Politics & Stuff

[herzogian 148]

But its no coincidence that the media ownership has become more concentrated. Most countries media is owned by a handful of billionaires. Take a look at your best selling newspapers or tv shows. The majority of 'news' or articles are based on highlighting 'difference' between people. In fact they have gone one step further by playing on the 'we're all individuals' behaviour. True to a certain extent, but they want people to be atoms of consumption ...and then die.

I still believe in the Marxist analogy that there is a ruling class, what the trendies call the 1% if yiu like, propped up by a smug middle class - then a vast fucking swathe of working class people that dont see themselves as that -that the ruling class are terrified of.

I am not Marxist, but there was fantastic Italian marxist called Gramsci about the turn of the century (20th). He was imprisoned by the Italian state but wrote tons of stuff on how the media is an agent of the ruling state, how they rule using hegemony, and destroying class consciousness. Whatever you believe Gramscis writings (mostly writtenon bog paper and smuggled out of prison ! ) are well worth a read.

I know Gramsci's cultural hegemony-concept. He makes a good point of course:the rulling social classes influence the dominant cultural values, and also policymaking, no doubt about that. But I have two remarks about this, first of all you have to keep in mind that Gramsci wrote his work in a different 'era'. Class distinction was much broader then. Now, while there still obviously are distinctions, they are quite different. The middle class has become far bigger and far more diverse than they used to be. And it is mostly them that have this 'hegemonic' influence on cultural values. If you read papers like The Guardian you'll see that most writers are middle class, heck even most commenters are middle class and whether you want it or not that influences our perception.

My second remark, and I return to my first post directed against Ashburner, is that these are not really intentional processes. I'm nitpicking quite hard here but I really think this is important. People often seem to think that powerfull people come together to decide how they can fool and dominate us. This is far too simplistic. That is not how people and history work. These divisions have been in the works for a long time and have been institutionalised quite deeply, partly because a lot of todays institutions have been created in the 19th century and haven't been changed a lot.

Neverthless I agree with most of the things you say in your last post. Good shout bringing up Gramsci. Hope more people may decide to read his work, can't be bad. Now really have to work. Far too much coffee for me.

[lucio 5,399]

"The news is breaking...

So here we go, today marks the beginning of a formal, national, stakeholder consultation on lynx reintroduction. This morning we sent out hundreds of emails, documents outlining the consultation process, our plans for reintroduction and the lynx itself, and yet more documents digging deep into research from across Europe to understand how these cats could fit in here.

It's a huge pile of information (all of which will become available to all in the coming days), so that stakeholders can give us well informed feedback on how they feel about the plans. In about 6 weeks we'll start digging deeper into that and talking with stakeholders much more closely about concerns they have outlined or expressed.

Early in the new year, using all this feedback, we'll make our final trial release site selections and then spend another three months on local consultations around those areas, after that, all that's really left to do is provide all of the information amassed to Natural England and Scottish Natural Heritage and ask for permission to reintroduce the lynx.

This is going to be an exciting time, so please help spread the word, we really need everyone engaging with the process and letting us know what they think, and we want to make sure we've got all the right stakeholders involved and that everyone with a stake, feels like their opinion is being represented by the relevant organisation.

Share it around, this is our chance to bring back the lynx as early as next year, and keep an eye on www.lynxuk.org/consultation

to find links to some of that information mentioned above, it makes amazing reading!"

[Spike 12,049]

the USA Government are the ILLUMINATI Government and a country. USA government have brainwashed the whole USA and the whole World via television and social media (CODE NAME : AGENDA 21 and DEPOPULATION AGENDA) for black and white people to hate each other and stereotype each other so that they can divide and conquer the people so that the masses are easier to control, because if the people are not one with each other, they will fall together for not being one people who work together to take down the government.

Not so crazy. Maybe not the illuminati but they have passed some questionable legislation. The National Housing Act of 1934 essentially segregated blacks and whites, forcing blacks to stay in ghettos. People from certain areas were 'redlined' meaning that they were forbidden to take out bank loans and mortgages. What that meant was that black families couldn't move out of ghettos.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

herzogian, on 28 Oct 2015 - 12:15 PM, said: People often seem to think that powerfull people come together to decide how they can fool and dominate us.

Sorry to pick out just one sentence from an entire (pretty well written) post, but this part really raised my eyebrow. What do you call the TTP, TTIP and TISA, then?!

I think you think that when people say stuff like that they are imagining cartoon villains plotting to take over the world and then laughing an evil laugh while stroking their pet cat. Of course it's not that clear. There's no black and white good and evil. Heck, I'd even argue that the vast majority of criminals, including those running countries, in their heads rationalize all the awful things they do and believe that their actions are actually moral or at the very least that 'anyone else in their place would do the same'.

In reality it's really very simple. There are obviously exceptions and statistical anomalies, but generally, the rich and powerful will use their wealth and power to get more rich and powerful. And they'll do so either by occupying the most critical positions in any power system or by controlling the people who do occupy those positions. And there is a whole system designed just for that through lobbying, campaign donations...etc. or through 'connections'. Which only leaves the small matter of keeping the entire rest of the population conforming with the status quo as much as possible. And that is done from an entire system that starts in schools to university and to the most powerful tools: the media.

But you are right, it is a system and the current participants in the system, be it on the ruling side or the 'ruled' side, both think that what they do is only normal. But that does not mean that the powerful do not actively plan to deliberately lie and deceive people for their own gain. There are too many examples to name, but just to give the most obvious ones from recent history: Iraq and the WMD, the billions spent on 'research' and adds to deny global warming, the so called 'too big to fail' bullshit after the 08 crisis, the Charlie Hebdo march, the tribal provocations regarding the 'migrant crisis'......etc.

EDIT: As for the original point which was about systematic racism in the US. A quick look at the 4 centuries of blacks in the US and you can't but realize that at least some of the policies that leads to the systematic racism in the US are pretty much deliberate. Spike mentions a good couple of them above, but even the so called 'drug war' was intentionally meant to criminalize black lifestyles (in the US, it had different arguably more devastating aims in Latin America). The aim is to have black Americans doing free prison labor for large corporations and from the corporation's perspective it's even better than slavery because even their food is paid for by the state i.e. the average people's tax money.

[Fulham Broadway 16,404]

As an addition to Choulos post above. Just seen an excellent new documentary on the Black Panthers.

The ruling class hate it if theres any autonomous working class organisation. The FBI had a remit of surveillance, disruption, infiltration, police harassment and annihilation of the BPP.

Edgar Hoovers FBI didnt really up the anti with extra judicial executions until the Panthers started linking up with other disenfranchised groups, even redneck hillbillies -the one common demonitator being poverty and being oppressed.

[Spike 12,049]

I think people mix up the Black Panthers with the Nation of Islam a lot. I believe the latter was much more militant and aggressive.

[Fulham Broadway 16,404]

I know Gramsci's cultural hegemony-concept. He makes a good point of course:the rulling social classes influence the dominant cultural values, and also policymaking, no doubt about that. But I have two remarks about this, first of all you have to keep in mind that Gramsci wrote his work in a different 'era'. Class distinction was much broader then. Now, while there still obviously are distinctions, they are quite different. The middle class has become far bigger and far more diverse than they used to be. And it is mostly them that have this 'hegemonic' influence on cultural values. If you read papers like The Guardian you'll see that most writers are middle class, heck even most commenters are middle class and whether you want it or not that influences our perception.

My second remark, and I return to my first post directed against Ashburner, is that these are not really intentional processes. I'm nitpicking quite hard here but I really think this is important. People often seem to think that powerfull people come together to decide how they can fool and dominate us. This is far too simplistic. That is not how people and history work. These divisions have been in the works for a long time and have been institutionalised quite deeply, partly because a lot of todays institutions have been created in the 19th century and haven't been changed a lot.

Neverthless I agree with most of the things you say in your last post. Good shout bringing up Gramsci. Hope more people may decide to read his work, can't be bad. Now really have to work. Far too much coffee for me.

Glad youre another Gramsci afficianado A latter day comparable figure would perhaps be Chomsky, whom I am sure youre also familiar with. His 'Manufacturing Consent' is a good read on the matter.

Agree that class distinctions were much more clear in Gramscis day, but it could be argued that the class divides now are even more austere. Vast swathes of people in absolute poverty, and others earning in a year what a few spend on one bottle of wine. It can also be argued that there is a lot of false class consciousness thus creating the illusion and self delusion that people are 'middle class'. Commodity fetishism and a global over production of consumerbles has masked the fact that having 'stuff' does not make people middle class. We're still wage slaves

As for 'networks of powerful people ' controlling events and global matters -a resounding 'yes' to that one. And yes some have been around for centuries, such as Freemasons and they network, and make unaccountable decisions behind closed doors that affect us all. Most though arent hidden like Kevin Ashburners illuminati, or Blldeburg, but more often than not are a loose affiliation based on school ties or alumni. In the UK it is hard to find many influential people that didnt go to Oxbridge. be it on the front benches of parliament, the judicairy, heads of armed forces, culture, music, comedy , the BBC -the list is endless. There are the more formal groups G8, UN etc and as Choulo said one of the devastating agreements ever , TTP, a total undemocratic liason between the US and Europe. It allows corporations to sue govts amongst other things. It is getting to the point where big businesses are far more powerful than nation states -and look what theyve done to football

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The class divide today is probably more severe than it has been for at least a century, It's been getting devastatingly worse for the past 40 years in particular where the working goal has been to maximize short-term profit at the expense of....well everything, really!

[herzogian 148]

Sorry to pick out just one sentence from an entire (pretty well written) post, but this part really raised my eyebrow. What do you call the TTP, TTIP and TISA, then?!

I think you think that when people say stuff like that they are imagining cartoon villains plotting to take over the world and then laughing an evil laugh while stroking their pet cat. Of course it's not that clear. There's no black and white good and evil. Heck, I'd even argue that the vast majority of criminals, including those running countries, in their heads rationalize all the awful things they do and believe that their actions are actually moral or at the very least that 'anyone else in their place would do the same'.

In reality it's really very simple. There are obviously exceptions and statistical anomalies, but generally, the rich and powerful will use their wealth and power to get more rich and powerful. And they'll do so either by occupying the most critical positions in any power system or by controlling the people who do occupy those positions. And there is a whole system designed just for that through lobbying, campaign donations...etc. or through 'connections'. Which only leaves the small matter of keeping the entire rest of the population conforming with the status quo as much as possible. And that is done from an entire system that starts in schools to university and to the most powerful tools: the media.

But you are right, it is a system and the current participants in the system, be it on the ruling side or the 'ruled' side, both think that what they do is only normal. But that does not mean that the powerful do not actively plan to deliberately lie and deceive people for their own gain. There are too many examples to name, but just to give the most obvious ones from recent history: Iraq and the WMD, the billions spent on 'research' and adds to deny global warming, the so called 'too big to fail' bullshit after the 08 crisis, the Charlie Hebdo march, the tribal provocations regarding the 'migrant crisis'......etc.

EDIT: As for the original point which was about systematic racism in the US. A quick look at the 4 centuries of blacks in the US and you can't but realize that at least some of the policies that leads to the systematic racism in the US are pretty much deliberate. Spike mentions a good couple of them above, but even the so called 'drug war' was intentionally meant to criminalize black lifestyles (in the US, it had different arguably more devastating aims in Latin America). The aim is to have black Americans doing free prison labor for large corporations and from the corporation's perspective it's even better than slavery because even their food is paid for by the state i.e. the average people's tax money.

The TTP is atrocious. Mostly because it is portrayed as a positive free trade advancement while it's real aims and consequenses are kept secret from the public. Those agreements are pretty much decided above our heads and we don't get to have a say in this, thus it is a perfect example to counter my quote that raised your brows.

Yet I mostly reacted to popular conspiracy theories wherein our world throughout history is secretly ruled and held docile by a small powerfull group of people, an assertion which is far too simplistic and has absolutely no basis in reality whatsoever. I should have nuanced my post a bit more though, luckily you did that most adequatly in yours. So I pretty much agree with everything you say.

Though you raise two interesting examples, which maybe I don't know enough about. Charlie Hebdo, (are you perhaps referring to: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/aug/28/emmanuel-todd-the-french-thinker-who-wont-toe-the-charlie-hebdo-line) and the recent events regarding the migrant crisis. In what way are they an example of 'powerful people' trying to decieve the public?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The TTP is atrocious. Mostly because it is portrayed as a positive free trade advancement while it's real aims and consequenses are kept secret from the public. Those agreements are pretty much decided above our heads and we don't get to have a say in this, thus it is a perfect example to counter my quote that raised your brows.

Yet I mostly reacted to popular conspiracy theories wherein our world throughout history is secretly ruled and held docile by a small powerfull group of people, an assertion which is far too simplistic and has absolutely no basis in reality whatsoever. I should have nuanced my post a bit more though, luckily you did that most adequatly in yours. So I pretty much agree with everything you say.

Though you raise two interesting examples, which maybe I don't know enough about. Charlie Hebdo, (are you perhaps referring to: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/aug/28/emmanuel-todd-the-french-thinker-who-wont-toe-the-charlie-hebdo-line) and the recent events regarding the migrant crisis. In what way are they an example of 'powerful people' trying to decieve the public?

Charlie Hebdo I meant the march obviously, not the attack. The march was very obviously an intentional play to frighten people. It was a play on emotions after a tragedy to deceive people to thinking that the leaders in the march are protecting them and their rights when in fact it had some of the worst criminals and human rights abusers in the world. Someone actually made a pretty good list of all the hypocrites who attended but it's probably suffices just to mentioned that Saudi Arabia participated! Then you have the fact that this all happened in the country with arguably the worst freedom of speech record in western Europe (just this week a French court criminalized advocating for the BDS movement).

What came of all that? New "Anti-Terror" laws across Europe, from France to the UK to all of Europe. Basically, the powerful elite intimidated and took advantage of people's emotional reactions to strip them of more of their privacy and rights

As for the so called 'migrant crisis', I was talking about the reaction to it and the provocations and manipulation by politicians and the corporate media which have been nothing short of shockingly gross racism. We were talking earlier about racism in the US, but Europe is even more racist. As Noam Chomsky put it, it's easy to say I'm not a racist when everyone has blue eyes and blond hair. The racism that is just being spewed everywhere in Europe right now against all rationality causation and facts is disgusting. And it's being incited and encourage by very much mainstream politicians and the corporate media.

The aim? A society acting in tribal instincts that believes it is at war with 'the others'. And again this is very much intentional from politicians and reporters who know the actual numbers and scientific research, who know that migrants (or in this it is actually refugees but let's call them migrants so we don't have to give them their rights as refugees) will most likely improve the economy, will probably create more jobs in the long run and raise wages for everyone else. That's without mentioning the dire need in Europe for new citizens as the population of most of Europe is quickly falling.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

George Carlin about the wealthy and powerful deception and owning of the rest of the population:

[Spike 12,049]

This woman is the antithesis of everything that Australia stands for. This is our national anthem:

Take note of the part I have in bold. Pauline Hanson's hate campaign is indirect contradiction to the song that Australia has chosen to represent itself. She is building her campaign on the lowest dregs of the hoi polloi; this sensationalised hatred only begets irrationality and fear. The Muslim community already face an uphill battle not only due to 9/11 but due to incidents that occurred in the early and mid 00s in Sydney and Melbourne. The idiots of the Muslim and non-Muslim community only serve to perpetuate the hatred and fear through acts of violence, terrorism, slander and abuse.

I am absolutely disgusted with my fellow countrymen that side with Pauline Hanson.

For we are young and free; We've golden soil and wealth for toil; Our home is girt by sea; Our land abounds in nature's gifts Of beauty rich and rare; In history's page, let every stage Advance Australia Fair. In joyful strains then let us sing, Advance Australia Fair.

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross We'll toil with hearts and hands; To make this Commonwealth of ours Renowned of all the lands; For those who've come across the seas We've boundless plains to share; With courage let us all combine To Advance Australia Fair. In joyful strains then let us sing, Advance Australia Fair.

This so called manifesto is no different than the 'school killers' of America or Anders Breivik. Instead of guns to exert their will, she uses political campaigns.

• No More Mosques - Religious fascism and censorship.
• No More Sharia Law - There isn't any Sharia Law in Australia. If the individual chooses to live their life in such a manner without hurting another human than should be allowed.
• Halal Certification - This is actually the stupidest thing I've ever read. Not everything is going to be Halal by nature but a lot of things are Halal by nature. There is nothing wrong with certifying something as Halal so it can be sold to other nations and Muslims
• Muslim Refugees - Refusing an innocent in the need of help is the most deplorable thing imaginable.

[KevinAshburner 1,270]

this is for you on TalkChelsea that Live in Europe and Live in The European Union Countries.

The European Stage Is Set for Antichrist

http://www.raptureready.com/soap2/franklin3.html

By Alan Franklin

Europe is being prepared for a one continent government with one leader: Antichrist. The second most important prophetic development of the last century after the rebirth of Israel, came the creation of the European Union which in major ways already runs its 28 nation states as one country.

[Fulham Broadway 16,404]

Kev this needs to be in the Mourinho thread, you'll get half the people in there agreeing Jose is the Anti christ.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Yall see the video of the black boys jaywalking and the police violently attacking them? What the fucking hell..police in this country are fucking INSANE

[herpthederp 122]

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Hahahaha So Jeb Bush said that if you're a Christian in Lebanon you'll get beheaded! :lol:

I know the guy is only supposed to be a ceremonial figure and I fully expect him to be an idiot, but seriously, who is his middle east adviser?!

[herzogian 148]

Hahahaha So Jeb Bush said that if you're a Christian in Lebanon you'll get beheaded! :lol:

I know the guy is only supposed to be a ceremonial figure and I fully expect him to be an idiot, but seriously, who is his middle east adviser?!

The republican debates are great comedy central material, though the democrats with cyborg Clinton and a few non-figures aren't that much better. Pitty Sanders doesn't stand a chance.

On another note, don't want to be impolite but are you really Lebanese? (some people on here 'carry' flags just because they like their appearance) Cause I was wondering about the current situation there under Hezbollah and how the war in Syria and the migrant crisis are felt. Coverage about Lebanon has always been contradictory, though R.Fisk, who lives there too, manages to shed a more 'positive' light.