🇧🇷 David Luiz

[pachman40 357]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

[robsblubot 3,595]

deleted

my post was garbage compared to the one above.

[Reddish-Blue 2,503]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

Well said.

You should post more often

[Barbara 15,149]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

Dont avoid this thread anymore..

[pachman40 357]

Thanks guys... my post count is really low relative to the amount of time I spend lurking here. Every once in a while I'll get in the mood and throw a few posts out there, but for the most part I'm more of a behind the scenes kind of guy. I like reading, but I'll try to be less lazy and interact more.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

[Special Juan 28,141]

When people talk like you do, you make it sound like he's capable of turning water into vine.

He's been more than good enough for us. We bought him for who and what he is.

Water into vine? Yeah he must be good then.

I asked a question, how exactly do you come to the conclusion "When people talk like me" or is this your brain in balloon mode again?

[The only place to be 11,313]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood".

Why is 'right' decisions in quotations? Doesn't everyone want him to make the 'right' decisions rather than the 'wrong' decisions?

Isn't that what a 'defender' is supposed to do so that we have a better chance of 'winning' games?

He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout.

British CBs have come in various forms and it's fantastically simplistic to imply they're all ball-hoofing neanderthals. Bobby Moore was English, so is Rio Ferdinand and many others who were more than comfortable on the ball without compromising their defensive responsibilities.

And like fuck is it a copout to say a defenders first job is to defend. That's the first thing their teammates want from them, it's the first ting the coach wants from them and it's the first thing the supporters want from them.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens.

Bullshit.

I didn't see glee in the eyes of supporters when he allowed Cardiff to score their goal. I saw resignation in the eyes of supporters, and no-one looked at all surprised.

. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that!

Now we're just being silly.

I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies".

The pairing that has been solid and keeping clean-sheets in the last few games that provides a stable platform for the likes of Hazard to show their world-class talent and give us a chance to win the title....

but David Luiz hasn't been playing as much...

". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

Don't apologise. It was quite good, if overly sentimental. You seem more concerned with how David Luiz does than how Chelsea do, but I get that. He's a fun personality with that crazy hair and the way he sticks his tongue out and gives a thumbs up. In some ways that's more important than winning matches....

Here's the thing though. He does make mistakes in defence and he has put in some fantastically lacklustre displays this season whilst also ducking out of challenges at Newcastle. That's why he's been dropped twice. We aren't driving him out. We're treating him like every other player in the squad and whilst Cahill might be 'mechanical' and 'boring', we have kept FIVE clean sheets in our last SIX games and the goal against Liverpool came from an Ivanovic mistake at a free-kick. We're looking better so I'm not entirely sure why there's fuss being made about Luiz.

In fact he's actually been rather good in his last few outings in midfield and was my MOTM against Hull. In that position we still get to see his skills on the pitch (and his sideshow Bob hair) without him being in the last line of defence.

[pachman40 357]

Why is 'right' decisions in quotations? Doesn't everyone want him to make the 'right' decisions rather than the 'wrong' decisions? Isn't that what a 'defender' is supposed to do so that we have a better chance of 'winning' games?

"Right" is in quotations because for some people on this forum there is only one correct decision when defending, one proper philosophy. Defend simply without complicating things and get the ball up to the midfield as soon as possible so they can start an attack. Yes that overly simplifies things, but the way people want David to play is overly simple as well.

British CBs have come in various forms and it's fantastically simplistic to imply they're all ball-hoofing neanderthals. Bobby Moore was English, so is Rio Ferdinand and many others who were more than comfortable on the ball without compromising their defensive responsibilities. And like fuck is it a copout to say a defenders first job is to defend. That's the first thing their teammates want from them, it's the first ting the coach wants from them and it's the first thing the supporters want from them.

I never implied that all British CB's are ball-hoofing neanderthals and you gave a couple of good examples of players who don't fit that traditional British style CB. However, the stereotypical style that British teams play include CB's who primarily sit back and play simple defence, move the ball forward to the mids/attackers and let them take care of the offence. This is not and never was the style that David Luiz plays. Fans, tv analysts, and the team are trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole.

Bullshit. I didn't see glee in the eyes of supporters when he allowed Cardiff to score their goal. I saw resignation in the eyes of supporters, and no-one looked at all surprised.

When Luiz makes mistakes like that, nobody is happy including David's fans. We are all resigned to the fact, and are not surprised that he makes mistakes, and we temper that with his creativity and what he adds to the build-up and offense in our team. But there is a faction that is ready to pounce and throw him under the bus at the earliest opportunity while ignoring the positive plays he's made. There is a certain fervour that analysts have when drawing attention to David's mistakes while downplaying or ignoring others who make similar or worse decisions. When somebody makes a mistake that directly results in a goal, it is no different in reality to when somebody makes a mistake that avoids worse consequences. Gary/JT have played great these last few games, but they've also made mistakes which fortunately weren't punished with a goal. Does that mean they defended better? Statistically its black and white, but its not always the case.

Now we're just being silly.

There's no denying that somebody is consciously changing David's style. Somebody is telling him to play less risky, don't make those constant runs upfield, stay in line. When he arrived, people thought the guy was nuts, he was so unorthodox, and that was what made him the player Chelsea coveted and spent big money to buy. He may still be that player inside and may end up playing like that under different management or in a different team, but for now he's doing what's asked of him including playing out of position. The way he plays now, I think we can all agree he is not playing to his potential.

The pairing that has been solid and keeping clean-sheets in the last few games that provides a stable platform for the likes of Hazard to show their world-class talent and give us a chance to win the title.... but David Luiz hasn't been playing as much... :cry:

No denying the clean sheets and stability Gary/JT are recently providing and I give them credit. But I think we all remember the disaster they were before this recent run. Does anyone remember the runs of clean sheets David has been involved in? Do I need to dig those up? I absolutely want Chelsea to succeed, even at the expense of Luiz, and if that means we are fed a diet of boring defence balanced by individual brilliance up front resulting in 1-0 wins from now until the end of the season then that's fine with me. I've resigned myself to that style given that Mourinho's tactics are reflecting that right now. I'm a Chelsea fan ahead of a David Luiz fan.

Don't apologise. It was quite good, if overly sentimental. You seem more concerned with how David Luiz does than how Chelsea do, but I get that. He's a fun personality with that crazy hair and the way he sticks his tongue out and gives a thumbs up. In some ways that's more important than winning matches.... Here's the thing though. He does make mistakes in defence and he has put in some fantastically lacklustre displays this season whilst also ducking out of challenges at Newcastle. That's why he's been dropped twice. We aren't driving him out. We're treating him like every other player in the squad and whilst Cahill might be 'mechanical' and 'boring', we have kept FIVE clean sheets in our last SIX games and the goal against Liverpool came from an Ivanovic mistake at a free-kick. We're looking better so I'm not entirely sure why there's fuss being made about Luiz. In fact he's actually been rather good in his last few outings in midfield and was my MOTM against Hull. In that position we still get to see his skills on the pitch (and his sideshow Bob hair) without him being in the last line of defence.

I think somebody else here is oversimplifying and insulting me as a fan implying that I'm blinded by cool hair and tongues sticking out. I won't patronize you so there's no need to patronize me. I agree that his form this season as a CB is below what's expected of him, and I choose to take a different view of his play than you do. David Luiz is not playing well as a CB because David Luiz is not playing his natural style. He's been gradually adapting to a less and less risky and more defensive based game and you can see it in his eyes, he's not the same player as he was when he arrived. I'm not trying to place him up on a pedestal by knocking down Gary and JT. Its my opinion. I respect that you're giving him credit for his play in midfield and in honesty that probably suits him better under Mourinho's philosophy. My whole point of the previous post was to say that we are wasting him and when he leaves and flourishes somewhere else there will be some negative nellies here that will blame the board, the manager, the fans, the garbageman, the mailroom staff and say 'he should've been a Chelsea legend", but they are the same people currently riding on the anti-Luiz bandwagon.

[HD3D 1,038]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

Very well written but inaccurate on several aspects in my opinion. David Luiz with all his qualities and flaws is an amazing player. The problem that people here have with Luiz is not that he has flaws, because every player does. The problem here stirs from the fact that Chelsea today has a manager who has a scientific approach to football, which is compounded by a vision of discipline and rigor where each player is given very specific instructions as to what he must and must not do. Like Luiz, we also got this manager knowing fully well who he was and how he worked, and even before the season started, there were rumors that fan-favorites Mata and Luiz were seen with skepticism by the new management.

Because of this, us Chelsea fans who both love David AND feel optimistic about the new project, are faced with a dilemma: On one hand there is a system being built that simply does not tolerate the uncertainty brought by a player's "rushes of blood" that often times result in absolute brilliance capable of making us fans drop our jaws, and which, however, a lot of times also result in total disaster for the team, and on the other hand, like you said, it's a shame that we have no means of getting more out of this wonderful potential.

Most of Chelsea's fans who criticize Luiz for his failure to adapt and become more disciplined, actually do it because they know he will be gone soon unless he does, and they don't want that to happen.

Unfortunately, like you pointed out, even if Luiz was to become more "traditional", he simply wouldn't be himself anymore. So perhaps his best future lies outside our club... Unlike you though, I feel skeptic that he will find that freedom and tolerance that he requires to flourish as a player, in a club like Bayern or Barcelona. The distaste for players who regularly boycott the manager's instructions in the heat of the moment, is usually common in all world class managers. It's not just Mourinho.

[zolayes 14,489]

I watch him play for Brazil and he is highly disciplined ,, rarely driving forward .. I believe people are deceived by his off the field antics and don't give

him the credit for having a football brain .. Perhaps he is the Brazillian Denis Wise ??? I hope so

[robsblubot 3,595]

Very well written but inaccurate on several aspects in my opinion. David Luiz with all his qualities and flaws is an amazing player. The problem that people here have with Luiz is not that he has flaws, because every player does. The problem here stirs from the fact that Chelsea today has a manager who has a scientific approach to football, which is compounded by a vision of discipline and rigor where each player is given very specific instructions as to what he must and must not do. Like Luiz, we also got this manager knowing fully well who he was and how he worked, and even before the season started, there were rumors that fan-favorites Mata and Luiz were seen with skepticism by the new management.

Because of this, us Chelsea fans who both love David AND feel optimistic about the new project, are faced with a dilemma: On one hand there is a system being built that simply does not tolerate the uncertainty brought by a player's "rushes of blood" that often times result in absolute brilliance capable of making us fans drop our jaws, and which, however, a lot of times also result in total disaster for the team, and on the other hand, like you said, it's a shame that we have no means of getting more out of this wonderful potential.

Most of Chelsea's fans who criticize Luiz for his failure to adapt and become more disciplined, actually do it because they know he will be gone soon unless he does, and they don't want that to happen.

Unfortunately, like you pointed out, even if Luiz was to become more "traditional", he simply wouldn't be himself anymore. So perhaps his best future lies outside our club... Unlike you though, I feel skeptic that he will find that freedom and tolerance that he requires to flourish as a player, in a club like Bayern or Barcelona. The distaste for players who regularly boycott the manager's instructions in the heat of the moment, is usually common in all world class managers. It's not just Mourinho.

the bolded part goes against all the evidence we've got, not to mention your own argument.

Forward runs and long balls have been either allowed/encouraged or he would've been yanked out midway through matches - perhaps even before. He lost his place when he made concentration and judgmental errors, not when he made forward runs or attempted long passes (in those instances he played the 90 mins) as he has always done. Or are you saying Jose Mourinho would leave a player on the pitch who completely ignores his instructions?! And how about every manager before him who had Luiz as a starter?

Concerning Barcelona, I think if they can play 5'11 Mascherano as a CB, Luiz will do just fine.

[Henrique 9,133]

Pachman40, pissing in Theonlyplacetobe's pints.

[Reddish-Blue 2,503]

@The only place to be,

I just don't get why you seem to hate Luiz so much

Cahill makes just as many mistakes as Luiz...yet for some reason, everyone loves him.

[pachman40 357]

Very well written but inaccurate on several aspects in my opinion. David Luiz with all his qualities and flaws is an amazing player. The problem that people here have with Luiz is not that he has flaws, because every player does. The problem here stirs from the fact that Chelsea today has a manager who has a scientific approach to football, which is compounded by a vision of discipline and rigor where each player is given very specific instructions as to what he must and must not do. Like Luiz, we also got this manager knowing fully well who he was and how he worked, and even before the season started, there were rumors that fan-favorites Mata and Luiz were seen with skepticism by the new management.

Because of this, us Chelsea fans who both love David AND feel optimistic about the new project, are faced with a dilemma: On one hand there is a system being built that simply does not tolerate the uncertainty brought by a player's "rushes of blood" that often times result in absolute brilliance capable of making us fans drop our jaws, and which, however, a lot of times also result in total disaster for the team, and on the other hand, like you said, it's a shame that we have no means of getting more out of this wonderful potential.

Most of Chelsea's fans who criticize Luiz for his failure to adapt and become more disciplined, actually do it because they know he will be gone soon unless he does, and they don't want that to happen.

Unfortunately, like you pointed out, even if Luiz was to become more "traditional", he simply wouldn't be himself anymore. So perhaps his best future lies outside our club... Unlike you though, I feel skeptic that he will find that freedom and tolerance that he requires to flourish as a player, in a club like Bayern or Barcelona. The distaste for players who regularly boycott the manager's instructions in the heat of the moment, is usually common in all world class managers. It's not just Mourinho.

Some fair points, everyone has their opinion and I won't dismiss yours. I have a hard time following your logic that Chelsea fan's criticize and nit-pick Luiz's mistakes simply out of fear of losing him and his wonderful potential. I tend to think they simply prefer a different style in their CB's, and that's why they criticize. I also disagree with you that his natural playing style would be stifled in teams like Bayern and Barcelona or wherever he ended up. When a team buys a player for the amount they will have to stump up to drag Luiz out of Chelsea, knowing all of his well documented characteristics, I would feel really confident that they would be willing to let him be who he is and simply smooth the edges a bit. They wouldn't be looking at dropping a load of cash into a project that's already reaching their prime playing years.

I agree that Mourinho's hiring and the system he was likely to implement was always going to challenge Luiz and the signs were there from the beginning. I was looking forward to seeing Mourinho and Luiz adapt to eachother, feeding off eachother's strengths, and it hasn't happened quite that way yet. Mind you, I haven't given up on that either. I believe Mourinho has changed mentalities over the years and there is a place for Luiz in his team. BUT I think Mourinho is a little gunshy right now and he's looking for solid results first and foremost while eventually transitioning into a more fluid style that would among other things suit Luiz better, but that's another discussion altogether.

[nofacej 132]

Most of Luiz's mistakes come from a lack of concentration, not because he likes to play out from the back.

Carvalho was one of Mourinho's favourites and he also liked to play the ball out from the back.

Luiz has more flair about him, but I don't see any reason why he can't cut the slack passes out of his game.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

@The only place to be,

I just don't get why you seem to hate Luiz so much

Cahill makes just as many mistakes as Luiz...yet for some reason, everyone loves him.

Nobody hates Luiz (I hope). He's a Chelsea a player and as such, we support him. However, he is an incredibly frustrating player for a lot of us because of his inability to simplify his game and his tendency to try to do way too much.

The difference between the way people treat Cahill and Luiz is analogous to the way a teacher would treat two different students. Cahill is the student who isn't particularly bright but tries hard and gets OK grades. He doesn't have the most ability but he's doing his best. Luiz is the student who has all the ability in the world but doesn't do his homework, skips class for a couple of weeks in a row. and sometimes put together an amazing paper and sometimes puts zero effort into it. It's not always just about results.It's also about maximizing ability.

[Barbara 15,149]

Nobody hates Luiz (I hope). He's a Chelsea a player and as such, we support him. However, he is an incredibly frustrating player for a lot of us because of his inability to simplify his game and his tendency to try to do way too much.

The difference between the way people treat Cahill and Luiz is analogous to the way a teacher would treat two different students. Cahill is the student who isn't particularly bright but tries hard and gets OK grades. He doesn't have the most ability but he's doing his best. Luiz is the student who has all the ability in the world but doesn't do his homework, skips class for a couple of weeks in a row. and sometimes put together an amazing paper and sometimes puts zero effort into it. It's not always just about results.It's also about maximizing ability.

there isn't one thing I agree with except that nobody hates Luiz. The analogy is very unfortunate imo in the Luiz side of the things. He loses focus/concentration and makes mistakes. It's quite simple. We've been discussing it for 200 pages. Whether he's able to fix it with or without Mourinho's help is the big question. Implying he doesn't 'do his homework, skips class and puts zero effort' is just plain unfair and awful imo. But we can agree to disagree.

[The only place to be 11,313]

"Right" is in quotations because for some people on this forum there is only one correct decision when defending, one proper philosophy. Defend simply without complicating things and get the ball up to the midfield as soon as possible so they can start an attack. Yes that overly simplifies things, but the way people want David to play is overly simple as well.

And football is a very simple game when all is said and done. It seems to be working well for us too doesn't it?

I never implied that all British CB's are ball-hoofing neanderthals and you gave a couple of good examples of players who don't fit that traditional British style CB. However, the stereotypical style that British teams play include CB's who primarily sit back and play simple defence, move the ball forward to the mids/attackers and let them take care of the offence. This is not and never was the style that David Luiz plays. Fans, tv analysts, and the team are trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole.

Exactly. David Luiz may well be a square peg for our round hole.

When Luiz makes mistakes like that, nobody is happy including David's fans. We are all resigned to the fact, and are not surprised that he makes mistakes, and we temper that with his creativity and what he adds to the build-up and offense in our team. But there is a faction that is ready to pounce and throw him under the bus at the earliest opportunity while ignoring the positive plays he's made. There is a certain fervour that analysts have when drawing attention to David's mistakes while downplaying or ignoring others who make similar or worse decisions. When somebody makes a mistake that directly results in a goal, it is no different in reality to when somebody makes a mistake that avoids worse consequences. Gary/JT have played great these last few games, but they've also made mistakes which fortunately weren't punished with a goal. Does that mean they defended better? Statistically its black and white, but its not always the case.

See, this is the mindset I don't understand. Are his long balls from the back and free-kicks so great (how many free-kicks has he scored from this season by the way) that we should all be 'resigned to the fact and not surprised that he makes mistakes'?

I'm just going to type that one more time because it is a fascinating thing to hear we should accept from a player.

We should be 'resigned to the fact and not surprised that he makes mistakes'. Tell you what, that should be printed on the tickets so that when a guy works his bollocks off all week to be able to afford to bring his son to a match he doesn't get all uppity when Luiz throws in a performance like the one against Cardiff. Clearly any disagreement we have over Luiz is because I'm not so ready to accept this.

There's no denying that somebody is consciously changing David's style. Somebody is telling him to play less risky, don't make those constant runs upfield, stay in line. When he arrived, people thought the guy was nuts, he was so unorthodox, and that was what made him the player Chelsea coveted and spent big money to buy. He may still be that player inside and may end up playing like that under different management or in a different team, but for now he's doing what's asked of him including playing out of position. The way he plays now, I think we can all agree he is not playing to his potential.

That somebody might be Jose Mourinho....a guy not renowned for resigning himself to accepting a player making mistakes. But I do agree that he isn't playing to his potential, which is where the frustration with him comes from. If he was a limited player then no-one would care, but it's the fact that he is ONE OF THE MOST PHYSICALLY AND TECHNICALLY GIFTED PLAYERS IN OUR SQUAD (oh look, I'm a real hater) that makes him so frustrating.

No denying the clean sheets and stability Gary/JT are recently providing and I give them credit. But I think we all remember the disaster they were before this recent run. Does anyone remember the runs of clean sheets David has been involved in? Do I need to dig those up? I absolutely want Chelsea to succeed, even at the expense of Luiz, and if that means we are fed a diet of boring defence balanced by individual brilliance up front resulting in 1-0 wins from now until the end of the season then that's fine with me. I've resigned myself to that style given that Mourinho's tactics are reflecting that right now. I'm a Chelsea fan ahead of a David Luiz fan.

Well don't sound too excited about it.

I think somebody else here is oversimplifying and insulting me as a fan implying that I'm blinded by cool hair and tongues sticking out. I won't patronize you so there's no need to patronize me. I agree that his form this season as a CB is below what's expected of him, and I choose to take a different view of his play than you do. David Luiz is not playing well as a CB because David Luiz is not playing his natural style. He's been gradually adapting to a less and less risky and more defensive based game and you can see it in his eyes, he's not the same player as he was when he arrived. I'm not trying to place him up on a pedestal by knocking down Gary and JT. Its my opinion. I respect that you're giving him credit for his play in midfield and in honesty that probably suits him better under Mourinho's philosophy. My whole point of the previous post was to say that we are wasting him and when he leaves and flourishes somewhere else there will be some negative nellies here that will blame the board, the manager, the fans, the garbageman, the mailroom staff and say 'he should've been a Chelsea legend", but they are the same people currently riding on the anti-Luiz bandwagon.

So we have a style that the coach wants, that seems to be successful and seems to be bringing out the best in players like Eden Hazard, John Terry, Willian and Oscar but it doesn't suit David Luiz? See this is where the 'couldn't give a fuck' side of me comes out. I feel no great affinity towards David Luiz. I find most of his off the field stuff juvenile, although he is great with the kids and his charity/community work is exemplary.

I also think if he went to Barca then he'd fit in perfectly. He'd add a new dimension to their game, probably score in double digits and be FIFA TOTY for the next 5 years.....but I'd also fancy our chances against him if we got them in Europe.

Here's the thing though - there is no anti-Luiz bandwagon. Anyone who has seen him play knows that he has EVERYTHING to be the best defender in the world. He's strong, he's fast, he's great with the ball, he can intercept better than almost any player in the league on his day, he can hit great passes....it's those top two inches that are suspect and unfortunately they are the most important thing in football. It's why we're talking about a guy who will be 27 in 3 months time in terms of what he COULD be. Are we still going to be doing that when he's 30? Potential?

@The only place to be,

I just don't get why you seem to hate Luiz so much

Cahill makes just as many mistakes as Luiz...yet for some reason, everyone loves him.

Don't hate Luiz. Think he has every tool to be the best defender in the world and gave him a lot of credit after the Liverpool and Hull games.

I watch him play for Brazil and he is highly disciplined ,, rarely driving forward .. I believe people are deceived by his off the field antics and don't give

him the credit for having a football brain .. Perhaps he is the Brazillian Denis Wise ??? I hope so

Wisey never gave less than 100% and never bottled challenges.