Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The combination of both being hypocrite - supporting Saudi Arabia's policies, arming religious groups for geo-political purposes, destabilizing regions under false pretense - and being too meek on our own hard won values during the slip stream of the Enlightenment let us far astray.

As Sir Karl Popper said in the Open Society and its enemies in 1949:

Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.

That said: our very dubious position with certain regimes (eg: FN weapon factories in Belgium provide a LOT of Saudi Weaponry that falls into the hands of extremists) and our mistreatment of the entire middle east region for our own advantage (see 1928 in which we openly supported the brotherhood of Islam for political reasons or even how we treat Salafist countries with oil) our misguided actions which make us look like fools when intervening in the middle east (eg. training and arming religious elements during the cold war) or even the joke that was the invasion of some of those countries (because of non existent weapons of mass destruction).

I don't see how the middle east can take us seriously as a possible partner against this extremism tbh. We are fucking up for a while now. Now we have a real enemy for every thing we (not our politicians) believed in.

No intervention based on geo-politics can cure this. It is exactly the disease. If we do not include even the parties involved (eg: the latest Syria convention doesn't even have ONE Syrian in it), if we do not listen to the non salafist or Sjiah muslims in this debate, or if we go into a full blown us aganst them mode - we are lost.

But whatever we do now.... tolerance cannot and should not be destroyed. Otherwise the open society as we know it, will be destroyed.

The principle to take out of all of this HAS to be that we're all in this together a species. Everyone on both sides has to realize that we're all very similar even in the situation and threats we face. It must be finally accepted that actions anywhere on earth will affect the whole planet and its population.

Foe any western country now to come into the middle east as 'savors' with their own agenda is a recipe for more disaster and suffering. If help is to be given, and it is direly needed, it needs to come as equal partners not as liberators, not as 'spreaders of enlightenment' or 'democracy' or any other euphemism that the middle east is so tired of.

[Peace. 4,352]

My mate Hassan just sent me this;

France occupied Algeria for 132 years. They killed 1 million Muslims in the first 7 years.

and 1 million 500 000 in the last seven years before they left.

French historian Jacques Gorky has estimated that the total killed by France in Algeria since its arrival in 1830 until 1962 is 10 million Muslims.

France occupied Tunisia for 75 years, Algeria 132 years, Morroco 44 years, Mauretania 60 years and Senegal 120 years.

And your mate Hassan's point is ?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

My mate Hassan just sent me this;

France occupied Algeria for 132 years. They killed 1 million Muslims in the first 7 years.

and 1 million 500 000 in the last seven years before they left.

French historian Jacques Gorky has estimated that the total killed by France in Algeria since its arrival in 1830 until 1962 is 10 million Muslims.

France occupied Tunisia for 75 years, Algeria 132 years, Morroco 44 years, Mauretania 60 years and Senegal 120 years.

Yes, but they did it in a civilized enlightened manner!

I'm sorry to say this, but one of the reasons that ISIS can find recruits in the middle east is because some people feel that the attacks like the one in Paris resonate with them, in a sick way they make them feel vindicated about all the atrocities committed by France and others in the region. I'm in now way defending that feeling, but unfortunately it does exist with some, and not just religious extremists.

The role of imperialism in the past couple of centuries as well as the forced globalization of western culture and values (and consumer habits of course! ) in fueling religious extremism cannot be understated.

[Fulham Broadway 16,404]

And your mate Hassan's point is ?

Seems to be a text doing the rounds

[Fulham Broadway 16,404]

Yes, but they did it in a civilized enlightened manner!

I'm sorry to say this, but one of the reasons that ISIS can find recruits in the middle east is because some people feel that the attacks like the one in Paris resonate with them, in a sick way they make them feel vindicated about all the atrocities committed by France and others in the region. I'm in now way defending that feeling, but unfortunately it does exist with some, and not just religious extremists.

The role of imperialism in the past couple of centuries as well as the forced globalization of western culture and values (and consumer habits of course! ) in fueling religious extremism cannot be understated.

True, its a shame the sins of the fathers are visited on their children. That 'resonance'you talk of is very palpable with some of the people I frequent with. I need to change my social circle .They are generally sane, but then also believe 9/11, 7/7 etc were false flag jobs

[CHOULO19 24,332]

True, its a shame the sins of the fathers are visited on their children. That 'resonance'you talk of is very palpable with some of the people I frequent with. I need to change my social circle .They are generally sane, but then also believe 9/11, 7/7 etc were false flag jobs

Conspiracy theories are rampant among people in the region here when it comes to politics and I think it's a mixture of a an inferiority complex towards the west and a feeling that their fates and the fates of their countries are always controlled and and sabotaged by western countries which to be perfectly honest is largely true a lot of the times.

To just give one example, I remember something from our history books about the civil war in (mount) Lebanon between 1840s and 1860s when the tensions were rising between Christians backed by France and Druze backed by the UK. Those are wars that killed something like a quarter of the population at the time. In reality the UK and France were more or less in agreement and were just using the religious divide because they realized that Lebanon was the weak point of the Ottoman empire and were planing to start taking it apart from there. In fact the sparks of some of the main battles (burning of a Maronite house, killing of a Druze boy) were actually done by French/UK spies to spark the conflict.

...at least that's what we're taught in school, who the fuck actually knows!

[Spike 12,049]

Some dude murdered his wife/parter/whatever at local college. Geez, university is a place of higher learning and higher murder rates in this country.

[Spike 12,049]

My mate Hassan just sent me this;

France occupied Algeria for 132 years. They killed 1 million Muslims in the first 7 years.

and 1 million 500 000 in the last seven years before they left.

French historian Jacques Gorky has estimated that the total killed by France in Algeria since its arrival in 1830 until 1962 is 10 million Muslims.

France occupied Tunisia for 75 years, Algeria 132 years, Morroco 44 years, Mauretania 60 years and Senegal 120 years.

Yes, but were they killed simply because they were Muslims or were they killed because they stood in the way of the French taking advantage of the nation's wealth and nature resources? Was it inspired purely by theological reasons or did the French see an opportunity to take advantage of a group of people that had less wealth, resources and weapons then them? I think throughout history leaders have used religion, race and culture as a means to justify taking advantage of the weak. The motivation isn't due to xenophobia but due to a lust for power and exertion of will over the weak. Relgion, race and culture is a just a smokescreen used by the powers that be to justify their lust for power to the hoi polloi. It is much easier for the masses to accept an 'us vs. them' agenda over simply 'let's kill these people and take their stuff so I can personally fill my coffers with blooded bars of gold'. Well, this is how I feel this is the reason events in the last 200 years or so have been perpetrated. Specifically colonialisation; not for and ideology but for a profit. A tragedy both ways but the motivations are very different.

Even the original Crusade wan't entirely motivated by a theological desire to control the Holy Lands. I've read that knights when not at war have nothing to do, soldiers without a casus belli to fight for tend to fight amongst themselves. Barons fight Earls, Counts fight Viscounts, et al. The Crusades were a clever reason to stop Europe's rowdy nobility from infighting and bandy them together against a common enemy, easing tensions in Europe. The Muslims of the Levant. Not to mention this was a nice way to introduce many treasures into Europe by robbing the Islamic nobility of the Levant. Hehe, there is always cash to be made.

[Fulham Broadway 16,404]

Yes, but were they killed simply because they were Muslims or were they killed because they stood in the way of the French taking advantage of the nation's wealth and nature resources? Was it inspired purely by theological reasons or did the French see an opportunity to take advantage of a group of people that had less wealth, resources and weapons then them? I think throughout history leaders have used religion, race and culture as a means to justify taking advantage of the weak. The motivation isn't due to xenophobia but due to a lust for power and exertion of will over the weak. Relgion, race and culture is a just a smokescreen used by the powers that be to justify their lust for power to the hoi polloi. It is much easier for the masses to accept an 'us vs. them' agenda over simply 'let's kill these people and take their stuff so I can personally fill my coffers with blooded bars of gold'. Well, this is how I feel this is the reason events in the last 200 years or so have been perpetrated. Specifically colonialisation; not for and ideology but for a profit. A tragedy both ways but the motivations are very different.

Even the original Crusade wan't entirely motivated by a theological desire to control the Holy Lands. I've read that knights when not at war have nothing to do, soldiers without a casus belli to fight for tend to fight amongst themselves. Barons fight Earls, Counts fight Viscounts, et al. The Crusades were a clever reason to stop Europe's rowdy nobility from infighting and bandy them together against a common enemy, easing tensions in Europe. The Muslims of the Levant. Not to mention this was a nice way to introduce many treasures into Europe by robbing the Islamic nobility of the Levant. Hehe, there is always cash to be made.

Yeah , unfortunately that 'cash to be made' comes with a heavy price. Initial blood and then subsequent'terrorism'. If Muslims are looking for resonance from colonolisation and being wiped out by colonial powers, I dont think they will stop and think it was only because of a wealth grab or whether it was theological. The justification of crusades and things like the British Empire was sewn with Social Darwinism. Latter day US troops refer to arabs as 'Sandniggers' for example,

I agree with you that material gain is the drive for most invasions, subterfuge, etc. If we check out Genie Oil for example, who are buying oil from ISIS. They have an interesting list of 'strategists and major share holders.

http://genieoilgas.com/about-us/strategic-advisory-board/

When you look at that list, Cheney for example the main architect beneficiary for Iraqs destruction, it becomes clear why certain very powerful interests, Gulf States included, want to keep ISIS hanging about. The real acid test though is the countries opposed to ISIS with a concerted effort, and all that hi tech firepower, could wipe out the whole organisation is less than 48 hours

The whole issue of 'realpolitik' has always been played out against a backdrop of self interest. We went into Iraq on the coat tails of American colonialism/self interest(outside the jurisdiction of that neutered organisation the UN). The UN is now nothing more than a talking shop -for the exact reason that the main players in the UN want it to be ! The G20 talks this week seem to happen outside the orbit of the UNs influence which is ridiculous.

[Changingman_2000 876]

I voted "YES" in the Scottish referendum. Although many, many years living in London before returning back to the People's Democratic Republic of Glasgow. Most, if not all of my friends are Londoners so the "YES" vote was absolutely not an 'anti-english' thing. I believe in self determination and, what should be, our destiny to go it alone.

That's the diplomatic version, above anything else, may I take this opportunity to put on record that I absofuckinglutely despise the Conservative Party. I would rather eat my own shit than give them a minute of my time. I would never, ever tire of slapping Cameron, Gideon, IDS, Hague, etc. Bunch of self serving wank stains of the highest order.

I gave up on Labour a long time ago, after Blair let the whole thing down, then Brown. In Scotland, in May, they got royally fucked off for their pampering to the Tories in the run up to the referendum vote. They are finished in Scotland. But, in Jeremy Corbyn, they have a chance to do something right, something good. He doesn't give a fuck, he don't sing the awful 'God Save The Queen' drivel as he don't believe in either God nor Royalty, so why the fuck should he sing it? That has obviously would up the Tory press, culminating with The Sun digging him out for 'not bowing enough' ffs, Aye, nae bother Murdoch. The Tax avoiding Mail and Telegraph jump on the band wagon.

Corbyn won't think twice about rocking the boat and I admire him for that. The british press are cunts, corrupt, snide cunts.

Power to the People (Right on)

[KevinAshburner 1,270]

website source : https://truthernews.wordpress.com/

CIA Plotting Chinese Missile Strike on Air Force One over South China Sea—Obama Assassination Designed to Spark Nuclear World War III Between US & China

https://truthernews.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/cia-plotting-chinese-missile-strike-on-air-force-one-when-obama-flies-over-south-china-sea-assassination-designed-to-spark-world-war-iii-between-us-china/

AUTHOR’S NOTE: Because I, David Chase Taylor, officially applied for political asylum in Switzerland on July 17, 2015, the state-sponsored terror plots and so-called “natural disasters” I expose rarely come to fruition. In short, theSwiss CIA does not want to afford me any more credibility or publicity than they have to, lest they turn me into a modern-day prophet. They also do not want to provide yet another open-and-shut case as to why I deserve political asylum. For those wondering why I would apply for political asylum in Switzerland, know this: a) I originally applied for asylum in Switzerland on March 8, 2011, roughly 2-years before I discovered that Switzerland was harboring the CIA; and the CIA has historically not shat where it eats in Switzerland. That being said, the CIA has now been exposed for the first time in history. Consequently, they are extremely desperate and may assassinate me Switzerland.

SHOCK: 10 Reasons Why the Paris Terror Attacks Were Executed by the CIA

ISIS ENDGAME: How & Why the CIA Created ISIS as Cover for Nuclear and Biological Terror Attacks

BREAKING NEWS: CERN Is Secret Entrance to Subterranean CIA Headquarters Located Beneath Lake Geneva in Switzerland

RED ALERT: 10 Reasons Why Switzerland is Home to the CIA

David Chase Taylor
November 19, 2015
Truther.org

[Emir 105]

Turkey have shot down a Russian war plane on the border of Syria after it was violating our airspace...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Turkey have shot down a Russian war plane on the border of Syria after it was violating our airspace...

Yeah, the rest of the region says: "Thanks a lot. That's really helping the situation...."

[kellzfresh 7,226]

Turkey have shot down a Russian war plane on the border of Syria after it was violating our airspace...

I heard the plane crashed in Syria.

Does this have anything to do with the fact that Russia bombed thousands of oil tankers in ISIS base some days ago??

From Putin's response, he says they've been stabbed at the back by terrorist associates.

Putin's response:

The loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists. I cant describe it in any other way.

Do they want to make Nato serve ISIS? ... We hope that the international community will find the strength to come together and fight against the common evil.

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

I heard the plane crashed in Syria.

Does this have anything to do with the fact that Russia bombed thousands of oil tankers in ISIS base some days ago??

From Putin's response, he says they've been stabbed at the back by terrorist associates.

Putin's response:

Rethorical question if you ask me. Of course that's the reason. They're ISIS sympathisants, they buy oil from them. By taking down that plane Turkey now helping ISIS achieve their goal - start the WW3. Russians won't back down, that's a declaration of war. When I first read the news I was praying that's not a Russian airplane, because they were saying "an aircraft of unknown origin". But that's a Russian aircraft indeed. And that is not good!

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,742]

Rethorical question if you ask me. Of course that's the reason. They're ISIS sympathisants, they buy oil from them. By taking down that plane Turkey now helping ISIS achieve their goal - start the WW3. Russians won't back down, that's a declaration of war. When I first read the news I was praying that's not a Russian airplane, because they were saying "an aircraft of unknown origin". But that's a Russian aircraft indeed. And that is not good!

Nobody is starting WWIII over Turkey

There will be posturing on both sides, and expect a Turkish Airliner to blow up sometime in 2016 mysteriously and that will be it.

[Emir 105]

Well i didnt vote for this ISIS lover cunt Erdogan so i don't feel guilty, i hate religious fascists. I'm an atheist myself. And i stand with Putin against ISIS.

[Fulham Broadway 16,404]

Dieudonne M'bala M'bala, the French comedian sentenced to two months imprisonment in Belgium. During his routine he said Jews are scoundrels and the holocaust a myth etc,. Pretty obnoxious stuff, and hes got previous for his anti-semitic stuff -but a prison sentence ?

If we are truly committed to ensuring everyone has the liberty to think and say whatever they please, then the jailing of Dieudonné should outrage us as much as the attempts to shut down Charlie Hebdo or the jailing of a Saudi blogger for ridiculing religious belief. Shouldnt we be saying ‘Je Suis Dieudonné’ ?

Dieudonné has been punished simply for thinking and saying certain things. This is thought-policing. It’s a PC, spat-and-polished version of the Inquisition, which was likewise in the business of raining punishment upon those who said things the authorities considered wicked.

All hate-speech laws should be scrapped. Dieudonné should be freed. And a continent whose governments argue against the imprisonment of bloggers in Saudi Arabia while jailing comedians at home needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror.