind that John Terry could only dream about. But JT has the mentality, will to win, bollocks, whatever you want to call it that has made him a great player. He's not going to beat players for pace, but he'll outfight them and he won't give up (although he's not perfect). Luiz needs to start showing that now, not 12 months down the line because he won't be here if that's the case.

I don't think you know Mourinho. The one thing Mourinho wants in a player is that he play for his teammates and not let them down. Cahill might not be as technically gifted as Luiz but I've never seen him bottle a challenge or give less than 100% for the shirt, for the club and for the fans in the stands.

Until he can be bothered to show up for the games against Cardiff and Newcastle which aren't as sexy as Barcelona and Man United but still cost the same for the blokes in the ground who support their team week-in and week-out, then he's not going to be in the team.

the yellow part: were you complaining about that last year when Terry was injured? Because I'll admit my memory fails, but Luiz was all that when we needed him to be. Or did I miss something? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being very serious. As far as I remember he was out safety net last season.

bold part: well, I'm not exactly what one would call modest when it comes to my knowledge about Mourinho. I've been following the man for nearly 10 years now because he's been training each and all of my teams in Europe and I won't pretend to have false modesty and say I 'guess' I know him or I know a bit of him. I know him a lot. He wants a more fixed and passive CB as the last in the line that will give him the safety, the solidness, the coverage and a more aggressive as the second in the line, that will recover possession faster and before. He has that combo with Terry and Luiz, but all he has with Cahill and Terry is textbook positioning and defending. Terry is nearly complete, but he's slow and while he makes up for it with his positioning and reading of the game, we'll continue to concede goals like the one against City time after time after time when the partnership is Cahill and Terry because they're a very slow pair and Cahill doesn't have half of Terry's vision or game reading. So whenever we play fast or decent strikers with that partnership we'll be exposed like that. Also Cahill plays everyone and their mother in the offside trap, he's terrible at that. If he plays opponents and can't catch up with them because he's slow, he's overloading Terry instead of helping him. We've seen in a few times this season, but Ivanovic, Cech and Terry made up for it many times. Are we going to rely on that at all matches? Trust me, Mourinho doesn't want that.

I refuse to comment on your suggestion that Luiz gives less than his 100% to the club, shirt, teammates or fans. We definitely disagree on that and that's the kind of discussion I don't like to have. I think he has concentration issues, he has problems that need to be fixed, that aren't small and shouldn't be overlooked, but I don't think he consciously just spare himself against minor sides.

[The only place to be 11,313]

the yellow part: were you complaining about that last year when Terry was injured? Because I'll admit my memory fails, but Luiz was all that when we needed him to be. Or did I miss something? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being very serious. As far as I remember he was out safety net last season.

I was still saying in the summer that any decent offers should be considered because I didn't think he had the right mentality. His recent performances seem to be supporting that notion.

I actually defended him when he was put into midfield because I thought he did a decent job considering he was a CB first and foremost.

bold part: well, I'm not exactly what one would call modest when it comes to my knowledge about Mourinho. I've been following the man for nearly 10 years now because he's been training each and all of my teams in Europe and I won't pretend to have false modesty and say I 'guess' I know him or I know a bit of him. I know him a lot. He wants a more fixed and passive CB as the last in the line that will give him the safety, the solidness, the coverage and a more aggressive as the second in the line, that will recover possession faster and before. He has that combo with Terry and Luiz, but all he has with Cahill and Terry is textbook positioning and defending. Terry is nearly complete, but he's slow and while he makes up for it with his positioning and reading of the game, we'll continue to concede goals like the one against City time after time after time when the partnership is Cahill and Terry because they're a very slow pair and Cahill doesn't have half of Terry's vision or game reading. So whenever we play fast or decent strikers with that partnership we'll be exposed like that. Also Cahill plays everyone and their mother in the offside trap, he's terrible at that. If he plays opponents and can't catch up with them because he's slow, he's overloading Terry instead of helping him. We've seen in a few times this season, but Ivanovic, Cech and Terry made up for it many times. Are we going to rely on that at all matches? Trust me, Mourinho doesn't want that.

Here you're talking about the physical and footballing attributes, when I commented on the mental side of the game. I like what Luiz can do, I like his pace, his power etc. So does Jose.

What I don't like is the attitude he displays at times, the relaxed, laid-back performances and brainfarts. We conceded against City not because of Cahill, but because of a very, very rare error from Cech.

Trust me, Mourinho wants men who play for one another and give 100%.

I refuse to comment on your suggestion that Luiz gives less than his 100% to the club, shirt, teammates or fans. We definitely disagree on that and that's the kind of discussion I don't like to have. I think he has concentration issues, he has problems that need to be fixed, that aren't small and shouldn't be overlooked, but I don't think he consciously just spare himself against minor sides.

Fine. We disagree on that but that seems to be the crux of the discussion.

BTW - there are no 'minor sides' in the Premier League. That seems to be David's view though.

[Barbara 15,149]

Here you're talking about the physical and footballing attributes, when I commented on the mental side of the game. I like what Luiz can do, I like his pace, his power etc. So does Jose.

What I don't like is the attitude he displays at times, the relaxed, laid-back performances and brainfarts. We conceded against City not because of Cahill, but because of a very, very rare error from Cech.

Trust me, Mourinho wants men who play for one another and give 100%.

Fine. We disagree on that but that seems to be the crux of the discussion.

BTW - there are no 'minor sides' in the Premier League. That seems to be David's view though.

What you said and what I said about the kind of players Mourinho wants don't exclude each other. That's where we disagree about Luiz, but as we agreed not to discuss it because I don't really like to discuss one's sportsmanship whoever they may be.

I agree on the minor sides thing. What I meant is that we see Luiz being sloppy - which I don't think it's a conscious decision - against weaker sides. I chose a bad combination of words, and you're right.

We also disagree about who to fault in the City's match. You may not be one of them, but had Luiz made that mistake, this thread wouldn't live to have so many posts blaming him and not Cech. As I said, @JDY saw it coming days before the match. Cahill allows that to happen whenever he plays a striker like Kun or a team like City. If you don't consider it a mistake, it has to be at least a limitation. But if you don't see any, well, it's your opinion, one you're entitled to have.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

as u said, "he is not in a great form" and add to that the FACT (not a myth as some1 people like to call somethings) that these are the stats of PL2012-13, adds no good to luiz. our win % has probably been worst among any player in the squad compared to luiz this season.

Lets just hope he gets better, because i dont think cahill can reach the height luiz can attain as a defender.